Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

[Age]

Further - I would argue that the persistence of religion is a great harm to human progress, and fosters suspicion and hatred between different groups.

That sounds true to me.

There is no reason that spiritual beliefs need to be organized into massive organizations.

Is there any reason that any belief needs to be organized into massive, or even tiny, organizations?

In fact, is there any reason that there is any 'need' for any belief at all?

If yes, then what reasons could they possibly be?

There is no reason that organizations that serve communities need to be based on a spiritual belief.

Is there any reason that organization that serve communities need to be on any belief at all?

Large organized religion is too hypnotic and toxic for too many.

Any organization, which is based on any beliefs, it could be argued, is to hypnotic and to toxic for any one.

Religion's toxic influence is printed on money, and presidents swear an oath on a book of archaic stories.

Religion's safe and harmless influence is not printed on money, and presidents swear an oath, make promises, on a lot of things.

It's a type of madness, really.

How ALL adult human beings misbehave in the days of when this is written is 'madness', itself. But they ALL do it, and thus ALL SHOW/REVEAL their madness.

Natural spiritual beauty comes from individuals -- not from organizations that seek to control.

What is the difference between 'natural spiritual beauty' and 'religious spiritual beauty'?

What happens if there is One large, organization, of 'natural spiritual beauty', within EVERY one, which is REVEALED by, and through, One commonly shared perspective?

EVERY one would have to come together, or unite, which would form One very large organization, which may be SEEN as One very religious AND spiritual entity/individual?

There is just so much potential and possibilities, correct?

This One organization/entity/individual may in fact be seeking to control, or ALREADY IS controlling, EVERY one of 'you'. But, we will just have to WAIT and SEE what happens next, correct?

[Sculptor]

Such a simple rely. There are many Gods BTW - 1000's, not just one.

What's your story to have such a view of your former God. your personal story to be so "anti"god" - you could be a former Hindu, but i think via statistic. and this forum being western, you are probably Anti-Christ (I would say anti-YHWH, but nearly all christians today affirm Christ as YHWH - and doubt you are a former Jew - though they are western, their numbers are so low as to allow me to assme you are not a former Jew).

Yeah I know that there are many gods.
I don't really regard your personal questions as important or relevant. I'm not here to feed your prejudice.
90% of Christians ain't even heard of Yahoo Wahoo or Yarway. And Culturally each conception of God is a evolution of local "pagan" gods, since 90+% of historical christians were "converted" mostly forcibly through word of mouth via the syncratism of local gods.
All you need to know is that I have studied culture; anthropologically, historicaly and archaeologically. I have looked at the emergence of religions and the arguments for the existence of god/s and found them wanting.
Further - I would argue that the persistence of religion is a great harm to human progress, and fosters suspicion and hatred between different groups.

Does the group known as "atheism" foster suspicion and hatred between different groups also?

No. The hatred comes from Christians and other Theists.

Could it be possible that the persistence of non-religion be a great harm to human progress also?

Truth is never harmful.

Or, is either or both of these things just not possible?

Education and knowledge tends to banish superstition, fear, and ignorance. As long as humans are willing to explore their world/s in the spirit of investgation and inquiry, it is possible that we can all agree on what we find there, since, without myths and sperstitions, the object of our study is the same for all who live here.
If we persist on the arrogance and vanity of the tribe, then we are doomed to anihilate the world.

[attofishpi]

Does the group known as "atheism" foster suspicion and hatred between different groups also?

No. The hatred comes from Christians and other Theists.

Humanity has inherent hatred going back to caveman Chad and his big stick when he saw his mate shagging the last hairy chick he fucked, and bashed his mate to death with it (the hairy chick, not the stick).

Atheists are a group of non believers that ALSO have hatred - some of them create clans of similar ilk and real eyes, hey lets latch on to a religion, contort one as they have been over the aeons and make martyrs out of saps.

[Sculptor]

Does the group known as "atheism" foster suspicion and hatred between different groups also?

No. The hatred comes from Christians and other Theists.

Humanity has inherent hatred going back to caveman Chad and his big stick when he saw his mate shagging the last hairy chick he fucked, and bashed his mate to death with it (the hairy chick, not the stick).

Atheists are a group of non believers that ALSO have hatred - some of them create clans of similar ilk and real eyes, hey lets latch on to a religion, contort one as they have been over the aeons and make martyrs out of saps.

I don't care what you think.
My remarks were not directed at you.

[attofishpi]

No. The hatred comes from Christians and other Theists.

Humanity has inherent hatred going back to caveman Chad and his big stick when he saw his mate shagging the last hairy chick he fucked, and bashed his mate to death with it (the hairy chick, not the stick).

Atheists are a group of non believers that ALSO have hatred - some of them create clans of similar ilk and real eyes, hey lets latch on to a religion, contort one as they have been over the aeons and make martyrs out of saps.

I don't care what you think.
My remarks were not directed at you.

Well, just pointing out you need to remark them, twas a very inadequate reply.

[gaffo]

Evolution or not He's still a hole.

Such a simple rely. There are many Gods BTW - 1000's, not just one.

What's your story to have such a view of your former God. your personal story to be so "anti"god" - you could be a former Hindu, but i think via statistic. and this forum being western, you are probably Anti-Christ (I would say anti-YHWH, but nearly all christians today affirm Christ as YHWH - and doubt you are a former Jew - though they are western, their numbers are so low as to allow me to assme you are not a former Jew).

