Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

[Dontaskme]

And other than creating a lot of wind while exhibiting the depth and degree of one’s insanity, it’s highly unlikely that any of us in this forum (this asylum rec room) ever achieves anything that we set out to achieve.

But why would anyone want to create more insanity upon this philosophy forum where the nut cases are in control of setting out to achieve something. If logical, sane individuals really do exist, then he or she will be under the control of the fruit loops. So what to do about it, or we could just all shut the fuck up, could we not.

.

[Sculptor]

The “real” Hell, on the other hand (at least from the Christian/Islamic perspective), is simply a mythological fantasy devised by humans to frighten other humans into accepting a particular (money generating) remedy for avoiding it.

Thanks for answering my question. However I did not ask you.

Yes, I understand that you were asking Age/ken (aka, the “Hintman” – see this post, here - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29689&start=60#p461532), which is why I warned that any hope of pinning him down for a unambiguous answer to pretty much anything whatsoever, is a waste of time.

Keep in mind that when you are talking to the “Hintman,” you are actually talking to a channeled entity who stated that he (or it, or whatever) is using the human called Age/ken to convey information to the world in the same way he says he used ancient humans to produce the Bible. See the following quote:

“...This impatience comes out and through the one, which I am using, who is writing this. This is a bit like how the ones, I used who wrote the bible, misinterpreted what I was actually trans and in spiring to them, which obviously has caused a lot of confusion. Now I found another human being who I can use to share things...”

You can see that quote in its proper context in the post that the above link will take you to.

And given your answer I am puzzled that you started the thread. I suppose you were hoping to lay an elephant trap for unsuspecting theists???

The main purpose of the thread is to force people to look deeper into exactly what it is they believe.

In which case, if it is a trap to point out the dark and twisted implications of a belief system, then so be it.

For what it is worth I agree with your summation.
And think it pretty finny that the closet theists on the forum have been too scared to define hell themselves.
I hope you have achieved what you set out to achieve with this thread.
LOL

Thank you, Sculptor.

And other than creating a lot of wind while exhibiting the depth and degree of one’s insanity, it’s highly unlikely that any of us in this forum (this asylum rec room) ever achieves anything that we set out to achieve.
_______

I suppose so.
I'm happy with a longer post I made yesterday about the difference between "amoral" and "immoral"; and between Darwin's concepts of Domestic Selection against Natural Selection.
Sadly the target was Skeptic who lost no time attacking from a position of ignorance and accused me of "special pleading".
Though we may disagree, there seems to be a core of contributors who are generally receptive to the ideas of others, and we all know the ones that tend to stick to their false idols.

[Age]

If NONE of 'this' had ANY thing to do with "Hell", then NONE of this had ANY thing to do with "Hell". That is MY answer.

I am also asking you; why are you completely incapable of answering ANY questions?

I am NOT completely incapable of answering ANY question. If you provide the question/s, which you propose I have NOT answered or are NOT capable of answering, then I will answer them.

So what the fuck is hell?

'hell' is just NOT living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

'Heaven' is just the opposite, that is; living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

Obviously, 'you', human beings, have NOT reached the latter one YET. But this is only because 'you' have NOT YET learned HOW TO.

[attofishpi]

Now I realize that there aren’t many Christians or Muslims participating in this forum, nevertheless, perhaps some lurkers might chime in.

The question I am going to pose by way of a thought experiment is primarily based on the Christian belief that many (indeed, most) humans are going to end up in a literal hell of torture and suffering after death.

I am a Christian. Where in the bible does it state you must first die to enter hell or heaven?

With that in mind, the question is: would you, Christian or Muslim,...
(or anyone else who believes in the existence of the heaven/hell scenario)

...be willing to relinquish your eternal life of bliss in heaven if - by reason of some kind of divine law - it would extricate a loved one from an eternity of torture in hell?

In other words,...

(at least in terms of this hypothetical situation)

...if you understood that your sacrifice would forever erase you and your loved one from the “Book Of Life,” would you be willing to do that if it would end the eternal suffering of someone dear to you?

Absolutely I would.

While we are on hypothetical mode, would ANYONE, atheists included - that found themselves faced with the same quandary?

Philosophically speaking, can heaven truly exist for ANYONE in consideration that so much suffering remains - not even including 'hell'?

