Pre-existing order such as you believe in, Seeds, may be the truth. However we cannot know there is pre-existing order. It is better to humbly try to make order for ourselves with what abilities we have. These abilities may be summed up as science and reason. Reason includes empathy and sympathy without which the individual is unreasoning.seeds wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:45 pmBelinda wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:49 am Seeds wrote:
...could have popped out of his mother’s womb sporting an “appetizing vagina,” what does that suggest about the deeper truth of the ontology of gender itself?
I’ll tell you what it suggests.
It suggests that whatever our true and ultimate form actually is,...
(sans the penises and vaginas that will be left behind upon exiting these bodies via death)
...it will be something that is genderless and far more wondrous than the useless and purposeless (non-evolving) forms suggested in Islam, or any other world religion.
_______Yes it does, B, and it could indeed be wishful thinking.
However, I personally feel that even if it’s wrong, it is nevertheless far more preferable than presupposing (like you do) the equally questionable notion that life is basically meaningless (at least in terms of there being no ultimate or eternal purpose for us as individuals).
Why are you so hell-bent on embracing (almost worshiping) nihilism, B?
Is it because you have already experienced a long and rich life and have lost the capacity to view the world from the perspective of, for example, a child with a terminal illness who is filled with the hope that her life will not end with the death of her body in a few days?
Why are you so determined to take her hope away?
Well, if we look at this from the perspective of a Berkeleyan form of Panentheistic idealism,...
(which, admittedly, could be nonsense like any other concept of God)
...then if the entire universe is indeed the MIND of God, then of course literally everything within its bounds is going to exist in the form of an “idea” within the mind of God.
So no surprise there.
However, the whole point of my own particular theory is that God has been able to fashion his ideas in such a way as to cause his own life essence...
(which is imbued within the fabric of his ideas – imbued within the fabric of human brains)
...to individuate and emerge as a complete and autonomous (familial) replication of himself - as is depicted in yet another of my oft-used illustrations...
In other words, what I am suggesting is that just like any other self-replicating lifeform, God has been able to conceive a complete replication of his “I AM-ness” (i.e., a replication of his own personal agency and potential) that, following the event of death, can (and will) exist independent of himself...
(metaphorically similar to the way that we now exist independent of our mother and her womb)
...in a higher context of reality that exists above and outside of the cosmic “womb” of his mind and universe.
For what it’s worth, it should be obvious that the concept I am promoting is absolutely drenched in “natural” metaphors.
I thought that I had made it quite clear that any expectation of everlasting “orgasmic bliss” in the form of “eternal erections” and harems of female sex slaves with “appetizing vaginas”...
...is pure and utter nonsense.
Well, perhaps you should take that up with Averroes, because based on this statement from him,...
...he seems to lean toward the “eternal erection” concept of the Hereafter.
Besides, it’s not just Muslims who believe in a useless and non-evolving “peel me a grape” state of purposelessness in the afterlife, for Christians seem to bank on something pretty similar.
And likewise, when it comes to visualizing the Hindu/Buddhist concept of the afterlife, I defy you (or anyone else) to come up with something other than the image of someone sitting in the lotus position and eternally contemplating their naval.
How many times do I have to point out to you, B, that the post Darwinian state of scientific knowledge in no way, shape, or form gives us the slightest clue as to how the pre-existing order...
(again, the unfathomable order that had to be in place before evolution could even commence)
...came into existence?
B, you need to abandon your blind and trusting assumption that the theory of evolution somehow resolves the mystery of reality, for nothing could be further from the truth.
________
I'd certainly not talk like this to someone who needs reassurance and hope. If that person already believed in a happy afterlife and divine Providence, I'd not argue but I would agree with them. There are many times when being sociably tolerant are more important than sceptical intellectual discussions.
I am not sure what a nihilist is. I do believe something. I believe in human potential to evolve and that it is the intention to be good and true that matters, not believing that goodness and truth have been identified once and for all.
The afterlife virgins promise is like other descriptions of eternal bliss; literal nonsense that however makes sense as an attempt to describe ecstasy as loss of ego self.It is regrettable so few people can appreciate allegories and metaphors.
Species are not fixed and can and do evolve when environments demand they evolve. I hope Xianity is able to retain its moral message while accommodating the transient nature of species including the human species.