God given rights. Do you really have any?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Age
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Age »

Greatest I am wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:05 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:58 am

God is NOT a "he", by the way, and NEVER was.
I will nor argue against this unprovable statement.
LOL "unprovable statement".

The reason you 'will' not is because you 'can' NOT.

Obviously if you could, then you WOULD. But, considering you can NOT you shall NOT.

Alleging that my statement is an "unprovable statement" is just an attempt to deflect away from your inability to argue against it.
Greatest I am wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:05 pm How can you know this as a fact?
Because of what 'God' could ONLY BE, and therefore what God ACTUALLY IS.
Greatest I am wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:05 pm Have you accessed the supernatural realm where god resides?
There is NO so called "supernatural" realm. There is only this One VERY natural realm, and there could ONLY BE this One VERY natural realm, OBVIOUSLY. Which by the way is where God actually IS, and RESIDES.
Greatest I am wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:05 pm Or was yout comment more of a knee jerk response?

Regards
DL
Calling God a "he" was, and still is, just a, so called, "knee jerk" response. Calling God a "he" is a response done by those who perceive males as being dominate and/or superior.

To think that A God, Itself, would be, or even could be, in the form of a "male" is just a result of anthropomorphism, absurdity, and an inability to LOOK AT and SEE what thee actual Truth IS.
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henry quirk
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Dubious

Post by henry quirk »

What does conscience have to do with my statement of no god.

I asked you "politely" for context

tell me what the connection is or get the fuck lost.

You wrote...

There never was a god in all of history who appeared based on its own credentials and didn't require a host of scribes to affirm its existence.

...yeah?

There's your connection, your context.

But: no worries...you invited me to get the fuck lost...I'm happy to oblige.
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Lacewing
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Re: Dubious

Post by Lacewing »

henry quirk to Dubious wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:56 pm
Dubious wrote:What does conscience have to do with my statement of no god.

I asked you "politely" for context

tell me what the connection is or get the fuck lost.
You wrote...

There never was a god in all of history who appeared based on its own credentials and didn't require a host of scribes to affirm its existence.

There's your connection, your context.
That doesn't show the connection/context you're claiming, Henry. You're just saying crap and then not owning it. Nothing new for you, I know, but at least be honest about it. Dubious made a truthful and reasonable statement. Why did you ask if he has a conscience? Try to come up with your own words to explain your own crap, rather than pointing back at Dubious and saying there's the explanation. If you felt your question/comment was important enough to say, EXPLAIN IT and stop playing chickenshit games.
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henry quirk
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lace

Post by henry quirk »

still kickin' I see

how unfortunate
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Luxin
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Luxin »

Yes, if God's Virtue is in me. If Love is in me, I have the right (power) to be loved.
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Lacewing
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Re: lace

Post by Lacewing »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:54 pm still kickin' I see

how unfortunate
That's not very nice. Why can't you explain the things you say, when people ask you to explain them? Your comment/question seemed to make no sense, and all you can do is throw it back on people. Geez, Henry, take some fucking responsibility for the things you say.
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Greatest I am
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Greatest I am »

Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:41 pm God never gave any rights; neither has he subtracted any. It's non-existence offers the same conclusion. One's rights is usually determined by status which has nothing to do with merit.
I will not argue against this.

We tend to take rights to ourselves as they cannot be given, as you say. That does, in a sense, depend on the merit of the individual who takes those rights. As I said though, we have no real argument, just a slightly different way of looking at rights. So do authorities.

Take the right to pursue happiness. To some, that happiness is based in part on drugs of some type. Coffee to cocaine.

Choose coffee and all is well. Choose cocaine and you have a whole other situation.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Greatest I am »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:08 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:20 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:12 pm If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us.

As I reckon it: free will is double-edged; we get to choose & we get to live with the consequences of our choices (includin', especially, the bad ones).

And, I reckon it: the linchpin of rights is ownness (a person belongs to himself).

Finally: as I reckon it, God gave each the capacity to self-direct (free will), and the wherewithal to defend that capacity; if we fail in that self-defense, that's on us, not Him.
We must be reading different bibles as mine clearly shows that Yahweh does not give us a free will.

