philosophy of religion isn't possible

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Advocate
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philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Advocate »

While philosophy can be applied to anything, the idea of applying it to religion is inherently a waste of time. Religion requires dogma and dogma is faith - belief without recourse to evidence. It's possible to philosophize about how religion relates to other things but not about religion in and of itself. That's called theology and is arbitrary, not a study of reality.

In other words, philosophy is a study dedicated to finding truth while religion is all about accepting revealed and apparent facts with complete disregard for whether they're physically or logically possible. The two movements toward "truth" move in opposite directions.
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henry quirk
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by henry quirk »

Have you examined deism or talked to a deist?
Impenitent
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Impenitent »

I talked to a deist once, but he was always one step below average...

-Imp
Advocate
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Advocate »

First, the concept of god would need to be defined in such a way as to be verifiable.
Then, the verification of the infinite must be within reach of us, the finite.
Finally, the verification must be done and the results must be positive.

Anything less and god is indistinguishable from fiction.
Ergo, god is indistinguishable from fiction.

EDIT: and not very good fiction.
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henry quirk
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by henry quirk »

Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:46 pm First, the concept of god would need to be defined in such a way as to be verifiable.
Then, the verification of the infinite must be within reach of us, the finite.
Finally, the verification must be done and the results must be positive.

Anything less and god is indistinguishable from fiction.
Ergo, god is indistinguishable from fiction.

EDIT: and not very good fiction.
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Advocate »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:06 am
Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:46 pm First, the concept of god would need to be defined in such a way as to be verifiable.
Then, the verification of the infinite must be within reach of us, the finite.
Finally, the verification must be done and the results must be positive.

Anything less and god is indistinguishable from fiction.
Ergo, god is indistinguishable from fiction.

EDIT: and not very good fiction.
okeedoke
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RCSaunders
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by RCSaunders »

Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:40 pm While philosophy can be applied to anything, the idea of applying it to religion is inherently a waste of time. Religion requires dogma and dogma is faith - belief without recourse to evidence. It's possible to philosophize about how religion relates to other things but not about religion in and of itself. That's called theology and is arbitrary, not a study of reality.

In other words, philosophy is a study dedicated to finding truth while religion is all about accepting revealed and apparent facts with complete disregard for whether they're physically or logically possible. The two movements toward "truth" move in opposite directions.
"Philosophy of religion," is oxymoronic, like, "science of alchemy," "medical witch doctor," or, "technology of astrology."
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:40 pm While philosophy can be applied to anything, the idea of applying it to religion is inherently a waste of time. Religion requires dogma and dogma is faith - belief without recourse to evidence. It's possible to philosophize about how religion relates to other things but not about religion in and of itself. That's called theology and is arbitrary, not a study of reality.

In other words, philosophy is a study dedicated to finding truth while religion is all about accepting revealed and apparent facts with complete disregard for whether they're physically or logically possible. The two movements toward "truth" move in opposite directions.
Philosophy is basically a meta-approach to anything field of knowledge or beliefs.

Philosophy is not dedicated to finding truths only but also whether any claim is false. If any claim is false, then philosophy will facilitate in rejecting that falsehood.
Philosophy is not involved directly in seeking truth but rather provide the framework and system to enable the respective truth seekers to ensure they know how to justify truth with an understanding of its limitations.

Therefore it is very necessary to have a Philosophy of Theology or religions to establish the truths and falsehoods emerging from theology or religions.
There have been people who had adopted and applied philosophy to their theology and religion. Many progress in their thinking and many had also thought themselves out of theology and theists when they realized the falsehoods of theology.

In any case, wherever there are activities of attempting to organize whatever data systematically into general principles [either true or false], that is basically philosophy. Example Science is the application of the Scientific Method, but the establishing and maintenance of the Scientific Method belong to philosophy.

