God given rights. Do you really have any?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dubious
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Dubious »

God never gave any rights; neither has he subtracted any. It's non-existence offers the same conclusion. One's rights is usually determined by status which has nothing to do with merit.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:16 pm All that is said of an afterlife is speculative nonsense...
Perhaps it would be, if mankind made it up by guessing, and God Himself had not told us it was coming. But He would certainly know. So the question is, "Do we choose to believe God, or do we dismiss what He had told us?"

If you're right, you'll never know; if I'm right about this, we'll both know.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:41 pm God never gave any rights...
Upon what line of reasoning do you premise that claim?
Dubious
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:43 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:16 pm All that is said of an afterlife is speculative nonsense...
Perhaps it would be, if mankind made it up by guessing, and God Himself had not told us it was coming. But He would certainly know. So the question is, "Do we choose to believe God, or do we dismiss what He had told us?"

If you're right, you'll never know; if I'm right about this, we'll both know.
The first clause is wrong; the second is right.
Dubious
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:43 pm
Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:41 pm God never gave any rights...
Upon what line of reasoning do you premise that claim?
None that an unconditional god-believer such as thou would believe, so why even bother asking?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:53 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:43 pm
Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:41 pm God never gave any rights...
Upon what line of reasoning do you premise that claim?
None that an unconditional god-believer such as thou would believe, so why even bother asking?
Just to see if you actually DO have a line of reasoning, something that at least potentially could warrant your claim, or if you're just gassing.

It's the difference between having something to say, and having nothing to offer.
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henry quirk
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by henry quirk »

Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:20 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:12 pm If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us.

As I reckon it: free will is double-edged; we get to choose & we get to live with the consequences of our choices (includin', especially, the bad ones).

And, I reckon it: the linchpin of rights is ownness (a person belongs to himself).

Finally: as I reckon it, God gave each the capacity to self-direct (free will), and the wherewithal to defend that capacity; if we fail in that self-defense, that's on us, not Him.
We must be reading different bibles as mine clearly shows that Yahweh does not give us a free will.

Do you dispute/deny all the quotes in this old O.P. of mine?

------------

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.


What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL
I'm a deist, not a christian.
Dubious
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:57 pm
Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:53 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:43 pm
Upon what line of reasoning do you premise that claim?
None that an unconditional god-believer such as thou would believe, so why even bother asking?
Just to see if you actually DO have a line of reasoning, something that at least potentially could warrant your claim, or if you're just gassing.

It's the difference between having something to say, and having nothing to offer.
We've been through this so many times that you already know my position as I know yours. So again, why bother asking?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:10 pm So again, why bother asking?
To give you the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes, people come to think more precisely than they did at first, and don't stay inclined to make statements premised upon nothing at all.
Dubious
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:25 pm
Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:10 pm So again, why bother asking?
To give you the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes, people come to think more precisely than they did at first, and don't stay inclined to make statements premised upon nothing at all.
I gave reasons in all my prior posts. The rationalizations given require no amendments or you giving me the benefit of any doubts you presume I may have...but I thank you for the offer.

But for the hell of it to summarize, it couldn't be simpler...

There never was a god in all of history who appeared based on its own credentials and didn't require a host of scribes to affirm its existence. This is not merely a premise but a fact. However, all the stupid things people are desperate to believe is of no concern to me so believe what you like. It won't make any difference in the end either way!

It's NOT my opinion that it's a fact; it's a fact because there is no such event recorded since humans started writing to disprove it which conversely means there was never any proof for it from the very beginning!

The best a theist like yourself can do is heap a belief system on an empty premise based very literally on nothing at all. If that weren't the case, you wouldn't need to believe, you would know...but you probably already think you do and that's why debating with you is and remains completely useless.
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henry quirk
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by henry quirk »

Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:52 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:25 pm
Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:10 pm So again, why bother asking?
To give you the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes, people come to think more precisely than they did at first, and don't stay inclined to make statements premised upon nothing at all.
I gave reasons in all my prior posts. The rationalizations given require no amendments or you giving me the benefit of any doubts you presume I may have...but I thank you for the offer.

But for the hell of it to summarize, it couldn't be simpler...

There never was a god in all of history who appeared based on its own credentials and didn't require a host of scribes to affirm its existence. This is not merely a premise but a fact. However, all the stupid things people are desperate to believe is of no concern to me so believe what you like. It won't make any difference in the end either way!

It's NOT my opinion that it's a fact; it's a fact because there is no such event recorded since humans started writing to disprove it which conversely means there was never any proof for it from the very beginning!

