Hell

[Greatest I am]

I would love to know what your definition of God is.

Why? Does the evidence not speak for itself? Just kidding.

I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.

Regards
DL

[RCSaunders]

I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.

Yes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.

[Greatest I am]

I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.

Yes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.

No argument on this.

When thy push their faith and belief, I being a mean S O B, tell them to prove they have it by doing what Jesus says they can in scriptures. All he did and more.

That tends to shut down the conversation but I don't know why.

I don't know if they realize that they are either lying to themselves or that the bible is wrong, or if they are just lying to others out of habit.

Regards
DL

[bahman]

Hell exists within the majority of world's religions as a place where man is cuttoff from God through man's attachment to illusion.

People send themselves to hell with the Divine Image, man is created in, burning them due to their attachment to what is created rather than the creator.

This place is seperation of the internal and external identity of man from God.

It is manifested into a series of chaotic forms, through the transitory state of all sensual phenomena one is attached too, always cyclically passing in a state of generation and degeneration.

It is a self created place of the utmost cognitive dissonance, manifested as fire, darkness, and perpetual violence where man worships idols through attachment cause a sense of chaotic tension between his or her true nature and a lesser one.

The fire is the Divine image, perpetually manifested in man, burning what one gains a false identity through.

The violence is Divine justice in the sense one reaps what they sow where a life spent in dominating the images of God, in a way to seek greatness over God, cycles back.

The darkness is the transitory state of this false identity one is attached too continual unfolding as a primordial chaos.

Hell is self imposed isolation from God manifested under perpetual cycles of seperation from the source.

Forgiveness, generosity and prayer, as detachment from what is transitory and temporal, is the path out and away from this literal and metaphorical state.

Discuss.

Hell exists. Hell by itself is not a bad thing since evil is not synonym to bad.

[Age]

What is the empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

So you believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls because there is no empirical evidence that shows they do not exist.

I do not believe in those things.

Why did you assume I did?

Are you that truly in capable of answering my clarifying question making the most stupid and idiotic assumptions is all you can do, correct?

If no, then answer my clarifying question.

You made the claim; "There is no empirical evidence to show God/s exist, quite the opposite", which infers that there is empirical evidence to show that God does not exist. So, What is the empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

If you do not have the evidence or proof to back up and support your claims before you make a claim, then I suggest do not make that claim at all.

Until you provide some evidence to back and support your inferred claim that there is empirical evidence to show that God does not exist, then we have absolutely nothing to look at and see here.

By the way there is plenty of empirical evidence that clearly shows God does exist.

Well, if it's, "emprical evidence," it is only evidence of the empirical. If there were empirical evidence of a God, no one would doubt it. The reason so many people doubt there is God, (or the particular God you believe in), is because there is no such evidence.

Well it appears you seem to believe that you have concluded what the one and only actual Truth IS. Although absolutely every thing you just said here is contradictory, absurd, NOT true, and/or just an assumption and/or belief, which is obviously absolutely WRONG.

But you already believe you KNOW what the actual Truth is, so I will just leave you with that. You obviously have no interest in learning and understanding what the actual Truth IS here.

But maybe you just have a completely different view and use a completely different definition of what 'God' is, then what I see and have?

You ought to believe whatever you believe, so long as you are convinced by your own best reason, but if you are going to expect others to believe what you do, it is up to you to define what you mean.

Are you at all aware that what you are saying here is describing 'you' exactly?

'You', "rcsaunders", are the one who believes God does not exist. 'You', "rcsaunders", are absolutely convinced by your very own reasons that this is absolutely true. 'You', "rcsaunders", expect others to believe the same as what you, "rcsaunders", does. I asked 'you', "rcsaunders", to back up and support your belief that God does not exist, 'you', "rcsaunders", even implied that you have the empirical evidence to support your belief here. So, it is up to 'you', "rcsaunders", to define and explain what you mean.

But so far you have not, and appears will not.

