do people choose their religion?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Abdulrahman Adel
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do people choose their religion?

Post by Abdulrahman Adel » Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm

If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?

Dontaskme
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am

Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
God is just another word for LIFE.
LIFE is the aware state that is known conceptually by life itself.

There is no knowledge of the death state. There is no awareness of it, so it's not even known what it is, or whether it exits. It's just an idea.

Life on the other hand is known as awareness itself, and this life is a serial killer with no sense of right or wrong, justice, purpose, value or morals. All known concepts are fictional ideas pulled out of the ethers by no thing. They are an overlay upon REALITY exactly as it is prior to the overlay model artificially placed upon it by nothing. The overlay model is like trying to put a bandaid upon a totally broken body in the attempt to fix it. This fix and break and fix cycle repeats forever, any attempt to fix what is always breaking is futile.

Life is just a chaotic brutal meat grinding machine grinding away on itself until it finally succumbs to entrophy, and even as this is known, it is not experience we can ever experience because we are not separate from this daily grind from the perspective of a human experience. No human has ever witnessed the start or the end of the entire universe ..for humans only showed up a few seconds ago within the grand scheme of eternity.

There is nothing to comfort the human from this horror show that is life itself, for there is nothing to comfort, save or rescue any life forms from the raging violent storm that is life itelf. Death is our only refuge.

Life is a pathway to deterioration.

“Lo, sleep is good, better is death--in sooth
The best of all were never to be born.”
― Heinrich Heine

.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am

Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
In the first place, it is it is impossible for God to exists as real empirically and philosophically. The idea of God [illusory] emerged out of the consciousness of theists to deal with an inherent existential crisis. Thus God is a human invention.

Humans comprised of good and evil prone people of various degrees from low to high.

Where a God is invented by good people, that God will be benevolent and compassionate to all, i.e. theists and non-theists.

Where a God is invented by evil prone people, such a god will punish believers where they sin and imposed the various kind of punishments [evil acts] on non-believers.

Where the degree of evil from the theists is low, their God will be less evil and will command lower degrees of punishments and evil acts upon believers and non-believers.
Example, the GOD is the NT even command believers to love their enemies, neighbors, and all others.

Where a God is invented by highly evil people, their God will be attributed [in the respective invented holy texts] with a high degree of evil propensity, i.e. even that God will even command believers [theists] to kill, massacre non-believers where they are a threat to the respective religion.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Mon May 25, 2020 9:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

Dontaskme
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon May 25, 2020 8:59 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
Thus God is a human invention.
Thus human is also an invention...and so for arguments sake, lets call the nameless one human and make him God.

God is no ones relative. But the invention of human will make a relative out of it's own nothingness.

Averroes
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Averroes » Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am

Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
What is your evidence for saying most people do not choose their religion? I know a lot many people who have chosen to convert to another religion than the one they were raised into. For example consider Islam. Originally Islam was in Arabia and before Islam spread to other parts of the world, most Muslims were Arabs. But nowadays, most Muslims in the world are non-Arabs. As a matter of fact, Muslim Arabs are a minority in Islam nowadays. Most Muslims in the world nowadays are Asians whose ancestors converted to Islam from Hinduism and Buddhism. For example, the largest Muslim country by population in the world nowadays is Indonesia (and nearby Malaysia). There are about 225 million Muslims in Indonesia and about 20 millions in Malaysia. Before Islam spread to Indonesia and Malaysia by a handful of Muslim sailors who spread the religion of Islam in that region, the early inhabitants of these regions were mostly Hindus and or Buddhists. But nowadays Hinduism and Buddhism is a minority religion in those regions. All these people have chosen Islam over Hinduism and Buddhism.

And nowadays still many people are embracing Islam after they hear the message of Islam explained to them as the early Indonesians and Malaysians did. Here are a couple of videos of whole tribes of people embracing Islam from remote regions of the world:

Matigsalug tribe in Philippines: https://youtu.be/DbRSgHSNuRw
More conversions in Philippines: https://youtu.be/YfIP2yL5yyQ
Papua New Guinea : https://youtu.be/qkXDWw8sMxU

And there are many more others.

I think your premise that most people do not chose their religion because of the religion of their forefathers is wrong. I think that most people who remain in the religion of their parents have chosen so and have not been forced to do so. And similarly those who change as well have chosen to do so.

Impenitent
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Impenitent » Mon May 25, 2020 6:09 pm

if people were trees they would be-leaf...

one is what they do- religiously...

-Imp

gaffo
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by gaffo » Mon May 25, 2020 8:55 pm

no.

they adopt the religion of the culture they were born into.

to answer your question.

gaffo
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by gaffo » Mon May 25, 2020 8:56 pm

Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
your 1st post i see, welcome to this forum Sir.

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henry quirk
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by henry quirk » Tue May 26, 2020 1:11 am

gaffo wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:55 pm
no.

they adopt the religion of the culture they were born into.

to answer your question.
Some do, some don't.

