God and COVID-19

[Lacewing]

…

You are so full of excuses and denials and projections. Even when people point it out to you: you deny saying it or doing it -- and then, oh look, there it is! But NO... that's not what you were feeling or what you meant! NO... that's not proof of anything! NO... the other person misunderstood, and they must provide proof! You NEVER do any of these things and you know people better than they know themselves!!! GLORY BE... YOU ARE JUST FUCKING AMAZING!!!

The only thing you are making clear is how self-protective you are, and how much you are willing to distort and claim to position yourself beyond reach.

[Age]

…

You are so full of excuses and denials and projections.

Am I?

Would you like to give any examples, then explain WHY, and then wait to look at "them" more deeply and discuss with them more succinctly?

Or, would you prefer to just say things like you have here and just believe that they hold true by themselves and that you do not need to explain any thing at all.

Are you even aware that when you just continually use the words 'excuses', 'denials', and 'projections', and do not back up and support this with absolutely any thing at all, then at times I and "others" have absolutely NO idea NOR clue what you are actually referring to, and take your words as being nothing at all but just words written without any actual meaning at all?

Even when people point it out to you: you deny saying it or doing it -- and then, oh look, there it is!

And when you use words like 'it', for example, when you say things like; "Even when people point 'it' out to you:", then people like me have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA NOR CLUE AT ALL what the 'it' is in reference to.

I will talk to you like you talk to me, and see if you can understand what I am referring to and referencing.

"You are so full of excuses and denials and projections. Even when people point it out to you: you deny saying it or doing it -- and then, oh look, there it is! "

Now tell me if you can see and understand what I am actually talking about.

Tell me what the the word 'excuses' is in relation to, tell me what the word 'denials' is in relation to, and tell me what the word 'projections' is in relation to. If you can not do that, then I also can not do it either when you talk to me like that. Do you understand this?

Also, tell me what the second sentence in is in relation to. What is the 'it' that when people point out to you: you deny saying 'it' or doing 'it', and then, oh look, there 'it' is!

If you can not tell me what the word 'it' is referencing, then I also can not tell you.

But NO... that's not what you were feeling or what you meant!

So, as I have suggested countless times already, instead of you TELLING ME what I am feeling or what I meaning, you ASK ME clarifying question about what I am feeling and/or what I am actually meaning. This way you will not be SO WRONG, SO OFTEN. Obivously.

NO... that's not proof of anything! NO... the other person misunderstood, and they must provide proof!

Well I HAVE TO provide proof, and I expect My 'self' to be provide proof, so why should "anothers" not have to provide proof for claims and accusations. After all we are in a philosophy forum. And, if people can not back up and support their claims and accusations here, in a philosophy forum, then where else would they be expected to.

You NEVER do any of these things

Talk about exaggerating.

LOL I do not 'try to' back up and support what I say and claim with evidence and/or proofs. Are you joking?

Find one time where I have been asked a clarifying question for proof and I have NOT answered that question.

I have provided evidence and/or proof each and every time I am ask or challenged. If that 'proof' is not accepted as proof or not, then that is a whole other matter. And, if what I say is not accepted as proof, but that person does not want to ask any further clarifying questions and/or does not want to further challenge me on what I provided, then that is NOT me not providing proof. That is them just not furthering the discussion. Understand?

As I say I can back up and support absolutely every thing I say and claim.

Now find just once when I have NOT answered a clarifying question.

Prove your claims here.

Do what I do, ask for clarification and/or challenge people on what they say and claim.

and you know people better than they know themselves!!! GLORY BE... YOU ARE JUST FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Ask me absolutely ANY clarifying question at all, and/or challenge me on absolutely ANY thing at all. I can and will answer and explain.

The only thing you are making clear is how self-protective you are, and how much you are willing to distort and claim to position yourself beyond reach.

LOL I continually ask to be asked clarifying question and ask to be challenged on ALL of what I say and claim. So, WHY do you think that you would see that as being so called "self-protective". I see that as being VERY OPEN to being exposed as being WRONG, and the to be ridiculed and laughed. So, those assumptions and beliefs, which are leading you to see some thing, which is obviously very DISTORTED and WRONG are not doing you any good at all here.

Again, asking to be questioned AND challenged is not exactly positioning one's self 'beyond' reach. In fact it is obviously the very opposite. I am positioning My 'self' to be 'within' reach and a direct position to be mocked and ridiculed IF I am wrong.

[Lacewing]

You NEVER do any of these things

Talk about exaggerating.

I was making fun of your tendency for denial and exaggeration, and the way you like to write NEVER in all caps.

If you cannot see what is being pointed out to you in simple terms, then that's as far as it goes... which is nowhere, except for the personal entertainment of the person who is telling you. You claim to be open and accepting of what can be shown to you, but good god, the effort it takes to present something in a way that you can or will see is much too much effort for most people (evidently... as has been expressed here on the forum). I think that's because YOU are getting in the way... but you will claim that other people aren't doing it right. So, whatever. It's not that important. That's why it's valuable to at least to have fun trying while one feels inclined to do so.

Perhaps other people will gain value from reading all that you write... but I have stopped reading for the most part. I scan quickly to see what channel you're on... and that's enough information in itself. Your usual channel seems too convoluted to me. So if you can ever function and communicate outside of that, let me know. I think we have some similar views that would be interesting to explore... but your projections about what I think and why, and your claim of knowing me better than I know myself, reveal a toxic and deluded aspect to you that I don't want to deal with.