For example, if you insist there is a God, before anyone else can know what you mean you have to explain what you mean by God--not in vague abstract terms, but in specifics that can be logically analyzed. Isn't that fair?

I do not insist there is a God. Remember it is 'you', "rcsaunders", who is here insisting that God/s do not exist.

By the way, I have already explained what I meant by the word 'God' (but not in this thread, in other threads. This thread is about hell). I did this not in vague abstract terms, but in specifics that can be logically analyzed, which I thought was fair.

I would love to know what your definition of God is.

'God', in the visible sense, is thee one and only Universe, Itself.

'God', in the non visible sense, is thee one and only Mind, Itself.

Are they specific actual enough terms, for 'you'?

If yes, then can they be logically analyzed, by 'you'?

But if no, then why not?

And, if those specific enough terms for 'you' can be logically analyzed by 'you', then go right ahead and logically analyze them as deeply and as much as you like. I think if you look at them properly or sincerely enough, then you will find that they will provide enough empirical evidence to logically conclude that that God does actually exist, which, by the way, this God is not that much at all different from the God/s in absolutely EVERY religion as well.

By the way do 'you', "rcsaunders", have a definition for 'God', which you believe and insist does not exist? I also would love to know what 'your' definition of 'God' is.

[Age]

I would love to know what your definition of God is.

Why? Does the evidence not speak for itself? Just kidding.

The so called "evidence" apparently speaks for itself in regards to God not existing, because people are not able to provide any, even though they very strongly implied that there is actual evidence.

I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.

Regards
DL

Do you also laugh when believers talk of no evidence, when their own definition of 'whatever' says that there is evidence?

By the way, it could be said that I just laugh at 'believers', full stop, and/or non stop. 'you', so called "greatest I am", appear to be a very strong 'believer', correct?

I was unaware that there was a specific biblical definition of faith that says there is no evidence. Could you link us to this, as this will come in very handy in showing and providing more and further proof.

[Age]

I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.

Yes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

Ahh, is this what "greatest I am" was referring to. Thanks, this is quite interesting and is obviously and will be more proof.

It is amazing the more that is provided the more evidence is revealed, and so more proof comes to light. The more of what 'you', human beings, believe is true is shown, then more of what is actually True can be seen, as well as understood.

It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.

What about those believers who believe God does not exist. Do they have the actual evidence that God does not exist and provide this evidence, or do they live by faith alone also?

[Age]

I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.

Yes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.

No argument on this.

When thy push their faith and belief, I being a mean S O B, tell them to prove they have it by doing what Jesus says they can in scriptures. All he did and more.

What did "jesus" say 'they' can do?

Where exactly did you get this knowledge from?

And, who is 'they'?

That tends to shut down the conversation but I don't know why.

I don't know if they realize that they are either lying to themselves or that the bible is wrong, or if they are just lying to others out of habit.

Regards
DL

[Age]

Hell exists within the majority of world's religions as a place where man is cuttoff from God through man's attachment to illusion.

People send themselves to hell with the Divine Image, man is created in, burning them due to their attachment to what is created rather than the creator.

This place is seperation of the internal and external identity of man from God.

It is manifested into a series of chaotic forms, through the transitory state of all sensual phenomena one is attached too, always cyclically passing in a state of generation and degeneration.

It is a self created place of the utmost cognitive dissonance, manifested as fire, darkness, and perpetual violence where man worships idols through attachment cause a sense of chaotic tension between his or her true nature and a lesser one.

The fire is the Divine image, perpetually manifested in man, burning what one gains a false identity through.

The violence is Divine justice in the sense one reaps what they sow where a life spent in dominating the images of God, in a way to seek greatness over God, cycles back.

The darkness is the transitory state of this false identity one is attached too continual unfolding as a primordial chaos.

Hell is self imposed isolation from God manifested under perpetual cycles of seperation from the source.

Forgiveness, generosity and prayer, as detachment from what is transitory and temporal, is the path out and away from this literal and metaphorical state.

Discuss.

Hell exists. Hell by itself is not a bad thing since evil is not synonym to bad.

