A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Age
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by Age »

PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
Age wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:18 am From what you wrote here it sounds like you have YET to come across an idea of 'God', which makes sense to you. Is this correct?
Not quite. It would be true for anything like monotheism, but 'God' may be used differently.
Besides not clearing up this up for me, could 'monotheism' be some thing like your One, or Unified?
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
This is very true and correct, in a sense. But, there a words like 'persons', 'selfs', et cetera, and so when ALL of these 'things' are identified and defined properly and correctly, then along with this comes the Knowing of Thy 'Self'.
I would prefer 'The Self' and not 'Thy'. It's not as if there's more than one.
This is perfectly fine with me.

Also, I use the word 'thy' in 'thyself' because it actually means, to me, Its (own) Self or One's Self, (like the phrase 'the Self' does) and unlike the words 'myself' and/or 'yourself' do NOT.

Also, when I talk about the One and ONLY Self I usually refer to It as thee Self, to reinforce that the 'the' is is 'thee' One and ONLY.
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
'Knowing Thyself' brings with it the FULL Knowing and Understanding of ALL these apparent "things", which human beings have put names to and labeled.
No argument from me.
PeteJ wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:48 am
The distinction breaks down in the end. A common analogy is waves on the surface of the ocean.
Maybe so. But analogies do NOT actually answer the questions I posed.
Hmm I thought it was a good answer.
But it is just an 'analogy', and not thee actual True and Right answer, correct?
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
Unity with God, or union with Reality, may be the EXACT SAME thing. But, recognizing and accepting, or KNOWING what Reality, or God, Truly IS in a UNIFIED manner with and by EVERY one, EQUALLY, would be a MORE joyous and happier occasion for EVERY one, correct?
But only you would know, so why would anyone else by joyous? .
How did you MISS the part when and where I said, 'in a UNIFIED manner with and by EVERY one'?

This means that if, and when, recognizing and accepting is UNIFIED among ALL, then EVERY one will be joyous, as One.

Although there is NO actual separate thing, there are appearances of separate and individual 'things' like separate and individual human beings or persons, correct?

If so, then these "other" human beings, or persons, would be some one "else", who is joyous.

Also, whenever I use the words "others" or any one "else", in reference to human beings, or people, in this forum, then I use the double air or double quotation marks to represent that these 'things' are NOT actual real 'things' but are just appearances.

This can be CLEARLY SEEN in my past writings, here, in this forum.
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
Well when a 'you' Knows 'God', FULLY and CORRECTLY, then what is recognized and realized is that God, Itself, is CERTAINY NOT the human being anthropomorphized, and gendered, word, nor concept, of a "he".
Quite so,

By the way knowing some thing, and then being that thing, can be two completely different things. Why do you speak as though these, so called, "mystics", and/or "mysticism", has, and already, KNOWS the answers?
Because this is the case.
But which ones of these human beings are real and actual "ones" that has and already KNOWS the answers?

Also, when you say they do, then do you mean that each one has and already KNOWS ALL the answers, or just some of the answers?
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
"mystics" and mysticism vanishes when the answers are already KNOWN. As there is NO more mystery.
I think you may be confusing the two meanings of 'mystical'. Mysticism is not the claim that Reality is a mystery.
So, when you use the word 'mysticism', then what do you actually mean?
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
When does one KNOW they already have the answers, some may ask?
If you have to ask then you don't know the answers. When you do you;ll spot the same knowledge in others
So, do you claim that 'you' ALREADY KNOW the answers?
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
Okay, but I do not want to follow this up. As I do not read books and because I already KNOW thee actual Truth behind this.
Okay. In this case let's finish here. Nice to chat.
But WHY would 'you' want to finish now?

Is there some thing that you do NOT want REVEALED?
PeteJ
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by PeteJ »

Age wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:02 pmBesides not clearing up this up for me, could 'monotheism' be some thing like your One, or Unified?
It might be seen as 'something like' it, but it's very different.
But it is just an 'analogy', and not thee actual True and Right answer, correct?
If you consider the relationship between waves an oceans you'll have got the idea. Or you could use sparks and a fire.
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pmHow did you MISS the part when and where I said, 'in a UNIFIED manner with and by EVERY one'?

