But WHY 'undo any thing'? The past is to be LEARNED FROM, NOT just erased.seeds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 amDoesn’t it seem as though we may be in the midst (or at least at the beginning stages) of a “great undoing” at this very moment?Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:05 pm I agree. I am not sure, however, that most religions and their followers can be free enough from their stories and the payoffs of those stories -- to be clear and present enough to create/understand a new/different paradigm -- unless there is some kind of great undoing (and resulting awakening) to help them let go of what they're locked onto.
If you were to just undo the past wrongs, then HOW are you going to Truly LEARN HOW to become better people and human beings?
It is the actual MISTAKES, which human beings have done and ARE making that NEED to be LOOKED AT and LEARNED FROM. Also, if your want to replace an old paradigm, and you have NOT YET be successfully able to, then that might suggest that your "new" one is NOT one that is True and Right, and thus NOT agreed with and accepted by EVERY one. Obviously, only ONE that is accepted and agreed with by EVERY one is thee only ONE that could do the 'replacing'.
Well if you learn HOW to express it clearly and succinctly, in very simple and very easy terms so that it is Truly understood, then there will OBVIOUSLY be NO confusion NOR chaos at all.
Also, if the so called "new" paradigm is one that ALL agree with AND accept, then there will be NO "blurry film" at all either.
Do you have a "new" paradigm, which you would like to share with us?
If yes, then will you share it here, in this forum, now?
I think you will find that your view about the majority of humans were so preoccupied with the mere process of survival that that simply did not have to the time (or for any other reason) to develop their own theories regarding creation will be incorrect. But, considering I have absolutely NO idea the length of period you are referring to when you use the word 'humans', nor have any idea how you came to such a conclusion, that a fair bit of clarifying questioning would be need for you to be able to back up and support this claim of yours. Are you willing for this challenge?seeds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 amseeds wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:18 pm ...it seems obvious that most humans are the victims of the result of that which is foisted upon them due to the incessant indoctrination (brainwashing) they receive from the moment of birth – all of which is dependent upon when and where they awakened into life on the surface of this flying orb.It’s not only that (and I’m not implying that it’s much different now), but until modern times, the majority of humans on earth were so preoccupied with the mere process of survival that they simply didn’t have the time (or the education, or the inclination) to develop their own theories regarding creation, or to question the authority of the “powers that be” and risk being an outcast.
By the way, to catch, hunt, and/or gather a meal only takes a few or so hours, which could last a day or more, and before the invent of printing presses, televisions, computers, and internet, then what I think you might find is human beings had FAR MORE time to just sit around dreaming up and telling stories, including ones about creation, itself, than human beings have the time to now to think about creation, itself, in the days when this is being written. Human beings, in the days of when this is written, have FAR LESS time to just think and wonder as they spend almost all of their waking moments in their pursuit of doing what it takes in order to gain MORE and MORE money, so that they can spend it at any time they have left after wasting countless hours looking at whatever they use to gather the completely unnecessary information, which they seem to not be able to get enough of.
Just like the "established religion" in the region where you were born and mostly are is more likely to just be the source of "media", which you 'go-to'.
Depending on how one defines and uses the word 'religion' will then effect how and what light they SEE 'religion' IN.seeds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 am The atheists knock religion, but the problem is that most humans have a conscience that oftentimes needs a means by which genuine (and painful) feelings of guilt (for whatever reason) can be softened or eliminated. In which case, religions (even though flawed and founded upon dubious origins) clearly provide that vital service to humans.
How one defines and uses the words they do is solely based on and depended upon what circumstances that they found themselves brought up in.
What do you mean?
The people who I see the most distressed are the ones at funerals and/or when at their deathbeds. It is like 'you', human beings, were under some sort of illusion that you were going to live forever, without absolutely NO understanding at all of what actually HAPPENS.
Also, the ones who are the most distressed at funerals appear to be the ones who feel the most saddened by what they, themselves, have LOST. Once again, they appear to be crying for them 'self' only, from what they have lost and will miss out on. Again, this overarching sense of one's self is at the center of it ALL, and so they are saddened for them, and them 'self' only. Otherwise what are they actually sadden for and crying about EXACTLY?
And do NOT forget that 'you' are just one of those "other" human beings, who is still just an amoeba in relation to Intelligence, which talks to 'you'.seeds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 amYes, and you are talking about millions of humans across the U.S.
Indeed, you have just highlighted (in what I bolded above) the near impossibility of reasoning with groups of humans who walk through life in an even deeper state of somnambulism than the rest of us.
