What causes muslims to be violent

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Belinda wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:00 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:51 am
Belinda wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:13 am
The Daily Mail is biased towards fear of ethnic minorities. I do believe such curriculums and such teaching methods are bad for society, bad for individual children.I am not sure what is the best policy for bringing European Muslims into modern democratic society . France actively discourages religious separatism. UK has a softer method which tolerates madrassas if they obey certain rules. At least one of those rules is shown in the video being infringed. Personally I think the UK government is too soft on madrassas and the inspectorate should be more investigative.

As for the Koran, proper education especially in humanities such as history of ideas will enable Muslims to view the Koran as literature.
My emphasis is not on the Daily Mail.

My point was to show that the inherently evil Islam influences Muslims to be violent in many aspects of life and the evil prone [minority 300 million] are likely to commit evil in the name of Allah as a religious duty.
Since Seed showed a pic of learning the Quran, I did a quick search for evidence there is violence even in the teaching of Quran. It is only from the daily mail, but there are loads of evidence to show there are violence on students in the teaching of Quran because the religious teacher is too zealous to please Allah and followed the commands of Allah.

Btw, at present there are no more Newspapers [Broadsheet or Tabloid] that are reliable anymore.
But the video that I showed is self-evident [less it can be proven it was fake].
Yes, but what do you propose should be done by Europeanised societies to stop Koran based violence?
It is not going to be easy and I do not expect the problem of Quran-based violence can be resolved immediately at present or the next two generations. But with the right effective efforts human can resolve the problem after two generations and thereafter.

However what we can do now is to initiate the steps [like discussions herewith and worldwide] to present the objective facts that the ideology of Islam [within the Quran] is inherently evil which overrides whatever goods therein.

The evilness in the Quran is worst than that of the Main Kempf. If humanity has acknowledge the evil-ness of the Main Kempf and suppressed/condemned it, humanity should do the same with the Q.

The problem with the above is there are 1.5 billion people [Muslims] clinging on the Quran for their salvation. So we cannot remove the Q and ideology immediately else those Muslims will go spiritually insane.

Thus the solution towards the future is to bring awareness to the masses of that the Q is inherently evil and provide objective proofs that it is evil-laden.

Thereafter there should be the slow process to get all Muslims to replace their Islam with other pacifist religions or get out of religion [preferred]. The bottom line is everyone must have some foundation to deal with the inherent and unavoidable existential crisis/dilemma effectively.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas, I think a lot of the opposition you meet on this thread is because people are afraid of bullying any ethnic minority. And rightly so.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Belinda wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:01 am Veritas Aequitas, I think a lot of the opposition you meet on this thread is because people are afraid of bullying any ethnic minority. And rightly so.
The real issue is not about ethnic minority.

It is about Islam and Muslims wherever they are.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims [the numbers are increasing fast] around the world which is a significant quantum, thus not any insignificant minority.

The problem is the 1.5 billion Muslims believe in one same book, Allah and Muhammad; thus they are of one mind or one co-ordinated swarm against non-Muslims.

Note the case of the drawing of cartoons of Muhammad in Paris which triggered Muslims around the world to kill non-Muslims and damage their properties. It is the same reaction around the world whenever there is a perception [mis-] by Muslims of threats against their Islam by non-Muslims.
When Muslims hear or read the word 'Jews' [in their own language] there would be a spontaneous surge of hatred in them from being brainwashed by the Quran even when most have not met a Jew or know about Israel.

The focus should be on the ideology of Islam and not the Muslims as human beings who are victimized by the ideology they have to cling on.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:35 am
Belinda wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:01 am Veritas Aequitas, I think a lot of the opposition you meet on this thread is because people are afraid of bullying any ethnic minority. And rightly so.
The real issue is not about ethnic minority.

It is about Islam and Muslims wherever they are.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims [the numbers are increasing fast] around the world which is a significant quantum, thus not any insignificant minority.

The problem is the 1.5 billion Muslims believe in one same book, Allah and Muhammad; thus they are of one mind or one co-ordinated swarm against non-Muslims.