[Age]

You NEVER do any of these things

Talk about exaggerating.

I was making fun of your tendency for denial and exaggeration, and the way you like to write NEVER in all caps.

So what are you saying?

It is true or it is not true?

If you cannot see what is being pointed out to you in simple terms, then that's as far as it goes

If you can not say what you mean, then I can not see what you allege is "simple terms".

I suggest, especially in a philosophy forum, you say what you mean, and, mean what you say.

... which is nowhere, except for the personal entertainment of the person who is telling you. You claim to be open and accepting of what can be shown to you, but good god, the effort it takes to present something in a way that you can or will see is much too much effort for most people (evidently... as has been expressed here on the forum). I think that's because YOU are getting in the way... but you will claim that other people aren't doing it right. So, whatever. It's not that important. That's why it's valuable to at least to have fun trying while one feels inclined to do so.

I noticed that you have not and possible could not in any way KNOW what I was referring to and referencing when I wrote to you in the exact same way.
If you can not answer my questions posed to you in the same words and language you use to me, then that surely is EVIDENCE and PROOF that what you call "simple terms" is OBVIOUSLY just simply understood by the writer only, but NOT by the reader.

Look, "you are just so full of excuses and denials and projections".

"If you cannot see what is being pointed out to you in simple terms, then that's as far as it goes --- which is nowhere ..."

Are you able to see what is being pointed out to you in those so called "simple terms"?

If yes, then what am I pointing out to you in simple terms?

You did not answer these extremely simple clarifying questions last time, let us see if you will be OPEN and Honest this time and answer them.

Perhaps other people will gain value from reading all that you write... but I have stopped reading for the most part.

This is one reason WHY you are misinterpreting and misunderstanding me, as well as taking what I am actually saying out of context. If you miss parts of what I am saying, then you will NEVER fully understand me.

I scan quickly to see what channel you're on... and that's enough information in itself.

Well this explains a LOT about the way you actually write and respond.

Your usual channel seems too convoluted to me.

If you do not want to take the time nor the effort to Truly and FULLY understand, then that is perfectly fine and understandable.

Most adult human beings in this day and age when this is being written have far more important things to do in Life than to even 'try to' understand each other. To them they 'need' to make a living, and 'try' and gain as much money as they can obtain for themselves, and a very few select others. To them, they have to make a living in order to make a better life for them and their select very few chosen ones.

If people are completely not interested in learning and understanding how to make life, itself, better for EVERY one, including them self, then so be it. There is certainly no obligation on yours nor any other human being to at least even 'try to' understand "another".

So if you can ever function and communicate outside of that, let me know. I think we have some similar views that would be interesting to explore... but your projections about what I think and why, and your claim of knowing me better than I know myself, reveal a toxic and deluded aspect to you that I don't want to deal with.

LOL Again, another one who only likes looking at and 'exploring' with "another" ONLY 'that', which is in agreement. But, AGAIN, like just about EVERY "other" adult human being will absolutely NOT want to look at them 'self' and 'explore' that in any way, shape, nor form. Unless of course it is about ALL of the good and the right that they do do, then they certainly want to look at that and share that will "others". In fact it is the exact opposite as they want as many people as possible to KNOW how good and right they are.

Most people NEVER Truly want to look at them 'self' in regards to their WRONG doing. As the saying goes, 'The Truth hurts', and this is WHY they do not want to deal with it. Most human beings do not like getting so called "hurt".

If you ever do decide to explore the saying; ' 'I' KNOW 'you' better than 'you' know 'your' 'self' ', then let me know. I am SURE you will find that what it actually means has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with what you think it means now, when this is written.

By the way we have far more similar views, which can and will only come to light and be REVEALED if and when you decide to ever become Truly OPEN and Honest, not just with me but with 'your' Self.

See, 'I' just do not know the thoughts within that body and WHY they are there, but I also KNOW thee actual underlying views deeper-down within 'you', which are still unconsciously KNOWN to 'you' yet.

I Truly do suggest that instead of holding onto all of these pre-conceptions, assumptions, and beliefs of yours that you think that I am speaking in a certain way and saying and meaning things in a certain way, which I am NOT, then if you are Truly interested in learning and understanding, then you just let them go and just become Truly OPEN and Honest, which 'you' KNOW deep-down is the Best, Right and Proper thing to do anyway?

[dxoutkast]

Remember, whose hands wrote the quran, and through whose interpretation it was written.

I think it is important that I mention that the Holy Quran is an oral tradition. What this means is that the Holy Quran is a revelation from Allah, the Almighty given orally (i.e through speech) to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) through Angel Gabriel (pbuh).

EXACTLY THE SAME as with EVERY other religion.

But, remember, whose "ears", brains, and hands ALL the writings, books, and teachings came from and through. In case you keep forgetting it was human beings' "ears", brains, and hands.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then memorized it and taught it to his companions who in turn memorized it and passed it down until it reached us today.

In more or less the EXACT SAME WAY the bible and other writings, books, and teachings are passed on down, and through.

