Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:41 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:50 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:13 am
They should have no trouble at all proving that case from the archaeological evidence. So where is this manuscript tradition they ought to expect?
I agree with the above.
Muslims are, in fact, very proud of the fact that Mohammed wrote no part of the Koran at all. He was, throughout his life, totally illiterate. And they claim that this proves a miracle; for how could a totally illiterate man have said so much "wisdom" if it were not miraculous? :shock:

Well, read the Koran, and you'll soon know how much "wisdom" is found therein. Heck, read even "The Book of Women" and you'll get a shock.

But Muslim historians don't deny that the Koran was assembled out of fragments of what other people said Mohammed said, and that they were collected after his death, and his "authentic" versus "inauthentic" pronouncements vetted by committee, and then the "inauthentic" fragments burned, and the rest rearranged in order of length. And, in fact, the many mistakes in the Koran -- its variances from Torah and the NT -- are what most needs explanation. Because Mohammed himself quoted Torah and the New Testament as authoritative...and if he did that, how does one explain that a fair bit of what he said, like the Ishmael-Isaac mistake, is not only not found in Torah or the NT, but is, in fact, flatly contradicted by the Torah and NT?

Essentially, then, Mohammed has undercut his own credibility: for he has insisted on the rightness of the Jewish and Christian sources, and then violated them in his errant repetition of some of what they say. He got them wrong. His memory was clearly flawed....not surprising, since he only ever heard them verbally, probably from the Nestorians, or some other sect of the period. In any case, Mohammed produced the variance between Torah and the NT, on the one hand, and the Koran on the other.

The "corrupted manuscript" theory was invented after the fact, as way of his followers insisting that it's the Koran that got it right, and the Jews and Christians are the ones who got it wrong, not the illiterate Mohammed or his later followers who edited the text.

Unfortunately for the Muslim "corrupted manuscript" explanation, there's zero archaeological or manuscript evidence for it, so it's an entirely historically gratuitous explanation.
I agree to the above.

What is worst is the corrupted Quran is loaded with an ethos of very malignant {edited} evil which influenced SOME % [but a large numbers] of Muslims to commit terrible evil and violent acts against non-Muslims.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Bible is corrupted.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:34 am

Averroes wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:59 pm
HexHammer wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:28 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am
Yadda yadda, bla bla ..bla
Jeremiah 8 8 How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us?’ But in fact, the lying pen of the scribes has produced a deception.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKp4yWGTfXo
This YouTube video is quite informative and interesting. It covered the notorious John 5:7 NT corruption quite concisely and accurately. I see in the video description that it is part 1 of 2, but I could not find part 2 on YT. Do you have the link or is it coming in a future video? Anyway thanks for sharing. This is good stuff. On the Jewish corruption of the Torah which the video mentioned, I found the following link where orthodox Jewish scholars themselves acknowledge that the Torah available nowadays is corrupted. You can have a look: https://www.jta.org/2014/05/13/united-s ... -there-one
The OP focus is on the Quran where Allah contradict itself if it claimed to be the perfect version,
or
Muhammad had a problem with his memory and presented contradictions thus the corruption of the Quran,
or
those who compiled the Quran >50 later after Muhammad's death, messed up and corrupted the Quran.

Meanwhile the religiously matured Jews and Christians do not claim their holy texts, the Torah and Gospels represent the perfect words of God. They acknowledge there could be errors via a series of translations in different languages and translators to the present copies.

There maybe hardcore Jews and Christians who insist the Torah and Gospels are word for word from God.
However what the religious matured Jews and Christians relied upon are the core doctrines, principles and contexts, not word for word.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:37 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:41 am
...the corrupted Quran is loaded with an ethos of very benign evil...
"Benign evil"? There's no such thing. Evil is always bad, not benign.

And to be frank, it's not so vague as an "ethos." The Koran is quite explicit, you'll find.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:04 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:41 am
...the corrupted Quran is loaded with an ethos of very benign evil...
"Benign evil"? There's no such thing. Evil is always bad, not benign.

And to be frank, it's not so vague as an "ethos." The Koran is quite explicit, you'll find.
Oops. Should be malignant evil.

Belinda
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Belinda » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:21 am

Islam nor Judaism does not hold Jesus of Nazareth to be the unique and literal son of God. Only Trinitarians do so believe.

There is a body of opinion that the Jewish way of expression is to say "son of" with the intention of " devoted to". Like Jesus is said to be "son of man".