'you', the human being, in the days of when this is being written, is just like the ape is, in regards to understanding and comprehending what a human being says to it. An ape does NOT fully understand and comprehending what the human being says, just like human beings, in the days of when this is being written, do NOT fully understand and comprehend what Intelligence is saying to 'you'.
I mean, 'you', human beings, are NOT YET ever OPEN (or awake) enough to recognize the glaringly OBVIOUS things that 'I' have been telling 'you'. But, to Me, WHY this is so is ALREADY KNOWN, and is Truly understandable. This is thee WAY things EVOLVE.
I just suggest that you have thee FULL and ACCURATE information, just in case you ever put yourself out there to be questioned and/or challenged. Do you feel that you would be READY to be FULLY questioned and/or challenged?seeds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 am (a wolf that doesn’t even bother to wear the head part of his sheep costume )
...then any attempt to awaken them into higher levels of metaphysical understanding is a fool’s errand.
(Though we must keep trying in the hope that a “seed” of information may one day sprout and blossom.)
GREAT, this is one of the first steps to gaining True understanding.seeds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 amseeds wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:18 pm Furthermore, even though you and I are being highly critical and scornful of the absurdity of what I tried to point out in the OP, we must also try to be more understanding of how difficult it is for the average person to break-free and rise above their initial “brainwashing.”That’s a great story, Lacewing, thanks for that.Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:05 pm I think I understand to a certain degree: I remember the turmoil I went through myself when realizing that everything I had been so sure of, was wrong or untrue. I remember the utter terror! I remember the existential threat to my ego and identity. But I simply could not "unsee" or go back... as much as I wanted to... when I realized there was a much larger "universe" of thought/potential than what I'd believed there was. I realized that my ego and my belief had been barriers to greater truth, so I needed to tell them to take a back seat -- and I became hungry for more and new information to learn about a broader landscape. I discovered a BOUNTY of information all around -- I only needed to be open to notice it...
And I too experienced a similar awakening to the realization of a larger universe.
However, instead of it being an awakening emerging from turmoil,...
(and with the help of a powerful entheogenic substance, along with what seemed to be a perfectly timed delivery of news regarding the death of a loved one)
...mine was spectacularly wonderful, for it felt like a window had opened between the material world and the spiritual world – a window that (in time) allowed me to peer into what (I think) awaits us on the other side of the proverbial “veil.”
(Btw, I’m not so lost in my beliefs that I am beyond realizing that I could be wrong.)
But would you like to start to express what you think awaits us on the, so called, "other side"?
If yes, then great, what do you think awaits 'you', human beings, on the so called "other side"?
Why not just use the actual concepts that fit in logically and perfectly with what IS actually thee Truth of things?seeds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 amseeds wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:18 pm And lastly, Lacewing, if we simply approach this as if we were some kind of demolition crew armed with wrecking balls and sawzalls to destroy all of the old religious edifices that billions of humans desperately rely on for hope and comfort; a destruction carried out without any plans or blueprints in hand for the erection of something new and more logical to replace those edifices...
...then we are no better than the angry and snarling hardcore atheists who only offer pure and empty nihilism in the wake of their attacks on religion.Alluding back to my earlier comment on how the majority of people on earth simply do not have the time, or the inclination, or the mental wherewithal (consider the Trump crowd, for example) to explore the mysteries of reality, then the creation of new and formalized spiritual edifices...
(i.e., new spiritual concepts that, hopefully, are much more logical than the ones being replaced)
...are still going to be something that humans continue to rely on.
WHY just make up a whole new set of concepts, which could be just as FALSE and WRONG as the old ones were anyway?
Or, when you LEARN and gain True understanding, itself, and then you will learn HOW to SEE what is actually True and Right from what is actually False and Wrong in the old concepts.
Just curious, are you actually ABLE TO explain HOW the "old" paradigm/concepts of hell, demons, and realms of eternal torture that the occupants are supposedly perfectly fine with is NOT the True, Right, and correct paradigm/concept?seeds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 am And even though they (the new concepts) may still fall short of the ultimate truth, as long as they can replace the old paradigm nonsense of Hells, and demons, and realms of eternal torture that the occupants of Heaven are perfectly fine with, then it will be a step in the right direction.
If you, then please go ahead and do it.
I also would like to hear more of your thoughts, especially in regards to which ones EXACTLY of the "old" concepts are False and Wrong, and HOW and WHY those "old" concepts are actually False and Wrong, and HOW you actually KNOW this. I would also love to hear your thoughts about what EXACTLY are the "new" concepts, and HOW and WHY your "new" concepts are actually True and Right.