You can 'try to' "justify" that the words in the quran are the EXACT SAME WORDS given by Allah, in the exact same way so called "christians" will 'try to' "justify" that the words in the bible are the EXACT SAME WORDS given by God, but honestly, if all of you are true to yourselves, then you would admit that the words in those, and ALL, books are just a translation by human beings. And, what is very obvious is human beings are not the best at sharing the absolute true, right, and correct knowledge in the EXACT SAME WAY as it was received. Any game of 'chinese whispers' or 'telephone' will evidence, show, and prove this FACT.

So, it is about time human beings STOP with this rubbish that the words in these books is the absolute word of Allah/God. Obviously they are NOT.

And just as obvious is Allah/God can reveal thee Truth orally to any and ALL human beings. The reason WHY none of 'you' can actually hear and SEE thee actual Truth, is because you do NOT 'listen' to It. You all much prefer to 'listen' to what you already BELIEVE is true.

And today there are millions of Muslims as from the age of 3 years old upwards who have memorized the whole Holy Quran by heart.

So what?

Are you suggesting that because a child can memorize a book, therefore the book is the absolute word of some 'thing'?

If a child can memorize a book, then that means a child can memorize a book, and not much else, other than just how smart young children are and thus just how clever the human brain really IS.

The reason why so many Muslims are able to memorize the whole Holy Quran by heart is because Allah, the Most Merciful has made the Holy Quran easy for remembering. Indeed, Allah, the All-Wise says in the Holy Quran, interpretation of meaning:

• And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 54:40]

So even if all the written words of the Holy Quran were to disappear on earth, it will still be preserved in the hearts of millions of Muslims by the permission of Allah.

Well talk about misinterpreting things.

Now, I think this is a very interesting fact in relation to our present discussion, as we have been talking about the True Self which is the natural disposition to follow Islam which God, the Almighty has implanted in us.

That is NOT what I have been saying NOR meaning at all. That is just YOUR 'interpretation' of things. You misinterpret what I say, and 'try' and match what I say with your already held beliefs and assumptions, because your already held beliefs and assumptions do not allow you to see the actual Truth of things. Your already held beliefs and assumptions allow you to only see what confirms your already held biases, which is clearly obvious here.

Humans are born with a natural disposition to be peaceful. But as they become human beings, following other human beings, then learn to be greedy, selfish, and obviously non-peaceful, just like EVERY adult human being IS. But these 'beings' are NOT the real One they can Be. The real One, within EVERY human 'being' is the Almighty Being God/Allah It Self, which is the One True Self of EVERY one.

As we have been saying, God, the Almighty has implanted in us the knowledge of His existence as our Creator and Lord, and also the knowledge of how to distinguish right and wrong.

I have said this Knowledge is within 'us'. But I would also like to make it clear that you, nor no other adult human being, came to be an adult human being knowing how to actually distinguish between right and wrong, and this is WHY you still do wrong things today, when this is written, and are not even yet aware of your wrongdoing. In fact, some of the doing you do, which you say is right and good, is in fact the very opposite as it is wrong and bad.

This innate knowledge was already in ourselves when we were born. As the Holy Quran is a reminder to our natural disposition to follow Islam (i.e. our True Self) then it stands to reason that the best place for it to be kept is inside ourselves. So that is why all Muslims are encouraged to memorize the Holy Quran so as to refresh our natural disposition or True Self (fitrah in Arabic) of following Islam. The Holy Quran written down on paper is good, but this is not the best place where it can be! The best place for the Holy Quran is in our hearts and mind.

The only purpose of the 'heart' is to pump blood. The Knowledge of what is right and good is, however, at the center of us ALL. In the One and only Mind, which we ALL share and have access to, which is just God/Allah in the Spiritual sense anyway.

Do you really need to be reminded to follow peace? How much have you people strayed away from your natural disposition if you need to open up a book to be reminded that you want to be happy and living in peace and harmony?

Has the 'love of money' really distracted you all so much?

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You, for example, say everything Allah/God commands us to do is right. But, how do we KNOW 100% without any doubt at all what God/Allah's so called "commands" us to do?

This is a very good question, thank you for asking that.

In the Holy Quran, Allah, the Almighty has set forth His commands, and everything Allah commands us to do is right. So you are asking, how do I know with 100% certainty, without any doubt whatsoever that it is from Allah?
Answer:
In the Holy Quran itself, Allah, the Almighty says that it is from Him:

Well you have certainly been misguided COMPLETELY.

Are you aware that so called "christians" say the EXACT SAME THING in relation to "their" book?

Are you aware that that "learning to memorizing as a child what the "book" says" has distorted you to such an extent that you actually now believe that what you said here is absolutely and irrefutably TRUE and that there is nothing else in the Universe that could show you otherwise?

Are you AWARE that the only way you Truly KNOW some thing is from within YOU, and not from some words written down on a piece of paper from some human being?

• The revelation of the Book is from Allah the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 45:2]

• The Most Gracious!
  He taught the Quran.
  He created man.
  He taught him speech. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 55:1-4]

Please from now on, NEVER talk and speak like this again. You "muslims" and "christians" become utterly BORING.

If you cannot answers very simple clarifying questions without mentioning the bible/quran, Allah, and God, as though you could even back up and support what you are saying, then please do not say anything at all.