Note the case of the drawing of cartoons of Muhammad in Paris which triggered Muslims around the world to kill non-Muslims and damage their properties. It is the same reaction around the world whenever there is a perception [mis-] by Muslims of threats against their Islam by non-Muslims.
When Muslims hear or read the word 'Jews' [in their own language] there would be a spontaneous surge of hatred in them from being brainwashed by the Quran even when most have not met a Jew or know about Israel.

The focus should be on the ideology of Islam and not the Muslims as human beings who are victimized by the ideology they have to cling on.
To be sure it is much noted that there was a criminal attempted curb on free speech . The Muslim parents and the killer were criminals who beheaded a teacher for the blasphemy of showing published material about Muhammed. The problem is how to stop these criminals behaving as they do. This is a practical problem not a philosophical problem.

As a practical problem there is no question social psychologists and law makers will be aware of faults in the ideology of Islam which , if Muslims regard these faults as radical to their faith, lead to atrocities. Why do you keep beating the drum?
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:47 am
It is about Islam and Muslims wherever they are.
As a practical problem there is no question social psychologists and law makers will be aware of faults in the ideology of Islam which , if Muslims regard these faults as radical to their faith, lead to atrocities.
Well, here's something very interesting to see...this vid has a map of Islamic expansionism, and juxtaposes it with the Catholic Crusades in a way that is unmistakeable.

Start at 1:21 for the shortest viewing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo

Once you see it, you'll never forget it.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Dontaskme »

What causes muslims to be violent can't be known, but it is plainly obvious that every living life form both animate or inanimate are all violent by nature.

Nature is a sadistic killer, she creates monsters that eat other monsters, she could even be called Frankenstien and her monsters.

There is no known cause or cure for this crazy insane barbaric torturous killing machine that shits on itself constantly without a care for any of it's creations feelings.

If God does exist, and this senseless barbaric agonising pain causing killing machine is all God, then God is one sick piece of shit.

.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Belinda wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:47 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:35 am
Belinda wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:01 am Veritas Aequitas, I think a lot of the opposition you meet on this thread is because people are afraid of bullying any ethnic minority. And rightly so.
The real issue is not about ethnic minority.

It is about Islam and Muslims wherever they are.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims [the numbers are increasing fast] around the world which is a significant quantum, thus not any insignificant minority.

The problem is the 1.5 billion Muslims believe in one same book, Allah and Muhammad; thus they are of one mind or one co-ordinated swarm against non-Muslims.

Note the case of the drawing of cartoons of Muhammad in Paris which triggered Muslims around the world to kill non-Muslims and damage their properties. It is the same reaction around the world whenever there is a perception [mis-] by Muslims of threats against their Islam by non-Muslims.
When Muslims hear or read the word 'Jews' [in their own language] there would be a spontaneous surge of hatred in them from being brainwashed by the Quran even when most have not met a Jew or know about Israel.

The focus should be on the ideology of Islam and not the Muslims as human beings who are victimized by the ideology they have to cling on.
To be sure it is much noted that there was a criminal attempted curb on free speech . The Muslim parents and the killer were criminals who beheaded a teacher for the blasphemy of showing published material about Muhammed. The problem is how to stop these criminals behaving as they do. This is a practical problem not a philosophical problem.

As a practical problem there is no question social psychologists and law makers will be aware of faults in the ideology of Islam which , if Muslims regard these faults as radical to their faith, lead to atrocities. Why do you keep beating the drum?
If you view it as a practical problem you will always be fire-fighting the problem without being aware of the proximate and ultimate root causes.

The problem of violence from Islamists is very complex - that is why it is still ongoing.
To resolve difficult one need to dig deep into its root causes and extricate the problem at the root level.

To get to the root levels, we need philosophy [unrestrained and open ended] to dig out the root causes.

The focus is not how to stop these criminals [beheaders] from behaving as they do.
The focus should be understanding "why" these criminals and their likes are behaving as they do.
The solution will not be one 'why' but why, then why, why, why at ever stage till we get to the root cause.

Roughly, the solution is quite simple in theory, i.e.
No other religion at present kill [behead] non-believers for blasphemy, it is only Islam that condone such evils.
Therefore get rid of Islam and there will be no Muslims driven to kill non-Muslims for Islamic reasons.
But then there is still the why? why? why? till we get to the root reason.

But we have consider other factors and problems associating with getting rid of Islam at present.

