What causes muslims to be violent

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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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gaffo wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:03 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:08 am
gaffo wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:45 pm then provide a works in the canon that addresses this.
Genesis obviously does. It tells us what animals were created for.
ok tell me more.
What interests you?

One thing might be that God gave mankind the responsibility to name the animals. You don't name something you're setting out to destroy. Another might be that animals were created "good," as God says, so not something to be exploited or wiped out, and that mankind was made to be a steward of the Earth, not a destroyer of it.

But what else is of interest?
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:08 am However, there's no reason to fault any belief system for putting mankind on a different level from animals
why not?
Because everybody does that.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:08 am -- nobody does anything else...
Western Religions are human centric, Eastern ones are not (Jainism/Buddism/Hinduism).
Well, let's see if that's true.

Even eastern religions are only practiced by humans. They teach us humans to be responsible for the tigers and monkeys; they never teach any tigers and monkeys to be responsible for us. And does any eastern religion teach fish and flowers to save humans?

So eastern religions recognize that mankind is unique, and above animals, and responsible for what happens to them and to the environment. So it's a myth that they put everything on the same level. Perhaps some would say that animals are as morally valuable as humans, or even are reincarnated humans...that we could say...but not one of them says animals are responsible FOR humans. They all see it the other way around.

Even in somewhere like India, the cars stop for the cows. The cows are not ever responsible to stop for the cars.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:08 am
I believe, from reading the bible, that the synoptics (and Gospel of John too) affirmed the above. but Saul did not,
Oh, you're most certainly wrong about that. There's lots of evidence Paul believed in the Resurrection and Messiahship of Jesus.
ok, provide your evidence, so we may discuss.
Easy. I'll give you just one...well, many actually, but as one.

Do you know what the expression "Lord Jesus Christ" that Paul uses so much ( for example, in Romans 5, but also all over his writings) actually means?

"Lord" is a title of God. "Jesus" identifies the specific person being spoken of. And "Christ" is the Greek word "Messiah." So the expression "Lord Jesus Christ" means "God Jesus Messiah." All three titles in one.

Every time Paul speaks of Jesus as "Lord" or "Christ," he's saying exactly the same thing.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:08 am Hope you're doing well.
well enough, thanks for asking.

and you?
Yes, very well. Bored with all this COVID lockdown stuff, but then, everybody is.
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:31 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:53 pm Socialism and democracy need constant care to prevent their deterioration. Public apathy like in US and UK has brought bad conservative regimes to power. How can the people be enlightened?
Socialism kills people. It has done it every single time in history that it has become the dominant political-economic model. It has killed more human beings than literally any other cause, and by orders of magnitude. But you think the US and UK have "bad regimes" right now?

So you want to overlook the Stalins and Maos, the Castros, Kim Jongs and Pol Pots, The Ceaucescus and the Titos, the Mugabes and the Hoxtas...and you want to buy into their model again. But the mildly conservative groups in the US and UK right now, you think deserve the adjective "bad" even beside those regimes? :shock:

Oy flippin' vey.
But socialists stop the excesses of capitalist greed, and direct resources to free at point of use health service, state education run on lines of equality of opportunity, free tertiary and nursery education,and nationalisation of water and transport.

How does a Christian manage to vote Conservative, or support right wing politics, or President Trump?
Last edited by Belinda on Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:20 pm But socialists stop the excesses of capitalist greed...
I know that's what they claim. But factually, not an any time have they ever done that.

What they do instead is concentrate power in the hands of a totalitarian and his coterie of supporters, whose greed soon reaches homicidal proportions. The means then being in place through centralized, uncontrolled government, they unleash hell on the populace. That's how it's always played.
How does a Christian manage to vote Conservative, or support right wing politics, or President Trump?
Ask an American, I guess. I'm not qualified to answer.

But nobody who has a knowledge of history and a genuine love the welfare of the people ever opts for Socialism; that much is obvious. If somebody opts for Socialism as an answer, then they're lacking in one of those two departments -- or possibly, both.
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:00 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:20 pm But socialists stop the excesses of capitalist greed...
I know that's what they claim. But factually, not an any time have they ever done that.

What they do instead is concentrate power in the hands of a totalitarian and his coterie of supporters, whose greed soon reaches homicidal proportions. The means then being in place through centralized, uncontrolled government, they unleash hell on the populace. That's how it's always played.
How does a Christian manage to vote Conservative, or support right wing politics, or President Trump?
Ask an American, I guess. I'm not qualified to answer.

But nobody who has a knowledge of history and a genuine love the welfare of the people ever opts for Socialism; that much is obvious. If somebody opts for Socialism as an answer, then they're lacking in one of those two departments -- or possibly, both.
But you are right wing conservative. And a Christian. How do you rationalise?