[Age]

_______

It’s a madhouse – A MADHOUSE I TELL YOU !!!.....no, not hell, this forum – a place where all of us patients gather in its rec room to participate in the group therapy process that reveals to each other (and the world) our own particular form of insanity.

(Unfortunately, some of us keep forgetting to take our meds.)

The “real” Hell, on the other hand (at least from the Christian/Islamic perspective), is simply a mythological fantasy devised by humans to frighten other humans into accepting a particular (money generating) remedy for avoiding it.

So, is this "real" 'Hell REALLY what you say and believe 'it' is?

Or, is it possible that you have been taught a misinterpreted and/or misconstrued version of 'Hell', and so OF COURSE that misinterpreted and/or misconstrued version of 'Hell' would appear to be a mythological fantasy?

Also, could it be possible that the "real" Hell from the religious perspective actually be the True, Right, and Correct version, but you are just NOT YET OPEN enough at all to let anyone SHOW you HOW that Hell actually IS the True, Right, Correct AND REAL One?

(Btw, if anyone here is expecting a straight answer from the “Hintman,” it ain't gonna happen.)
_______

As I have said and explained many times previously; If anyone wants me to provide them with actual specific answers, then JUST ask me actual specific questions.

[Age]

The “real” Hell, on the other hand (at least from the Christian/Islamic perspective), is simply a mythological fantasy devised by humans to frighten other humans into accepting a particular (money generating) remedy for avoiding it.

Thanks for answering my question. However I did not ask you.

Yes, I understand that you were asking Age/ken (aka, the “Hintman” – see this post, here - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29689&start=60#p461532), which is why I warned that any hope of pinning him down for a unambiguous answer to pretty much anything whatsoever, is a waste of time.

How many times do I have to say that I am NOT here in this forum to say EVERY thing that I want to say? To be able to get to unambiguous, irrefutable answers there needs to be a fair amount of "ground work" done in explaining the definitions of words being used, the meanings behind those definitions, and just EXACTLY how the views were formed, which FILL in the big picture, PERFECTLY. I have ALSO explained this forum is CERTAINLY NOT for ALL-OF-THAT.

I have continually said that I am here, in this forum, to LEARN HOW TO communicate better, and NOT to communicate FULLY.

Keep in mind that when you are talking to the “Hintman,” you are actually talking to a channeled entity who stated that he (or it, or whatever) is using the human called Age/ken to convey information to the world in the same way he says he used ancient humans to produce the Bible. See the following quote:

“...This impatience comes out and through the one, which I am using, who is writing this. This is a bit like how the ones, I used who wrote the bible, misinterpreted what I was actually trans and in spiring to them, which obviously has caused a lot of confusion. Now I found another human being who I can use to share things...”

You can see that quote in its proper context in the post that the above link will take you to.

AND, you can see my reply to that post three posts after, that is; IF any one is interested.

And given your answer I am puzzled that you started the thread. I suppose you were hoping to lay an elephant trap for unsuspecting theists???

The main purpose of the thread is to force people to look deeper into exactly what it is they believe.

In which case, if it is a trap to point out the dark and twisted implications of a belief system, then so be it.

If it was a trap to point out the dark and twisted implication of a belief system, then it surely WORKED.

Remember, believing some thing is NOT true is just as STRONG and FIXED as believing some thing IS true. A DISBELIEF in some thing can produce the EXACT SAME dark, distorted, and twisted results as a BELIEF in some thing CAN and DOES.

'you', "seeds", have SURELY SHOWN just how STRONG and FIXED your DISBELIEF in some thing IS.

Also, have 'you', "yourself", actually looked deep into exactly what it is that 'you' BELIEVE?

If you had, then you would get rid of that BELIEF.

For what it is worth I agree with your summation.
And think it pretty finny that the closet theists on the forum have been too scared to define hell themselves.
I hope you have achieved what you set out to achieve with this thread.
LOL

Thank you, Sculptor.

And other than creating a lot of wind while exhibiting the depth and degree of one’s insanity, it’s highly unlikely that any of us in this forum (this asylum rec room) ever achieves anything that we set out to achieve.
_______

SOME have ABSOLUTELY NO intention of achieving, what it is that they want to end up achieving, in this forum. In fact, this forum would be last place I would suggest to ANY one to come to to 'try' and get their views across to "another".