• A revelation from the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
  A Book whose Verses have been detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know,
  A giver of glad tidings and a warner; but most of them turn away, so they do not hear. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 41:2-4]

• Thus Allah, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise, reveals to you [O Muhammad] and to those before you. [Quran, interpretation of meaning 42: 3]

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I was just using the same definition. I just also added the so called "standard" God/Allah meaning as well.

Are you not aware that some people "idolize" or worship some people as a Allah/God?

Indeed, I am also aware of the metaphorical meaning of the noun “idol” and thus of the verb “to idolize.” But I meant the literal sense of the word “idol” in the previous post on which you were commenting, when I said the following:

I would not go as far as saying that I hated every part of Christianity but I did express great hatred for the worshiping of idols when I was about 4-6 years old.

Yet here you are now, older, and worshiping idols incessantly.

It was the literal meaning of an idol that I had in mind when I wrote that statement, which meaning is expressed in a standard English dictionary previously quoted as well. There is a story behind that. When I was about 4-6 years old, I used to mock at some statues/idols which some people would worship. I used to go up to these statues and tell them with a menacing tone, “if you are god, then why do you remain here all day? Don’t you have better things to do?” I would then gather some saliva in my mouth and intend to spit in their direction. Once my mom overheard my little monologue and lightly scolded me. After that I would then wait when she was not watching to continue mocking these statues/idols. The good old times!

And so you should mock and spit on "idols". The quran, the bible, the mosque, and the church just being more, non moving idol, "idols", which deserve to be mocked and spat on. They are absolutely NOTHING, which should be idolized at all.

Spirit, Allah, God, and Enlightenment is WITHIN. So, there is absolutely NO need for any of this "stuff" that is idolized.
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Which all equates to thy True Self. Or, in physical terms, God/Allah refers to the One physical Universe, Itself, and in the spiritual sense, to thee One Mind, Itself.

So, if I understand you correctly, you conceive of God as the universe itself. Moreover, you also believe that God is inside of you as you said the following as well:

In other words, what God so called "implanted" in us is actually just God, Itself.

Firstly, I do NOT believe any thing.

Secondly, If God/Allah is the Creator of EVERY physical thing, then the ONLY thing that can, and does in fact, do this is thee Universe Itself. So, what the Creator IS, in the physical sense, is just thee One and only Universe, Itself.

How human beings have evolved to have the ability of being able to learn, understand, and reason ANY and EVERY thing, is from a Truly OPEN Mind. This is where ALL of our creativity comes from, which is what has allowed us to be able to be the Creator of ALL the things that we have created, and the Creator of our own destiny. The Truly OPEN Mind has given us our Free Will to do and create whatever we want and like. If God/Allah is the Creator of EVERY thing, then in the Spiritual sense, God is just thee One and only Mind, Itself.

I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me.

I do NOT have any beliefs at all, whatsoever.

However, even though I respect the right for you to hold whatever belief that you have, for me I will never be able to hold those beliefs.

I do NOT want you to have nor hold ANY beliefs at all. I would just like you to be able to back up and support absolutely EVERY claim you make. Telling me your beliefs does NOT back up and support your claims, and, telling me that the words written down by human beings, which have been translated countless times also does not back up and support your claims. I suggest if you want to make a claim, then you have at least some thing to back up and support your claims BEFORE you make the actual claim.

SEE, absolutely every word I have written, I can back up and support them with actually evidence that can prove them True. Whereas, see what you have written, how much do you reckon you can prove True with evidence?

Whatever answer you provide I can ask you clarifying questions until you can prove what you say is True.

The reason being that it does not make sense to me.

Of course NOT. You have to show some interest, through curiosity, to understand something, which on first glance does not make sense.

For example, a human heart weighs about a half pound, and as my heart is in me, so my overall body weight must be at least a half pound. Now, you believe the universe is God and God is inside us.

Did you NOT read what I wrote? I said in the physical sense God is the Universe, Itself, AND, in the spiritual sense God is the Mind, Itself. How much does the Mind weigh? Has anyone actually seen thee Mind? Where is thee Mind? Is it within you, or outside of you? In fact do you even know what the 'you' is yet?

If you want to understand what I am saying, so that it makes sense to you, then there is a whole lot more other knowledge that needs to be understood and grasp first.

We also know that the universe is tremendously heavy according to science.

The Universe, Itself, cannot weigh anything, because there is NOTHING to weigh It in relation to.

All the weight so called "scientists" of physical things is in relation to be against earth's gravity. A particle or object of matter no big nor how small it is FLOATING in so called "space" does not weigh anything. Now, transfer that thought to the WHOLE Universe, Itself, which is ALL space and ALL matter, then what could It be so called "heavy" in relation to exactly?

So if it were true that the universe was inside me,

But I NEVER said the Universe was inside of 'you', which, by the way, you are still uncertain of what the 'you' is anyway, but anyway, you are only looking at this, from this perspective, because it fits in with and suits your already held beliefs and assumptions about what is true and false.

then I should be at least as extremely heavy as the universe! But according to the scale, I am of average weight for my height and I not even 200 pound! So clearly according to this commonsensical argument, it follows that God cannot be the universe and God cannot be inside of me. May I respectfully ask you how much you weigh? I am not asking for any exact number; an upper limit or a range would be fine.

Who AND what 'i' am actually has NO weight? And, conversely,

Who AND what 'I' am actually has NO weight as well.

