What causes muslims to be violent

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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Immanuel Can »

seeds wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:15 pm I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of the West looking down its nose and condemning Islamic methods of violence...
Sorry. I misunderstood. You were off topic, and I thought you were answering the topic.

The subject here is "What causes Muslims to be violent."
The bottom line is that, no, the West isn’t the original cause of Islamic radicalism.

Right. And that was the topic of this thread. It wasn't "What causes Muslims to continue to be even more violent today."

How about saying something relevant to the OP, then?
uwot
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by uwot »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:25 pmThe subject here is "What causes Muslims to be violent."
Yeah. The thing is that not all muslims are violent, any more than all christians are peaceful. Human beings are the most complex things we know of. It is only very dim people who think the world is simple.
seeds
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:15 pm The bottom line is that, no, the West isn’t the original cause of Islamic radicalism.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:27 pm Right. And that was the topic of this thread. It wasn't "What causes Muslims to continue to be even more violent today."
The title of the thread asks a very straight forward question, and that is:
What causes Muslims to be violent?
To which I have clearly pointed out in several posts what it is that I personally believe makes Muslims violent.

Nowhere in that OP title (or in the body of the OP) does it insist that our answers must conform to Immanuel Can’s interpretation of the OP.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:27 pm How about saying something relevant to the OP, then?
You have just reminded me of why I haven’t been conversing with you for the last couple of years, therefore...

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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Immanuel Can »

seeds wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:20 pm
seeds wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:15 pm The bottom line is that, no, the West isn’t the original cause of Islamic radicalism.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:27 pm Right. And that was the topic of this thread. It wasn't "What causes Muslims to continue to be even more violent today."
The title of the thread asks a very straight forward question, and that is:
What causes Muslims to be violent?
Right. But the West didn't "cause Muslims to be violent," or they wouldn't have been violent back in the 7th Century.
To which I have clearly pointed out in several posts what it is that I personally believe makes Muslims violent.
So you're just talking about ONE of the things that induces them to become MORE violent than usual, or violent in a particular way. There's no way it "made" them that way in the first place. There WAS no West when Islam started out as violent.

So if you had a narrow understanding of the OP, that's not wrong...but you should probably tell people you're narrowing the scope to just a partial explanation of today, and not trying to account for the general phenomenon of Islamic violence. That would be clearer.
seeds
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:57 pm
dorothea wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:09 pm Pretty simple reason for violence if you think about Nietzsche's musings on the subject: weakness, disappointment in life and lack of achievments or personal esteem....
Hello dorothea,

I couldn’t help but notice in your well-written post that you left off the Muslim violence that is induced by having imperialist invaders come into their sovereign territory and slaughter their children with drones and hellfire missiles...

Image

...while simultaneously attempting to gain control over their oil and other resources.

Furthermore, how would you react to these foreign thugs...

Image

...kicking down the door to your home in order to haul you or your loved ones off to be subjected to this...

Image

...or something far worse?

My point is that we shouldn’t be blind or feign some kind of self-righteous innocence when it comes to assessing the motives of others.
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Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:05 am There you go with your 'what aboutism'.
So what?

It is a thoroughly valid “what aboutism” to consider.

Stop speaking as if “what aboutism” is some kind of philosophical “gotcha” accusation that somehow refutes the point being made.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:05 am All sort of violence and evil acts must be condemned regardless of the source.
Agreed. And that is precisely what I am doing.

Furthermore, not only should violence and evil acts be condemned, but also any form of hypocrisy that accompanies the evil acts, as is represented in my “what aboutism” in the post that you responded to.
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seeds
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by seeds »

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I suggest that the deeper underlying answer to this question of...
“What causes Muslims to be violent?”
...can be seen in my constant insistence that humans are basically “sleepwalking” through life.

In other words, the level of consciousness that humans must function at in order to make this dream-like “Illusion” of objective reality make sense to us, is attenuated and limited in such a way as to cause us to be susceptible to “delusions.”

And what I am getting at is that all of the world’s religions are, in essence, group delusions that humans get caught up in. And through the passing of time (and metaphorically speaking, of course) these delusions seem to develop a sort of psychologically-based “gravitational mass” that attracts and holds their adherents to their divergent surfaces.

