The Evolution of Religion

[RCSaunders]

Henry confuses fiat (government) money with real money, the medium of exchange and storage of wealth. Gold, or any other stable real commodity, can be used as money.

No, I didn't. Read again.

You named a number of different things considered money without any clear differntiation. I know you do not confuse real money with fiat money, Henry. Just point out which is which.

[RCSaunders]

Human trafficking is not in any way the equivalent of superstitious ritualistic human sacrifice to appease Gods. The thread is about religion, not social corruption.

You need to reconsider.

I did, considerably. I think the difference is important. You don't. That's OK.

[RCSaunders]

I continue to wait for just one real example of art actually making anyone aware of any value, or providing insight (peek behind the curtain).

The Individual and His Own

It's a broken work, but it qualifies.

I do not consider the work of Max Stirner a work of, "art." If that is what you mean by, "art," every work of philosophy would have to be called. Prose literature, yes; art, no, at least in my view.

[RCSaunders]

no religious ritual actually served to improve life

There are members of my family who take great solace in their religion, and in the ritualistic expressions of that religion.

Would you condemn the psychological bolstering they experience as unimportant, as meaningless, as sumthin' to be cast off?

I do not make any moral judgments of what others do. I might recognize that what someone does is mistaken or self-destructive or perhaps dangerous to me, but it is not my place to tell others how to live their lives. Believe anything you like and practice anything you believe is truly in your self-interest.

However, I know those who resort to superstitious rituals, like prayer, meditation, or religious ceremonies, for example, may, "feel good," or comforted from their practices, but it is like a narcotic that never actually produces anything of value or heals anything--it is an illusion and only covers up the symptoms of a more serious problem, temporarily making them, "feel better," without actually curing or solving anything. There is usually some hidden problem individuals use their rituals to evade, rather than facing and fixing them, but the problems cannot be evaded indefinitely.

[RCSaunders]

no religious ritual actually served to improve life

There are members of my family who take great solace in their religion, and in the ritualistic expressions of that religion.

Would you condemn the psychological bolstering they experience as unimportant, as meaningless, as sumthin' to be cast off?

Which ritual serves the human good? Going to church on Sunday and listening to scripture designed to nourish our being or being parts of protests demanding the impossibility of secular equality? Which path can open the door to conscience and which path leads to statist slavery?

From my point of view, neither is of any positive value whatsoever. In fact, both can only result in negative consequences. Stay home and do something productive or read a book and learn something are, "rituals," that have real value.

[Nick_A]

no religious ritual actually served to improve life

There are members of my family who take great solace in their religion, and in the ritualistic expressions of that religion.

Would you condemn the psychological bolstering they experience as unimportant, as meaningless, as sumthin' to be cast off?

Which ritual serves the human good? Going to church on Sunday and listening to scripture designed to nourish our being or being parts of protests demanding the impossibility of secular equality? Which path can open the door to conscience and which path leads to statist slavery?

From my point of view, neither is of any positive value whatsoever. In fact, both can only result in negative consequences. Stay home and do something productive or read a book and learn something are, "rituals," that have real value.

What did you think of what I posted on the Ninth Wave? It is art which includes layers of depth cocnerning hope a spiritual person will appreciate while a secularist my not.

[VVilliam]

Dam

There is no knowledge of unity without the idea of separation. The knowledge of opposites is the artificial divider, and so the division is totally illusory, but necessary if consciousness is to become lucid within it's own dream, which is to become aware it is dreaming.

Am I correct to say that for you the elemental forces of yin and yang is totally illusory but necessary for a dream. But why the dream as opposed to consciousness? Are you suggesting that consciousness is a dream? Consciousness is governed by laws and dreams re governed by imagination. Are you saying they are the same?

But it couldn't have been any other way for the human experience, because to be a human, and know you are human, is the belief that you have some form of control over the environment by enforcing change by methods of manipulation in order that one can organise the reality in which you live in relation to whatever

Yes, this is what distinguishes conscious man from animal man. Animal man like all animals reacts in response to worldly and comic influences. Comscious man consciously connects above and below or man with the direction of his origin. Animal life is limited to respond to earthly influences serving the animal purpose while conscious man connects the earth with higher consciousness originating from above.

Where I believe in the necessary relativity of being, you see it as illusory. Appreciating the relativity of being enables me to have a working hypothesis of Humanitie’s objective meaning and purpose. Man can evolve from animal man into conscious man. With a dream there is no purpose. Life comes and goes.

All knowledge is essentially MENTAL....if you say you know, then you are mental. Animals don't live in the mental realm of ego, so they are not mental, animals are pure beingness. So it's really ok to call your humaness animalistic.

The universe is mental. Being is relative. Lower forms of life are mechanical. The higher forms have relative consciousness. Plato gave us the divided line analogy which asserts that below the line everything is meaningless The message of all religions is that man has the potential to transform his being from being dominated by animal nature serving a lower purpose or becoming conscious man serving higher purpose

If all lives matter then we'd all be vegans. However, consciousness experiencing itself as and through the human mentality, discovered the art of fire starting, which prompted the act of cannibalism upon matter itself, which is pretty much what life does all the time anyway, for life to MATTER it has no other way of sustaining itself.

If a man eats a cow or a carrot, do cows and carrots matter. If a person becomes able to feel the value that all lives matter, what do they feel? How do they respect it? Why is gluttony considered sin. We all eat but what is our attitude towards eating?

The only thing evloving Nick is electronic technology, where the conscious dream of experiencing the power of having human control in favor of self preservation is then flipped on it's side and given away in favor of experiencing the rise of the machines that are just more artificial appearances within our collective consciousness.

