Judaism No Longer Exists

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Systematic
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by Systematic »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:46 pm

WOW! thanks for your views Sir.

I've not read Proverbs of Solomon, looks like i need to take the time to read that work!
Important things to remember about the Proverbs of Solomon:

They are often good habits (i.e. repetitive action).

He was almost never logical; he was more intuitive. For example, "Wise men do this." is more akin to "It is usually wise to do this." in Aristotelian Logic.

He was a king, more than a humanitarian.


Systematic wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:51 am I really think though, that Jesus was a real person. And, if he had lived longer, he would have become king of Judaea (Israel). He definitely seems to have a plan for doing that in the Gospel of Matthew. I think that the early Christians did the best they could with a bad situation (i.e. Jesus' execution). But the religion is based on Jesus' plan to take over Israel and turn it into a Utopia. I'm pretty sure that Jesus wasn't planning to die that day. And his plan for Judaea was cut short by his death, so the early christians inherited his kingdom--Paul especially. And Paul's teaching took up the void left after Jesus died, which Jesus himself was planning to do.
gaffo wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:46 pm
fully agree with your mentality of Jesus the man and his early followers.

I sense you like Saul though - if you noted my many posts since here - 3 yrs? - i loathe him, i think he is a phony egotistical opportunist (not into mencing words, that is my view of the man - but i know he is dead, and to accuse the dead in effect denies them a defense to the accusation (in this life at least). and ya, i could be wrong about him, all i have to go by is the written record he left and has survived to today.

HOWEVER! seeing you like Saul and I don't, I'd like to understand your views of him and why you like his letter, not so that i may be convinced i'm wrong about him (though if so i welcome correction), but so as to understand your veiwpoint on the man Saul and his works.

thanks for the smart reply Sir!
Where did you get the idea that I liked Saul/Paul? He just figures into the story of early Christianity, hence I mentioned him.
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Sculptor
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by Sculptor »

Systematic wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:35 am Christianity most definitely destroyed paganism. 30 years after the death of Jesus, all of the temples at Rome were abandoned by decree. And that was just the beginning of the onslaught.

However, Christianity was not just destructive to paganism. (I'm not pointing the finger here; maybe it was a coincidence of its popularity.)
Judaism as it existed 2000 years ago, is dead. There is no country where Judaism still exists in its integrity.

And, I would like to add, Judaism did not stop forming with the law of Moses. That is just the first five books of the Old Testament.

Of particular interest to me is Solomon (i.e. a genius of human sociology and psychology). But that is just one aspect of the diversity of ideas posed by ancient Judaism. A tradition that no longer exists.

And that's my take on the other side of Nietzsche's philological philosophy.
If that were true then no religion that was not invented last week no longer exists.
The thing about religions is that that change like the wind.
One dumb story about splitting a baby in half does not make Solomon a genius.

If you really think Judaism is dead, ask those idiots banging their heads against that wall. You know the ones who think all Palestinians should be burned at the stake.
Systematic
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by Systematic »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:07 pm

oh wow! interesting!.......damn now i have to find my King James Bible (its somewhere............only version i have and my preferred - not out of accuracy (though i do think it is technically accurate via translationed works (always loose a little in translation) - i think the KJB is an honest and good translated work) - i prefer it over the newer versions (which i assume are also good translations?) - simply because the "old english" reading seems more poetic to me personally than "common english" would for the same work.

but that's just me.
I was thinking of translating the Vulgate into modern English. It's the best translation imo.
gaffo wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:07 pm thanks for the perticualars above, now i will have to find my bible and read Matt............;-/. which requires mental effort/work and my nature is lazy, I shall try to overcome my nature and read matt again - eventually - being lazy (I know it will require another year or so to actually do so - but you planted your reply about the zodiacs (which i know nothing about either - though now much about The Zodiac killer - being a self absorbed fanatic about unsolved crimes and read the famous book by the San Fran cartoonist/and loved the movie by Fincher (top 10 of all time movies - and accurate) and no Author Allen was not the killer - though the cartoonist thought so - he was a "wannabe killer (and creep because he as a wannabe) - killed squirels as sport and got off on thinking folks though he was the Zodiac - lived off the real killer's coatails). the real killer will never be caught, and may be dead by now anyhow - the key to finding who he was (he being dead now for me is no biggie, I'd just like to know who he was - even if after the fact - for a mystery solved) is Riverside College, his first kill (Bates) was prob an aquatence - so that in and of itself narrows the field (and yes i do think the double stamp in the riverside letter is enough to assume its author was the latter Zodiac with his same said double stamp (OCD-type) years later, and yes i do think the underside desk "poem" was from the same killer of Bates/Zodiac, both the handwriing and the style are the same as the later handwritten letters.