And in keeping with this gravitational metaphor, the greater the size and mass of a religion based on the number of its participants (such as seen in Christianity or Islam), then the more difficult it is to achieve “escape velocity,” so to speak.

And the point is that Islam...

(with its clearly written call for violence against infidels, or against blasphemy, or against any other perceived threats to its existence)

...is especially difficult to escape from due to the particularly intense brainwashing its adherents receive from the moment of birth and the way that its very doctrines instill fear in the brainwash-ee for even thinking of escaping.

Image

And my ultimate point is that those of us who are not caught-up in the “gravitational pull” of Islam, need to have some compassion and empathy when it comes to understanding the dilemma of its adherents.

In other words, we need to recognize the existence of the psychological prisons (delusions) that many humans (through no fault of their own) are literally trapped within based on the sheer chance of where they awakened into life on this planet.

The bottom line is that nothing is going to change in this world until the “old paradigm religions” have been replaced by something better – by something that not only makes more sense than that which it is replacing,...

...but also helps to support the innate feeling that many of us have about the existence of a higher degree of wakefulness that awaits us after we have experienced a “second birth” via the process of death.

I am talking about a second (and final) birth into a transcendent context of reality that is touted...

(by virtually all spiritual traditions)

...to reside above and outside of the “dream-like” illusion of the universe.

Image

And make no mistake about it; the majority of humans on earth are simply not going to accept anything that even remotely resembles atheism or hardcore materialism as a replacement.
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Last edited by seeds on Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Immanuel Can »

seeds wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:30 pm _______

I suggest that the deeper underlying answer to this question of...
“What causes Muslims to be violent?”
...can be seen in my constant insistence that humans are basically “sleepwalking” through life.
Ummm...no.

Sleepwalking never killed anyone, except occasionally the person doing it, if he strolled into traffic. Other than that...
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

seeds wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:30 pm _______

I suggest that the deeper underlying answer to this question of...
“What causes Muslims to be violent?”
...can be seen in my constant insistence that humans are basically “sleepwalking” through life.

In other words, the level of consciousness that humans must function at in order to make this dream-like “Illusion” of objective reality make sense to us, is attenuated and limited in such a way as to cause us to be susceptible to “delusions.”

And what I am getting at is that all of the world’s religions are, in essence, group delusions that humans get caught up in. And through the passing of time (and metaphorically speaking, of course) these delusions seem to develop a sort of psychologically-based “gravitational mass” that attracts and holds their adherents to their divergent surfaces.

And in keeping with this gravitational metaphor, the greater the size and mass of a religion based on the number of its participants (such as seen in Christianity or Islam), then the more difficult it is to achieve “escape velocity,” so to speak.

And the point is that Islam...

(with its clearly written call for violence against infidels, or against blasphemy, or against any other perceived threats to its existence)

...is especially difficult to escape from due to the particularly intense brainwashing its adherents receive from the moment of birth and the way that its very doctrines instill fear in the brainwash-ee for even thinking of escaping.

Image

And my ultimate point is that those of us who are not caught-up in the “gravitational pull” of Islam, need to have some compassion and empathy when it comes to understanding the dilemma of its adherents.

In other words, we need to recognize the existence of the psychological prisons (delusions) that many humans (through no fault of their own) are literally trapped within based on the sheer chance of where they awakened into life on this planet.

The bottom line is that nothing is going to change in this world until the “old paradigm religions” have been replaced by something better – by something that not only makes more sense than that which it is replacing,...

...but also helps to support the innate feeling that many of us have about the existence of a higher degree of wakefulness that awaits us after we have experienced a “second birth” via the process of death.
Agree with the general points of the above.

Whatever the replacement to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis, it must be FOOLPROOF from evilness.

The replacements also has to be gradual and progressive in alignment with correspondence changes of the relevant mental states, not immediate changes.
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:53 am
seeds wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:30 pm _______

I suggest that the deeper underlying answer to this question of...
“What causes Muslims to be violent?”
...can be seen in my constant insistence that humans are basically “sleepwalking” through life.

In other words, the level of consciousness that humans must function at in order to make this dream-like “Illusion” of objective reality make sense to us, is attenuated and limited in such a way as to cause us to be susceptible to “delusions.”