This is why we need to bring in 'philosophy' [all encompassing] to deal with this very complex issues.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:18 am
Belinda wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:47 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:35 am
The real issue is not about ethnic minority.

It is about Islam and Muslims wherever they are.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims [the numbers are increasing fast] around the world which is a significant quantum, thus not any insignificant minority.

The problem is the 1.5 billion Muslims believe in one same book, Allah and Muhammad; thus they are of one mind or one co-ordinated swarm against non-Muslims.

Note the case of the drawing of cartoons of Muhammad in Paris which triggered Muslims around the world to kill non-Muslims and damage their properties. It is the same reaction around the world whenever there is a perception [mis-] by Muslims of threats against their Islam by non-Muslims.
When Muslims hear or read the word 'Jews' [in their own language] there would be a spontaneous surge of hatred in them from being brainwashed by the Quran even when most have not met a Jew or know about Israel.

The focus should be on the ideology of Islam and not the Muslims as human beings who are victimized by the ideology they have to cling on.
To be sure it is much noted that there was a criminal attempted curb on free speech . The Muslim parents and the killer were criminals who beheaded a teacher for the blasphemy of showing published material about Muhammed. The problem is how to stop these criminals behaving as they do. This is a practical problem not a philosophical problem.

As a practical problem there is no question social psychologists and law makers will be aware of faults in the ideology of Islam which , if Muslims regard these faults as radical to their faith, lead to atrocities. Why do you keep beating the drum?
If you view it as a practical problem you will always be fire-fighting the problem without being aware of the proximate and ultimate root causes.

The problem of violence from Islamists is very complex - that is why it is still ongoing.
To resolve difficult one need to dig deep into its root causes and extricate the problem at the root level.

To get to the root levels, we need philosophy [unrestrained and open ended] to dig out the root causes.

The focus is not how to stop these criminals [beheaders] from behaving as they do.
The focus should be understanding "why" these criminals and their likes are behaving as they do.
The solution will not be one 'why' but why, then why, why, why at ever stage till we get to the root cause.

Roughly, the solution is quite simple in theory, i.e.
No other religion at present kill [behead] non-believers for blasphemy, it is only Islam that condone such evils.
Therefore get rid of Islam and there will be no Muslims driven to kill non-Muslims for Islamic reasons.
But then there is still the why? why? why? till we get to the root reason.

But we have consider other factors and problems associating with getting rid of Islam at present.

This is why we need to bring in 'philosophy' [all encompassing] to deal with this very complex issues.
How would you "get rid of Islam" ? How does one get rid of any ideology? Your approach, to argue how the ideology is dangerous, is only one of the means to stop the criminals. I agree these verses in the Koran are potentially dangerous. However these verses are not what motivated the people who beheaded the school teacher; the murderers were motivated by perceived insult to Muhammad.It is obvious to Muslims it's impractical and impossible to kill all the unbelievers, so the bad verses in the Koran are not the problem.The problem is people who want to stop free speech and who tell deliberate lies for their own advancement. Radicalised Muslims are part of the same problem as regimes such as Pakistan that punish 'blasphemy'. Regimes that punish 'blasphemy' are similar to regimes that sponsor nationalism in that they are all basically tribal, not universal, ideologies.

The school teacher's method was based on freedom of thought and speech while the murderous objecting parent and the killer disapproved of free speech and free thought. Freedom of thought and speech is consistent with universal interests, while curbs on free speech and free thought are consistent with tribal interests.

Radical Islam is only one of the many machines that curb free thought and free speech.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Belinda wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:19 am How would you "get rid of Islam" ? How does one get rid of any ideology? Your approach, to argue how the ideology is dangerous, is only one of the means to stop the criminals. I agree these verses in the Koran are potentially dangerous.
How did we suppress the ideology of Nazism? Because it is so obvious Nazism is laden with malignant evil and its consequences are very evident.

If you understand and realize there are evil laden verses in the Quran that are potentially dangerous, then logically, rationally and morally, you should agree the ideas and beliefs from these verses should be suppressed.

The problem is the majority of people do not understand the potential dangerous evil laden verse in the Quran.
Thus the solution is to educate the majority of the truth of these evil laden verses in the Quran that are potentially fatal to non-Muslims.
This is a difficult task but the majority must strive to do so.

