Was Judas the first Liberal?

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Nick_A
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Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by Nick_A »

John 12

12 Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. 2 Here a dinner was given in Jesus’ honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. 3 Then Mary took about a pint[a] of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.

4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

7 “Leave her alone,” Jesus replied. “It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8 You will always have the poor among you,[c] but you will not always have me.”
Was Jesus being horribly egotistical while insulting the poor or is there more to the story often overlooked?
Nick_A
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by Nick_A »

Nick_A wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:56 pm
John 12

12 Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. 2 Here a dinner was given in Jesus’ honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. 3 Then Mary took about a pint[a] of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.

4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

7 “Leave her alone,” Jesus replied. “It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8 You will always have the poor among you,[c] but you will not always have me.”
Was Jesus being horribly egotistical while insulting the poor or is there more to the story often overlooked?
What! Why hasn't Judas become the darling for liberals? He wanted to spread the wealth around while keeping some for himself for "administrative expenses." But Mary wasted it and poured the nard on Jesus feet who was soon to be crucified

In Matthew 26 Mary poured the nard on Jesus head while John describes pouring it on Jesus feet. Is this just an ignorant mistake or is there something more to it.
6 While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of Simon the Leper, 7 a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table.

8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. 9 “This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.”

10 Aware of this, Jesus said to them, “Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me. 12 When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. 13 Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
So if Judas was the first liberal willing to spread the wealth around.he should be celebrated by the media needing a new hero.
gaffo
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by gaffo »

I think maybe Judas was the first conservative,

he did sellout his friend for 15 pieces of silver did he not?
Nick_A
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by Nick_A »

gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:59 am I think maybe Judas was the first conservative,

he did sellout his friend for 15 pieces of silver did he not?
The goal of the liberal is to achieve quality through equality making everything the same. The conservative strives to preserve quality appreciating the benefits of differences. Judas wanted to spread the wealth around while Mary chose to give her quality for Jesus passing. The quality of being is meaningless for the liberal yet everything for the conservative.

Of course what people say is one thing and what they do is another. Sameness may believe sameness is an admirable quality for everyone else but not for the one whose belief in the superiority of their intellect must be conserved.
gaffo
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by gaffo »

Nick_A wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:07 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:59 am I think maybe Judas was the first conservative,

he did sellout his friend for 15 pieces of silver did he not?
The goal of the liberal is to achieve quality through equality making everything the same. The conservative strives to preserve quality appreciating the benefits of differences.
Conservatives value their master greed, and since Judas sold out his best friend for some coin, he showed himself to be a Conservative.
Nick_A
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by Nick_A »

gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:28 pm
Nick_A wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:07 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:59 am I think maybe Judas was the first conservative,

he did sellout his friend for 15 pieces of silver did he not?
The goal of the liberal is to achieve quality through equality making everything the same. The conservative strives to preserve quality appreciating the benefits of differences.
Conservatives value their master greed, and since Judas sold out his best friend for some coin, he showed himself to be a Conservative.
From the OP: "8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. 9 “This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.”

The Bible clearly states that Judas motive wasn't greed but rather a misguided liberal attitude of giving money to the poor for the appearance of doing something noble while taking a little for himself. Of course the idea of "taking a little for himself" spread like wildfire and liberal hypocrisy manifesting as greed is very popular today.
gaffo
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by gaffo »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:22 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:28 pm
Nick_A wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:07 pm

The goal of the liberal is to achieve quality through equality making everything the same. The conservative strives to preserve quality appreciating the benefits of differences.
Conservatives value their master greed, and since Judas sold out his best friend for some coin, he showed himself to be a Conservative.
From the OP: "8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. 9 “This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.”

The Bible clearly states that Judas motive wasn't greed but rather a misguided liberal attitude of giving money to the poor for the appearance of doing something noble while taking a little for himself. Of course the idea of "taking a little for himself" spread like wildfire and liberal hypocrisy manifesting as greed is very popular today.
bullshit - you have evidence that Judas gave the coin he got out of selling out his friend - to the poor.


no you don't so shut up. you have an "Anti-liberal" bias than think Judas was a liberal.

i showed you he was like you a Constervative - hording coin and selling out your best friend for coin.

get lost.
Nick_A
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by Nick_A »

gaffo wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:59 am
Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:22 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:28 pm

Conservatives value their master greed, and since Judas sold out his best friend for some coin, he showed himself to be a Conservative.
From the OP: "8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. 9 “This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.”

The Bible clearly states that Judas motive wasn't greed but rather a misguided liberal attitude of giving money to the poor for the appearance of doing something noble while taking a little for himself. Of course the idea of "taking a little for himself" spread like wildfire and liberal hypocrisy manifesting as greed is very popular today.
bullshit - you have evidence that Judas gave the coin he got out of selling out his friend - to the poor.


no you don't so shut up. you have an "Anti-liberal" bias than think Judas was a liberal.

i showed you he was like you a Constervative - hording coin and selling out your best friend for coin.

get lost.

This is what happens when you come up with the wrong answer in progressive education. Is it really surprising that so many of the young become pro marxist radicals?. It is even more surprising to me that parents spend good money to send their offspring to these institutions of child abuse.
gaffo
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by gaffo »

Nick_A wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:35 am
gaffo wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:59 am
Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:22 am

From the OP: "8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. 9 “This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.”