And what I am getting at is that all of the world’s religions are, in essence, group delusions that humans get caught up in. And through the passing of time (and metaphorically speaking, of course) these delusions seem to develop a sort of psychologically-based “gravitational mass” that attracts and holds their adherents to their divergent surfaces.

And in keeping with this gravitational metaphor, the greater the size and mass of a religion based on the number of its participants (such as seen in Christianity or Islam), then the more difficult it is to achieve “escape velocity,” so to speak.

And the point is that Islam...

(with its clearly written call for violence against infidels, or against blasphemy, or against any other perceived threats to its existence)

...is especially difficult to escape from due to the particularly intense brainwashing its adherents receive from the moment of birth and the way that its very doctrines instill fear in the brainwash-ee for even thinking of escaping.

Image

And my ultimate point is that those of us who are not caught-up in the “gravitational pull” of Islam, need to have some compassion and empathy when it comes to understanding the dilemma of its adherents.

In other words, we need to recognize the existence of the psychological prisons (delusions) that many humans (through no fault of their own) are literally trapped within based on the sheer chance of where they awakened into life on this planet.

The bottom line is that nothing is going to change in this world until the “old paradigm religions” have been replaced by something better – by something that not only makes more sense than that which it is replacing,...

...but also helps to support the innate feeling that many of us have about the existence of a higher degree of wakefulness that awaits us after we have experienced a “second birth” via the process of death.
Agree with the general points of the above.

Whatever the replacement to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis, it must be FOOLPROOF from evilness.

The replacements also has to be gradual and progressive in alignment with correspondence changes of the relevant mental states, not immediate changes.
There are many photos of regimented school children in Victorian classrooms.

The powerful Kirk in 17th century Scotland actually punished people for blasphemy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Belinda wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:23 am There are many photos of regimented school children in Victorian classrooms.

The powerful Kirk in 17th century Scotland actually punished people for blasphemy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead
Your response is off topic.
I agree there are loads of evil ways in history and even at present in education and all aspects of life. All such evil must be addressed regardless of the sources.

But the topic of the OP is about violence and Muslims as believers of Islam.
The above is about how Muslims children are brainwashed with the evil ideology of Islam under various conditions [with tortures] including the ones in the picture above.

You mentioned "Victorian" classroom, note what is going on in UK with Muslim schools at present, here is video evidence;

Shame of Britain's Muslim schools: Secret filming shows pupils being beaten and 'taught Hindus drink cow p***'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eaten.html

It is because the lefts in UK [also US and Europe] which are Islamic-apologists that encourage and shield those evil prone Muslims in commit the above evil acts.
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:05 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:23 am There are many photos of regimented school children in Victorian classrooms.

The powerful Kirk in 17th century Scotland actually punished people for blasphemy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead
Your response is off topic.
I agree there are loads of evil ways in history and even at present in education and all aspects of life. All such evil must be addressed regardless of the sources.

But the topic of the OP is about violence and Muslims as believers of Islam.
The above is about how Muslims children are brainwashed with the evil ideology of Islam under various conditions [with tortures] including the ones in the picture above.

You mentioned "Victorian" classroom, note what is going on in UK with Muslim schools at present, here is video evidence;

Shame of Britain's Muslim schools: Secret filming shows pupils being beaten and 'taught Hindus drink cow p***'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eaten.html

It is because the lefts in UK [also US and Europe] which are Islamic-apologists that encourage and shield those evil prone Muslims in commit the above evil acts.
To be taken seriously you better not quote the Daily Mail.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Belinda wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:39 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:05 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:23 am There are many photos of regimented school children in Victorian classrooms.

The powerful Kirk in 17th century Scotland actually punished people for blasphemy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead
Your response is off topic.
I agree there are loads of evil ways in history and even at present in education and all aspects of life. All such evil must be addressed regardless of the sources.

But the topic of the OP is about violence and Muslims as believers of Islam.
The above is about how Muslims children are brainwashed with the evil ideology of Islam under various conditions [with tortures] including the ones in the picture above.

You mentioned "Victorian" classroom, note what is going on in UK with Muslim schools at present, here is video evidence;

Shame of Britain's Muslim schools: Secret filming shows pupils being beaten and 'taught Hindus drink cow p***'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eaten.html

It is because the lefts in UK [also US and Europe] which are Islamic-apologists that encourage and shield those evil prone Muslims in commit the above evil acts.
To be taken seriously you better not quote the Daily Mail.
It is the video that matters.
You suspect they made/invent the video themselves?
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:17 am
Belinda wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:39 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:05 am
Your response is off topic.
I agree there are loads of evil ways in history and even at present in education and all aspects of life. All such evil must be addressed regardless of the sources.

