What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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cicero117
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What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by cicero117 »

1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong? Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking

This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Belinda »

cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong? Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking

This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
It means that God is unique in His Omniscience.
Paul and Socrates had the same approach to epistemology. Socrates was the wisest man because he knew that he knew nothing.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Nick_A »

cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong? Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking

This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
You've described the question of the Tower of Babel

Genesis 11
11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
The Bible can be read superficially or with an open impartial mind. Can we read this section with more than superficial pre-conceptions?
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Impenitent »

whirledy wisdom says don't rock the dreidel...

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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Immanuel Can »

cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong?
No. In strictly worldly terms, such wisdom may seem quite "right."

But it does say such wisdom is "worldly," meaning it 'works' only if it is the case that this world is all there is. For somebody who has no knowledge of God, it may well have practical utility and even a "common sense" clarity about it, making perfect sense with a world merely composed of material entities and no spiritual dimension at all. According to worldly standards, it may well be "wise."

But that's the ''catch." To reckon as if this world is all there is and to go on as if this world and its systems are part of some kind of persisting or eternal order is "foolishness" if this world is NOT all there is. For then, it means to ignore God, think nothing of His Justice, imagine that the present state of things is going to be indefinite, conduct oneself solipsistically or amorally, never repent or seek reconciliation with God, make no preparation for eternity, and get caught red-handed and without excuse at the Great Judgment.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Dubious »

cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong? Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking

This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
No! He just means the know-it-all and smart alecs who presume to know the mind of god eager to tell everyone what it is.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Age »

cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong?
No. For example the knowledge that the, so called, "worldly" 'thing' known as a 'tree' by human beings is not wrong. There are 'things', labelled by the 'thing', human being, and when those "worldly" labeled 'things', like; 'roots', 'trunks', 'branches', 'twigs', and 'leaves' are put together as one, they form the "worldly knowledge" of a 'tree', or the knowledge of, so called, "worldly things". Therefore, this is not wrong.

The word 'world' is used for many different things.

The phrase or term 'this world' can be defined as, or used to describe, the way human beings live. Therefore, the way human beings live, in the days of when this is being written, is OBVIOUSLY foolishness in God's sight.

OBVIOUSLY, ANY 'being' looking down on earth, from an outside perspective, and watching and observing the way human beings live is EXTREMELY FOOLISH. Human beings are the only ones creating 'this world' through their, so called, "wisdom" the 'way it is'. So, " for the wisdom of 'this world' ", just means 'the world, which human beings are creating'. And, 'this [war-torn, polluted, greedy, and stressful world', which human beings are creating, here on earth, in the days of when this is being written, through their "wisdom", is obviously foolishness in the highest degree. Or, from God's perspective/sight.

"God catches the wise in their craftiness" just means, from God's perspective, what can be clearly seen and recognized is the way human beings 'try' to fool or trick themselves into BELIEVING that they are doing the good and/or right thing, when they are obviously NOT. This is the 'craftiness', which is in relation to the words 'devil' and 'evil, et cetera.

So, all "worldly knowledge" is NOT, necessarily, wrong. But, the "worldly knowledge" that human beings use to trick or fool themselves into BELIEVING things are true, when they are actually NOT, is what the 'craftiness' is in relation to, and what is essentially Truly wrong.
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
God is NOT some being/creature/thing that decides, through thinking, what will have 'this' and what will not.

God gave human beings, through evolution, the ability to think and have common sense. So, God did, in a sense, give human beings the ability to think and have common sense. As evidenced and proven by what human beings do, sometimes.
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking
Just out of curiosity are ALL adults 'believers'?

How many adult do you know of who do NOT believe any thing?

The words you used at the start of this thread are in relation to human beings as a whole, and NOT in relation to some people using them for or against some other peoples views and thoughts.
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
That verse is to be applied to ALL adult human beings, collectively.

When, and if, you learn just how the Mind and the brain actually work, then it all makes PERFECT SENSE.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:41 am
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong? Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking

This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
It means that God is unique in His Omniscience.
Paul and Socrates had the same approach to epistemology. Socrates was the wisest man because he knew that he knew nothing.
The human being known as "socrates" knew that he knew 'nothing', relatively.

Also, saying that a human being who knows they know nothing, is just nonsensical and absurd. If a human being says they 'know' that they 'know' nothing is obviously just contradictory and nonsensical. For a human being to say this is just plain wrong and foolish, and thus NOT wise at all.

Besides that fact, there is one 'thing' that can be 'known', for sure.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Age »

Nick_A wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 pm
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong? Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking

This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
You've described the question of the Tower of Babel

Genesis 11
11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
"One language and a common speech" just refers to looking at and seeing things from one perspective only. That is from the instinctual perspective only. This is how EVERY living thing, on the whole world, earth, once were. Then, "as people moved eastward" just refers to move forward, or into the future. This is in relation to what and how, so called, 'time' is and set to. "They found a plain in "shinar" and settled there" is just a way of expressing a story moving forward from hunting and gather to farming, and settling, and using already known place names, for and as references.
Nick_A wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 pm 3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
Human beings were starting to see and recognize that there was some thing HIGHER than them, which they were trying to reach.
Nick_A wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 pm 5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
If, and when, people come together as one and work together, as one,then they can create and achieve absolutely any thing. As evidenced and proven by ALL the things have created and achieved, when they came together and worked as one.
Nick_A wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 pm 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
When human beings are NOT clarifying with each other about what they are actually SAYING, and MEANING, then they will obviously NOT understand each other.