got utterly off topic, sorry ;-).
:twisted: :shock:
Systematic
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by Systematic »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:22 am
Systematic wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:35 am Christianity most definitely destroyed paganism. 30 years after the death of Jesus, all of the temples at Rome were abandoned by decree. And that was just the beginning of the onslaught.

However, Christianity was not just destructive to paganism. (I'm not pointing the finger here; maybe it was a coincidence of its popularity.)
Judaism as it existed 2000 years ago, is dead. There is no country where Judaism still exists in its integrity.

And, I would like to add, Judaism did not stop forming with the law of Moses. That is just the first five books of the Old Testament.

Of particular interest to me is Solomon (i.e. a genius of human sociology and psychology). But that is just one aspect of the diversity of ideas posed by ancient Judaism. A tradition that no longer exists.

And that's my take on the other side of Nietzsche's philological philosophy.
If that were true then no religion that was not invented last week no longer exists.
The thing about religions is that that change like the wind.
One dumb story about splitting a baby in half does not make Solomon a genius.

If you really think Judaism is dead, ask those idiots banging their heads against that wall. You know the ones who think all Palestinians should be burned at the stake.
What if you consider that Solomon did not have a library of philosophers and psychologists to draw on? Is he still not a genius?
What if you consider that Moses did not have a degree in medicine? Is he still not a genius? If not, I can find you some wild boar to eat. Or we can go hug a leper. Not serious. Just making a point.

Maybe I can pivot a bit. My take away from this discussion, is this, what we know may be keeping us from what we could know. I don't prefer to live in the bronze age, but how smart do you have to be to get from where the Jews were, getting to even a semblance of knowledge? :idea:
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attofishpi
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by attofishpi »

Systematic wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:46 am
gaffo wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:07 pm

oh wow! interesting!.......damn now i have to find my King James Bible (its somewhere............only version i have and my preferred - not out of accuracy (though i do think it is technically accurate via translationed works (always loose a little in translation) - i think the KJB is an honest and good translated work) - i prefer it over the newer versions (which i assume are also good translations?) - simply because the "old english" reading seems more poetic to me personally than "common english" would for the same work.

but that's just me.
I was thinking of translating the Vulgate into modern English. It's the best translation imo.
gaffo wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:07 pm thanks for the perticualars above, now i will have to find my bible and read Matt............;-/. which requires mental effort/work and my nature is lazy, I shall try to overcome my nature and read matt again - eventually - being lazy (I know it will require another year or so to actually do so - but you planted your reply about the zodiacs (which i know nothing about either - though now much about The Zodiac killer - being a self absorbed fanatic about unsolved crimes and read the famous book by the San Fran cartoonist/and loved the movie by Fincher (top 10 of all time movies - and accurate) and no Author Allen was not the killer - though the cartoonist thought so - he was a "wannabe killer (and creep because he as a wannabe) - killed squirels as sport and got off on thinking folks though he was the Zodiac - lived off the real killer's coatails). the real killer will never be caught, and may be dead by now anyhow - the key to finding who he was (he being dead now for me is no biggie, I'd just like to know who he was - even if after the fact - for a mystery solved) is Riverside College, his first kill (Bates) was prob an aquatence - so that in and of itself narrows the field (and yes i do think the double stamp in the riverside letter is enough to assume its author was the latter Zodiac with his same said double stamp (OCD-type) years later, and yes i do think the underside desk "poem" was from the same killer of Bates/Zodiac, both the handwriing and the style are the same as the later handwritten letters.

got utterly off topic, sorry ;-).
:twisted: :shock:
You blokes - love reading your chat about the bible. I actually like a bit of occultism and zodiac stuff too - it all has its place in the LOG_IC of the God system.
Many years ago I bought an astrology book, while under the 'duress' of the system. Really interesting, the stuff about pisces nails me to a T. I read the other signs - nah they don't come anywhere near the accuracy - nothing mentioned about pisces was inaccurate in relation to myself.
When I read about other signs in relation to people I know, mmm....
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Sculptor
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by Sculptor »

Systematic wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:15 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:22 am
Systematic wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:35 am Christianity most definitely destroyed paganism. 30 years after the death of Jesus, all of the temples at Rome were abandoned by decree. And that was just the beginning of the onslaught.