What is 'hell' synonymous to, to you?

[bahman]

Hell exists within the majority of world's religions as a place where man is cuttoff from God through man's attachment to illusion.

People send themselves to hell with the Divine Image, man is created in, burning them due to their attachment to what is created rather than the creator.

This place is seperation of the internal and external identity of man from God.

It is manifested into a series of chaotic forms, through the transitory state of all sensual phenomena one is attached too, always cyclically passing in a state of generation and degeneration.

It is a self created place of the utmost cognitive dissonance, manifested as fire, darkness, and perpetual violence where man worships idols through attachment cause a sense of chaotic tension between his or her true nature and a lesser one.

The fire is the Divine image, perpetually manifested in man, burning what one gains a false identity through.

The violence is Divine justice in the sense one reaps what they sow where a life spent in dominating the images of God, in a way to seek greatness over God, cycles back.

The darkness is the transitory state of this false identity one is attached too continual unfolding as a primordial chaos.

Hell is self imposed isolation from God manifested under perpetual cycles of seperation from the source.

Forgiveness, generosity and prayer, as detachment from what is transitory and temporal, is the path out and away from this literal and metaphorical state.

Discuss.

Hell exists. Hell by itself is not a bad thing since evil is not synonym to bad.

What is 'hell' synonymous to, to you?

A place of pain, disgust, etc. Some people enjoy pain.

[RCSaunders]

What is the empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

So you believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls because there is no empirical evidence that shows they do not exist.

I do not believe in those things.

Why did you assume I did?

It's called satire. You argued that there is no empirical evidence that shows God does not exist as thought that made belief in God rational and I was illustrating that belief in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls is just a reasonable if lack of empirical evidence makes them reasonable.

You made the claim; "There is no empirical evidence to show God/s exist, quite the opposite", which infers that there is empirical evidence to show that God does not exist. So, What is the empirical evidence that shows God does not exist?

What's empirical evidence the unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls don't exist? So you have not reason to believe they do not exist.

If you do not have the evidence or proof to back up and support your claims before you make a claim, then I suggest do not make that claim at all.

Prove to whom? I don't believe in anything without evidence. I don't care if you do. I'm only telling you what I believe, and as far as I know, one is free to make any claim they like on this forum without answering to you. Isn't the right?

By the way there is plenty of empirical evidence that clearly shows God does exist.

Well, if it's, "empirical evidence," it is only evidence of the empirical. If there were empirical evidence of a God, no one would doubt it. The reason so many people doubt there is God, (or the particular God you believe in), is because there is no such evidence.

Well it appears you seem to believe that you have concluded what the one and only actual Truth IS. Although absolutely every thing you just said here is contradictory, absurd, NOT true, and/or just an assumption and/or belief, which is obviously absolutely WRONG.

But you already believe you KNOW what the actual Truth is, so I will just leave you with that. You obviously have no interest in learning and understanding what the actual Truth IS here.

That's fine. You do not have to agree with me, and may think whatever you want about my knowledge or lack thereof.

But maybe you just have a completely different view and use a completely different definition of what 'God' is, then what I see and have?

You ought to believe whatever you believe, so long as you are convinced by your own best reason, but if you are going to expect others to believe what you do, it is up to you to define what you mean.

Are you at all aware that what you are saying here is describing 'you' exactly?

'You', "rcsaunders", are the one who believes God does not exist. 'You', "rcsaunders", are absolutely convinced by your very own reasons that this is absolutely true. 'You', "rcsaunders", expect others to believe the same as what you, "rcsaunders", does. I asked 'you', "rcsaunders", to back up and support your belief that God does not exist, 'you', "rcsaunders", even implied that you have the empirical evidence to support your belief here. So, it is up to 'you', "rcsaunders", to define and explain what you mean.

But so far you have not, and appears will not.

For example, if you insist there is a God, before anyone else can know what you mean you have to explain what you mean by God--not in vague abstract terms, but in specifics that can be logically analyzed. Isn't that fair?