Having a different language, or having and using words and meanings in different ways, without ever really clarifying, then they will misunderstand each other. As evidenced and PROVEN here, throughout this forum, countless times already.

"Going down" is just going down from the Higher Being level down to the human being level. The human being level is where the one known as the 'devil' rests, and does its work by continually tricking and fooling human beings into BELIEVING things to be true, which are NOT actually true at all.
Nick_A wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 pm 8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.
They just being each and every adult human being with incorrect or wrong thinking, so misunderstanding "others", and thus not being able to work together as one creating the wrong way to reach the heights of the higher Being. This Being is reached not through creating, building, and working, but rather just through being Honest and Open.

Discovering and knowing the Higher Being, where Truth lies, comes just from understanding the One, deep within.
Nick_A wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 pm 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
And, what can be CLEARLY SEEN and which is CLEARLY EVIDENCED, throughout 'this world' and especially throughout forums like this one, is PURE BABBLE.
Nick_A wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 pm The Bible can be read superficially or with an open impartial mind. Can we read this section with more than superficial pre-conceptions?
Yes.

The babble within the bible, and within other scriptures, was done in a particular way, purposely and specifically, so that 'it' can be and WILL be used as the actual EVIDENCE and PROOF, which is needed to create what is soon-to-COME. That is; World Peace.

When the babble within ALL scriptures, philosophies, and other written works, is SEEN from the Truly OPEN perspective of the One and only Mind, then just how they are ALL REALLY saying, and MEANING, the EXACT SAME thing to lead us ALL into PEACE will be-COME Truly APPARENT and CLEAR.

This One set of agreed upon guiding instructions for EVERY one is the CRYSTAL CLEAR message, or Guider, like A PARENT is, to HOW to create what we ALL Truly want and desire for ourselves.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by gaffo »

cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”
first off "God" did not say this.

Saul did.

Saul was a proto-gnostic, like John. thier view was that Satan rule this world, and so anyone that was of this world was an agent of Satan.

older works of the OT do not have this mentality.

nor do the Synopitics.

cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong?
yep.
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
yes and he ate of the forbidden fruit......those damn figs (since the snake lost his legs over it, i wonder what the fig used to be when in its glory).


cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking
yes, per gnostic mentality of John/Saul.


cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
the former is my way - i read each work understanding the audience to whom it was written (not me 2000 yrs later) - IMO this gives a more accrurate picture.

and me not being a Christian i am free to see each work in itself and not being forced to fit in to the overal sola spriture (their are 3 theologies of Christ in the 4 gospels). Mark is one (a mortal man born via fucking with a normal father and mother, Matt/luke is the second (a devine being - son of god born via his daddy (God) and a regular mom), and John is alone in claming Christ is God.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by Hermit Philosopher »

cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.

Dear cicero117,

In biblical terms, ”worldly wisdom” refers to that which stems from the experience of living by the will of [human] Ego.

According to Christianity, Man chose - and still chooses - to live life by the Will of Ego. Instead, it asks us to try to live by the Will of God.

Worldly wisdom is foolish to God, because it cannot take into account the Divine perspective that it hasn’t got.

Think of it like this: Man is not against you; he is for himself. To God, that is short-sighted and prioritising from that position is, eventually, foolish.


Terminology

Ego - [False] Sense of self and separation from whole, based on the inevitable fact that we experience being, through our 5 senses and therefore acquire a positioned, limited perspective of reality.

Will of Ego - Choices based on Ego

Will of God - Choices based on Divine perspective

Divine Perspective - Gods “bird’s eye view” of all aspects at once (like a spiritual iCloud, if you will :wink:)


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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by attofishpi »

Dubious wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:43 am
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

If so, does that mean all worldly knowledge are wrong? Didn't God gave man the ability to think and have common sense?
If non-believers wisdom is foolishness then does that mean St.Augustine's doctrine are also "foolish" taking in account that he was greatly influenced by neo-platonistic way of thinking

This verse is written in the context of the division of the church in Corinthians, so should I just interpret this as a verse to reprimand the members of the Corinthians church to think "foolishly" or can this verse be applied to everything in general?
No! He just means the know-it-all and smart alecs who presume to know the mind of god eager to tell everyone what it is.
Well look at that, it takes an atheist to comprehend what I think is the closest interpretation of it. Certainly within my own gnosis what I have come to know about God from 23yrs of continued and direct communication\experience, is that much of the bible is bollocks. Thus, I don't buy bull.

Your statement brings to mind the evangelists in the US, with their perfect shiny white teeth crafting away for money and power, with massive flocks of fools sucking up every piece of buy bull bollocks they spout.