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:01 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:04 am

Oops. Should be malignant evil.
Yeah, makes sense.

Averroes
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Re: The Bible is corrupted.

Post by Averroes » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:38 pm

HexHammer wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:11 pm
Averroes wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:59 pm
This YouTube video is quite informative and interesting. It covered the notorious John 5:7 NT corruption quite concisely and accurately. I see in the video description that it is part 1 of 2, but I could not find part 2 on YT. Do you have the link or is it coming in a future video? Anyway thanks for sharing. This is good stuff. On the Jewish corruption of the Torah which the video mentioned, I found the following link where orthodox Jewish scholars themselves acknowledge that the Torah available nowadays is corrupted. You can have a look: https://www.jta.org/2014/05/13/united-s ... -there-one
Dunno, been a while since I saw the vid, so I dunno if there's nothers, if it has been deleted or what happened.
It's possible that it could have been deleted. In any case, I shall be checking for updates on that channel in case of a future upload and may be post it here if the opportunity presents itself. Many people don't want to address this kind of information,  even though it is based on scriptural evidence. And, moreover, it is the subject of this thread! In fact this subject is one of the rare instances where there is consensus among the various biblical scholars whether Jewish or Christian, in that they agree that the Bible available nowadays is a very badly corrupted document. Many books have been written on the subject, and more so lately with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls which is mentioned in the video. So far though, interesting points were addressed in that video. After going through the history of the evolution of the Bible through the last 2 millennia, Trey the Explainer has so far addressed 5 instances among the many instances of biblical corruption. Among them:

The Gospel titles and their authors.

Under this heading, the narrator said that as confirmed by the early manuscripts of the four canonical Gospels themselves, these Gospels were originally untitled and they were written anonymously, ie they all are of unknown authors to this day. He also provides the textual evidence that these Gospels were not and could not have been written by the disciples Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. And it was much later that such names were given to these books.


The Johannine commas.

This heading concerns NT verse John 5:7 which is a notorious verse in the NT which has been known to have been corrupted. As a matter of fact many biblical commentators have addressed this corruption as evidenced by such site as Biblehub.  Excerpt from Biblehub:
  • The portion of the passage, in 1 John 5:7-8, whose genuineness is disputed, is included in brackets in the following quotation, as it stands in the common editions of the New Testament: "For there are three that bear record (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth,) the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one." If the disputed passage, therefore, be omitted as spurious, the whole passage will read, "For there are three that bear record, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one." The reasons which seem to me to prove that the passage included in brackets is spurious, and should not be regarded as a part of the inspired writings, are briefly the following:

    I. It is missing in all the earlier Greek manuscripts, for it is found in no Greek manuscript written before the 16th century. Indeed, it is found in only two Greek manuscripts of any age - one the Codex Montfortianus, or Britannicus, written in the beginning of the sixteenth century, and the other the Codex Ravianus, which is a mere transcript of the text, taken partly from the third edition of Stephen's New Testament, and partly from the Complutensian Polyglott. But it is incredible that a genuine passage of the New Testament should be missing in all the early Greek manuscripts.

    II. It is missing in the earliest versions, and, indeed, in a large part of the versions of the New Testament which have been made in all former times. It is wanting in both the Syriac versions - one of which was made probably in the first century; in the Coptic, Armenian, Slavonic, Ethiopic, and Arabic.

    III. It is never quoted by the Greek fathers in their controversies on the doctrine of the Trinity - a passage which would be so much in point, and which could not have failed to be quoted if it were genuine; and it is not referred to by the Latin fathers until the time of Vigilius, at the end of the 5th century. If the passage were believed to be genuine - nay, if it were known at all to be in existence, and to have any probability in its favor - it is incredible that in all the controversies which occurred in regard to the divine nature, and in all the efforts to define the doctrine of the Trinity, this passage should never have been referred to. But it never was; for it must be plain to anyone who examines the subject with an unbiassed mind, that the passages which are relied on to prove that it was quoted by Athanasius, Cyprian, Augustin, etc., (Wetstein, II., p. 725) are not taken from this place, and are not such as they would have made if they had been acquainted with this passage, and had designed to quote it.

    IV. The argument against the passage from the external proof is confirmed by internal evidence, which makes it morally certain that it cannot be genuine.(...)