Yeah I know that there are many gods.
I don't really regard your personal questions as important or relevant. I'm not here to feed your prejudice.
90% of Christians ain't even heard of Yahoo Wahoo or Yarway. And Culturally each conception of God is a evolution of local "pagan" gods, since 90+% of historical christians were "converted" mostly forcibly through word of mouth via the syncratism of local gods.
All you need to know is that I have studied culture; anthropologically, historicaly and archaeologically. I have looked at the emergence of religions and the arguments for the existence of god/s and found them wanting.
Further - I would argue that the persistence of religion is a great harm to human progress, and fosters suspicion and hatred between different groups.

ok, i thank for the reasoned reply, per your latter esp, I would argue that the persistence of religion is a great harm to human progress[/b] lts talk about this, its an important topic to talk about, i welcome your views Sir.

[Age]

Yeah I know that there are many gods.
I don't really regard your personal questions as important or relevant. I'm not here to feed your prejudice.
90% of Christians ain't even heard of Yahoo Wahoo or Yarway. And Culturally each conception of God is a evolution of local "pagan" gods, since 90+% of historical christians were "converted" mostly forcibly through word of mouth via the syncratism of local gods.
All you need to know is that I have studied culture; anthropologically, historicaly and archaeologically. I have looked at the emergence of religions and the arguments for the existence of god/s and found them wanting.
Further - I would argue that the persistence of religion is a great harm to human progress, and fosters suspicion and hatred between different groups.

Does the group known as "atheism" foster suspicion and hatred between different groups also?

No. The hatred comes from Christians and other Theists.

Ah okay. From my perspective, however, their appears to be some hatred also coming from some of the "atheism" crowd, especially those who despise the "theist" crowd for having different BELIEFS.

It could be argued that the persistence that there is NO God, and that BELIEF itself, is doing as just as much great harm to human progress as the other BELIEFS do. To me, it is obvious how the group that BELIEVE that there is 'NO God' fosters suspicion and hatred between the different groups that have opposing BELIEFS. To me, it is just the different BELIEFS, which 'you' ALL have, is the very 'thing', which is 'fostering' suspicion and hatred. Without the BELIEFS the suspicion AND hatred just disappears away naturally.

Could it be possible that the persistence of non-religion be a great harm to human progress also?

Truth is never harmful.

LOL And 'you' KNOW Truth, correct?

The BELIEF that there is 'A God' is just as harmful and as dangerous as the BELIEF that there is 'NO God' IS, well to me anyway.

I suggest that UNTIL you actually obtain and HAVE the EVIDENCE and PROOF of what thee actual Truth IS, then 'you' do NOT YET actually KNOW the Truth at all. For example, what EVIDENCE and/or PROOF do you actually HAVE that there is 'NO God'?

Or, is either or both of these things just not possible?

Education and knowledge tends to banish superstition, fear, and ignorance.

But, so called, "education" can also foster and can tend to support the WRONG "knowledge", which is BELIEVED to be true and which is being taught and shared as being true. As can be CLEARLY EVIDENCED throughout this forum, and human beings writings over the last few thousand of years, prior to when this is being written.

As long as humans are willing to explore their world/s in the spirit of investgation and inquiry, it is possible that we can all agree on what we find there, since, without myths and sperstitions, the object of our study is the same for all who live here.

I agree that we can ALL come to agree on what we find. However, while 'you', human beings, are making ASSUMPTIONS, and holding onto and maintaining your BELIEFS, then you obviously are NOT exploring, investigating, and inquiring, from the Truly OPEN perspective, which is what is NEEDED to come to an agreement. And, it is obviously ONLY from the Truly OPEN perspective where one can best learn, discover, and/or uncover what thee actual Truth of things IS.

ALL BELIEFS foster and increase myths and superstitions. For example, if NO evidence NOR proof can be provided that there is 'NO God', then to BELIEVE there is 'NO God' could be to BELIEVE in a myth and be just a superstition itself. But, obviously, to the one's who BELIEVE there is 'NO God', then this is NOT a myth NOR a superstition. To this group of people, this is OBVIOUSLY thee irrefutable Truth of things.

To these human beings, however, these ones are NOT willing to explore in the spirit of investigation and inquiry. This is because they OBVIOUSLY BELIEVE that they KNOW what thee Truth IS, ALREADY. As can be CLEARLY PROVEN by the words these people say and write, which can be CLEARLY SEEN.

If we persist on the arrogance and vanity of the tribe, then we are doomed to anihilate the world.

And could one of those tribes be the 'NO God' tribe?

Could the 'NO God' tribe be persisting with arrogance and/or vanity also?

Or is both or either of these two things just NOT possible, to you?

[Sculptor]

I would argue that the persistence of religion is a great harm to human progress[/b] lts talk about this, its an important topic to talk about, i welcome your views Sir.

Where would you like to start?

[Sculptor]

Does the group known as "atheism" foster suspicion and hatred between different groups also?

No. The hatred comes from Christians and other Theists.

Ah okay. From my perspective, however, their appears to be some hatred also coming from some of the "atheism" crowd, especially those who despise the "theist" crowd for having different BELIEFS.

Atheism does not involve belief.
It is simply a rejection of a certain type of belief.
Last time I looked I've not seen atheists with an placards with "god hates fags"; nor have I seen anyone drive a plane into a building in the name of atheism.