In my lived experience the Labour party of the UK, which is broadly socialist, has actually improved life for me and my patients, and for me and my students.When infrastructures were nationalised they became more efficient.I know ;I was there.
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henry quirk
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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How does a Christian manage to vote Conservative, or support right wing politics, or President Trump?

what is it about conservatism, the right-wing, or trump that you find anti-christian?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:49 pm But you are right wing conservative. And a Christian. How do you rationalise?
I'm a skeptic, actually. I agree with the lyrics of that renowned theologian, Gordon Summer, a.k.a. Sting:

There is no political solution
To our troubled evolution.
Have no faith in constitutions.
There is no bloody revolution...

We are spirits in the material world.

In my lived experience the Labour party of the UK...
Post WW2, that party nearly sank your national economy. They've been a disaster on immigration, overspending, social housing failure, inequality and the gold debacle. If they made some improvements in healthcare, then you've paid a huge price for it. You're very, very lucky they've never been able to destroy the Constitutional Monarchy in favour of Socialism...you'd be doing a lot worse.
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:56 pm How does a Christian manage to vote Conservative, or support right wing politics, or President Trump?

what is it about conservatism, the right-wing, or trump that you find anti-christian?

I could tell you, Henry, but Immanuel knows a lot of The New Testament.
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:00 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:49 pm But you are right wing conservative. And a Christian. How do you rationalise?
I'm a skeptic, actually. I agree with the lyrics of that renowned theologian, Gordon Summer, a.k.a. Sting:

There is no political solution
To our troubled evolution.
Have no faith in constitutions.
There is no bloody revolution...

We are spirits in the material world.

In my lived experience the Labour party of the UK...
Post WW2, that party nearly sank your national economy. They've been a disaster on immigration, overspending, social housing failure, inequality and the gold debacle. If they made some improvements in healthcare, then you've paid a huge price for it. You're very, very lucky they've never been able to destroy the Constitutional Monarchy in favour of Socialism...you'd be doing a lot worse.
"We are spirits in the material world"you say. Is that sufficient reason to not try to imitate Jesus?
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henry quirk
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:02 pm
henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:56 pm How does a Christian manage to vote Conservative, or support right wing politics, or President Trump?

what is it about conservatism, the right-wing, or trump that you find anti-christian?

I could tell you, Henry, but Immanuel knows a lot of The New Testament.
then tell me
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:04 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:02 pm
henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:56 pm How does a Christian manage to vote Conservative, or support right wing politics, or President Trump?

what is it about conservatism, the right-wing, or trump that you find anti-christian?

I could tell you, Henry, but Immanuel knows a lot of The New Testament.
then tell me
"Let everyone who possesses two shirts share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise." (Luke: 3; 11)
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:03 pm "We are spirits in the material world"you say. Is that sufficient reason to not try to imitate Jesus?
Jesus Christ? You mean the one who said, "My kingdom is not of this world?" That one? :shock:

But I'm curious: you seem to think you know what I do...how did you acquire this information? Or are you just assuming that somebody who rejects Neo-Marxism and doesn't want to see people killed cannot possibly be charitable? I'm not quite getting your logic.
Last edited by Immanuel Can on Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:09 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:03 pm "We are spirits in the material world"you say. Is that sufficient reason to not try to imitate Jesus?
Jesus Christ? You mean the one who said, "My kingdom is not of this world?" That one? :shock:

But I'm curious: you seem to think you know what I do...how did you acquire this information?
Despite that this world was not his kingdom, Jesus taught us to share and share alike.

I know the persona named Immanuel Can on Philososphy Now, it is easy to know as it is consistent.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:14 pm Jesus taught us to share and share alike.
Not "share." Not Socialist "sharing," anyway.

He taught charity. Socialism eliminates all charitability, because the government takes over paternalistically and prevents anyone from having anything to share.
I know the persona named Immanuel Can on Philososphy Now...
Not as well as you imagine, apparently. But what gives you confidence that somebody who types in persona cannot possibly be charitable?
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henry quirk
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:08 pm
henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:04 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:02 pm

I could tell you, Henry, but Immanuel knows a lot of The New Testament.
then tell me
"Let everyone who possesses two shirts share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise." (Luke: 3; 11)
many christians do just that, through charity

these christians also resent gov takin' from them and givin' to those who may not deserve compassion or charity

to emulate Jesus is not synonymous with bein indiscriminate

anyway: what makes you think conservatives or right-wingers or trump are lacking in compassion or charity?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

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henry quirk wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:20 pm anyway: what makes you think conservatives or right-wingers or trump are lacking in compassion or charity?
Socialists think Socialism arises out of goodness of heart. They think that until the ironman appears, the gulags get going, the firing squads show up, and starvation sets in when the economy hits bottom. Then they know better.

But it's always too late for the victims.

I think genuine compassion doesn't kill people. What do you think?
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