Why Christianity May Be the Most Logical Religion.

[Eodnhoj7]

If you don't know what it is then you have no right to start a thread which includes it in the title.
Now bugger off.

I can't continue with the argument unless you present what defines logic. I already presented a definition, but you claim "illogic"...okay so what is "logic"?

If you want to begin a thread about logic then you you relly need to do your homework and not expect others to do it for you.
Now run along and find out what it is , THEN ask yourself if you've not been a silly boy trying to make the claims you have!!

False, I defined logic. You have not presented a definition, thus any claim you make about something being illogical is in fact illogical. The term logic, from your stance, is an empty term which can mean anything.

I already defined logic as connecting and separating assertions which synthesize into new assertions. This aligns with Christian metaphysics where the creator creates a seperate image and in turn synthesizes with it.

You have no stance to claiming what is illogical as logic is an empty term which can mean anything from your stance.

You have no grounding except angry ad-hominums . You see from your stance, everything is illogical not just Christianity.

[Averroes]

I am familiar with the ritual bath, I did it instinctively in my youth before even reading the verses in scripture. I interpret it as a ritual of purifying oneself from material aspects of reality prior to facing God (prayers, worship, etc.), but for a young man to do it instinctively implies some degree of divine inspiration somewhere.

This is a very interesting topic, and you are absolutely right on this. I thank you for sharing your beautiful story with us.

That “instinct” or natural disposition that you mentioned is known in Islam as the “Fitrah”. In Islam, the belief is that every human being is born in a state of, firstly, belief in God and also voluntary submission to the Will of God, the Almighty. In other words, in Islam we believe that every child of Adam is born as a Muslim. A Muslim means someone who voluntarily submits to the Will of God, the Almighty. The word “Islam” itself means voluntarily submitting one’s will to the Will of God, the Almighty; that is, doing what God commands us to do and refraining from what He forbids us.

It is reported in an authentic narration in Islam that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) reported that God said:

• “I created my servants in the right religion, but devils made them go astray.” (Saheeh Muslim)

Also, Allah, the Almighty says in the Quran, interpretation of meaning:

• So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know. [Quran 30:30]

Moreover, Allah, the Almighty details all that more explicitely in the following verses of the Holy Quran:

• And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
  And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
  He has succeeded who purifies it,
  And [he] has failed who instills it [with corruption]. (Quran 91: 7-10, interpretaion of meaning)

So, it is due to this natural disposition (instinct, or Fitrah in Arabic) that God, the Almighty had already placed in you since birth that you felt it natural that you should purify yourself before standing in prayer to your Creator. This makes perfect sense to me. I agree with you on this.

The Quran is described in several places in the Holy Quran itself as a Reminder. It is a reminder in many respects. It is firstly a reminder to this natural disposition that you mentioned that is already in us since birth. We humans tend to be forgetful and weak as well, and we then make mistakes. So, the reminder that God sent to us in the form of the Holy Quran is a very much needed resource to help us stay firm and upright in our natural disposition of obedience to Him.

And it is also a reminder in that it confirms the scriptures that came before it, for example it confirms the scriptures given to Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus(peace be upon them). As you already know, both these prophets(pbuh) preached the worship of God, the Almighty alone and the upholding of His commands.
_________________________________

Please, allow me to dig a bit deeper into this interesting and important subject.

On the same subject, have you remarked that in all the major religions, the worshipping of God the Almighty alone is the most important of all commandments? This is not just in the Abrahamic religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam but also in Hinduism. You must already know the Shema Yisrael (“Hear O Israel” in Hebrew) verse in Deuteronomy 6:4-5, which is said to be the most important commandment by Prophet Jesus(pbuh) according to Mark 28-30. Let me quote these for easy reference:

• Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. [Deuteronomy 6: 4-5]

• 13 Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. [Deutoronomy 6:13-15]

• One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
  29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. [Mark 28-30]

And, this is the same fundamental belief prescribed in the most sacred scriptures of Hindusim as well:

• O’ friends, if you don’t worship anyone, except one God, you will be saved from violence. (Rig Veda 8-1-1)
  Those who worship natural things (such air, water, fire etc...) enter into darkness. They sink further deep in darkness those who worship sambhuti(created things, such as idols, statues etc.). (Yajur Veda 40:9)
  "There is no image if Him, as He is unborn, He deserves our worship." (Yajurveda 32:3)
  
  "Of Him there are neither parents nor lord." (Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9)
  "There is no likeness of Him" (Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19)

And we are reminded throughout the Holy Quran of this fundamental aspect of belief in our Creator, the Almighty:

• And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. [Quran 2:163, interpretation of meaning]
  
  Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [Quran 2:255, interpretation of meaning]
  
  O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. [Quran 4:171, interpretation of meaning]

______________________________________

You may also have noticed that since this is the most fundamental belief in all the major religions, this is the first thing that satan, the cursed attacks in us, because once satan the cursed has succeeded in driving us away from the belief in the absolute oneness of God, then his job is done as anything we will be doing afterwards will then be in vain.