[Sculptor]

If NONE of 'this' had ANY thing to do with "Hell", then NONE of this had ANY thing to do with "Hell". That is MY answer.




I am NOT completely incapable of answering ANY question. If you provide the question/s, which you propose I have NOT answered or are NOT capable of answering, then I will answer them.

So what the fuck is hell?

'hell' is just NOT living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

'Heaven' is just the opposite, that is; living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

Obviously, 'you', human beings, have NOT reached the latter one YET. But this is only because 'you' have NOT YET learned HOW TO.

SO you are saying that heaven in hell are in the here and now?
Is that right?
Why are you using heaven and hell to describe this ideal states?

[Dontaskme]

'hell' is just NOT living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

'Heaven' is just the opposite, that is; living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

Obviously, 'you', human beings, have NOT reached the latter one YET. But this is only because 'you' have NOT YET learned HOW TO.

What you are 'suggesting' here, if that's the right word.. is just Not possible.

You are bascially saying that until every human being learns how to live harmoniously and peacefully together as one human family then heaven on earth will never be an experience.

Well guess what, there is no such thing as heaven on earth, that's just a made up idea that is born of the mind that doesn't actually exist anywhere in reality.. and so that is why you will continue to cling to your deluded assumed beliefs that you accuse others of having while denying yours...reality check, heaven and hell DO NOT exist, except as fantasy, myth, and or of pure imagination within the empty perceiving mind.

Age, you really DO NOT HAVE ANY true understanding of NONDUALITY whatsoever...but despair not, for YOU are not ALONE.

Any such identification with ones thoughts and ideas such as heaven and hell existing for the human being believed to be true and real... is 100% proof you really DO NOT have any understanding of the Nondual nature of reality. You will not like being told that, but so be it.

And is why you will continue to spout the most laughable load of totally pure baloney known to man here on this forum forever and ever until you die, never really knowing what an unuseful idiot you really are, but despair not, you are not alone.


So,good luck with the futile exercise of needing to fix what is, was, and never has ever been broken, except what is inside your own believed assuming believing brain.

You have still got a long way to go before reaching your true self, good luck with the seeking though, you're going to need it.

I will continue to point out all your flaws until the day I die...while you continue to revel in them.

.

[Gary Childress]

If NONE of 'this' had ANY thing to do with "Hell", then NONE of this had ANY thing to do with "Hell". That is MY answer.




I am NOT completely incapable of answering ANY question. If you provide the question/s, which you propose I have NOT answered or are NOT capable of answering, then I will answer them.

So what the fuck is hell?

'hell' is just NOT living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

'Heaven' is just the opposite, that is; living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

Obviously, 'you', human beings, have NOT reached the latter one YET. But this is only because 'you' have NOT YET learned HOW TO.

It seems that only in a philosophy forum do some people address others as "you human beings". There must be space aliens or something among us.

[seeds]

I am a Christian. Where in the bible does it state you must first die to enter hell or heaven?

First, let’s look at what Wiki has to say about Hell (underlining mine):

In religion and folklore, Hell is an afterlife location in which evil souls are subjected to punitive suffering, often torture as eternal punishment after death. Religions with a linear divine history often depict hells as eternal destinations, the biggest examples of which are Christianity and Islam...

Now from the Biblical perspective, I think that the general idea of heaven and hell coming after death comes from verses like these...

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

...And from the assertion of an alleged “Final Judgment” that comes only after death:

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels...

Now just in case you are trying to make the point that some horrible situation one might experience while on earth can be described as hellish in nature, then we’re not talking about the same thing.

With that in mind, the question is: would you, Christian or Muslim,...

(or anyone else who believes in the existence of the heaven/hell scenario)

...be willing to relinquish your eternal life of bliss in heaven if - by reason of some kind of divine law - it would extricate a loved one from an eternity of torture in hell?

In other words,...

(at least in terms of this hypothetical situation)

...if you understood that your sacrifice would forever erase you and your loved one from the “Book Of Life,” would you be willing to do that if it would end the eternal suffering of someone dear to you?

Absolutely I would.

Good on you, atto, you have given the answer that I was hoping to see.

It is a simple, pure, and unhesitant response that (in my opinion) a truly loving person would give.

Thank you for courageously demonstrating precisely what all those who claim to be a “Christian” should be demonstrating.