If you beleive in god you are likely to receive some ridicule. If you don't like that, then do not seek out the company of atheists. You have a right to not be offended. But you will have to vote with your feet.

It could be argued that the persistence that there is NO God, and that BELIEF itself, is doing as just as much great harm to human progress as the other BELIEFS do. To me, it is obvious how the group that BELIEVE that there is 'NO God' fosters suspicion and hatred between the different groups that have opposing BELIEFS. To me, it is just the different BELIEFS, which 'you' ALL have, is the very 'thing', which is 'fostering' suspicion and hatred. Without the BELIEFS the suspicion AND hatred just disappears away naturally.

"It could be argued...."
Let's hear it!

Could it be possible that the persistence of non-religion be a great harm to human progress also?

Truth is never harmful.

LOL And 'you' KNOW Truth, correct?

In this case yes.
I know the difference between superstition and fact.
The problem with religion is that it is based on ignorance and superstition. It is healthier to beleive nothing that to believe an obvious myth.

The BELIEF that there is 'A God' is just as harmful and as dangerous as the BELIEF that there is 'NO God' IS, well to me anyway.

You have no basis for the belief. Then again you have no basis for any belief. In fact that is exactly what marks the difference between you and I. I only accept things that I can establish as factual; you seem to think that belief is just a choice, and you choose to beleive any shit that makes you feel good. And that is a key reason why religion is such a great harm, as it encourages the attitude that belief has to have no basis. Just make it up as you go along, or just accept what people tell you. Religion is good at that. Pay attention; do what I say; shut up; don't think; and believe what I tell you.

I suggest that UNTIL you actually obtain and HAVE the EVIDENCE and PROOF of what thee actual Truth IS, then 'you' do NOT YET actually KNOW the Truth at all. For example, what EVIDENCE and/or PROOF do you actually HAVE that there is 'NO God'?

Or, is either or both of these things just not possible?

Education and knowledge tends to banish superstition, fear, and ignorance.

But, so called, "education" can also foster and can tend to support the WRONG "knowledge",

THere is hope yet. Yes, you are right there is such a thing as religious education which is a collection of bullshit. It definitely tend to foster and support false knowledge.

which is BELIEVED to be true and which is being taught and shared as being true. As can be CLEARLY EVIDENCED throughout this forum, and human beings writings over the last few thousand of years, prior to when this is being written.

Evidence comes from observation; not from the authority of long dead goat herders, and medieval monks. LOL. Old books are generally wrong. Science builds on old books and changes with the evidence. Religious books put a ball and chain on progress, because they are supposedly the word of god or some prophet the claim is that they are true for all time.
Have you stoned any adulterers recently?

As long as humans are willing to explore their world/s in the spirit of investgation and inquiry, it is possible that we can all agree on what we find there, since, without myths and sperstitions, the object of our study is the same for all who live here.

If we persist on the arrogance and vanity of the tribe, then we are doomed to anihilate the world.

And could one of those tribes be the 'NO God' tribe?

No.
A negative is not a thing; it is the absence of a thing. If I remove a wart, then I have no wart.

Could the 'NO God' tribe be persisting with arrogance and/or vanity also?

There were a tiny minority who are idiotic enough to try to create a pseuo-religion out of atheism. But for obvious reasons that did not work.

Or is both or either of these two things just NOT possible, to you?

The problem with theist is all too common. They tend to argue that atheism is "no better" than a religion. This absurd position requires them to upack and denigrate their own system in order to attack atheism. Atheism is just faith based. It's nothing more than a religion. Then they insist that it is a system of belief. This is thigh slappingly funny since these attacks recognise how unsatisfatory is faith and religion as a way of going on. I agree faith is useless, and religions are without merit.
Thing is that to be atheistic requires no faith and no system of belief. It is just a rejection of a creed recognised as bullshit.
So you only hurt your own cause.

[gaffo]

I would argue that the persistence of religion is a great harm to human progress[/b] lts talk about this, its an important topic to talk about, i welcome your views Sir.

Where would you like to start?

from the beginning,

use small words I'm thick.

[Age]

No. The hatred comes from Christians and other Theists.

Ah okay. From my perspective, however, their appears to be some hatred also coming from some of the "atheism" crowd, especially those who despise the "theist" crowd for having different BELIEFS.

Atheism does not involve belief.

Do atheists believe God does NOT exist?

It is simply a rejection of a certain type of belief.

If one 'rejects' some thing, then do they believe some thing else?

Last time I looked I've not seen atheists with an placards with "god hates fags"; nor have I seen anyone drive a plane into a building in the name of atheism.

If a human beings known as "atheists" BELIEVE God does NOT exist, then I would not be to surprised to not see them carrying placards talking about "God ... [doing anything]".

How many people have you actually seen drive a plane into a building?

Because you may not have yet seen a human being drive a plane into a building in the name of "atheism", then this has absolutely NO bearing on the fact that "atheists" BELIEVE things and do things in the name of their BELIEFS.

If you beleive in god you are likely to receive some ridicule.

I do NOT believe in God, nor god, and therefore this is moot.

If you don't like that, then do not seek out the company of atheists. You have a right to not be offended. But you will have to vote with your feet.

I have absolutely NO clue as to what this is about. I also have NO interest in clarifying either.