Do you dispute/deny all the quotes in this old O.P. of mine?

------------

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.


What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL
I'm a deist, not a christian.
That is irrelevant to the questions posed.

If you cannot analyse what was given, that is ok.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Greatest I am »

Age wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:25 pm

LOL and are REALLY 'trying to' suggest here that the so called "democratic" societies and political systems are NOT corrupt?
What I suggest is that we do not have any real democracies. We all live in oligarchies.

In that sense, yes, all our democracies are corrupt.

Have a look at what the U.S., as just one example, does.

https://www.upworthy.com/20-years-of-da ... b014efbf27

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Greatest I am »

Age wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:46 pm
The reason you 'will' not is because you 'can' NOT.
Correct, for the reason you later give that you were just a result of anthropomorphism.

Why you would complain, while showing why I did not bother, shows your strange way of thinking.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Greatest I am »

Luxin wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:00 pm Yes, if God's Virtue is in me. If Love is in me, I have the right (power) to be loved.
I hope god's virtues are not in you, --- if Yahweh is your god.

He is a genocidal p**** and I hope you are above such satanic acts and thinking.

You seem to think you have the power to make yourself loved by someone.

How do you exercise that power?

Regards
DL
Dubious
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:56 pm What does conscience have to do with my statement of no god.

I asked you "politely" for context

tell me what the connection is or get the fuck lost.

You wrote...

There never was a god in all of history who appeared based on its own credentials and didn't require a host of scribes to affirm its existence.

...yeah?

There's your connection, your context.

But: no worries...you invited me to get the fuck lost...I'm happy to oblige.
You often make these short trite statements you can't defend or explain but expect others to automatically acknowledge. That's not how debates work. If asked for clarification one expects to receive it to keep the conversation moving and ontrack...mostly. If you can't manage that then what the hell are you doing here?

...and I still have no idea what the connection is!
Dubious
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Dubious »

Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:28 pm
Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:41 pm God never gave any rights; neither has he subtracted any. It's non-existence offers the same conclusion. One's rights is usually determined by status which has nothing to do with merit.
I will not argue against this.

We tend to take rights to ourselves as they cannot be given, as you say. That does, in a sense, depend on the merit of the individual who takes those rights. As I said though, we have no real argument, just a slightly different way of looking at rights. So do authorities.

Take the right to pursue happiness. To some, that happiness is based in part on drugs of some type. Coffee to cocaine.

Choose coffee and all is well. Choose cocaine and you have a whole other situation.

Regards
DL
Rights is a big subject as it refers to humans by humans. There are all kinds of perspectives in that domain. However, as referring to god, it's a complete non-sequitur, a nil proposition without premise or substance. God never wrote a constitution or created laws, at least, not on this planet.

Rights are invariably invoked in laws. When its origins are human, it's secular; if by god, it's denoted as sacred, inviolable but to make it so we first have to claim its mandate came from god, in essence, giving us ultimate authority...by far the most potent enduring swindle in the entire history of the human race.
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henry quirk
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DL

Post by henry quirk »

Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:30 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:08 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:20 pm

We must be reading different bibles as mine clearly shows that Yahweh does not give us a free will.

Do you dispute/deny all the quotes in this old O.P. of mine?

------------

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.


What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL
I'm a deist, not a christian.
That is irrelevant to the questions posed.

If you cannot analyse what was given, that is ok.

Regards
DL
I disagree. You ask me to analyze sumthin' I have no interest in, am not invested in. In context: I offered my view on the subjects. That's all I care to do.
Age
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Age »

Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:40 pm
Age wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:25 pm

LOL and are REALLY 'trying to' suggest here that the so called "democratic" societies and political systems are NOT corrupt?
What I suggest is that we do not have any real democracies. We all live in oligarchies.

In that sense, yes, all our democracies are corrupt.

Have a look at what the U.S., as just one example, does.
No real need for me to look. I already agree with you here wholeheartedly.
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