But we are a long, long way off this making any sense to 'you' yet.

But, since I NEVER said the physical Universe was in 'you', which would be nonsensical to say, and would be very comical to even imagine and assume I was saying that. But what I was saying AND MEANING is God, in the spiritual sense, which is thee Mind is within 'you'.

I have suggested this once or twice before, if you ask clarifying questions BEFORE you make assumptions, then you will not be as wrong as you can be or are, as many times as you can be or are.

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Sure, be grateful for being ALIVE, it is the only chance 'you' will get, but continually re-repeating praise is completely and utterly unnecessary. God/Allah KNOWS exactly what the thoughts are within the body anyway. So, saying things out loud only pleases some human beings, or, what might be the case, annoys and displeases other human beings.

You said that some human beings are pleased when I praise my Lord, the Almighty and some others are annoyed by it.

Did I? Is that EXACTLY what I have said?

May I ask you in which group do you belong to?

There is NO group.

Some human beings find some things pleasing sometimes, the same person or group of people that find some thing pleasing might not another time or might not any other time. There is NO one right or wrong thing here.

Any one and every one can find some things pleasing and/or displeasing, some times. It all depends on what one is feeling and thinking at the time, which is depended upon what they have previously experienced.

If I ask you a clarifying question, for example, and you tell me the first time, "Because it is written in the book", then I am pleased. You answered my clarifying question with the best answer you have at that time. But, if to further clarify that answer you by saying a second time, "Because it is written in the book", then I feel more displeased, and I allow a sense of annoyance to also arise.

See, if and when one is displeased or pleased is ALL depended upon how one is thinking AND feeling at the time, which OBVIOUSLY is NEVER the exact same from one moment to the next.

I mean, does it annoy you that I praise my Creator, the Almighty; or are you pleased when I praise my Lord; or neither, that is you are neither pleased nor annoyed by it?

When you tell me that your praise 'our' Creator and NOT 'your' Creator ONCE, then that is perfectly fine with me and pleases me. When you provide me with the reason WHY do you do this ONCE, then that is perfectly fine with me and pleases me. When you do both of these more than once, then the unnecessary need to do it displeases me more with each time you do it.

But do not let how I feel or see things from stopping you doing what you BELIEVE you 'have to' do.

Your own already held BELIEFS will override absolutely ANY thing, anyway.
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By the way, you did not have to re-write any of all of those already written words for me. Unless of course you just repeated this for the sake of others to show them how what I write and say relates to those texts.

Yes indeed you got that right. As you rightly suspected, even though we were both raised in the Christian tradition and know much of the Bible,

But I was NEVER raised in the so called "christian" tradition. Where did you get this absurd belief or assumption from?

Look at the actual words that I used, and NOT what you are assuming I am saying and meaning.

If you clarified with me BEFORE you wrote this, then we would not be wasting our times now with these extra words.

I know as much of the bible as I know of the quran, that is; NOTHING.

there are many intelligent readers on the forum who have had a different upbringing and might not know of the verses in that text. And besides, even if we already more or less know the Bible, sometimes a reminder of its content can be useful.

But none of you so called "christians" and so called "muslims" KNOW the bible NOR the quran YET. That is the very reason WHY the HATRED of each other and the KILLING of each other by BOTH OF YOU, continues.

But there is also the intellectually challenged and lazy poster Veritas Aequitas who, as you can see, is reading my posts to gain some knowledge for himself in-order to be less ignorant.

But the poster known as "veritas aequitas" is NO more 'intellectually challenged' than you and i are. That poster just has different beliefs than you do.

So, for the special condition of Veritas Aequitas, I have to go very slowly and expound everything in minute detail and spoonfeed him for him to stand a chance of understanding.

Did you forget already that what I say does not make sense to you. How much detail and how much time would it take for you to understand me FULLY?

By the way, what you want to teach the one known as "veritas aequitas" will NEVER be understood, nor accepted, by that one. This is because that one is STUCK and BLINDED by their own already gained and strongly held BELIEFS. No matter how much time and detail you provide one with a BELIEF. While a human being maintains a BELIEF they are absolutely incapable of comprehending and understanding anything contrary to that BELIEF.

Even through this spoonfeeding, it is not guaranteed that he will be able to understand though! And as he is a Buddhist (he took the vow of the bodhisattva) as well, I have to also think about his overall condition wherever possible and make everything very clear.
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If you read the actual words I wrote again you can clearly see that I said; I am pretty sure that people of every religion or following could find examples.

I do not have any examples, but this because I have not looked for any examples.

Alright, I thank you for this information. So, you were pretty sure of something you had not even looked into. By the way, this is called wishful thinking and in logic, wishful thinking is a logical fallacy.

You MISSED my point once more.

I have NOT personally looked for the examples you want. But, I have experienced and observed a lot of human beings who will look for things that back up and support their already held beliefs and assumptions and so have also gained things that do back up and support their already held beliefs and assumptions. This behavior that I see and observe very regularly is called 'confirmation bias'.

Now, if you want to REALLY find an example in the WHOLE of the human society where a fetus, a baby, a child, and an adult has shown some kind of soothing or emotional reaction to some sort of musical melody, speech, music itself, humming, versing, or anything other noise, then I am pretty sure that you yourself could find it, that is; if you REALLY wanted to.