It could be argued that the persistence that there is NO God, and that BELIEF itself, is doing as just as much great harm to human progress as the other BELIEFS do. To me, it is obvious how the group that BELIEVE that there is 'NO God' fosters suspicion and hatred between the different groups that have opposing BELIEFS. To me, it is just the different BELIEFS, which 'you' ALL have, is the very 'thing', which is 'fostering' suspicion and hatred. Without the BELIEFS the suspicion AND hatred just disappears away naturally.

"It could be argued...."
Let's hear it!

Do you BELIEVE that 'it' could be argued?

If no, then okay. I will not bother.

But if yes, then great. I will bother.

I await your reply.

LOL And 'you' KNOW Truth, correct?

In this case yes.
I know the difference between superstition and fact.
The problem with religion is that it is based on ignorance and superstition. It is healthier to beleive nothing that to believe an obvious myth.

And here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of what I have been talking about and explaining. That is; people with BELIEFS are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY CLOSED to any thing otherwise.

The BELIEF that there is 'A God' is just as harmful and as dangerous as the BELIEF that there is 'NO God' IS, well to me anyway.

You have no basis for the belief.

But there is NO belief. There is just sound, logical reasoning, evidence AND proof, which that view is based upon.

Then again you have no basis for any belief.

Considering I have NO belief at all, then I am in agreement, from one perspective, with your claim here.

That is; for what is actually True, Right, and/or Correct absolutely NO 'belief' is actually needed. 'Belief' is usually only held for those 'things', whic are NOT based on fact, logical reasoning, evidence, NOT proof. So, it could be argued that 'you', human beings, have NO actual REAL basis for ANY belief that 'you' have and hold onto.

In fact that is exactly what marks the difference between you and I.

I agree.

I only accept things that I can establish as factual;

Yes this is true.

But, 'you' still do NOT KNOW how to answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?' properly and correctly, YET do 'you'?

you seem to think that belief is just a choice, and you choose to beleive any shit that makes you feel good.

If 'you' say so, then it MUST BE TRUE, correct?

And that is a key reason why religion is such a great harm, as it encourages the attitude that belief has to have no basis. Just make it up as you go along, or just accept what people tell you. Religion is good at that. Pay attention; do what I say; shut up; don't think; and believe what I tell you.

I agree that this is the way that some of the, so called, "religious" teachings is taught.

I suggest that UNTIL you actually obtain and HAVE the EVIDENCE and PROOF of what thee actual Truth IS, then 'you' do NOT YET actually KNOW the Truth at all. For example, what EVIDENCE and/or PROOF do you actually HAVE that there is 'NO God'?

Education and knowledge tends to banish superstition, fear, and ignorance.

But, so called, "education" can also foster and can tend to support the WRONG "knowledge",

THere is hope yet. Yes, you are right there is such a thing as religious education which is a collection of bullshit. It definitely tend to foster and support false knowledge.

Yes this is OBVIOUSLY TRUE. But, you STILL DID NOT answer the actual question I posed here.

which is BELIEVED to be true and which is being taught and shared as being true. As can be CLEARLY EVIDENCED throughout this forum, and human beings writings over the last few thousand of years, prior to when this is being written.

Evidence comes from observation; not from the authority of long dead goat herders, and medieval monks. LOL.

I am NOT sure what this has to do with what I actually wrote, and meant.

Old books are generally wrong. Science builds on old books and changes with the evidence. Religious books put a ball and chain on progress, because they are supposedly the word of god or some prophet the claim is that they are true for all time.

What you BELIEVE is ALREADY KNOWN, and OBVIOUS.

Have you stoned any adulterers recently?

Yes.

But then again you would NOT YET be able to comprehend understand what I actually wrote, and meant, here.

As long as humans are willing to explore their world/s in the spirit of investgation and inquiry, it is possible that we can all agree on what we find there, since, without myths and sperstitions, the object of our study is the same for all who live here.

If we persist on the arrogance and vanity of the tribe, then we are doomed to anihilate the world.

And could one of those tribes be the 'NO God' tribe?

No.

Okay, Well this is OBVIOUSLY settled once, and for ALL, correct?

A negative is not a thing; it is the absence of a thing. If I remove a wart, then I have no wart.

A group that BELIEVES that there is 'NO God' is a 'thing', obviously. It is a 'group', which has a BELIEF, clearly.

Could the 'NO God' tribe be persisting with arrogance and/or vanity also?

There were a tiny minority who are idiotic enough to try to create a pseuo-religion out of atheism. But for obvious reasons that did not work.

But if there is a group, which BELIEVES God does NOT exist, or BELIEVES that is NO God, or DISBELIEF God exists, then there is, to me, just another religious group. By the way, this works PERFECTLY. Even though you obviously BELIEVE otherwise.

By the way, what does this group known as "atheism" actually BELIEVE (in)?

Your Honest answer to this CLARIFYING question will be much appreciated.

Or is both or either of these two things just NOT possible, to you?

The problem with theist is all too common. They tend to argue that atheism is "no better" than a religion.

But 'who' do you BELIEVE is the "theist" here?

This absurd position requires them to upack and denigrate their own system in order to attack atheism.

I have NOT seen anyone, so call, "attacking" "atheism" here.

I am just asking 'you' some very simple clarifying questions, which, can be clearly seen, 'you' continually do NOT answer the actual questions.