I get the impression, because it is seemingly difficult, therefore we all should be resigned to allow the evil laden verses be active in the minds of Muslims and let things be.

I believe all concerned citizens of humanity should not just give up but strive to find foolproof solutions to the above problem.
However these verses are not what motivated the people who beheaded the school teacher; the murderers were motivated by perceived insult to Muhammad.
Even when you understand the evil laden verses are dangerous you don't seem to understand the significant impact of evil on the majority and humanity.

No Muslim would dare to behead and kill non-Muslims if there is no permission from Allah to do it.
The ONLY source of authority and permission from Allah for Muslims to kill non-Muslims for the slightest threat to Islam [in this case drawings of cartoons] is from the Quran and nowhere else.
So how come you are not aware it is the verses from the Quran [with permission from Allah] which motivate that Muslim to behead the school teacher.

I agree that particular Muslim [or in other cases] may have other secondary motivational factors [for money, politics] but the ultimately motivating factor where Muslims killed non-Muslims are from the Quran.

Some Muslims who had killed may even be totally ignorant of the Quranic verses, but they as Muslims trust their Islamic experts, preachers, teachers, etc. who are experts with the Quranic doctrines.

Are you familiar with the Milgram Shock Experiments on Evilness?
https://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOUEC5YXV8U
While the evil prone did not hesitate to deliver electrical shock to innocent victims [pseudo], even some goody-two-shoes also shocked the innocent victims.
The conclusion is because these goody-two-shoes were influenced by the approval of the authority [the scientist experimenters].

In real life, the Muslim state of eternal life or eternal death in Hell is at stake and held by Allah, Muslims will go all the way to please Allah in compliance with Allah's commands in the Quran. This is why we have goody-two-shoes who end up as suicide-bombers to the shock of their parents and relatives.

You agree there are evil laden verses in the Quran, thus SOME [if 20% - 300 million :shock: ] will strive to comply with these evil laden verses as their duty and to please Allah so that they are highly rewarded as promised in the Quran.

Therefore as long as Islam is active, there will always be evil prone Muslims being influenced and compelled to comply with the evil laden verses in the Quran in killing non-Muslims as a religious duty.
It is obvious to Muslims it's impractical and impossible to kill all the unbelievers, so the bad verses in the Koran are not the problem.
Why do you resort to 'all the unbelievers'? Why must be it "ALL".
Morally, even killing one humans is immoral.
But note the facts of what the evil verses in the Quran has manifested in the evil below [subject to refine checking];

Image

Todate there are 37,981 incidents [with fatalities only] since 911 which probably involved >100,000 of deaths.

You think the above statistics in not a problem?
If there are uncertainty, we can half that and still that would be a problem.
The problem is people who want to stop free speech and who tell deliberate lies for their own advancement. Radicalised Muslims are part of the same problem as regimes such as Pakistan that punish 'blasphemy'. Regimes that punish 'blasphemy' are similar to regimes that sponsor nationalism in that they are all basically tribal, not universal, ideologies.

The school teacher's method was based on freedom of thought and speech while the murderous objecting parent and the killer disapproved of free speech and free thought. Freedom of thought and speech is consistent with universal interests, while curbs on free speech and free thought are consistent with tribal interests.

Radical Islam is only one of the many machines that curb free thought and free speech.
It is not the radical Muslims that is the primary factor in this case.

DNA wise, there are evil humans of different degrees [say 20%] within humanity.
That is 300 million evil prone Muslims. :shock:
When Allah in the Quran give commands and permissions in the Quranic verses for any Muslims to commit killing of non-Muslims these evil prone Muslims will very likely follow the given commands especially when eternal life or death is at stake plus such acts are preferred and highly rewarded.

Other religions recognized the natural evilness in humans and that is why all major religions -except Islam - has an overriding pacifist maxim to ensure NO believer can use the religion as an excuse to commit terrible evil acts, e.g. killing humans.
E.g. Christianity's 'love all even enemies' leave no permission nor room for Christian to kill non-Christians, it is the same with Buddhism 'compassionate to all' maxim and others.