I, for example, was raised catholic, spent most of my adult life as an indifferent atheist/agnostic, and am now a somewhat less indifferent deist.

Age
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Age » Tue May 26, 2020 4:03 am

Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
But as an adult human being you choose absolutely EVERY thing. This is the exact opposite for children though. Children have absolutely NO choice in what they experience, what is forced upon them, in what they think, nor in what they do.

Now, how exactly do you propose God supposedly rewards/punishes ANY human being?

Age
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Age » Tue May 26, 2020 4:47 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
God is just another word for LIFE.
LIFE is the aware state that is known conceptually by life itself.

There is no knowledge of the death state.
Yes there is.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
There is no awareness of it, so it's not even known what it is, or whether it exits.
Yes there does.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
It's just an idea.
Just like 'what life is' is just an idea, which can be and is very different among different people, and can be very different with one person, at different stages, in Life.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
Life on the other hand is known as awareness itself,
To some people.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
and this life is a serial killer
To be able to 'kill' then there needs to be a death state, which you just got through telling us all that whether a death state even exists or not is unknown. In fact you just got through telling us that a 'death state' "is just an idea".
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
with no sense of right or wrong, justice, purpose, value or morals.
If you have not yet worked out what is right or wrong, justice, purpose, value or morals, then so be it. But some "others" have worked all of this out, already.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
All known concepts are fictional ideas pulled out of the ethers by no thing.
But some concepts are of actual factual things, which came from the thinking brain of the actual thing, commonly known as; human being.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
They are an overlay upon REALITY exactly as it is prior to the overlay model artificially placed upon it by nothing.
So, if there is a REALITY, with REAL things, then they do not necessarily only have to have concepts of fictional ideas. REAL things can perceive, and thus conceive, of REAL things, some times.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
The overlay model is like trying to put a bandaid upon a totally broken body in the attempt to fix it. This fix and break and fix cycle repeats forever, any attempt to fix what is always breaking is futile.
But just LOOKING, just SEEING (understanding), and just EXPRESSING (explaining) is NOT necessarily attempting to fix any thing up at all.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
Life is just a chaotic brutal meat grinding machine grinding away on itself until it finally succumbs to entrophy, and even as this is known, it is not experience we can ever experience because we are not separate from this daily grind from the perspective of a human experience.
And to some "other" people, Life is the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Life, and being Aware of Life, and living Itself, is a Truly amazing, beautiful experience. Life, to some, is literally wonderful, and thus full-of-wonder. Life is also eternal and infinite to these people. They have not yet grown to become narrowed and closed. These people experience EVERY experience EXACTLY how it is. This is because they are One with Life, Itself.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
No human has ever witnessed the start or the end of the entire universe ..for humans only showed up a few seconds ago within the grand scheme of eternity.
Just how could there be a start or the end of the entire Universe if there is a grand scheme of 'eternity'?
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
There is nothing to comfort the human from this horror show that is life itself,
There is also nothing to discomfort some human beings from this horror concept from just one human being, which from their own understanding is their own fictional idea of Life Itself anyway.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
for there is nothing to comfort, save or rescue any life forms from the raging violent storm that is life itelf. Death is our only refuge.
But Life, Itself, does not die.

Also, is that 'death', which is supposedly your only refuge, the same 'death state' that is, to you, not even known and "is just an idea"?
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
Life is a pathway to deterioration.
Obviously not if It is eternal, Itself.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 7:48 am
“Lo, sleep is good, better is death--in sooth
The best of all were never to be born.”
― Heinrich Heine

.
The best were born.
The better are Aware.

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Lacewing
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Lacewing » Tue May 26, 2020 4:51 am

Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
Similar to what Henry said, I'd say some stick with what they're born into, some choose something different, some try all different paths throughout their lives, and some have no use for any of it.

In response to your question, however, which you seem to be suggesting as well: it makes no sense that a perceived god of any religion would punish or reward someone for a religion they were born into. It also makes no sense that a god would reward "believers" who distort and misuse a religion/beliefs -- while the same god would punish good-hearted, honest people who don't subscribe to the religion/beliefs. Doesn't it matter MORE who you are as a person/being than what you claim to be affiliated with?

Age
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Age » Tue May 26, 2020 4:59 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
In the first place, it is it is impossible for God to exists as real empirically and philosophically.
Firstly, this is obviously false, as shown and evidenced in the illogically unsound and invalid argument form in that post.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
The idea of God [illusory] emerged out of the consciousness of theists to deal with an inherent existential crisis.
Obviously 'the idea of God' did not emerge out of the consciousness of theists, for any reason.

To be a 'theist' one obviously already has to have 'the idea of God' FIRST.

The opposite is actually True. A 'theist' emerges out of a conscious idea of God.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
Thus God is a human invention.
The word 'God' obviously derived from thinking human beings. But what these human beings are referring to with the use of the word God has always existed, which obviously pre-existed human beings.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
Humans comprised of good and evil prone people of various degrees from low to high.
ALL human beings are obviously capable of all sorts of things.