    VI. The passage is now omitted in the best editions of the Greek Testament, and regarded as spurious by the ablest critics. See Griesbach and Hahn. On the whole, therefore, the evidence seems to me to be clear that this passage is not a genuine portion of the inspired writings, and should not be appealed to in proof of the doctrine of the Trinity. One or two remarks may be made, in addition, in regard to its use.
Site: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_john/5-7.htm


Interesting it is to observe that Isaac Newton who ended up rejecting the Trinity before endorsing unitarianism, also wrote on the corruption of John 5:7(among others) in a letter to his friend John Lock, which letter is available for everyone to read online. Fortunately for us, Wikipedia has got the gist of this letter in one of its entries:
  • Using the writings of the early Church Fathers, the Greek and Latin manuscripts and the testimony of the first versions of the Bible, Newton claims to have demonstrated that the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one", that support the Trinity doctrine, did not appear in the original Greek Scriptures. He then attempts to demonstrate that the purportedly spurious reading crept into the Latin versions, first as a marginal note, and later into the text itself. He noted that "the Æthiopic, Syriac, Arabic, Armenian, and Slavonic versions, still in use in the several Eastern nations, Ethiopia, Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, Armenia, Muscovy, and some others, are strangers to this reading".[4] He argued[5] that it was first taken into a Greek text in 1515 by Cardinal Ximenes. Finally, Newton considered the sense and context of the verse, concluding that removing the interpolation makes "the sense plain and natural, and the argument full and strong; but if you insert the testimony of 'the Three in Heaven' you interrupt and spoil it."[6] Today most versions of the Bible are from the Critical Text and omit this verse, or retain it as only a marginal reading.
Site: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Hist ... _Scripture

-----------
HexHammer wrote: Thanks for the link you have provided.
The pleasure was mine. Anyway this was the least I could do to return the favour after the informative video that you shared with us. There are many books that I read on the corruption of the Bible. Notably, a  couple of years ago, I got the opportunity of reading an interesting book written by many biblical scholars (about 20 scholars) on the subject. Some of these scholars were Christian ministers themselves. These scholars were drawing to a large extent from the evidence of the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) to show how the Bible has been corrupted over the centuries.
The book is on scribd in case you might want to have a look. That book is a collection of academic papers scrutinizing the evidence provided by the DSS. This is a technical book though, some knowledge of Hebrew is required to read some(but not all) of the papers.

Changes in Scripture, Rewriting and Interpreting Authoritative Traditions in the Second Temple Period , edited by Hanne von Weissenberg, Juha Pakkala and Marko Marttila:
https://www.scribd.com/document/4586307 ... -Scripture

You quoted Jeremiah 8:8 previously and coincidentally this is the subject of one of the papers in the book! I provide an excerpt below for your convenience.

John J. Collins wrote:
  • “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us,’
    when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie” (Jer 8:8)

    We do not know precisely what Jeremiah had in mind in his scathing denunciation of scribal activity on the Torah. Many scholars think that the prophet was opposed to any written Torah. He was certainly concerned that the authority of the prophet to speak for God was being usurped by the scribes, as indeed it was. But it is also established beyond doubt that scribes frequently changed the supposedly revealed texts that they transmitted. Ironically, the book of Jeremiah is itself a prime example of scribal composition, where the original oracles of the prophet are now overshadowed by the accretions, often ideological, of scribal transmission.

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HexHammer
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Re: The Bible is corrupted.

Post by HexHammer » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:54 pm

HexHammer wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:11 pm
I see in the video description that it is part 1 of 2, but I could not find part 2 on YT. Do you have the link or is it coming in a future video?
Part 2 will come in a future video.

Age
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Age » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:31 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:41 am
...the corrupted Quran is loaded with an ethos of very benign evil...
"Benign evil"? There's no such thing. Evil is always bad, not benign.

And to be frank, it's not so vague as an "ethos." The Koran is quite explicit, you'll find.
The quran is, in fact, quite explicit in love and peace, you will actually find. That is; when it is read without the incessant misinterpretations continually being laid onto and into it.

But each to their own. Every one has their own particular way of looking at, and of seeing, things.

Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am

Age wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:31 am
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:41 am
...the corrupted Quran is loaded with an ethos of very benign evil...
"Benign evil"? There's no such thing. Evil is always bad, not benign.

And to be frank, it's not so vague as an "ethos." The Koran is quite explicit, you'll find.
The quran is, in fact, quite explicit in love and peace, you will actually find. That is; when it is read without the incessant misinterpretations continually being laid onto and into it.