But the topic of the OP is about violence and Muslims as believers of Islam.
The above is about how Muslims children are brainwashed with the evil ideology of Islam under various conditions [with tortures] including the ones in the picture above.

You mentioned "Victorian" classroom, note what is going on in UK with Muslim schools at present, here is video evidence;

Shame of Britain's Muslim schools: Secret filming shows pupils being beaten and 'taught Hindus drink cow p***'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eaten.html

It is because the lefts in UK [also US and Europe] which are Islamic-apologists that encourage and shield those evil prone Muslims in commit the above evil acts.
To be taken seriously you better not quote the Daily Mail.
It is the video that matters.
You suspect they made/invent the video themselves?
The Daily Mail is biased towards fear of ethnic minorities. I do believe such curriculums and such teaching methods are bad for society, bad for individual children.I am not sure what is the best policy for bringing European Muslims into modern democratic society . France actively discourages religious separatism. UK has a softer method which tolerates madrassas if they obey certain rules. At least one of those rules is shown in the video being infringed. Personally I think the UK government is too soft on madrassas and the inspectorate should be more investigative.

As for the Koran, proper education especially in humanities such as history of ideas will enable Muslims to view the Koran as literature.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Belinda wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:13 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:17 am
Belinda wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:39 am
To be taken seriously you better not quote the Daily Mail.
It is the video that matters.
You suspect they made/invent the video themselves?
The Daily Mail is biased towards fear of ethnic minorities. I do believe such curriculums and such teaching methods are bad for society, bad for individual children.I am not sure what is the best policy for bringing European Muslims into modern democratic society . France actively discourages religious separatism. UK has a softer method which tolerates madrassas if they obey certain rules. At least one of those rules is shown in the video being infringed. Personally I think the UK government is too soft on madrassas and the inspectorate should be more investigative.

As for the Koran, proper education especially in humanities such as history of ideas will enable Muslims to view the Koran as literature.
My emphasis is not on the Daily Mail.

My point was to show that the inherently evil Islam influences Muslims to be violent in many aspects of life and the evil prone [minority 300 million] are likely to commit evil in the name of Allah as a religious duty.
Since Seed showed a pic of learning the Quran, I did a quick search for evidence there is violence even in the teaching of Quran. It is only from the daily mail, but there are loads of evidence to show there are violence on students in the teaching of Quran because the religious teacher is too zealous to please Allah and followed the commands of Allah.

Btw, at present there are no more Newspapers [Broadsheet or Tabloid] that are reliable anymore.
But the video that I showed is self-evident [less it can be proven it was fake].
Belinda
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Re: What causes muslims to be violent

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:51 am
Belinda wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:13 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:17 am
It is the video that matters.
You suspect they made/invent the video themselves?
The Daily Mail is biased towards fear of ethnic minorities. I do believe such curriculums and such teaching methods are bad for society, bad for individual children.I am not sure what is the best policy for bringing European Muslims into modern democratic society . France actively discourages religious separatism. UK has a softer method which tolerates madrassas if they obey certain rules. At least one of those rules is shown in the video being infringed. Personally I think the UK government is too soft on madrassas and the inspectorate should be more investigative.

As for the Koran, proper education especially in humanities such as history of ideas will enable Muslims to view the Koran as literature.
My emphasis is not on the Daily Mail.

My point was to show that the inherently evil Islam influences Muslims to be violent in many aspects of life and the evil prone [minority 300 million] are likely to commit evil in the name of Allah as a religious duty.
Since Seed showed a pic of learning the Quran, I did a quick search for evidence there is violence even in the teaching of Quran. It is only from the daily mail, but there are loads of evidence to show there are violence on students in the teaching of Quran because the religious teacher is too zealous to please Allah and followed the commands of Allah.

Btw, at present there are no more Newspapers [Broadsheet or Tabloid] that are reliable anymore.
But the video that I showed is self-evident [less it can be proven it was fake].
Yes, but what do you propose should be done by Europeanised societies to stop Koran based violence?
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