I do not insist there is a God. Remember it is 'you', "rcsaunders", who is here insisting that God/s do not exist.

Well, "insist," is not quite the right word. I know there is nothing supernatural, and no mystical or spiritual beings, but I do not care what superstitions others want to entertain. Believe whatever you like.

By the way, I have already explained what I meant by the word 'God' (but not in this thread, in other threads. This thread is about hell). I did this not in vague abstract terms, but in specifics that can be logically analyzed, which I thought was fair.

I'd be satisfied with a link to that post.

I would love to know what your definition of God is.

'God', in the visible sense, is thee one and only Universe, Itself.

'God', in the non visible sense, is thee one and only Mind, Itself.

Are they specific actual enough terms, for 'you'?

If yes, then can they be logically analyzed, by 'you'?

Oh yes. Since there is already a perfectly good word for the universe why is another word, "God," needed for the same thing. I certainly believe in the universe and see no reason to call it God, although I did a couple of articles that referred to the universe (or reality) as a metaphorical, "God." ["The Wisdom of Tathagatagarbha" It's satire.]

"Mind," is an attribute of a human being. There are no minds independent of the individual human beings who have minds. There is no more some mystical invisible, "mind," than there is some mystical invisible big toe. If there were no human beings there would be no minds or big toes.

By the way do 'you', "rcsaunders", have a definition for 'God', which you believe and insist does not exist? I also would love to know what 'your' definition of 'God' is.

Yes! A god is one of a class of imaginary or fictional things, like ghosts, leprechauns, unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls, that some people believe in.

[Lacewing]

What about those believers who believe God does not exist. Do they have the actual evidence that God does not exist and provide this evidence, or do they live by faith alone also?

Why do you call them believers?

Is a person a "believer" if they DON'T believe in something?

Such as yourself, below...

So you believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls because there is no empirical evidence that shows they do not exist.

I do not believe in those things.

And many people do not believe in a god. What is the difference between such things not believed?

[Greatest I am]

I would love to know what your definition of God is.

Why? Does the evidence not speak for itself? Just kidding.

The so called "evidence" apparently speaks for itself in regards to God not existing, because people are not able to provide any, even though they very strongly implied that there is actual evidence.

I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.

Regards
DL

Do you also laugh when believers talk of no evidence, when their own definition of 'whatever' says that there is evidence?

By the way, it could be said that I just laugh at 'believers', full stop, and/or non stop. 'you', so called "greatest I am", appear to be a very strong 'believer', correct?

I was unaware that there was a specific biblical definition of faith that says there is no evidence. Could you link us to this, as this will come in very handy in showing and providing more and further proof.

After a have my laugh, I give them this link on the logical fallacy, to show that it is impossible to show a negative.

To prove that a god does not exist, one would have to be able to look at all places in the universe at a given time.

That pesky god moves and you have to catch him on the run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyA8cIzosFU

Negatives can never be proven. Only positive claims can be.

It is to the one who cries wolf, to show the track and scat.

It is not to the other to prove that the wolf was never there.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Yes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.

No argument on this.

When thy push their faith and belief, I being a mean S O B, tell them to prove they have it by doing what Jesus says they can in scriptures. All he did and more.

What did "jesus" say 'they' can do?

Where exactly did you get this knowledge from?

And, who is 'they'?

"They"; are those who lie and say they have faith or belief. If it were true, they could demonstrate really keen powers. Levitation, etc.

I do not see anyone floating about.

The only place with any writings of a Jesus/Yahweh combo is in the myth called the bible.

Even the good stuff, but mostly immoral tenets that Christians always run away from.

A shame that, given that those are what I like to chat on.

Good Christian apologetics is just about dead. They do not have a moral pot to p in and leave skid marks all over the place as they spin away.

Cowards can never be moral.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Hell exists. Hell by itself is not a bad thing since evil is not synonym to bad.

What is 'hell' synonymous to, to you?

A place of pain, disgust, etc. Some people enjoy pain.

You know this place exists, how?

Where is it?

Regards
DL