Atheism is just faith based. It's nothing more than a religion. Then they insist that it is a system of belief. This is thigh slappingly funny since these attacks recognise how unsatisfatory is faith and religion as a way of going on. I agree faith is useless, and religions are without merit.

So, we BOTH agree on the EXACT SAME thing here, correct?

Thing is that to be atheistic requires no faith and no system of belief. It is just a rejection of a creed recognised as bullshit.

So, "atheists" do NOT believe religion is bullshit, correct?

And, some might also just say, to be a "theist" just is just a rejection of a creed recognized as bullshit, as well?

So you only hurt your own cause.

But I have NO cause. Or, NONE at least like you BELIEVE I have.

I am just pointing out that, from my perspective, to have a BELIEF is just as STUPID as to have a DISBELIEF in ANY thing. This point 'you' appear to keep continually MISS.

Just to make it clear to 'you', a BELIEF in God is just as STUPID as a DISBELIEF in God, or as a BELIEF in NO God, is, to me.

[Sculptor]

I would argue that the persistence of religion is a great harm to human progress[/b] lts talk about this, its an important topic to talk about, i welcome your views Sir.

Where would you like to start?

from the beginning,

use small words I'm thick.

A clue that a reduction on an emphasis of religion leads to progress can be shown historically from the time of the enlightenment. Compare if you will the decline of Rome from the moment Constantine adopted Christianity to its fall throughout the highly stagnant, and highly religious middle ages. No progress of any kind.
The begining of European progress began with the challenge to the Catholic Church in the Reformation, and with the reformation came skepticism. If you can challenge the curch, then why not the entire basis of its belief? Once god was put under the micrscope things started to change more quickly.
But as thing began to improve with thinkers such as Galileo the reaction of the church was to crush learning and progress.
Part 2 later

[Sculptor]

Ah okay. From my perspective, however, their appears to be some hatred also coming from some of the "atheism" crowd, especially those who despise the "theist" crowd for having different BELIEFS.

Atheism does not involve belief.

Do atheists believe God does NOT exist?

No. Atheists do not believe in God. Many try to reject all belief.

It is simply a rejection of a certain type of belief.

If one 'rejects' some thing, then do they believe some thing else?

DUH, no.

Last time I looked I've not seen atheists with an placards with "god hates fags"; nor have I seen anyone drive a plane into a building in the name of atheism.

If a human beings known as "atheists" BELIEVE God does NOT exist, then I would not be to surprised to not see them carrying placards talking about "God ... [doing anything]".

How many people have you actually seen drive a plane into a building?

Too many. All theists

Because you may not have yet seen a human being drive a plane into a building in the name of "atheism", then this has absolutely NO bearing on the fact that "atheists" BELIEVE things and do things in the name of their BELIEFS.

If you beleive in god you are likely to receive some ridicule.

I do NOT believe in God, nor god, and therefore this is moot.

If you don't like that, then do not seek out the company of atheists. You have a right to not be offended. But you will have to vote with your feet.

I have absolutely NO clue as to what this is about. I also have NO interest in clarifying either.

It could be argued that the persistence that there is NO God, and that BELIEF itself, is doing as just as much great harm to human progress as the other BELIEFS do. To me, it is obvious how the group that BELIEVE that there is 'NO God' fosters suspicion and hatred between the different groups that have opposing BELIEFS. To me, it is just the different BELIEFS, which 'you' ALL have, is the very 'thing', which is 'fostering' suspicion and hatred. Without the BELIEFS the suspicion AND hatred just disappears away naturally.

"It could be argued...."
Let's hear it!

Do you BELIEVE that 'it' could be argued?

If no, then okay. I will not bother.

But if yes, then great. I will bother.

I await your reply.

LOL And 'you' KNOW Truth, correct?

In this case yes.
I know the difference between superstition and fact.
The problem with religion is that it is based on ignorance and superstition. It is healthier to beleive nothing that to believe an obvious myth.

And here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of what I have been talking about and explaining. That is; people with BELIEFS are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY CLOSED to any thing otherwise.

Yes, you most definitely are closed minded. I get that. No need to repeat it.

The BELIEF that there is 'A God' is just as harmful and as dangerous as the BELIEF that there is 'NO God' IS, well to me anyway.

You have no basis for the belief.

But there is NO belief. There is just sound, logical reasoning, evidence AND proof, which that view is based upon.

Exactly - you have no argument, nor evidence for that childish bit of flimflam.

Then again you have no basis for any belief.

Considering I have NO belief at all, then I am in agreement, from one perspective, with your claim here.

That is; for what is actually True, Right, and/or Correct absolutely NO 'belief' is actually needed. 'Belief' is usually only held for those 'things', whic are NOT based on fact, logical reasoning, evidence, NOT proof. So, it could be argued that 'you', human beings, have NO actual REAL basis for ANY belief that 'you' have and hold onto.

In fact that is exactly what marks the difference between you and I.

I agree.

I only accept things that I can establish as factual;

Yes this is true.

But, 'you' still do NOT KNOW how to answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?' properly and correctly, YET do 'you'?

you seem to think that belief is just a choice, and you choose to beleive any shit that makes you feel good.

If 'you' say so, then it MUST BE TRUE, correct?

And that is a key reason why religion is such a great harm, as it encourages the attitude that belief has to have no basis. Just make it up as you go along, or just accept what people tell you. Religion is good at that. Pay attention; do what I say; shut up; don't think; and believe what I tell you.

