Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

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Veritas Aequitas
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Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am

Muslims generally claimed the Bible [Gospels] had been corrupted by Christians.
For example, there is no Trinity by Allah, Jesus is not the Son of God but only a prophet, Jesus was not crucified, etc.
Muslims will quote verses from the Quran, 3:78, etc., to support their claim.
Is this true?

Note this defense and great explanation:
The Bible is not corrupted by David Wood and Sam Shamoun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2-sSeGisSY

Age
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Age » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:44 am

Any person will see things in what they read and look at, which fit in with their already gained and being held onto assumptions and beliefs.

These people in fact cannot not help but corrupt and distort absolutely every thing they read and are looking at. Evidence and proof of this can be seen throughout this forum. In fact evidence and proof of this distorting and corrupting of things can be seen just in your very few words in your opening post here in this thread

Your already gained and strongly held onto beliefs and assumptions, which are corrupting and distorting you to be a very racist, very judgemental, and very closed and distorted person can be clearly seen in your writings.

Dontaskme
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:15 pm

It depends on who is reading the story that no one ever wrote as to what this unwritten story is revealing to you.
There is here a wrong and a right I ..the key to knowledge is to be wise enough to discern between the two eyes of manifestation, and to know the difference. A clue: one eye is the listener, the silent reader, the other doesn't exist...for the seer and the seen are the same one.



Matthew 13:9-16
9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.” 10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” 11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ 16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

.

Dontaskme
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:44 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am
Muslims generally claimed the Bible [Gospels] had been corrupted by Christians.
For example, there is no Trinity by Allah, Jesus is not the Son of God but only a prophet, Jesus was not crucified, etc.
Muslims will quote verses from the Quran, 3:78, etc., to support their claim.
Is this true?

Characters known as Muslims and Christians are just like Chapters in a Book. The Book in question here is inseparable from the Chapters. There is no Book without any Chapters and vice versa. Reader and Author are one in the moment.

No claim, no blame, no fame. ANON Book is all there is.



.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:52 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am
Muslims generally claimed the Bible [Gospels] had been corrupted by Christians.
...and Jews. Don't forget them. They are said to have also corrupted the truth, by saying things like that Isaac was the son of blessing, as Torah says, instead of Ishmael, as the Koran says. And they say this in spite of the fact that the Koran (by their own confession) was only handed down to Mohammed in 609, and then was written later. So for at least 600 years, there should be manuscripts that show the particular corruptions of which Muslims speak, gradually appearing throughout the various books of the Torah and New Testament. And it should be longer, for the Jewish manuscripts. And there should be lots and lots of them, because the Jews were famous for writing down Torah and scribing diligently, even if they suppose the Christians were less fastidious...

They should have no trouble at all proving that case from the archaeological evidence. So where is this manuscript tradition they ought to expect?

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HexHammer
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by HexHammer » Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:28 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am
Yadda yadda, bla bla ..bla
Jeremiah 8 8 How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us?’ But in fact, the lying pen of the scribes has produced a deception.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKp4yWGTfXo

Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:13 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:52 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am
Muslims generally claimed the Bible [Gospels] had been corrupted by Christians.
...and Jews. Don't forget them. They are said to have also corrupted the truth, by saying things like that Isaac was the son of blessing, as Torah says, instead of Ishmael, as the Koran says. And they say this in spite of the fact that the Koran (by their own confession) was only handed down to Mohammed in 609, and then was written later. So for at least 600 years, there should be manuscripts that show the particular corruptions of which Muslims speak, gradually appearing throughout the various books of the Torah and New Testament. And it should be longer, for the Jewish manuscripts. And there should be lots and lots of them, because the Jews were famous for writing down Torah and scribing diligently, even if they suppose the Christians were less fastidious...

They should have no trouble at all proving that case from the archaeological evidence. So where is this manuscript tradition they ought to expect?
I agree with the above.

The Muslims started with the wrong footing by claiming their core holy text [Quran] is the verbatim perfect book directly from Allah. There are already evidences that is not the case as claimed.