But each to their own. Every one has their own particular way of looking at, and of seeing, things.
You are so stupid!
You jumped to conclusion on what the Quran represents without reading or having any reasonable idea of what the Quran is.

The Quran contains 112 Chapters, 6236 verses, 77,449 words [with some disputed variations].

Literally and explicitly, 3400++ or 54% of the verses contained very contemptuous & evil elements against the non-Muslims [kafir, etc.]. Read the Quran fully and count these verses yourself.
There are less that 20++ verses that are 'positive' to the non-Muslims and these are abrogated by the later Medinian verses.
Whatever other verses that contain 'good' [moral] elements, they are only applicable to Muslims never to non-Muslims.
Based on this basis alone, how can you claim the Quran is, "quite explicit in love and peace."

Prove to me I am wrong on the above.

Age
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Age » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:38 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Age wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:31 am
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:37 pm

"Benign evil"? There's no such thing. Evil is always bad, not benign.

And to be frank, it's not so vague as an "ethos." The Koran is quite explicit, you'll find.
The quran is, in fact, quite explicit in love and peace, you will actually find. That is; when it is read without the incessant misinterpretations continually being laid onto and into it.

But each to their own. Every one has their own particular way of looking at, and of seeing, things.
You are so stupid!
OKAY. I am so stupid. Now that that is finally settled let us proceed and see if we can make any progress, this time?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
You jumped to conclusion on what the Quran represents without reading or having any reasonable idea of what the Quran is.
And what are you making that assumption and basing that belief on exactly?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
The Quran contains 112 Chapters, 6236 verses, 77,449 words [with some disputed variations].

Literally and explicitly, 3400++ or 54% of the verses contained very contemptuous & evil elements against the non-Muslims [kafir, etc.].
I have already informed you of how those words and verses are not evil at all. The only evil anywhere here is just in your own misinterpretations.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Read the Quran fully and count these verses yourself.
Counting the number of words or verses does not illustrate evil or good in the words and verses.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
There are less that 20++ verses that are 'positive' to the non-Muslims and these are abrogated by the later Medinian verses.
Once again I will tell you that it does not matter if there is one or every word you are talking about here. What matters is the interpretation, or in the majority of cases the misinterpretation, of what is actually meant by the words and verses used. That is all that truly matters here.

And the meaning and intent behind all of the words and verses written in the quran is about love and peace, which can be clearly seen, evidenced, and proven. But this of course is all dependent upon the reader them self.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Whatever other verses that contain 'good' [moral] elements, they are only applicable to Muslims never to non-Muslims.
You keep forgetting that the evil you "see" is just because of the mis/interpretation that you are putting on the actual words used.

Human beings can be all to easily and simply fooled to "see" things, which are not even there.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Based on this basis alone, how can you claim the Quran is, "quite explicit in love and peace."

Prove to me I am wrong on the above.
Well that is very easy. Either you:

1. Read what I already informed you before in regards to how it is from wrong interpretations you see wrong or evil intent in the quran,which is not even there.

2. Tell me exactly what is needed to prove to you that the reason you see evil in the quran is because of your own misinterpretation.

I have already informed you of how you are wrong all the other times I explained to you what 'muslims'and 'non muslims' exactly are. But as you will prove you still have not even be able to understand this.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:41 am

Age wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:38 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Age wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:31 am


The quran is, in fact, quite explicit in love and peace, you will actually find. That is; when it is read without the incessant misinterpretations continually being laid onto and into it.

But each to their own. Every one has their own particular way of looking at, and of seeing, things.
You are so stupid!
OKAY. I am so stupid. Now that that is finally settled let us proceed and see if we can make any progress, this time?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
You jumped to conclusion on what the Quran represents without reading or having any reasonable idea of what the Quran is.
And what are you making that assumption and basing that belief on exactly?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
The Quran contains 112 Chapters, 6236 verses, 77,449 words [with some disputed variations].

Literally and explicitly, 3400++ or 54% of the verses contained very contemptuous & evil elements against the non-Muslims [kafir, etc.].
I have already informed you of how those words and verses are not evil at all. The only evil anywhere here is just in your own misinterpretations.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Read the Quran fully and count these verses yourself.
Counting the number of words or verses does not illustrate evil or good in the words and verses.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
There are less that 20++ verses that are 'positive' to the non-Muslims and these are abrogated by the later Medinian verses.
Once again I will tell you that it does not matter if there is one or every word you are talking about here. What matters is the interpretation, or in the majority of cases the misinterpretation, of what is actually meant by the words and verses used. That is all that truly matters here.