I agree that this is the way that some of the, so called, "religious" teachings is taught.

I suggest that UNTIL you actually obtain and HAVE the EVIDENCE and PROOF of what thee actual Truth IS, then 'you' do NOT YET actually KNOW the Truth at all. For example, what EVIDENCE and/or PROOF do you actually HAVE that there is 'NO God'?




But, so called, "education" can also foster and can tend to support the WRONG "knowledge",

THere is hope yet. Yes, you are right there is such a thing as religious education which is a collection of bullshit. It definitely tend to foster and support false knowledge.

Yes this is OBVIOUSLY TRUE. But, you STILL DID NOT answer the actual question I posed here.

which is BELIEVED to be true and which is being taught and shared as being true. As can be CLEARLY EVIDENCED throughout this forum, and human beings writings over the last few thousand of years, prior to when this is being written.

Evidence comes from observation; not from the authority of long dead goat herders, and medieval monks. LOL.

I am NOT sure what this has to do with what I actually wrote, and meant.

Old books are generally wrong. Science builds on old books and changes with the evidence. Religious books put a ball and chain on progress, because they are supposedly the word of god or some prophet the claim is that they are true for all time.

What you BELIEVE is ALREADY KNOWN, and OBVIOUS.

Have you stoned any adulterers recently?

Yes.

But then again you would NOT YET be able to comprehend understand what I actually wrote, and meant, here.

And could one of those tribes be the 'NO God' tribe?

No.

Okay, Well this is OBVIOUSLY settled once, and for ALL, correct?

A negative is not a thing; it is the absence of a thing. If I remove a wart, then I have no wart.

A group that BELIEVES that there is 'NO God' is a 'thing', obviously. It is a 'group', which has a BELIEF, clearly.

Could the 'NO God' tribe be persisting with arrogance and/or vanity also?

There were a tiny minority who are idiotic enough to try to create a pseuo-religion out of atheism. But for obvious reasons that did not work.

But if there is a group, which BELIEVES God does NOT exist, or BELIEVES that is NO God, or DISBELIEF God exists, then there is, to me, just another religious group. By the way, this works PERFECTLY. Even though you obviously BELIEVE otherwise.

By the way, what does this group known as "atheism" actually BELIEVE (in)?

Your Honest answer to this CLARIFYING question will be much appreciated.

Or is both or either of these two things just NOT possible, to you?

The problem with theist is all too common. They tend to argue that atheism is "no better" than a religion.

But 'who' do you BELIEVE is the "theist" here?

This absurd position requires them to upack and denigrate their own system in order to attack atheism.

I have NOT seen anyone, so call, "attacking" "atheism" here.

I am just asking 'you' some very simple clarifying questions, which, can be clearly seen, 'you' continually do NOT answer the actual questions.

Atheism is just faith based. It's nothing more than a religion. Then they insist that it is a system of belief. This is thigh slappingly funny since these attacks recognise how unsatisfatory is faith and religion as a way of going on. I agree faith is useless, and religions are without merit.

So, we BOTH agree on the EXACT SAME thing here, correct?

Thing is that to be atheistic requires no faith and no system of belief. It is just a rejection of a creed recognised as bullshit.

So, "atheists" do NOT believe religion is bullshit, correct?

And, some might also just say, to be a "theist" just is just a rejection of a creed recognized as bullshit, as well?

So you only hurt your own cause.

But I have NO cause. Or, NONE at least like you BELIEVE I have.

I am just pointing out that, from my perspective, to have a BELIEF is just as STUPID as to have a DISBELIEF in ANY thing. This point 'you' appear to keep continually MISS.

Just to make it clear to 'you', a BELIEF in God is just as STUPID as a DISBELIEF in God, or as a BELIEF in NO God, is, to me.

Mostly gibberish. Incoherent, and self defeating.
I'd hate to be in your head.
How do you cope?

[Age]

Atheism does not involve belief.

Do atheists believe God does NOT exist?

No.

Okay. But what do "atheists" believe?

Atheists do not believe in God.

Okay. But I find this to be very obvious.

Many try to reject all belief.

Why would many "atheists" try to reject ALL belief?

I thought "atheists" would concentrate on rejecting things in regards to "theists" beliefs.

It is simply a rejection of a certain type of belief.

If one 'rejects' some thing, then do they believe some thing else?

DUH, no.

Okay. So why would "atheists" want to reject a certain type of belief?

Last time I looked I've not seen atheists with an placards with "god hates fags"; nor have I seen anyone drive a plane into a building in the name of atheism.

If a human beings known as "atheists" BELIEVE God does NOT exist, then I would not be to surprised to not see them carrying placards talking about "God ... [doing anything]".

How many people have you actually seen drive a plane into a building?

Too many. All theists

How many is "too many"?

Because you may not have yet seen a human being drive a plane into a building in the name of "atheism", then this has absolutely NO bearing on the fact that "atheists" BELIEVE things and do things in the name of their BELIEFS.

If you beleive in god you are likely to receive some ridicule.

I do NOT believe in God, nor god, and therefore this is moot.

If you don't like that, then do not seek out the company of atheists. You have a right to not be offended. But you will have to vote with your feet.

I have absolutely NO clue as to what this is about. I also have NO interest in clarifying either.

"It could be argued...."
Let's hear it!

Do you BELIEVE that 'it' could be argued?