This means that if, and when, recognizing and accepting is UNIFIED among ALL, then EVERY one will be joyous, as One.
Yes. Those who know say that God is joy. or this would be one way of putting it. They say that the joy you feel in daily life is the presence of this source.
But which ones of these human beings are real and actual "ones" that has and already KNOWS the answers?
It is not possible to know this until you know quite a lot of what they know.
So, when you use the word 'mysticism', then what do you actually mean?
I mean the Perennial philosophy, the Yoga of Patanjali, the doctrine of the Upanishads. Other terms include advaita, non-dualism, self-enquiry and suchlike. The standard definition.
So, do you claim that 'you' ALREADY KNOW the answers?
Some of them. My knowledge is mostly theoretical, but not entirely.

Okay, but I do not want to follow this up. As I do not read books and because I already KNOW thee actual Truth behind this.
But WHY would 'you' want to finish now?

Is there some thing that you do NOT want REVEALED?
I just think it's waste of time talking to someone who is not interested. I'm sure you feel the same.
Age
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by Age »

PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm
Age wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:02 pmBesides not clearing up this up for me, could 'monotheism' be some thing like your One, or Unified?
It might be seen as 'something like' it, but it's very different.
Exactly how is 'it' very different?
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm
But it is just an 'analogy', and not thee actual True and Right answer, correct?
If you consider the relationship between waves an oceans you'll have got the idea. Or you could use sparks and a fire.
Or, we could use the actual words, which are thee actual Truth, correct?
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm
How did you MISS the part when and where I said, 'in a UNIFIED manner with and by EVERY one'?

This means that if, and when, recognizing and accepting is UNIFIED among ALL, then EVERY one will be joyous, as One.
Yes. Those who know say that God is joy. or this would be one way of putting it. They say that the joy you feel in daily life is the presence of this source.
But which ones of these human beings are real and actual "ones" that has and already KNOWS the answers?
It is not possible to know this until you know quite a lot of what they know.
But 'who' are those ones? was what my question was asking for
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm
So, when you use the word 'mysticism', then what do you actually mean?
I mean the Perennial philosophy, the Yoga of Patanjali, the doctrine of the Upanishads. Other terms include advaita, non-dualism, self-enquiry and suchlike. The standard definition.
Are you not yet aware that there is NO actual 'standard' definition?

There are, however, definitions which are relative, and which are 'standard', relatively.
PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm
So, do you claim that 'you' ALREADY KNOW the answers?
Some of them. My knowledge is mostly theoretical, but not entirely.
Oh well that is where the 'you' and thee 'I' differs.

PeteJ wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm
Okay, but I do not want to follow this up. As I do not read books and because I already KNOW thee actual Truth behind this.
But WHY would 'you' want to finish now?

Is there some thing that you do NOT want REVEALED?
I just think it's waste of time talking to someone who is not interested. I'm sure you feel the same.
Was there absolutely anywhere in what I wrote that indicated that I was not interested?

If yes, then WHERE was this exactly?

By the way, I said that I ALREADY KNOW thee actual Truth BEHIND what you are talking about, and which you were guiding me to (so that is WHY I did not want to follow this up). Yet it appears that it is actually 'you' who is actually NOT interested in this at all.

Thee Truth BEHIND the reason WHY you also appear NOT interested, I also KNOW. But this is, ONLY, IF you were Truly interested.
gaffo
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by gaffo »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:15 am A Muslim is one who had signed a contract with Allah, where all the relevant contractual terms are in the Quran and no where else.
not so, the Koran affirms the Torah - it claims the words of the torah are from allah, only that "the people of the book" turned from Allah's words/Torah.

so no, your claim above is a false one.

..........per your last 4 words.

theologically Islam is identicle to Judaism.
gaffo
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by gaffo »

PeteJ wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:48 am
Very roughty-speaking the Sufis are to Islam as the Christian mystics are to Christianity, having more in common with each other than with their associated Church.
yep. as for all Religions of the world there are the "mystic" sects, like the Kabbalist for the Jews.

I'm sure there are equivalents for the Buddists, Hindus, and Jains. i'm just too ignorant to know of them.
as an ignoramous, i know there must be some "mystic" sect of Christianity - be it from the Caholics or Prots.

if you know of them, inform me for my own education please.
gaffo
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by gaffo »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:41 am
Here is a question;
Can a Muslim disobey the words and commands of Allah that are in the Quran?
sure and do, as Christians ignore the evils of mixed cloth - Levictus?

ignore everyday.

we call then "cafeteria Christians/Jews/Mulims/Hindus/etc"................