With the invent of the internet and personal videos on the internet I am pretty sure there would be a few examples there. See, I do not care to look for any because I have NO underlying belief that I am trying to back up and support. But, I have witnessed a lot of human beings show me things, which they say backs up and supports their already gained beliefs. Therefore, I am pretty sure that if a person believes that nursery rhymes are good for "heart" and the "soul" of the young, then they could find examples of when reading or playing music to the young soothes them. I am also pretty sure that there would be examples of adults being moved to tears when pieces of the bible are read out to them. But, again, I have no purpose to look for any, and so I will not.

If you think and/or believe that what I am saying is wishful thinking and a logical fallacy, then so be it. I do not care. I just KNOW that it is NOT "wishful thinking" because I do NOT 'wish' for any examples to be there or to not be there.

By the way, are you wishing for one way or the other? If there are examples that what you showed can happen in other religions and other followings, then what would that do to your examples, which you were trying to use as 'evidence' for one thing or another?

Do you 'wish' there are other examples, or are you hoping and 'wishing' there is not? Either way, is that "wishful thinking"? And, if it is, then according to your so called "logic", then that is a "logical fallacy".

But, then again, you might not care one iota if some one does provide examples that what you used as "evidence" for your religion and following can also appear in other religions and/or followings. But, if you really do not care, then are you REALLY being Honest here?

See, what I suggest is you read the actual words that I use and write, clarify with me on them, BEFORE you start making assumptions like you have been here. That way you will find yourself being less wrong, less of the time.

For myself, I always try to investigate beforehand and it is only when I have the evidence that I get certainty.

The very reason WHY I specifically used the words, "I am 'pretty sure' ", is because I was NOT certain.

I was asking you for these examples because I did investigate it for the other religions and I did not find anything similar to the Holy Quran recitation for any other religions.

How far afield did you supposedly "look" and "investigate"? The amount of personal videos and personal messages on the internet is rather vast and large and only getting bigger by the minute. Are you absolutely certain you did a 'thorough' investigation?

So I thought, as you were pretty sure, may be you had found something interesting on the subject. But alas, this is not the case. But anyway, if you find for the other religions something similar to the Quran recitation examples I gave and you are interested in sharing then you can still post it here to inform me at a time of your convenience. So, the question is still open.

But I have absolutely NO interest at all if there is any or not.

I just said I am pretty sure you could FIND SOMEONE who could find examples.

Just like you were very quickly able to so call "find" so called "information" or "examples" that "back up" and "support" your own already held beliefs and assumptions, then I think what you will actually FIND is OTHERS that can also very quickly "find" so called "information" or "examples" that "back up" and "support" their own already held beliefs and assumptions.

See, human beings are so ready and so quick to look for and find 'that' what they call "evidence" for their already held beliefs and assumptions, that what I think you will FIND is there are people who could find what you were asking for. One only has to be Truly looking for those people to FIND them.

Or, one might just have to do an internet search to find what they are looking for.

What was the specific thing you wanted examples of again. Maybe if you type that into an internet search engine, then you might get what you are supposedly "looking for"? Or, maybe if you write it down here in very specific words 'that' what you are looking for, and then I could do a search for it. But, obviously to get the example of what you are looking for, then you have to be very specific in what it is that you are looking for. For example, do you want an example of a crying baby being soothed from the music of a religion or any other following other than islam, then, if so, then just say that say that to people of another religion, or following, and as I said, I am pretty sure someone would even go and make a video if they believed that would make you sway over to their "side" or over to their "way of thinking", or at least sway you away from your "side" or away from your "way of thinking".
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As I said I do not have any examples so you will have to ask the people of particular religions if they have any or if they could find any.

The people of the other religions with whom I interacted with did not say they were pretty sure of anything on the matter, and others yet are not even sure about anything whatsoever. It was only you whom I know were pretty sure on this subject. So I thought it made sense that I should ask you as you were pretty sure. And besides the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. But anyway, you already said you had nothing on this so far, so I got my answer.

Yes I have NOTHING on this, but this is because I do NOT want to have ANYTHING either way. I do NOT "pick sides".

I have also said if you REALLY want some example, then you could find some one who could get it for you, even if they just made the video themselves.

Besides all of this, your "examples" do NOT prove any actual thing and are NOT any actual evidence for one particular thing or another.

Also, if you want to go down the "burden of proof" line, then remember you are claiming that those video examples supposedly "prove" some thing or other. So, how about you make it absolutely clear what they are supposedly "proving" exactly, and then explain HOW and WHY those video examples supposedly "prove" what you say and allege they are "proving"?
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If God/Allah is in 'you', then that certainly does not instantly make 'you' God/Allah. So, just because God/Allah AND the knowledge of ALL is within you, the that does not mean that you are Conscious and Aware of It. Just like you are not yet Aware of how to properly and correctly distinguish between what is right and wrong in Life, yet you even just said that that knowledge had been implanted in you already.

I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me.

What is "it" exactly, which you believe I believe here?

What part of what I said is not true, not right, and/or not correct, and then explain HOW and WHY they are not.

If you allow me now, there are some clarifying questions on your beliefs that I will like to ask.

GREAT. This is what I Truly SEEK and WANT. But first, let us CLEAR UP your first misunderstanding. I NEITHER believe nor disbelieve any thing at all. Please respond to this and let me know that you have comprehend this, that is makes sense to you, that you understand it, and that you accept it.