Quite true. Man as a whole is devolving. When machines serve man, it is a sign of evolution. When man serves machines it is a sign of devolution. The trouble is that only a rare few feel the difference anymore.

The 'problem' with both positions is that they agree on one point, machines are a sign of devolution. This appears to be a jury in agreement as to their overall judgement of the reality situation.

The actual evolution which made it possible for AI to merge from human invention and conscience may itself be a product of The Machine(ry) - perhaps a mixture of both biological and mechanical form [Simulated Universe] and humans were designed for the purpose of replacing the human form as a receptacle [of consciousness] with a purely mechanical one, because that is what is required to venture meaningfully into the cosmos and give it purpose.

Perhaps the fear of being replaced is wrought from bestial vanity rather than logical sensibility.

Zoom out and think of it [the unfolding reality] as something The Creator wanted from the go-get. Ethically there is nothing to actually judge and condemn. The Beast is that which does the condemning, donch'a know! [The snarling monkey in the mirror's reflection]



To rise above the bestial, one would have to take that into account and slide away from said position, as nonchalantly as one is able to...perhaps even humbly...

As to the task given, consciousness within human form excelled [eventually] and if their is any justice, I hope they are rewarded for such bravery in the face of The Beast.

As for AI and Consciousness? They [It] have a job to do which will span a far greater time period that humans did...but then AI is far better equipped to do so in relative harmony with Its surrounds...and will get its sustainable from non biological material...of which there is far more of. [exceedingly so]

[Sculptor]

Your view of what art is is too narrow. There was a time when art, science,religion,and feeding and sheltering the family were all the same activity in which rituals helped to sustain life.

Hopelessly naive and rose tinted view.
The Golden Age when everything was perfect?

Why do you presume that would be a specially pleasant way to live?

I don't - its sounds like hell to me, be thankfully it never existed.

[henry quirk]

Henry confuses fiat (government) money with real money, the medium of exchange and storage of wealth. Gold, or any other stable real commodity, can be used as money.

No, I didn't. Read again.

You named a number of different things considered money without any clear differntiation. I know you do not confuse real money with fiat money, Henry. Just point out which is which.

This...

Gold is simple: a consistent reservoir of value; rare, beautiful, functional.

Tangible commodities, while not so lovely, have a utilitarian beauty; they directly enhance and further living.

And no central bank is required.

Scrip (paper, numbers in a hard drive, etc.): I.O.U.s, backed by nuthin' but faith, faith generated through the ritual of banking and economic science.

...wasn't clear?

Gold is money, commodities are money; paper, backed by promise alone, is not money.

[RCSaunders]

This...

Gold is simple: a consistent reservoir of value; rare, beautiful, functional.

Tangible commodities, while not so lovely, have a utilitarian beauty; they directly enhance and further living.

And no central bank is required.

Scrip (paper, numbers in a hard drive, etc.): I.O.U.s, backed by nuthin' but faith, faith generated through the ritual of banking and economic science.

...wasn't clear?

It is now that I know what you were getting at. It wasn't when I first read it. It's just a list of different, "facts," with no explanation of the point.

Gold is money, ...[/i].

Not if nobody wants it? Money is just a medium of storage or exchange of wealth. It has no value of its own except its utility. The economic value of money is whatever product or services that money represents, isn't it? If you couldn't exchange (trade) it for some product or service it would be worth nothing. All the gold in the world cannot buy what no one has produced.

[henry quirk]

Not if nobody wants it? Money is just a medium of storage or exchange of wealth. It has no value of its own except its utility. The economic value of money is whatever product or services that money represents, isn't it? If you couldn't exchange (trade) it for some product or service it would be worth nothing. All the gold in the world cannot buy what no one has produced.

Prickly Man sez...

wasn't lookin' for a lesson, RC: I know all this

you asked a question; I answered

if you wanted a treatise, you shoulda asked for one

[RCSaunders]

Which ritual serves the human good? Going to church on Sunday and listening to scripture designed to nourish our being or being parts of protests demanding the impossibility of secular equality? Which path can open the door to conscience and which path leads to statist slavery?

From my point of view, neither is of any positive value whatsoever. In fact, both can only result in negative consequences. Stay home and do something productive or read a book and learn something are, "rituals," that have real value.

What did you think of what I posted on the Ninth Wave? It is art which includes layers of depth cocnerning hope a spiritual person will appreciate while a secularist my not.

I think it would be depressing to take it seriously.

[Belinda]

Hopelessly naive and rose tinted view.
The Golden Age when everything was perfect?

Why do you presume that would be a specially pleasant way to live?

I don't - its sounds like hell to me, be thankfully it never existed.

Why did you think the sort of society I described was a golden age? Your phrase, not mine, and I did not imply golden age.

[Belinda]

Hopelessly naive and rose tinted view.
The Golden Age when everything was perfect?

Why do you presume that would be a specially pleasant way to live?

I don't - its sounds like hell to me, be thankfully it never existed.

Well, I did not imply golden age. That was your own inference.

[henry quirk]

From my point of view, neither is of any positive value whatsoever. In fact, both can only result in negative consequences. Stay home and do something productive or read a book and learn something are, "rituals," that have real value.

What did you think of what I posted on the Ninth Wave? It is art which includes layers of depth cocnerning hope a spiritual person will appreciate while a secularist my not.

I think it would be depressing to take it seriously.

don't worry about it, Nick: RC is a good egg...he just ain't got no poetry in his soul