While we are on hypothetical mode, would ANYONE, atheists included - that found themselves faced with the same quandary?

Needless to say, atheists/materialists would no doubt exempt themselves from this hypothetical situation.

Philosophically speaking, can heaven truly exist for ANYONE in consideration that so much suffering remains - not even including 'hell'?

I don’t quite understand that question. Can you please clarify it?
_______

[attofishpi]

I am a Christian. Where in the bible does it state you must first die to enter hell or heaven?

First, let’s look at what Wiki has to say about Hell (underlining mine):

No let's not bother. Priests have no clue so I am certain wiki doesn't.

Now from the Biblical perspective, I think that the general idea of heaven and hell coming after death comes from verses like these...

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

...And from the assertion of an alleged “Final Judgment” that comes only after death:

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels...

Nothing in the above states death is required first, you are being rather wiki about this.

Now just in case you are trying to make the point that some horrible situation one might experience while on earth can be described as hellish in nature, then we’re not talking about the same thing.

Well, it depends. If God is torturing you, as it did with me, usually for 3 month stints. Indeed, when it tortures you to the point where you suicide, and unfortunately wake up in bed the next morning wondering whether indeed, you are still WHERE? HELL.

While we are on hypothetical mode, would ANYONE, atheists included - that found themselves faced with the same quandary?

Needless to say, atheists/materialists would no doubt exempt themselves from this hypothetical situation.

Ridiculous - are we talking about a hypathetical, or a hypothetical?

Philosophically speaking, can heaven truly exist for ANYONE in consideration that so much suffering remains - not even including 'hell'?

I don’t quite understand that question. Can you please clarify it?

Sure. My sage/God informed me some time ago I am in heaven. I recently had shitloads of money deposited into my bank, my house is paid off...i never have to work again. They occasionally state - 'do art'. Indeed, who ARTS in HEAVEN - me apparently.

When I just awoke this morning, they started on me as they do every night/morning - (something really nice, pretty awesome actually.) But I told them to fuck off...
Fuck heaven fuck everything. I called God and Christ a pair of betraying jew ***s. How can I be in heaven when my mother has been betrayed by them, who has late stage Parkinsons, indeed is in great pain for most of the day & night.

Hope that clarifies.

[Age]

So what the fuck is hell?

'hell' is just NOT living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

'Heaven' is just the opposite, that is; living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

Obviously, 'you', human beings, have NOT reached the latter one YET. But this is only because 'you' have NOT YET learned HOW TO.

SO you are saying that heaven in hell are in the here and now?

No.

But if you meant heaven AND hell, then yes.

But, there is still A LOT MORE to CLARIFY.

Is that right?

Same as above.

Why are you using heaven and hell to describe this ideal states?

What is this 'ideal states'? The word 'this' with the word 'states' does NOT match NOR work.

Do you mean 'these' ideal states? Or, 'this' (one) 'ideal state'?

Or, do you mean, Why are you using THE WORDS 'heaven' and 'hell' to describe 'these' ideal states?

If yes, then because that is what and why these words are used in religious texts.

[Sculptor]

'hell' is just NOT living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

'Heaven' is just the opposite, that is; living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

Obviously, 'you', human beings, have NOT reached the latter one YET. But this is only because 'you' have NOT YET learned HOW TO.

SO you are saying that heaven in hell are in the here and now?

No.

But if you meant heaven AND hell, then yes.

But, there is still A LOT MORE to CLARIFY.

Is that right?

Same as above.

Why are you using heaven and hell to describe this ideal states?

What is this 'ideal states'? The word 'this' with the word 'states' does NOT match NOR work.

Do you mean 'these' ideal states? Or, 'this' (one) 'ideal state'?

Or, do you mean, Why are you using THE WORDS 'heaven' and 'hell' to describe 'these' ideal states?

If yes, then because that is what and why these words are used in religious texts.

PLONK!

[Age]

'hell' is just NOT living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

'Heaven' is just the opposite, that is; living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

Obviously, 'you', human beings, have NOT reached the latter one YET. But this is only because 'you' have NOT YET learned HOW TO.

What you are 'suggesting' here, if that's the right word.. is just Not possible.

What I am 'suggesting' here is the words 'heaven' and 'hell' in religious texts just refers to how 'we' live in this One Universe and One Existence.

If 'what' is "the right word"? And, 'what' is "just Not possible"? I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about and referring to here.