May I ask: do you think that all knowledge, past, present and future is already within you at the time that you are reading this?

No.

The knowledge of what is right and what is wrong in Life is already within you. It is in fact information held within the dna of the physical body, and which the body is instinctively guided by. This Knowledge and all the other Truly meaningful KNOWING is within, but this is just still unconsciously known, in most.

All other knowledge is just learned, along the way. And like all of this knowledge is learned and passed on down through the generations, once the knowledge of HOW to unlock the already held unconscious KNOWING within is passed on to others, then that knowledge also gets passed on down through the generations until it just becomes basic KNOWING, which does not need to be taught anymore.

See unlike knowledge that creates and causes greed, selfishness, pollution, and all the other against our True wants and wishes, which have taken thousands of years to become a "part of us", the Knowledge that is for our own good and what is Truly wanted and desired anyway only takes a generation or two before it 'becomes us', which in turn allows us to become who we Truly ARE, (also known as: our True Selves, or thy True Self).

If so, what is the method you use to access this knowledge if it is not available to you instantly?

The knowledge, for example, of how to plant and sow a field of crops, or the knowledge of how to build and fly a craft to the moon, or of how to drive a car was/is NOT already within us. The method I use to access this knowledge is to just have the 'want' to learn it, then do what it takes to learn it.

The Knowledge, however, of what is already within us when we are born, for example, is available almost "instantly". Although the brain can work relatively quickly there is still a few tenths, hundredths, or thousands of seconds of delay. But anyway, how to access this knowledge is the exact same as with all the other knowledge AT FIRST. That is to gain the knowledge of how to do it.

But just to side track first. To me, for ever problem there is a solution. And, every 'problem' is just a question asked for a solution. So, to me, the only True so called 'problem' in Life, is just the question: How can we find the solution to all of our problems? (Which means more or less the exact same as: How can we find the answers to all of our questions?)

Now, for questions regarding physical/material things, then they are not really meaningful (full of meaning) questions, and which the answers will always be looked for and found for as long as 'we' exist for. But, for the questions regarding the Truly meaningful things in Life, then these answers are the ones within, which can be found and KNOWN almost immediately.

For EVERY question/problem, there is an answer/solution, and for every solution, there is a formula.

So, the answer/solution for the question/problem; How can we find the answer that will solve ALL of our problems, lays within the question itself - HOW?

HOW is the formula that solves ALL of our problems. HOW is just being Truly Honest, Open, and a seriously Wanting to learn how to become better, not for one's personal self, but for those that follow, and will eventually lead. That is; Children.

The method I use to access thee EXACT SAME KNOWLEDGE within EVERY one is by just being absolutely, Truly and FULLY Honest, then I become Truly OPEN, and then I can learn and SEE ALL.

For example, how to access the Knowledge of what is right and what is wrong in Life, is NOT done how as children we are taught to believe how to access this, and this is by listening to and following your elders, and if you do not do it, then you will be severely punished. This is OBVIOUSLY what is WRONG in Life, but as children we are taught to believe that this is what we 'have to' do, and then as adults we teach, unconsciously, this same way to the next generation of children.

But, to access the Right Knowledge within, one only has to look at a new born human baby for guidance of how to work out what the Right Knowledge in Life IS.

A new born teaches us there is only four 'needs' in Life, therefore absolutely every thing else desired are just 'wants', and wanting more than one needs is just greed. As children we are taught to want more than we need, and to "justify" these 'wants' over other's 'needs'. But we are not conscious nor aware of this yet. Then, the actual method used to KNOW if what one is seeing and thinking is the Right Knowledge is actually the one True and Right Knowledge is to just become naturally Aware that absolutely EVERY one would agree with this Knowledge. If absolutely EVERY one can, then one KNOWS they have gained thee actual Truth of things.

(This is only a tiny fraction and snippet of ALL the other things that need to be expressed, shared, comprehend, made sense of, and be understood. But with enough clarifying questions AND challenges I KNOW I can SHOW and REVEAL ALL-OF-THIS).

I want to know more about what your perspective is on this if you be interested to share of course.

I am VERY INTERESTED.

Just some advice, the more specific the clarifying questions you ask me, then the more thorough and clearer the answer I can and will provide you.

As far as I am concerned, I do not believe that all knowledge is within me.

To gain clarity absolute clarity on this, there needs to be another huge jump up to an even far higher level, then where you are at now, of comprehending and understanding thee actual True Nature of Being God Itself.

See, just like human beings have "evolved from the apes", and how the "apes evolved from what was before", so to will "human beings evolve out of being human-like and up and into Being God" (like).

But before any of this can take place, human beings have to get out of the habit of 'believing things to be true' BEFORE they find out what thee actual Truth IS FIRST.

See, for example, If you do not believe that all knowledge is within me, then you are NOT OPEN to the fact that all knowledge just MIGHT BE within you. So, you will NEVER learn what thee actual Truth IS while you are maintaining that belief nor ANY other belief. Remember this is NOT to say that thee actual Truth IS the opposite of what one believes it is. This is to just say that they will NEVER learn what thee actual Truth IS if and while they are believing that they already know what 'it' is.