However, Christianity was not just destructive to paganism. (I'm not pointing the finger here; maybe it was a coincidence of its popularity.)
Judaism as it existed 2000 years ago, is dead. There is no country where Judaism still exists in its integrity.

And, I would like to add, Judaism did not stop forming with the law of Moses. That is just the first five books of the Old Testament.

Of particular interest to me is Solomon (i.e. a genius of human sociology and psychology). But that is just one aspect of the diversity of ideas posed by ancient Judaism. A tradition that no longer exists.

And that's my take on the other side of Nietzsche's philological philosophy.
If that were true then no religion that was not invented last week no longer exists.
The thing about religions is that that change like the wind.
One dumb story about splitting a baby in half does not make Solomon a genius.

If you really think Judaism is dead, ask those idiots banging their heads against that wall. You know the ones who think all Palestinians should be burned at the stake.
What if you consider that Solomon did not have a library of philosophers and psychologists to draw on? Is he still not a genius?
A mythical character can have as many wise men in his employ as you can imagine.
What if you consider that Moses did not have a degree in medicine? Is he still not a genius? If not, I can find you some wild boar to eat. Or we can go hug a leper. Not serious. Just making a point.
Anyone who can manage to live for well over 150 years, and manage to write his own story and the story of the Jewish people after he dies is likely to be fictional.
He's not as cool as King Arthur, and a total clutz compared to Gandalf who could beat him with one hand tied behind his back.

Maybe I can pivot a bit. My take away from this discussion, is this, what we know may be keeping us from what we could know. I don't prefer to live in the bronze age, but how smart do you have to be to get from where the Jews were, getting to even a semblance of knowledge? :idea:
Your question is puzzling are you fishing for compliments for Jews in general?
Many Jews are great achievers; Marx, Einstein, Jacob Epstein, Michael Moorock , Stanley Kubrick, Spinoza,
A persecuted people tends to encourage only the most cunning, the richest and the smartest to survive. Maybe that is why "Jews" predict high as bankers, artists, thinkers, philosophers, and psychopaths? Traits that have enabled them to move and keep moving ahead of the pogroms, and persecutions; but also negative traits that itinerants thrive on such as Epstein and Weinstein.

But whoever the Jews are now, I do not think they are able to trace their ancestry back to the Middle East. Look to the Khazar empire I think.
Systematic
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by Systematic »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:44 am
Systematic wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:15 am

What if you consider that Solomon did not have a library of philosophers and psychologists to draw on? Is he still not a genius?
A mythical character can have as many wise men in his employ as you can imagine.

There's my problem. I thought he was a real person. I thought he actually reigned in Israel and wrote all those proverbs.
Systematic wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:15 am Maybe I can pivot a bit. My take away from this discussion, is this, what we know may be keeping us from what we could know. I don't prefer to live in the bronze age, but how smart do you have to be to get from where the Jews were, getting to even a semblance of knowledge? :idea:
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:44 am Your question is puzzling are you fishing for compliments for Jews in general?
Many Jews are great achievers; Marx, Einstein, Jacob Epstein, Michael Moorock , Stanley Kubrick, Spinoza,
A persecuted people tends to encourage only the most cunning, the richest and the smartest to survive. Maybe that is why "Jews" predict high as bankers, artists, thinkers, philosophers, and psychopaths? Traits that have enabled them to move and keep moving ahead of the pogroms, and persecutions; but also negative traits that itinerants thrive on such as Epstein and Weinstein.

But whoever the Jews are now, I do not think they are able to trace their ancestry back to the Middle East. Look to the Khazar empire I think.
It seemed to me to be the overlooked history of Christianity, for the most part, that the Jews, themselves, were converted into European culture. I got it from the inverse of Nietzsche's long conversion of the Pagans to Christianity.