You are bascially saying that until every human being learns how to live harmoniously and peacefully together as one human family then heaven on earth will never be an experience.

NO I am NOT, basically, saying this. This might be close, but it is NOT right.

What I am, actually, basically saying is: If, and when, adult human beings learn how to live harmoniously and peacefully together as One family, with EVERY one, then a 'heaven-like' life, on earth, can and WILL begin.

Well guess what, there is no such thing as heaven on earth, that's just a made up idea that is born of the mind that doesn't actually exist anywhere in reality..

And, also guess what, according to the, so called, "logic" of the one known as "dontaskme" absolutely EVERY thing is just a made up idea that is born of the mind that does NOT EVEN actually exist anywhere in reality, which by the way also MEANS, to the "logic" of "dontaskme", 'reality' is ALSO just a made up idea also born of the mind that does NOT actually exist anywhere in "reality".

The OBVIOUS contradiction here is OUTSTANDING.

and so that is why you will continue to cling to your deluded assumed beliefs that you accuse others of having while denying yours...

But I do NOT believe ANY thing. And, I do NOT like to assume ANY thing as well.

reality check, heaven and hell DO NOT exist, except as fantasy, myth, and or of pure imagination within the empty perceiving mind.

Okay. Is there ANY thing that does exist?

If yes, then what is it/are they?

Age, you really DO NOT HAVE ANY true understanding of NONDUALITY whatsoever...but despair not, for YOU are not ALONE.

Okay.

Do 'you', the one known as "dontaskme", have A true understanding of NONDUALITY?

Any such identification with ones thoughts and ideas such as heaven and hell existing for the human being believed to be true and real... is 100% proof you really DO NOT have any understanding of the Nondual nature of reality. You will not like being told that, but so be it.

But I have absolutely NO care at all whatsoever you telling me this.

If this is what 'it' IS, then this is what 'it' IS.

At least we now KNOW what 'you' BELIEVE is absolutely true, right, and correct.

And is why you will continue to spout the most laughable load of totally pure baloney known to man here on this forum forever and ever until you die, never really knowing what an unuseful idiot you really are, but despair not, you are not alone.

Why do 'you', people, in this forum, concern "yourselves" with my "most laughable load of totally pure baloney known to man"?

Why NOT just laugh at what I say, and just be happy with that?

Why is there the continual name calling, and attacking, of 'me'?

Why is there such a HATRED and RIDICULING of 'me' when I am just express my views?

If my views are absurd and laughable to 'you', then WHY not just stay focused on the views? Why is there the turning on the "person"?

So,good luck with the futile exercise of needing to fix what is, was, and never has ever been broken, except what is inside your own believed assuming believing brain.

So, do you call the behavior of human beings that is destroying their ONE and ONLY home, and in the process also actually abusing their own off-spring, not some thing in need of fixing, and is some thing which is, was, and never has even been broken?

You have still got a long way to go before reaching your true self, good luck with the seeking though, you're going to need it.

How do 'you' KNOW that 'I' have NOT YET uncovered thy True Self?

What are you basing this "knowledge" on exactly?

I will continue to point out all your flaws until the day I die...while you continue to revel in them.

.

Okay. So, some, of the nonduality belief, would be thinking and saying now; 'you' REALLY do love talking and playing with 'your' 'self'.

The MORE FLAWS 'you' perceive in 'Me', then the MORE EVIDENCE 'I' am gathering.

[Age]

So what the fuck is hell?

'hell' is just NOT living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

'Heaven' is just the opposite, that is; living peacefully and harmoniously with EVERY one, as One.

Obviously, 'you', human beings, have NOT reached the latter one YET. But this is only because 'you' have NOT YET learned HOW TO.

It seems that only in a philosophy forum do some people address others as "you human beings". There must be space aliens or something among us.

Yes, there MUST be 'that' ONLY, right?

Could there POSSIBLY be absolutely ANY thing else?

Do the 'people' in philosophy forums EVER even just contemplate in CLARIFYING with "another" what they are actually MEANING, in what they say, rather than just ALWAYS ASSUMING ONLY?

Considering what the word 'philosophy' once meant, and what the word once referred to, then observing and SEE just how far this has been turned around and is now heading in the COMPLETELY OPPOSITE direction, in the days of when this is being written, is quite astonishing really.