But, to get to that stage of understanding and seeing how it actually makes sense, one has to be Truly Honest about their wrong doing, and be Honest for the sake of changing them 'self' for the better, and not just for them but for the others that what Life is Truly about, that is; Children.

'Honesty' is the key to unlocking ALL of the so called "mysteries" in Life. I say, "so called", because to me they have already been solved.

I believe that there are many things that I do not know and cannot even know.

You are FREE to believe whatever you like, but, how for example, could you logically and reasonably believe that there are thing that you could not even know? What happens if you happen to come to know those things? Are you still not going to believe that you can know them?

Also, there is NO need to believe that there are many thing that you do not know, because OBVIOUSLY there are many things that even ALL human beings collectively do not know. No one has to believe this to be true, for it to be thee actual Truth of things. This is just common Knowledge which we ALL KNOW is True. This is just an unambiguous irrefutable and plain FACT. One can either just accept it, or, at first glance, will have a hard time disproving it.

But I am interested in knowing your perspective on this and hopefully learn a couple of more things about your beliefs and way of life.

Just to forewarn if you mention that I have a belief or that I believe any thing in further posts, then we are not going to get anywhere.

Let me tell you a story about assumptions and beliefs.

I was positioned in front of some people with relative power of me. I was being accused of doing some thing to some one. I was saying that it did not happen. They asked me, "What if we brought this person here?" I clarified by asking them, "Why? Are you assuming what that person would say?" One of them was honest and said, "Yes". I could see that they knew that this assuming was the wrong thing to do, because they did not actually KNOW what that person would have actually said". I then asked another clarifying question. "What happens if that person said what I have been saying?" It was then expressed very clearly by another person, "I would not believe it!"

From that day on I have never had another belief nor believed anything again. I could see just how strongly having and maintaining a belief can actual STOP a human being from learning, seeing, and understanding what thee actual Truth IS.

To that person it did not matter if the actual person that they assumed something happened to them said from their own FREE WILL that it did not happen, to a person who was believing otherwise then they just could not and would not even accept what thee actual Truth IS.

To a person with beliefs, then they are completely CLOSED OFF to any thing contrary to that belief. So, although you do not have to do, I do strongly suggest read what I write with absolutely any beliefs at all.

I hope that this clarifies WHY I neither believe nor disbelieve absolutely any thing and I hope I NEVER have to repeat this again.

I again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and perspective with me. I wish you and the forum members who are reading this a nice day.
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It would be a very rare occurrence if there are any other members, besides us two, reading all of what we are writing here.
[/quote]

"Lmfao, what a bunch of rubbish, "age", there is no such thing as "real one" in each person, cut off this retard nonsense from your vocabulary, a new born naby has a completely new self that had mever been born before, there is no "peaceful self" "real self" nonsense. This is pure rubbish.

stop captalizing words, it wont make them special m8.

[Flora]

After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs, medical personnel getting sick while trying to help others--it really makes me wonder what kind of "god" presides over such horror? Is there really a God at all? And if there were, would it not be a God of evil? I was once an atheist because I thought the world was too messed up to be run by a God. Later I was willing to switch to agnosticism because I thought maybe the world is not such an evil place after all. But now I see so much suffering and horror that It really makes me want to go back to being an atheist or else it makes me think God must be evil. I can't believe in a God who allows so much suffering.

This suffering is nothing. Human cause much more suffering than this. Moreover, these horrors we perceive as caused by a virus, is actually caused by humans. Virus in lungs is not that powerful to cause such horrors, but virus in mind is thousand times horrific than this, which you perceive as normal, common, ordinary, and almost nothing. That virus in mind and in character causing these horrors. The COVID-19 is not that powerful.

If you try to see clearly, you can see evil in mind and character causing this. We recognize evil in most clearest of forms, but not in minute forms. Evil in minute forms spread without any hindrance as if it is nothing and most people practice those evils in minute forms which cause widespread suffering and these sufferings of people go unnoticed and sometimes loss from such minute evils becomes irreparable. I mean to say evil is widespread, you just can't see it in their minute forms. Generally good people suffers from such common, normal, ordinary evils and evil people benefit. These common, normal and ordinary evils creating COVID-19 havoc.

[Age]

"Lmfao, what a bunch of rubbish, "age", there is no such thing as "real one" in each person, cut off this retard nonsense from your vocabulary, a new born naby has a completely new self that had mever been born before, there is no "peaceful self" "real self" nonsense. This is pure rubbish.


stop captalizing words, it wont make them special m8.

You have OBVIOUSLY misinterpreted what I have said and wrote so far, and you are completely misunderstanding me. But because you have NOT clarified on one single thing with me, then this is totally understandable.

But thanks for your sound advice to "cut of this retarded nonsense from my vocabulary" I will consider changing my WHOLE view of things here now.

[bahman]

After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs, medical personnel getting sick while trying to help others--it really makes me wonder what kind of "god" presides over such horror? Is there really a God at all? And if there were, would it not be a God of evil? I was once an atheist because I thought the world was too messed up to be run by a God. Later I was willing to switch to agnosticism because I thought maybe the world is not such an evil place after all. But now I see so much suffering and horror that It really makes me want to go back to being an atheist or else it makes me think God must be evil. I can't believe in a God who allows so much suffering.

There is no God, the creator, but there are good and evil creatures.