The Bible clearly states that Judas motive wasn't greed but rather a misguided liberal attitude of giving money to the poor for the appearance of doing something noble while taking a little for himself. Of course the idea of "taking a little for himself" spread like wildfire and liberal hypocrisy manifesting as greed is very popular today.
bullshit - you have evidence that Judas gave the coin he got out of selling out his friend - to the poor.


no you don't so shut up. you have an "Anti-liberal" bias than think Judas was a liberal.

i showed you he was like you a Constervative - hording coin and selling out your best friend for coin.

get lost.

This is what happens when you come up with the wrong answer in progressive education. Is it really surprising that so many of the young become pro marxist radicals?. It is even more surprising to me that parents spend good money to send their offspring to these institutions of child abuse.
yes marxism is bad kids.

just say no.
Nick_A
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by Nick_A »

gaffo wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:41 am
Nick_A wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:35 am
gaffo wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:59 am

bullshit - you have evidence that Judas gave the coin he got out of selling out his friend - to the poor.


no you don't so shut up. you have an "Anti-liberal" bias than think Judas was a liberal.

i showed you he was like you a Constervative - hording coin and selling out your best friend for coin.

get lost.

This is what happens when you come up with the wrong answer in progressive education. Is it really surprising that so many of the young become pro marxist radicals?. It is even more surprising to me that parents spend good money to send their offspring to these institutions of child abuse.
yes marxism is bad kids.

just say no.
You seem to believe that the path to truth is decided by those with the ability to condemn the loudest. Verification has become obsolete in favor of expressing secular intolerance through loud condemnation. It is the way of progressive education.

BLM has proved how many buildings and statues can be destroyed and justified so quickly. That's modern progress.
gaffo
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by gaffo »

Nick_A wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:05 am
gaffo wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:41 am
Nick_A wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:35 am


This is what happens when you come up with the wrong answer in progressive education. Is it really surprising that so many of the young become pro marxist radicals?. It is even more surprising to me that parents spend good money to send their offspring to these institutions of child abuse.
yes marxism is bad kids.

just say no.
You seem to believe that the path to truth is decided by those with the ability to condemn the loudest. Verification has become obsolete in favor of expressing secular intolerance through loud condemnation. It is the way of progressive education.

BLM has proved how many buildings and statues can be destroyed and justified so quickly. That's modern progress.
whatever,

I'm an old school 70's Liberal, not a Progressive. Nor a rich top 1-percenter Reichbuglicon either.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

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gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:59 am I think maybe Judas was the first conservative,

he did sellout his friend for 15 pieces of silver did he not?
No.

Jesus wanted to test the messianic prophesy and enlisted his best friend and favored disciple to help him test the prophesy.

Jesus failed it as he did not return to rule.

Regards
DL
gaffo
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by gaffo »

Greatest I am wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:04 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:59 am I think maybe Judas was the first conservative,

he did sellout his friend for 15 pieces of silver did he not?
No.

Jesus wanted to test the messianic prophesy and enlisted his best friend and favored disciple to help him test the prophesy.

Jesus failed it as he did not return to rule.

Regards
DL
interesting perspective, not thought of it that way, but a valid theology i quess.

i have never read the Gospel of Judas, have you?

does it share your view?

curious.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by Greatest I am »

gaffo wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:08 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:04 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:59 am I think maybe Judas was the first conservative,

he did sellout his friend for 15 pieces of silver did he not?
No.

Jesus wanted to test the messianic prophesy and enlisted his best friend and favored disciple to help him test the prophesy.

Jesus failed it as he did not return to rule.

Regards
DL
interesting perspective, not thought of it that way, but a valid theology i quess.

i have never read the Gospel of Judas, have you?

does it share your view?

curious.
Basically, yes, bur Christians do not accept that view.

I base my views more on the bible and reading of the last super.

It clearly shows, thanks to the tradition of offering a sop to ones best friend and confidant, that Jesus chose one Judas to help Jesus test the messianic myth. Jesus, I guess, did not think the others had the balls to do the hard thing.

Christians seem to prefer to think that Jesus was not a decent judge of character and screwed up on his selection of apostles.

They show their lack of faith.

https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdn/s/sop.html
Jesus, as the host at the Last Supper, would hand this sop, first of all, to Judas, who is supposed to have occupied the place of chief honour at the table

From the dictionary.

Sop
2: a conciliatory or propitiatory bribe, gift, or gesture

Jesus was thanking Judas in advance and choosing him at the same time to do the work required.

Regards
DL
Nick_A
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Re: Was Judas the first Liberal?

Post by Nick_A »

“Knowledge has three degrees – opinion, science, illumination. The means or instrument of the first is sense; of the second, dialectic; of the third, intuition.”
— Plotinus
Jesus purpose for coming to the was to provide a path leading to the way of rebirth made possible by the resurrection and for others to follow. The only mind incapable of being reborn is the literal mind. Judas lived by the literal mind or the duality of the dialectic. Judas couldn't understand Jesus purpose. That is why he objected to what he viewed as wasting value by pouring the perfume on Jesus instead of selling it and giving the money to the poor.

Judas was skilled in the ways of the world and was able to allow Jesus to be taken as was the intent. But being limited to the dialectic he was closed to higher mind so missed his opportunity to follow the path leading to the way. Judas sacrifice provided the means for the world to learn of Jesus' purpose. The question of the thread is what the literal mind represented here as the liberal mind if it does exist, is capable of opening to higher mind.
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