If no, then okay. I will not bother.

But if yes, then great. I will bother.

I await your reply.

In this case yes.
I know the difference between superstition and fact.
The problem with religion is that it is based on ignorance and superstition. It is healthier to beleive nothing that to believe an obvious myth.

And here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of what I have been talking about and explaining. That is; people with BELIEFS are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY CLOSED to any thing otherwise.

Yes, you most definitely are closed minded. I get that. No need to repeat it.

I am, supposedly, "closed minded" about 'what', EXACTLY?

Also, what is this 'mind' thing, EXACTLY, which can, supposedly, be "closed"?

You have no basis for the belief.

But there is NO belief. There is just sound, logical reasoning, evidence AND proof, which that view is based upon.

Exactly - you have no argument, nor evidence for that childish bit of flimflam.

WHY did you say, "Exactly", but then go on saying the EXACT OPPOSITE thing?

I have an argument AND evidence for what I said, which was;
The BELIEF that there is 'A God' is just as harmful and as dangerous as the BELIEF that there is 'NO God' IS, well to me anyway.

Then again you have no basis for any belief.

Considering I have NO belief at all, then I am in agreement, from one perspective, with your claim here.

That is; for what is actually True, Right, and/or Correct absolutely NO 'belief' is actually needed. 'Belief' is usually only held for those 'things', whic are NOT based on fact, logical reasoning, evidence, NOT proof. So, it could be argued that 'you', human beings, have NO actual REAL basis for ANY belief that 'you' have and hold onto.

In fact that is exactly what marks the difference between you and I.

I agree.

I only accept things that I can establish as factual;

Yes this is true.

But, 'you' still do NOT KNOW how to answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?' properly and correctly, YET do 'you'?

you seem to think that belief is just a choice, and you choose to beleive any shit that makes you feel good.

If 'you' say so, then it MUST BE TRUE, correct?

And that is a key reason why religion is such a great harm, as it encourages the attitude that belief has to have no basis. Just make it up as you go along, or just accept what people tell you. Religion is good at that. Pay attention; do what I say; shut up; don't think; and believe what I tell you.

I agree that this is the way that some of the, so called, "religious" teachings is taught.

THere is hope yet. Yes, you are right there is such a thing as religious education which is a collection of bullshit. It definitely tend to foster and support false knowledge.

Yes this is OBVIOUSLY TRUE. But, you STILL DID NOT answer the actual question I posed here.

Evidence comes from observation; not from the authority of long dead goat herders, and medieval monks. LOL.

I am NOT sure what this has to do with what I actually wrote, and meant.

Old books are generally wrong. Science builds on old books and changes with the evidence. Religious books put a ball and chain on progress, because they are supposedly the word of god or some prophet the claim is that they are true for all time.

What you BELIEVE is ALREADY KNOWN, and OBVIOUS.

Have you stoned any adulterers recently?

Yes.

But then again you would NOT YET be able to comprehend understand what I actually wrote, and meant, here.

No.

Okay, Well this is OBVIOUSLY settled once, and for ALL, correct?

A negative is not a thing; it is the absence of a thing. If I remove a wart, then I have no wart.

A group that BELIEVES that there is 'NO God' is a 'thing', obviously. It is a 'group', which has a BELIEF, clearly.

There were a tiny minority who are idiotic enough to try to create a pseuo-religion out of atheism. But for obvious reasons that did not work.

But if there is a group, which BELIEVES God does NOT exist, or BELIEVES that is NO God, or DISBELIEF God exists, then there is, to me, just another religious group. By the way, this works PERFECTLY. Even though you obviously BELIEVE otherwise.

By the way, what does this group known as "atheism" actually BELIEVE (in)?

Your Honest answer to this CLARIFYING question will be much appreciated.

The problem with theist is all too common. They tend to argue that atheism is "no better" than a religion.

But 'who' do you BELIEVE is the "theist" here?

This absurd position requires them to upack and denigrate their own system in order to attack atheism.

I have NOT seen anyone, so call, "attacking" "atheism" here.

I am just asking 'you' some very simple clarifying questions, which, can be clearly seen, 'you' continually do NOT answer the actual questions.

Atheism is just faith based. It's nothing more than a religion. Then they insist that it is a system of belief. This is thigh slappingly funny since these attacks recognise how unsatisfatory is faith and religion as a way of going on. I agree faith is useless, and religions are without merit.

So, we BOTH agree on the EXACT SAME thing here, correct?

Thing is that to be atheistic requires no faith and no system of belief. It is just a rejection of a creed recognised as bullshit.

So, "atheists" do NOT believe religion is bullshit, correct?

And, some might also just say, to be a "theist" just is just a rejection of a creed recognized as bullshit, as well?

So you only hurt your own cause.

But I have NO cause. Or, NONE at least like you BELIEVE I have.

I am just pointing out that, from my perspective, to have a BELIEF is just as STUPID as to have a DISBELIEF in ANY thing. This point 'you' appear to keep continually MISS.

Just to make it clear to 'you', a BELIEF in God is just as STUPID as a DISBELIEF in God, or as a BELIEF in NO God, is, to me.

Mostly gibberish. Incoherent, and self defeating.

And absolutely NO evidence at all for your claim here.

I'd hate to be in your head.

Okay.

How do you cope?

With 'what', EXACTLY?

[Sculptor]

Do atheists believe God does NOT exist?

No.