What is critical is one of the maxim of philosophy is to keep questioning and never seeking 100% certain answers to any questions [Bertrand Russell]. The majority of theists may not prefer philosophy as such, but why should we cut off Philosophy from theology for those who are inclined to philosophy.
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Age »

Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:46 pm First, the concept of god would need to be defined in such a way as to be verifiable.
Has ALREADY been done.
Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:46 pm Then, the verification of the infinite must be within reach of us, the finite.
ALREADY been achieved.
Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:46 pm Finally, the verification must be done and the results must be positive.
Again, ALREADY done, as the positive results are ALREADY in.
Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:46 pm Anything less and god is indistinguishable from fiction.
Ergo, god is indistinguishable from fiction.

EDIT: and not very good fiction.
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Advocate »

>Philosophy is basically a meta-approach to anything field of knowledge or beliefs.

>Philosophy is not dedicated to finding truths only but also whether any claim is false. If any claim is false, then philosophy will facilitate in rejecting that falsehood.

The rejection is of the usefulness of doing so. You don't need even an elementary understanding of philosophy or religion to understand that claims made without evidence should be rejected. You don't even need to understand whether it's religion or philosophy you're supposedly doing. Any epistemology that can be applied to religion is just epistemology. Any deconstruction applied to religion is just deconstruction. There's no philosophy of Shroedinger's cat, because that particular application of philosophy is only of minor importance. Likewise, no matter what you can prove about religion, the fact that it relies on faith and faith isn't compatible with knowledge (justified belief) is sufficient to disregard any further claims. The only possible "philosophy of religion" that Does matter is that religion is indistinguishable from fiction, just like philosophy of anything else that doesn't burden itself with notions of evidential certainty. It's really philosophy of woo, and the entire subject is a single point long.
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by PeteJ »

I'm baffled why it is said here that religion is all about faith and dogma. It goes to show how narrow a view of religion we have in our society. I would recommend a study of comparative religion.
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by gaffo »

Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:40 pm While philosophy can be applied to anything, the idea of applying it to religion is inherently a waste of time. Religion requires dogma and dogma is faith - belief without recourse to evidence.

yep, and sadly evidenced by Descarte.

Advocate wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:40 pm The two movements toward "truth" move in opposite directions.
not sure about that.
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Advocate »

PeteJ wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:42 pm I'm baffled why it is said here that religion is all about faith and dogma. It goes to show how narrow a view of religion we have in our society. I would recommend a study of comparative religion.
The reason why is that dogma is an inherent part of every religion. Every single religion has it.It's the most defining feature, giving answers based on faith, one way or other.
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by PeteJ »

Advocate wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:09 am
PeteJ wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:42 pm I'm baffled why it is said here that religion is all about faith and dogma. It goes to show how narrow a view of religion we have in our society. I would recommend a study of comparative religion.
The reason why is that dogma is an inherent part of every religion. Every single religion has it.It's the most defining feature, giving answers based on faith, one way or other.
I'd say it depends on how you define religion.
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Re: philosophy of religion isn't possible

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Advocate wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:52 pm >Philosophy is basically a meta-approach to anything field of knowledge or beliefs.

>Philosophy is not dedicated to finding truths only but also whether any claim is false. If any claim is false, then philosophy will facilitate in rejecting that falsehood.

The rejection is of the usefulness of doing so. You don't need even an elementary understanding of philosophy or religion to understand that claims made without evidence should be rejected. You don't even need to understand whether it's religion or philosophy you're supposedly doing. Any epistemology that can be applied to religion is just epistemology. Any deconstruction applied to religion is just deconstruction. There's no philosophy of Shroedinger's cat, because that particular application of philosophy is only of minor importance. Likewise, no matter what you can prove about religion, the fact that it relies on faith and faith isn't compatible with knowledge (justified belief) is sufficient to disregard any further claims. The only possible "philosophy of religion" that Does matter is that religion is indistinguishable from fiction, just like philosophy of anything else that doesn't burden itself with notions of evidential certainty. It's really philosophy of woo, and the entire subject is a single point long.
It may be obvious to you but not the more than 90% of the 7 billion theists on Earth who believe God exists as real is so true, to the extent God will listens
and answers their prayers.
Some [e.g. Muslims believe their God is very true and they will obey Allah's command to kill non-Muslim under the slightest sign of threat to their religion.
It is for this reason we need philosophy to supervise over religion and influence people to the truth.
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