The challenge by David Wood [very confidently] is;
.. show one verse where Allah in the Quran stated unequivocally, the gospels are corrupted. If there is, he will convert to be a Muslim.
So far no Muslim had been able to produce one single verse.
Whatever verses they had produced are merely from their personal inferences and in substance do not refer to the gospels directly thus not unequivocal.

Rather, Allah in various verses the Quran affirmed the Gospels as the true word of God.

Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:15 am

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:44 am
Any person will see things in what they read and look at, which fit in with their already gained and being held onto assumptions and beliefs.

These people in fact cannot not help but corrupt and distort absolutely every thing they read and are looking at. Evidence and proof of this can be seen throughout this forum. In fact evidence and proof of this distorting and corrupting of things can be seen just in your very few words in your opening post here in this thread

Your already gained and strongly held onto beliefs and assumptions, which are corrupting and distorting you to be a very racist, very judgemental, and very closed and distorted person can be clearly seen in your writings.
WTF.. you have not even read the Quran fully yet blindly make the above judgments.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 3939
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:15 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:44 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am
Muslims generally claimed the Bible [Gospels] had been corrupted by Christians.
For example, there is no Trinity by Allah, Jesus is not the Son of God but only a prophet, Jesus was not crucified, etc.
Muslims will quote verses from the Quran, 3:78, etc., to support their claim.
Is this true?

Characters known as Muslims and Christians are just like Chapters in a Book. The Book in question here is inseparable from the Chapters. There is no Book without any Chapters and vice versa. Reader and Author are one in the moment.

No claim, no blame, no fame. ANON Book is all there is.
Off topic.

Age
Posts: 4464
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Age » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:48 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:15 am
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:44 am
Any person will see things in what they read and look at, which fit in with their already gained and being held onto assumptions and beliefs.

These people in fact cannot not help but corrupt and distort absolutely every thing they read and are looking at. Evidence and proof of this can be seen throughout this forum. In fact evidence and proof of this distorting and corrupting of things can be seen just in your very few words in your opening post here in this thread

Your already gained and strongly held onto beliefs and assumptions, which are corrupting and distorting you to be a very racist, very judgemental, and very closed and distorted person can be clearly seen in your writings.
WTF.. you have not even read the Quran fully yet blindly make the above judgments.
But I do not need to read a book to see and make comments on your very racist, very judgemental, and very closed mentality.

Age
Posts: 4464
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Age » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:53 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:13 am
Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:52 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am
Muslims generally claimed the Bible [Gospels] had been corrupted by Christians.
...and Jews. Don't forget them. They are said to have also corrupted the truth, by saying things like that Isaac was the son of blessing, as Torah says, instead of Ishmael, as the Koran says. And they say this in spite of the fact that the Koran (by their own confession) was only handed down to Mohammed in 609, and then was written later. So for at least 600 years, there should be manuscripts that show the particular corruptions of which Muslims speak, gradually appearing throughout the various books of the Torah and New Testament. And it should be longer, for the Jewish manuscripts. And there should be lots and lots of them, because the Jews were famous for writing down Torah and scribing diligently, even if they suppose the Christians were less fastidious...

They should have no trouble at all proving that case from the archaeological evidence. So where is this manuscript tradition they ought to expect?
I agree with the above.

The Muslims started with the wrong footing by claiming their core holy text [Quran] is the verbatim perfect book directly from Allah. There are already evidences that is not the case as claimed.

The challenge by David Wood [very confidently] is;
.. show one verse where Allah in the Quran stated unequivocally, the gospels are corrupted. If there is, he will convert to be a Muslim.
So far no Muslim had been able to produce one single verse.
Whatever verses they had produced are merely from their personal inferences and in substance do not refer to the gospels directly thus not unequivocal.