Okay. But what do "atheists" believe?

Atheism is not characterised by belief

Atheists do not believe in God.

Okay. But I find this to be very obvious.

And yet you still have not got the message.

Many try to reject all belief.

Why would many "atheists" try to reject ALL belief?

"Belief" is a wide word. It can also refer to knowledge on the one hand, but things taken as true for no verifyable reason, on the other hand.
If you think about it you can completely reject the word in your life if you seek knowledge rather than simply accept things you think are true.
I can get on with my life without the need to use the word at all, by replacing it with something more precise.
What I know, I know. Knowledge is challengable if it has a basis. Some might use the word belief in place of knowledge but it makes more sense to me to reserve stuff I'm sure about to "knowledge" and to never accept any beliefs into my thinking.
What people beleive can be speculations, myths, desires, and aspirations.
Why use a clumsy word like belief when you can be more precise in your language.

I thought "atheists" would concentrate on rejecting things in regards to "theists" beliefs.

Most atheists no longer think anything at all abot god or theists' beliefs.

If one 'rejects' some thing, then do they believe some thing else?

DUH, no.

Okay. So why would "atheists" want to reject a certain type of belief?

If a human beings known as "atheists" BELIEVE God does NOT exist, then I would not be to surprised to not see them carrying placards talking about "God ... [doing anything]".

How many people have you actually seen drive a plane into a building?

Too many. All theists

How many is "too many"?

You ask ;"How many people that fly planes into building are too many?"
My answer; ONE.

Because you may not have yet seen a human being drive a plane into a building in the name of "atheism", then this has absolutely NO bearing on the fact that "atheists" BELIEVE things and do things in the name of their BELIEFS.



I do NOT believe in God, nor god, and therefore this is moot.



I have absolutely NO clue as to what this is about. I also have NO interest in clarifying either.



Do you BELIEVE that 'it' could be argued?

If no, then okay. I will not bother.

But if yes, then great. I will bother.

I await your reply.




And here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of what I have been talking about and explaining. That is; people with BELIEFS are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY CLOSED to any thing otherwise.

Yes, you most definitely are closed minded. I get that. No need to repeat it.

I am, supposedly, "closed minded" about 'what', EXACTLY?

Also, what is this 'mind' thing, EXACTLY, which can, supposedly, be "closed"?

But there is NO belief. There is just sound, logical reasoning, evidence AND proof, which that view is based upon.

Exactly - you have no argument, nor evidence for that childish bit of flimflam.

WHY did you say, "Exactly", but then go on saying the EXACT OPPOSITE thing?

I have an argument AND evidence for what I said, which was;
The BELIEF that there is 'A God' is just as harmful and as dangerous as the BELIEF that there is 'NO God' IS, well to me anyway.

Considering I have NO belief at all, then I am in agreement, from one perspective, with your claim here.

That is; for what is actually True, Right, and/or Correct absolutely NO 'belief' is actually needed. 'Belief' is usually only held for those 'things', whic are NOT based on fact, logical reasoning, evidence, NOT proof. So, it could be argued that 'you', human beings, have NO actual REAL basis for ANY belief that 'you' have and hold onto.



I agree.



Yes this is true.

But, 'you' still do NOT KNOW how to answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?' properly and correctly, YET do 'you'?



If 'you' say so, then it MUST BE TRUE, correct?



I agree that this is the way that some of the, so called, "religious" teachings is taught.




Yes this is OBVIOUSLY TRUE. But, you STILL DID NOT answer the actual question I posed here.



I am NOT sure what this has to do with what I actually wrote, and meant.



What you BELIEVE is ALREADY KNOWN, and OBVIOUS.



Yes.

But then again you would NOT YET be able to comprehend understand what I actually wrote, and meant, here.



Okay, Well this is OBVIOUSLY settled once, and for ALL, correct?



A group that BELIEVES that there is 'NO God' is a 'thing', obviously. It is a 'group', which has a BELIEF, clearly.



But if there is a group, which BELIEVES God does NOT exist, or BELIEVES that is NO God, or DISBELIEF God exists, then there is, to me, just another religious group. By the way, this works PERFECTLY. Even though you obviously BELIEVE otherwise.

By the way, what does this group known as "atheism" actually BELIEVE (in)?

Your Honest answer to this CLARIFYING question will be much appreciated.



But 'who' do you BELIEVE is the "theist" here?



I have NOT seen anyone, so call, "attacking" "atheism" here.

I am just asking 'you' some very simple clarifying questions, which, can be clearly seen, 'you' continually do NOT answer the actual questions.



So, we BOTH agree on the EXACT SAME thing here, correct?



So, "atheists" do NOT believe religion is bullshit, correct?

And, some might also just say, to be a "theist" just is just a rejection of a creed recognized as bullshit, as well?



But I have NO cause. Or, NONE at least like you BELIEVE I have.

I am just pointing out that, from my perspective, to have a BELIEF is just as STUPID as to have a DISBELIEF in ANY thing. This point 'you' appear to keep continually MISS.

Just to make it clear to 'you', a BELIEF in God is just as STUPID as a DISBELIEF in God, or as a BELIEF in NO God, is, to me.

Mostly gibberish. Incoherent, and self defeating.

And absolutely NO evidence at all for your claim here.

I'd hate to be in your head.

Okay.

How do you cope?

With 'what', EXACTLY?
[/quote]