And the meaning and intent behind all of the words and verses written in the quran is about love and peace, which can be clearly seen, evidenced, and proven. But this of course is all dependent upon the reader them self.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Whatever other verses that contain 'good' [moral] elements, they are only applicable to Muslims never to non-Muslims.
You keep forgetting that the evil you "see" is just because of the mis/interpretation that you are putting on the actual words used.

Human beings can be all to easily and simply fooled to "see" things, which are not even there.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Based on this basis alone, how can you claim the Quran is, "quite explicit in love and peace."

Prove to me I am wrong on the above.
Well that is very easy. Either you:

1. Read what I already informed you before in regards to how it is from wrong interpretations you see wrong or evil intent in the quran,which is not even there.

2. Tell me exactly what is needed to prove to you that the reason you see evil in the quran is because of your own misinterpretation.

I have already informed you of how you are wrong all the other times I explained to you what 'muslims'and 'non muslims' exactly are. But as you will prove you still have not even be able to understand this.
2. Tell me exactly what is needed to prove to you that the reason you see evil in the quran is because of your own misinterpretation.
You have never claimed to have read the Quran fully and thoroughly nor have you done any reasonable research of the Quran's 6236 verses.

I ask again;
Confirm how many times have you read the whole of the Quran.
What is your approach in reading the Quran thoroughly?
What sort of research have you done on the Quran's 6236 verses?

Don't beat around the bush, just give me the simple and direct answers.

Age
Posts: 4464
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Age » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:38 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:41 am
Age wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:38 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am

You are so stupid!
OKAY. I am so stupid. Now that that is finally settled let us proceed and see if we can make any progress, this time?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
You jumped to conclusion on what the Quran represents without reading or having any reasonable idea of what the Quran is.
And what are you making that assumption and basing that belief on exactly?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
The Quran contains 112 Chapters, 6236 verses, 77,449 words [with some disputed variations].

Literally and explicitly, 3400++ or 54% of the verses contained very contemptuous & evil elements against the non-Muslims [kafir, etc.].
I have already informed you of how those words and verses are not evil at all. The only evil anywhere here is just in your own misinterpretations.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Read the Quran fully and count these verses yourself.
Counting the number of words or verses does not illustrate evil or good in the words and verses.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
There are less that 20++ verses that are 'positive' to the non-Muslims and these are abrogated by the later Medinian verses.
Once again I will tell you that it does not matter if there is one or every word you are talking about here. What matters is the interpretation, or in the majority of cases the misinterpretation, of what is actually meant by the words and verses used. That is all that truly matters here.

And the meaning and intent behind all of the words and verses written in the quran is about love and peace, which can be clearly seen, evidenced, and proven. But this of course is all dependent upon the reader them self.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Whatever other verses that contain 'good' [moral] elements, they are only applicable to Muslims never to non-Muslims.
You keep forgetting that the evil you "see" is just because of the mis/interpretation that you are putting on the actual words used.

Human beings can be all to easily and simply fooled to "see" things, which are not even there.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 am
Based on this basis alone, how can you claim the Quran is, "quite explicit in love and peace."

Prove to me I am wrong on the above.
Well that is very easy. Either you:

1. Read what I already informed you before in regards to how it is from wrong interpretations you see wrong or evil intent in the quran,which is not even there.

2. Tell me exactly what is needed to prove to you that the reason you see evil in the quran is because of your own misinterpretation.

I have already informed you of how you are wrong all the other times I explained to you what 'muslims'and 'non muslims' exactly are. But as you will prove you still have not even be able to understand this.
2. Tell me exactly what is needed to prove to you that the reason you see evil in the quran is because of your own misinterpretation.
You have never claimed to have read the Quran fully and thoroughly nor have you done any reasonable research of the Quran's 6236 verses.
Yes you are correct I have never claimed anything as stupid as you say here.

Reading something "fully and thoroughly" never means that one is doing any reasonable research at all. As I keep informing you absolutely every thing is relative to the observer. So, this means that no matter how many times you read some thing "fully and thoroughly" you will never obtain the true meaning and intention behind the writings from the author's perspective, if you are holding a preconception, exactly like you are here.