....where is the hoards of Christians/Jews in the streets demanding pure clothe to wear?

- nowhere, that where.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

gaffo wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:35 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:15 am A Muslim is one who had signed a contract with Allah, where all the relevant contractual terms are in the Quran and no where else.
not so, the Koran affirms the Torah - it claims the words of the torah are from allah, only that "the people of the book" turned from Allah's words/Torah.

so no, your claim above is a false one.

..........per your last 4 words.

theologically Islam is identicle to Judaism.
When you intend to sign a contract with another parties [say a lease agreement] the contractual obligation is ONLY with reference to whatever terms are agreed upon as stipulated in the written agreement.
So the terms of the contract a Muslim has to sign with God is only within the Quran [the present agreement] and nowhere else.

The mentioned of the Torah in the Quran has no contractual significance at all to any Muslim because whichever present Torah in the hands of the Jews are the corrupted version, as Allah had asserted.
PeteJ
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by PeteJ »

gaffo wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:47 am yep. as for all Religions of the world there are the "mystic" sects, like the Kabbalist for the Jews.

I'm sure there are equivalents for the Buddists, Hindus, and Jains. i'm just too ignorant to know of them.
as an ignoramous, i know there must be some "mystic" sect of Christianity - be it from the Caholics or Prots.

if you know of them, inform me for my own education please.
Are you asking about Christian mysticism?

The Christianity of the first three centuries was mysticism, Then the Roman Church went its own way, declared the mystical view heretical, destroyed the meeting places, burned the books and became the muddled religion we have today.

The 'mystics include the Desert fathers, the writers of the Philokalia and the Nag Hammadi Library. Prominent names are the pseudo-Dionysius, Julian of Norwich, Meister Eckhart, Ruysbrook, Tauler, et al. The most recent prominent expression of this view may be the book A Course in Miracles. The literature is extensive.

My recommendation in Christianity is always Meister Eckhart. He may be the greatest Christian teacher of the later church. Of course, he was excommunicated. In Islam Al-Hallaj would be high up the list of great teachers, and he was crucified by his church. You couldn't make it up. Both churches have lost their way and as a consequence appear utterly naive and superstitious. These days people are not usually sufficiently gullible to fall for the church's dogmatic and nonsensical monotheism.
gaffo
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Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by gaffo »

PeteJ wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:57 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:47 am yep. as for all Religions of the world there are the "mystic" sects, like the Kabbalist for the Jews.

I'm sure there are equivalents for the Buddists, Hindus, and Jains. i'm just too ignorant to know of them.
as an ignoramous, i know there must be some "mystic" sect of Christianity - be it from the Caholics or Prots.

if you know of them, inform me for my own education please.
Are you asking about Christian mysticism?

The Christianity of the first three centuries was mysticism, Then the Roman Church went its own way, declared the mystical view heretical, destroyed the meeting places, burned the books and became the muddled religion we have today.

The 'mystics include the Desert fathers, the writers of the Philokalia and the Nag Hammadi Library. Prominent names are the pseudo-Dionysius, Julian of Norwich, Meister Eckhart, Ruysbrook, Tauler, et al. The most recent prominent expression of this view may be the book A Course in Miracles. The literature is extensive.

My recommendation in Christianity is always Meister Eckhart. He may be the greatest Christian teacher of the later church. Of course, he was excommunicated. In Islam Al-Hallaj would be high up the list of great teachers, and he was crucified by his church. You couldn't make it up. Both churches have lost their way and as a consequence appear utterly naive and superstitious. These days people are not usually sufficiently gullible to fall for the church's dogmatic and nonsensical monotheism.

Wow, thanks for the names' drop (I know about Mary Baker-eddy - but none of the others. thanks for offering a post for me to do some reading on the persons i know nothing about.

- thanks for being here, and making this forum worth our time Sir.

Peace to you.
PeteJ
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Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:15 pm

Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by PeteJ »

gaffo wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:50 am- thanks for being here,

Peace to you.
I very much appreciate the comment. It's great to just trade info and not have to argue.
gaffo
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Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: A Muslim is one who had Entered into a Contract with Allah.

Post by gaffo »

PeteJ wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:50 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:50 am- thanks for being here,

Peace to you.
I very much appreciate the comment. It's great to just trade info and not have to argue.
exactly! and amen for reasonable minds.

hope you are well, and look forward to talking with you in the future Sir.
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