It is only Islam where Allah [the ultimate authority] leave room and encourage Muslims to kill non-Muslims upon the slightest threats [even disbelief in Islam is a threat] to Islam.
This is how we ended with Muslims killing non-Muslims upon the drawing of cartoons which are a threat to the religion of Islam; this killing of non-Muslims is obviously with permission from Allah as commanded in the Quran.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

I dislike Islam for the reason you state, Veritas Aequitas. I was reared in the Church of Scotland and I learned much morality there. However I dislike the Church of Scotland because it got a young outspoken student hung for blasphemy. Blasphemy was a recognised crime in Xian 17th century Scotland. The Kirk has learned better. Let's hope Islam will do so too.

https://www.humanism.scot/what-we-do/hu ... sh-martyr/
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Belinda wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:51 am I dislike Islam for the reason you state, Veritas Aequitas. I was reared in the Church of Scotland and I learned much morality there. However I dislike the Church of Scotland because it got a young outspoken student hung for blasphemy. Blasphemy was a recognised crime in Xian 17th century Scotland. The Kirk has learned better. Let's hope Islam will do so too.

https://www.humanism.scot/what-we-do/hu ... sh-martyr/
But there is a critical difference here.

There are Churches and Christians who killed other Christians for blasphemy and other reasons then, but the killings were not doctrinally linked to any direct command of the God of the Gospels.
This was because the average inherent moral competence was low then in the past 19th, 18th, 17th century and beyond.
But is evident at present the moral competence of the average Christian has improved since then whereby there are less crude violence committed by them at present.

At present we do not read of Christians killing others who blasphemy against Christianity or draw the worst kind of cartoons of Jesus, burning of Bibles or putting Bibles in a pail of urine, etc.

On the other hand, most of the killings by Muslims for blasphemy and other terrible evil acts are directly linked to commands from Allah and as a religious duty.
Since all Muslims are contracted to comply with the commands of Allah in the Quran and the terms of the contract are immutable, Muslims are obligated as a duty to kill non-Muslims for blasphemy and where they are threat to the religion of Islam till eternity.

Even if the natural inherent moral competence of the Muslims is progressing naturally in time they will have to suppress that as long as they are contracted Muslims where the stake is eternal life or eternal hell. As such all Muslims has a duty to kill non-Muslims upon even the slightest threats [fasadin] (nip at the bud) to the religion of Islam.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_blasphemy

These were criminals who beheaded the teacher in France. The law in France is not Sharia law.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/indonesi ... 9bf04873d1
The Huffington Post article explains how connection between social classes, with Muslims representing the poorest class, inflames both populism and nationalism among Muslims who naturally resent their lack of social mobility. In Indonesia the nationalist sentiments of poor Muslims is against China.

The article shows how resentment , especially when religious beliefs legitimate the resentment, can result in violence.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bl ... 31896.html
This article is about what the Koran actually says about blasphemy. Here is a short except from it:
Thus, the Quran commands Muslims to judge with justice, not religion. Likewise, the Quran could have added that the faithful should only obey those in authority who are Muslim – but that notable omission speaks volumes otherwise.

User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:28 am The article shows how resentment , especially when religious beliefs legitimate the resentment, can result in violence.
Which "religious belief" is legitimating the resentment of those who are burning Philadelphia right now?
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8483
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Sculptor »

Belinda wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:28 am https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bl ... 31896.html
This article is about what the Koran actually says about blasphemy. Here is a short except from it:
Thus, the Quran commands Muslims to judge with justice, not religion. Likewise, the Quran could have added that the faithful should only obey those in authority who are Muslim – but that notable omission speaks volumes otherwise.

SInce when has what is written ever been paid attention to my believers? I would not be surprised to find many other passages in the Koran and the wider Hadith that directly contradicts that statement.
I also note that Stephen Fry is being investigated for blaspheny for an interview he did with Gay Burne. I know the interview well. I though SF gave a good and honest account.

Saying "God is evil" would get me in trouble in the majority of countries in the world including liberal Ireland it seems, and it would mean the end of my life in far too many.
Religion is mental illness.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8483
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:44 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:28 am The article shows how resentment , especially when religious beliefs legitimate the resentment, can result in violence.
Which "religious belief" is legitimating the resentment of those who are burning Philadelphia right now?
Let it burn!
Maybe it will burn some sense into the American establishement?
Post Reply