Rather, Allah in various verses the Quran affirmed the Gospels as the true word of God.
Until 'you' become open you will remain blind.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 3939
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:38 am

Here is another counter from David Wood,

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0StubraAvU
    Does Quran 2:79 Claim That the Bible Is Corrupt? Shattering an Islamic Myth
    • When we ask Muslims to show us where the Quran claims that the Christian scriptures have been corrupted, they turn to Surah 2, verse 79 of the Quran.
      But does Quran 2:79 actually refer to the corruption of the Bible, the Torah, or the Gospel?
      David Wood (Acts 17 Apologetics) examines the passage closely and finds dozens of problems with the Muslim distortion of this verse.

Averroes
Posts: 318
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The Bible is corrupted.

Post by Averroes » Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:59 pm

HexHammer wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:28 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 am
Yadda yadda, bla bla ..bla
Jeremiah 8 8 How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us?’ But in fact, the lying pen of the scribes has produced a deception.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKp4yWGTfXo
This YouTube video is quite informative and interesting. It covered the notorious John 5:7 NT corruption quite concisely and accurately. I see in the video description that it is part 1 of 2, but I could not find part 2 on YT. Do you have the link or is it coming in a future video? Anyway thanks for sharing. This is good stuff. On the Jewish corruption of the Torah which the video mentioned, I found the following link where orthodox Jewish scholars themselves acknowledge that the Torah available nowadays is corrupted. You can have a look: https://www.jta.org/2014/05/13/united-s ... -there-one

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Muslims: The Bible is Corrupted!

Post by Immanuel Can » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:50 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:13 am
They should have no trouble at all proving that case from the archaeological evidence. So where is this manuscript tradition they ought to expect?
I agree with the above.
Muslims are, in fact, very proud of the fact that Mohammed wrote no part of the Koran at all. He was, throughout his life, totally illiterate. And they claim that this proves a miracle; for how could a totally illiterate man have said so much "wisdom" if it were not miraculous? :shock:

Well, read the Koran, and you'll soon know how much "wisdom" is found therein. Heck, read even "The Book of Women" and you'll get a shock.

But Muslim historians don't deny that the Koran was assembled out of fragments of what other people said Mohammed said, and that they were collected after his death, and his "authentic" versus "inauthentic" pronouncements vetted by committee, and then the "inauthentic" fragments burned, and the rest rearranged in order of length. And, in fact, the many mistakes in the Koran -- its variances from Torah and the NT -- are what most needs explanation. Because Mohammed himself quoted Torah and the New Testament as authoritative...and if he did that, how does one explain that a fair bit of what he said, like the Ishmael-Isaac mistake, is not only not found in Torah or the NT, but is, in fact, flatly contradicted by the Torah and NT?

Essentially, then, Mohammed has undercut his own credibility: for he has insisted on the rightness of the Jewish and Christian sources, and then violated them in his errant repetition of some of what they say. He got them wrong. His memory was clearly flawed....not surprising, since he only ever heard them verbally, probably from the Nestorians, or some other sect of the period. In any case, Mohammed produced the variance between Torah and the NT, on the one hand, and the Koran on the other.

The "corrupted manuscript" theory was invented after the fact, as way of his followers insisting that it's the Koran that got it right, and the Jews and Christians are the ones who got it wrong, not the illiterate Mohammed or his later followers who edited the text.

Unfortunately for the Muslim "corrupted manuscript" explanation, there's zero archaeological or manuscript evidence for it, so it's an entirely historically gratuitous explanation.

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HexHammer
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Re: The Bible is corrupted.

Post by HexHammer » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:11 pm

Averroes wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:59 pm
This YouTube video is quite informative and interesting. It covered the notorious John 5:7 NT corruption quite concisely and accurately. I see in the video description that it is part 1 of 2, but I could not find part 2 on YT. Do you have the link or is it coming in a future video? Anyway thanks for sharing. This is good stuff. On the Jewish corruption of the Torah which the video mentioned, I found the following link where orthodox Jewish scholars themselves acknowledge that the Torah available nowadays is corrupted. You can have a look: https://www.jta.org/2014/05/13/united-s ... -there-one
Dunno, been a while since I saw the vid, so I dunno if there's nothers, if it has been deleted or what happened.

Thanks for the link you have provided.

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