No human being, itself, is good nor bad. Human beings just do good or bad things.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
Where a God is invented by good people, that God will be benevolent and compassionate to all, i.e. theists and non-theists.

Where a God is invented by evil prone people, such a god will punish believers where they sin and imposed the various kind of punishments [evil acts] on non-believers.
How do you differentiate these so called "good" people from these so called "evil prone people"?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
Where the degree of evil from the theists is low, their God will be less evil and will command lower degrees of punishments and evil acts upon believers and non-believers.
Example, the GOD is the NT even command believers to love their enemies, neighbors, and all others.
So, are you saying you believe in all this stuff?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
Where a God is invented by highly evil people, their God will be attributed [in the respective invented holy texts] with a high degree of evil propensity, i.e. even that God will even command believers [theists] to kill, massacre non-believers where they are a threat to the respective religion.
Is it at all possible that some people have misconstrued and misunderstood what the words 'kill', 'believers' and/or 'non-believers' means exactly?

Age
Posts: 4464
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by Age » Tue May 26, 2020 5:17 am

Averroes wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am
Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
What is your evidence for saying most people do not choose their religion? I know a lot many people who have chosen to convert to another religion than the one they were raised into.
'Most' means not all but more than half.

Most people, not all but more than half of the people, in childhood, do not choose the religion they are born into and are dealt.
Averroes wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am
For example consider Islam. Originally Islam was in Arabia and before Islam spread to other parts of the world, most Muslims were Arabs. But nowadays, most Muslims in the world are non-Arabs. As a matter of fact, Muslim Arabs are a minority in Islam nowadays. Most Muslims in the world nowadays are Asians whose ancestors converted to Islam from Hinduism and Buddhism. For example, the largest Muslim country by population in the world nowadays is Indonesia (and nearby Malaysia). There are about 225 million Muslims in Indonesia and about 20 millions in Malaysia. Before Islam spread to Indonesia and Malaysia by a handful of Muslim sailors who spread the religion of Islam in that region, the early inhabitants of these regions were mostly Hindus and or Buddhists. But nowadays Hinduism and Buddhism is a minority religion in those regions. All these people have chosen Islam over Hinduism and Buddhism.

And nowadays still many people are embracing Islam after they hear the message of Islam explained to them as the early Indonesians and Malaysians did.
So, are you suggesting that "nowadays" there are still many people who are as easily persuaded, as early people did, to follow a religion/teaching that the religious and/or teachers of it still cannot clearly explain?
Averroes wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am
Here are a couple of videos of whole tribes of people embracing Islam from remote regions of the world:

Matigsalug tribe in Philippines: https://youtu.be/DbRSgHSNuRw
More conversions in Philippines: https://youtu.be/YfIP2yL5yyQ
Papua New Guinea : https://youtu.be/qkXDWw8sMxU

And there are many more others.
And there are some "others" who actually question and/or challenge the things, which they are told.
Averroes wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am
I think your premise that most people do not chose their religion because of the religion of their forefathers is wrong.
You maybe right in regards to most adults. But the word 'adult' was not used. The word 'people' was used.

ALL human beings were once 'children'. ALL children have no choice in what is told to them, what religion they "introduced" to, or forced to listen to, and thus forced into. But EVERY 'adult' chooses their religion. So, although EVERY adult chooses their religion and NO child chooses their religion. NO person is able to choose their religion, as a young child. From this perspective, or in this sense, most people do not chose their religion at all. But every person in adulthood chooses their religion. Unfortunately though EVERY adult, because of their childhood, has a very limited set of choices to choose from.

Obviously with thousands of years of evidence and proof, NONE of these religions alone are really worth even 'choosing', nor following, at all.
Averroes wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am
I think that most people who remain in the religion of their parents have chosen so and have not been forced to do so. And similarly those who change as well have chosen to do so.
NO adult person is forced to choose. EVERY adult person has obviously chosen their "chosen religion".

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stacie
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Re: do people choose their religion?

Post by stacie » Tue May 26, 2020 7:04 pm

Abdulrahman Adel wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:06 pm
If most humans live and die with the religion that they are born with from their family or society that they didn't choose, how come God rewards/punishes us for something that we didn't even choose?
You can extend the argument further and say that since the circumstances that we come to in the world are not under our control, much that follows is not under our control either. If you are the first-born son of a Mafia boss, how much choice do you really have to not become a mobster?

Perhaps God punishes / rewards us based on what we do control - which is different for everyone. What is a perfectly ordinary act for one person (e.g. being helpful to someone in a small way with no expectation of benefit), may be an act of extraordinary kindness for someone who grew up with nothing but violence and cruelty and selfishness around them. (Didn't C.S. Lewis write about that?)

So yes, the idea that God just looks at someone and says "Oh, that person belongs to the wrong religion, off to hell with them!" is bonkers.

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