Marx--Atheist; Einstein--might as well be atheist; Kubrick--a witch, I guess; Spinoza--kicked out of Judaism. Don't know for the other two.

That's the point I was making with the thread, when I started.

As far as the last part about genius in the bronze age. You could point to several "heathen" geniuses as well. When you don't have knowledge to progress toward (e.g. scholastics), you have opportunity. I find a lot of people today, tempted to say: "Bronze age stupidity." When, pulling one's self up by the bootstraps is rather difficult.

TL;DR: The Jews were likely Europized. Bronze age: an opportunity to make your own knowledge.
Systematic
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by Systematic »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:38 am

You blokes - love reading your chat about the bible. I actually like a bit of occultism and zodiac stuff too - it all has its place in the LOG_IC of the God system.
Many years ago I bought an astrology book, while under the 'duress' of the system. Really interesting, the stuff about pisces nails me to a T. I read the other signs - nah they don't come anywhere near the accuracy - nothing mentioned about pisces was inaccurate in relation to myself.
When I read about other signs in relation to people I know, mmm....
Pisces: I will make you fishers of men. I forgot that one.

Who of you, if his son ask for a fish, will give him a scorpion? That's pisces and scorpio.

Sun in Pisces: actual astronomy: March 11th till April 17th

Age of Pisces: We're in the midst.

Thank you attofishpi, for your thorough disproof of what Seventeen magazine told you astrology to be!
gaffo
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by gaffo »

Systematic wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:14 am
gaffo wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:46 pm

WOW! thanks for your views Sir.

I've not read Proverbs of Solomon, looks like i need to take the time to read that work!
Important things to remember about the Proverbs of Solomon:

They are often good habits (i.e. repetitive action).

He was almost never logical; he was more intuitive. For example, "Wise men do this." is more akin to "It is usually wise to do this." in Aristotelian Logic.

He was a king, more than a humanitarian.


Systematic wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:51 am I really think though, that Jesus was a real person. And, if he had lived longer, he would have become king of Judaea (Israel). He definitely seems to have a plan for doing that in the Gospel of Matthew. I think that the early Christians did the best they could with a bad situation (i.e. Jesus' execution). But the religion is based on Jesus' plan to take over Israel and turn it into a Utopia. I'm pretty sure that Jesus wasn't planning to die that day. And his plan for Judaea was cut short by his death, so the early christians inherited his kingdom--Paul especially. And Paul's teaching took up the void left after Jesus died, which Jesus himself was planning to do.
gaffo wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:46 pm
fully agree with your mentality of Jesus the man and his early followers.

I sense you like Saul though - if you noted my many posts since here - 3 yrs? - i loathe him, i think he is a phony egotistical opportunist (not into mencing words, that is my view of the man - but i know he is dead, and to accuse the dead in effect denies them a defense to the accusation (in this life at least). and ya, i could be wrong about him, all i have to go by is the written record he left and has survived to today.

HOWEVER! seeing you like Saul and I don't, I'd like to understand your views of him and why you like his letter, not so that i may be convinced i'm wrong about him (though if so i welcome correction), but so as to understand your veiwpoint on the man Saul and his works.

thanks for the smart reply Sir!
Where did you get the idea that I liked Saul/Paul? He just figures into the story of early Christianity, hence I mentioned him.
Saul was indeed an early figure in christianity - and today make up 3/4 of it - the remander is Gosp of John IMO.

in one the above posts i thought you like him, if not, my error on the matter.

no biggie, my bad.

peace to you.
gaffo
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Re: Judaism No Longer Exists

Post by gaffo »

Systematic wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:26 pm
attofishpi wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:38 am

You blokes - love reading your chat about the bible. I actually like a bit of occultism and zodiac stuff too - it all has its place in the LOG_IC of the God system.
Many years ago I bought an astrology book, while under the 'duress' of the system. Really interesting, the stuff about pisces nails me to a T. I read the other signs - nah they don't come anywhere near the accuracy - nothing mentioned about pisces was inaccurate in relation to myself.
When I read about other signs in relation to people I know, mmm....
Pisces: I will make you fishers of men. I forgot that one.

https://archive.org/details/VPoint/VP_8 ... nforth.mp3

fishies of men.

lol.
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