The best a theist like yourself can do is heap a belief system on an empty premise based very literally on nothing at all. If that weren't the case, you wouldn't need to believe, you would know...but you probably already think you do and that's why debating with you is and remains completely useless.
Dub, do you have a conscience? If you do: please, tell me what it is.
Dubious
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:36 pm
Dubious wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:52 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:25 pm
To give you the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes, people come to think more precisely than they did at first, and don't stay inclined to make statements premised upon nothing at all.
I gave reasons in all my prior posts. The rationalizations given require no amendments or you giving me the benefit of any doubts you presume I may have...but I thank you for the offer.

But for the hell of it to summarize, it couldn't be simpler...

There never was a god in all of history who appeared based on its own credentials and didn't require a host of scribes to affirm its existence. This is not merely a premise but a fact. However, all the stupid things people are desperate to believe is of no concern to me so believe what you like. It won't make any difference in the end either way!

It's NOT my opinion that it's a fact; it's a fact because there is no such event recorded since humans started writing to disprove it which conversely means there was never any proof for it from the very beginning!

The best a theist like yourself can do is heap a belief system on an empty premise based very literally on nothing at all. If that weren't the case, you wouldn't need to believe, you would know...but you probably already think you do and that's why debating with you is and remains completely useless.
Dub, do you have a conscience? If you do: please, tell me what it is.
Please explain the question. I have no idea what you're trying to imply so tell me what you want to know!

In short, I don't get the connection!
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henry quirk
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Dub

Post by henry quirk »

Please explain the question. I have no idea what you're trying to imply so tell me what you want to know!

I swear, half to three quarters of every damn thread in this place is crap like this. Everyone is so friggin' afraid of bein' caught with their pants down they dissect everything.


In short, I don't get the connection!

You don't have to: this is a conversation, not a test.

Again...

Dub, do you have a conscience? If you do: please, tell me what it is.
Dubious
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Re: Dub

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:28 am Please explain the question. I have no idea what you're trying to imply so tell me what you want to know!

I swear, half to three quarters of every damn thread in this place is crap like this. Everyone is so friggin' afraid of bein' caught with their pants down they dissect everything.


In short, I don't get the connection!

You don't have to: this is a conversation, not a test.

Again...

Dub, do you have a conscience? If you do: please, tell me what it is.
What does conscience have to do with my statement of no god. Either tell me what the connection is or get the fuck lost. I asked you "politely" for context since I have no idea why you even asked this question given what I wrote or do you just go off on any tangent you like hoping to make a point you can't explain yourself!

Also, this thread is not about Dub but about god-given rights and whether such even exist. When you tie nose hairs to ass hairs only then do you have a conversation going!
Age
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Post by Age »

Greatest I am wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:02 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:58 am
Greatest I am wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 3:46 pm

What rights do you see as god given, and how does he enforce them when someone is denied those rights?
You would first have to understand how I define the word 'God'.

God is NOT a "he", by the way, and NEVER was.

God does NOT "force" nor "enforce" any thing. The consequences of actions/behavior works things out for themselves. So, if human beings are denying rights to living things, then things will work out how 'just', as they do.
Greatest I am wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 3:46 pm BTW, many constitutions have a life, liberty and security of the person written into their constitutions or social contracts.
Again, Do "other" people find it a coincidence that some people's views of 'God given rights' align with the ( written words/constitutions) of governments, or with the culture, of the country they are in?
Greatest I am wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 3:46 pm Most apply them better than the U.S., thanks to your corrupted political system.

Regards
DL
What do you mean by "your corrupted political system"? What exactly are you assuming here?

Also, how many actual constitutions have the words "Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness" in them?
IDK.

I have yet to read them all, but most, even though the wording might not be identical.
So, to know "most" means that you must have read the majority of all of them, correct?

Also, I asked how many have those actual words, which I spelled out, yet your answer comes back with "most, even though the wording might not be identical".

This is making what the actual CORRECT answer is far more obvious now.
Greatest I am wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:02 pm A constitution is a contract between the state and the citizen.
Which 'citizen'? You did use that word singularly.
Greatest I am wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:02 pm The citizens life is central to the contract. If it was not, it would not be worth signing on.
One person, in one particular period, signing some thing really means absolutely NOTHING and is not really worth any thing for ALL citizens lives.
Greatest I am wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:02 pm As to the corruption of your republic, it begins by being an oligarchy instead of a democratic republic.

Regards
DL
Again, what is with the 'your' word?

LOL and are REALLY 'trying to' suggest here that the so called "democratic" societies and political systems are NOT corrupt?
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