What you call a "reasonable research" is the most twisted and distorted thinking possible.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:41 am
I ask again;
Confirm how many times have you read the whole of the Quran.
I will clarify again, NONE.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:41 am
What is your approach in reading the Quran thoroughly?
The approach I use is with the eyes.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:41 am
What sort of research have you done on the Quran's 6236 verses?
Looking OPENLY.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:41 am
Don't beat around the bush, just give me the simple and direct answers.
I have, ONCE AGAIN.

Now, you will continue to do what you have continually done since your arrival in this forum. That is; express your own beliefs as though they are absolutely true, right, and correct, and you will do this from your absolutely closed and blind perspective of things.

I have already informed you of what a 'muslim' is and what a 'non-muslim' is, from my perspective, and how the quran is related to love and peace. But, because of your very closed biased, separatist, and evil views, and intentions, you will continue to only see and believe what you do now.

What the author's True intention and meaning behind any writing only the author KNOWS. If the author/speaker is not able to clearly clarify what they, them self, meant by any word they have used, then any so called "reasonable research" is just an 'interpretation' only, which obviously could be absolutely contrary to the author's actual intent, meaning, and ideology.

So, the only thing 'you', 'i', and any one else can do is just express our own perceived interpretation, based on the actual Truth that what we are expressing could be completely and utterly wrong or right or absolutely anywhere in between.

Once you understand this Truth, then you hopefully will start seeing things far clearer than you are now.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 3939
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Fri May 01, 2020 6:17 am

Age wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:38 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:41 am
You have never claimed to have read the Quran fully and thoroughly nor have you done any reasonable research of the Quran's 6236 verses.
Reading something "fully and thoroughly" never means that one is doing any reasonable research at all. As I keep informing you absolutely every thing is relative to the observer. So, this means that no matter how many times you read some thing "fully and thoroughly" you will never obtain the true meaning and intention behind the writings from the author's perspective, if you are holding a preconception, exactly like you are here.

What you call a "reasonable research" is the most twisted and distorted thinking possible.
You are so stupid.

I asked the following basic questions;
  • 1. Confirm how many times have you read the whole of the Quran.
    2. What is your approach in reading the Quran thoroughly?
    3. What sort of research have you done on the Quran's 6236 verses?
and you give me all sort of stupid replies in your response.

I'll ask again;
1. Confirm how many times have you read the whole of the Quran.
2. What is your approach in reading the Quran thoroughly?
3. What sort of research have you done on the Quran's 6236 verses?

Just me give direct answers instead of beating round the bush with stupid answers.
It is so basic,
how can you judge a book without reading it fully and thoroughly?

nothing
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:32 pm

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by nothing » Fri May 01, 2020 8:01 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:44 am
Any person will see things in what they read and look at, which fit in with their already gained and being held onto assumptions and beliefs.

These people in fact cannot not help but corrupt and distort absolutely every thing they read and are looking at. Evidence and proof of this can be seen throughout this forum. In fact evidence and proof of this distorting and corrupting of things can be seen just in your very few words in your opening post here in this thread
"Believing" that the Qur'an is the perfect, inimitable, unaltered, inerrant and most "supreme" document on the face of the planet is where "distortion" begins. The Qur'an is evolved from Syriac (not Arabic) Christian (not Islamic) strophic hymns (not "revelations"), contains numerous errors and was not codified/finalized (ie. was man-made and -handled from the start) until the mid-8th century. Additionally: all mosques constructed up until 730CE have qiblas facing Petra in South Jordan, and not Mecca in Saudi Arabia. That means it was changed after the death of the worshiped idol of Islam: Muhammad.
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:44 am
Your already gained and strongly held onto beliefs and assumptions, which are corrupting and distorting you to be a very racist, very judgemental, and very closed and distorted person can be clearly seen in your writings.
The accuser is the accused.

Age is again projecting the substance of his own nature onto others,
the same pathology as the Muhammadans
who similarly abuse others by labeling/slandering them esp.
by projecting the substance of their own nature.

Age is a perfect example of a fascist pig who does nothing but abuse, abuse and abuse people
who speak the truth about Islam: the idolatrous death cult rooted in

"US vs. THEM"
viz.
"BELIEVER vs. UNBELIEVER"

and all the "believers" can do is point their fingers at others
and/or do what Age does: label, slander and abuse.

Oh, by the way:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... obama.html

Clock is ticking.

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