There is a reason PASTOR reverses to ROT_SAP ---> God hates the scum. (even the good ones don't question, they just take it all like God had sat down at a typewriter and wrote the whole buy bull bollocks for them.)
From experience IT wants to be questioned, that's why IT gave us intelligence, not just suck it up like mindless morons.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by attofishpi »

gaffo wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:09 am
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”
first off "God" did not say this.

Saul did.

Saul was a proto-gnostic, like John. thier view was that Satan rule this world, and so anyone that was of this world was an agent of Satan.
Well done gaffo!
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by gaffo »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:47 pm
gaffo wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:09 am
cicero117 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:01 am 1 Corinthians 3: 19 stated : For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”
first off "God" did not say this.

Saul did.

Saul was a proto-gnostic, like John. thier view was that Satan rule this world, and so anyone that was of this world was an agent of Satan.
Well done gaffo!

????????? ok, well done for what? - for knowing that there are at least 80 books in the "bible" spanning a 1000 yrs, and if one has an honest perspective can pick the worthy from the unworthy - not per their theology, but per their "spirit"/theme - Leviticus is evil - the worst part of the Torah, and exact same as the worst part of the Koran.

that is a fact.

though i'm just an athiest born to burn forever - so God's "love" is limited to only the living - if i accept his Son from Hell (after living as an Athiest and then dying and finding myself "still alive" in Hell), and He ignores my "salvation" (affirmation" more apt - "ok i was wrong as the athiest, i know know you exist").

well i me being an Athiest, i shell leave that all up to God/"god"/"gods"/etc...............and their character.

if i find myself wrong in this life, and so in Hell for being an Athiest. i leave my salvation from Hell to "god" - the bible limits such salvation - so Gods love is conditional.

or the bible is wrong.

either way, i leave all that shit up to your god and you. i will just live my life in the interum.

attofishpi wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:47 pm clueless, welcome discussion with you - from the nature of God to the good tomato - seeing your posts for the last 3 yrs.

what do you wish to discussion so you and i and can discusss - and a agree or dissagree over - stuff.
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Re: What is "worldly wisdom" according to God?

Post by attofishpi »

gaffo wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:16 am
attofishpi wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:47 pm
gaffo wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:09 am

first off "God" did not say this.

Saul did.

Saul was a proto-gnostic, like John. thier view was that Satan rule this world, and so anyone that was of this world was an agent of Satan.
Well done gaffo!

????????? ok, well done for what? - for knowing that there are at least 80 books in the "bible" spanning a 1000 yrs, and if one has an honest perspective can pick the worthy from the unworthy - not per their theology, but per their "spirit"/theme - Leviticus is evil - the worst part of the Torah, and exact same as the worst part of the Koran.

that is a fact.
The 'well done gaffo' was a complement for the fact that you rightly pointed out that this thread is bollocks since it was not God but Paul that wrote that bollocks.

gaffo wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:16 amthough i'm just an athiest born to burn forever - so God's "love" is limited to only the living - if i accept his Son from Hell (after living as an Athiest and then dying and finding myself "still alive" in Hell), and He ignores my "salvation" (affirmation" more apt - "ok i was wrong as the athiest, i know know you exist").

well i me being an Athiest, i shell leave that all up to God/"god"/"gods"/etc...............and their character.
Why are you suggesting you will burn in hell forever, JUST because you didn't believe?

You sound like an atheist that lives in the US and stumbled into one of those dumb fuck evangelist preaching events and walked out thinking - WELL THAT IS GOD (if it exists). NO it ain't - don't listen to the crafty VAIN pathetic PASTOR - ROT_SAP

Understand, you know the bible WAAAY more than me. After God introduced its control over reality to me way back and ever since 1997, I decided to read about Christ - hence read the gospels.

I know God rather personally. He\it ain't giving too much of a shit if you believe or not...it would prefer you believed though (i think)

gaffo wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:16 amif i find myself wrong in this life, and so in Hell for being an Athiest. i leave my salvation from Hell to "god" - the bible limits such salvation - so Gods love is conditional.

or the bible is wrong.
Many moons ago I jumped into a Catholic Forum (i didn't last long - I was raised Catholic btw) and one of the threads was 'Gods unconditional love' wank wank - I posted 'well what were the 10 commandments then, if they were not conditions?'

Let's face it MOST theists are brainwashed non-thinking morons.

gaffo wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:16 ameither way, i leave all that shit up to your god and you. i will just live my life in the interum.
Good for you, and why shouldn't you. But since you are here in the religion thread (rather often) and have actually studied the buy bull, seems you are interested IF there is something a bit deeper to it all?

attofishpi wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:47 pm clueless, welcome discussion with you - from the nature of God to the good tomato - seeing your posts for the last 3 yrs.

what do you wish to discussion so you and i and can discusss - and a agree or dissagree over - stuff.
I don't remember that gaffo - but sure, IT IS TIME.

I would like to learn more from your POV about this predominately stupid book called the bible...maybe we can teach each other stuff. :D
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