And this is exactly what happened in the religion that I was raised into, i.e. trinitarian Christianity. I was honest enough with myself to come to accept that the fundamental tenets of trinitarian Christianity has gone against not only our natural disposition of belief in God, the Almighty, but also against the Christian scriptures themselves. For example, when reading the words ascribed to prophet Jesus(pbuh) in the Bible, it is clear that he always said to worship only God, the Almighty and no one else. And it is also reported in the Bible that Jesus (pbuh) made clear statements [e.g. Mark 10:18, Mark 13:32, John 5:30, John 14:28, etc...] that he was not God, the Almighty, and yet I was told to worship Jesus by my surrounding environment! It might have been a hard realization for me but I had to finally admit that satan, the cursed had entered the house of Christianity and corrupted the religion that Prophet Jesus(pbuh) preached. The overcoming of years of conditioning in trinitatian Christianity might have been hard, but it was even harder to continue in that manifest error. However, it must be said that not all Christians are the same. There were and still are some Christians who does not corrupt their natural disposition in that they worship only God, the Almighty and consider Prophet Jesus(pbuh) for what he truly is, that is, a human messenger of God, the Almighty. For example, the Unitarians and others. It’s just that I was raised in a badly corrupted Christian denomination.

Satan, the cursed is an avowed enemy to the son of Adam. As you may know his hatred for us is such that he has vowed to God, the Almighty that he will do his uttermost to drive us away from God, the Almighty, our Creator and Lord.

Allah, the Almighty informed us in the Holy Quran of the following statement of Satan, the cursed when the latter vowed to misguide us, the sons of Adam:

• [Satan] said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path. Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]." [Quran 7:16-17, interpretation of meaning]

And Allah, the Almighty replied:

• [ Allah ] said, "Get out of Paradise, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together." [Quran 7:18]

[Averroes]

If anything I believe there should be more dialogues between the faiths

I again absolutely agree with you. This has been a very fruitful exchange for me and I think it is important that we keep reminding ourselves in our interfaith dialogues of this natural disposition or instinct in us to worship only God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and anything in between. As a matter of fact, you have reminded me of the Fitrah by your mentioning of the natural disposition that God, the Almighty has placed in us. I had forgotten about this! And now, it is my hope that our interesting discussion might in turn cause our other brothers and sisters in humanity who have fallen for the trap of satan, the cursed, to be reminded as well and come back from their mistake. We should never despair of the mercy of our Creator, the Almighty.

As to my personal stance with Islam, I am neither for nor against it.

I understand John. I have been there too! It took me three years to embrace Islam. It was not that easy initially to embrace Islam, but once that step is done, then everything else becomes much easier. Some people embrace Islam as soon as they hear about it, but others like me need more time.

But in the meantime, you know about Prophet Abraham(peace be upon him), his story is in the Bible as well. So, what do you think about the God of Abraham (pbuh)? Can we make a step today to fight satan, the cursed by agreeing to worship only the God of Abraham(pbuh) and no one else?

Anyone else who wants to join in this step are most welcomed.

Allah, the Almighty says in the Quran:

• Say, “Allah has told the truth. So follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of the polytheists.” [Quran 3:95, interpretation of meaning]

[attofishpi]

Also, Allah, the Almighty says in the Quran, interpretation of meaning:
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth.
---And it is also a reminder in that it confirms the scriptures that came before it, for example it confirms the scriptures given to Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus(peace be upon them). As you already know, both these prophets(pbuh) preached the worship of God, the Almighty alone and the upholding of His commands.---

So.
Jesus - considered a mere prophet to you (peace be so upon him - if I didn't say that he might be in some trouble) spent his life deceiving everyone (obviously not Muslims because they didn't exist until about 500 years later) that He was the Son of God? ...and went to his death stating this - but now you have joined Islam and consider Christ (a prophet) a liar?

[Eodnhoj7]

If anything I believe there should be more dialogues between the faiths

I again absolutely agree with you. This has been a very fruitful exchange for me and I think it is important that we keep reminding ourselves in our interfaith dialogues of this natural disposition or instinct in us to worship only God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and anything in between. As a matter of fact, you have reminded me of the Fitrah by your mentioning of the natural disposition that God, the Almighty has placed in us. I had forgotten about this! And now, it is my hope that our interesting discussion might in turn cause our other brothers and sisters in humanity who have fallen for the trap of satan, the cursed, to be reminded as well and come back from their mistake. We should never despair of the mercy of our Creator, the Almighty.

As to my personal stance with Islam, I am neither for nor against it.

I understand John. I have been there too! It took me three years to embrace Islam. It was not that easy initially to embrace Islam, but once that step is done, then everything else becomes much easier. Some people embrace Islam as soon as they hear about it, but others like me need more time.

But in the meantime, you know about Prophet Abraham(peace be upon him), his story is in the Bible as well. So, what do you think about the God of Abraham (pbuh)? Can we make a step today to fight satan, the cursed by agreeing to worship only the God of Abraham(pbuh) and no one else?

Anyone else who wants to join in this step are most welcomed.

Allah, the Almighty says in the Quran:

• Say, “Allah has told the truth. So follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of the polytheists.” [Quran 3:95, interpretation of meaning]

My primary personal dissonance with embracing Islam is three fold.

1. The concept of the Trinity, as evidenced in my many posts, seems to be a universal degree in which reality operates. Reality expresses itself through dualistic extremes which are synthesized under a third medial phenomenon. It seems logical that God would synthesize with creation and be able to express

2. Personal answers to prayers after praying the Rosary.

3. The synthetic nature of the cross, in reference to point 1, seems to be established across a variety of religions including ancient Egyptian and Native American Paganism as well as the Buddhist Mandela. The cross seems to be an underlying symbol to how we interpret reality.


With that being said I am not anti Islam. My experience with the Muslim people has been far from negative and I cannot condemn the people's faith in light of the virtues I have seen them embody.

[Sculptor]

I can't continue with the argument unless you present what defines logic. I already presented a definition, but you claim "illogic"...okay so what is "logic"?

If you want to begin a thread about logic then you you relly need to do your homework and not expect others to do it for you.
Now run along and find out what it is , THEN ask yourself if you've not been a silly boy trying to make the claims you have!!

False, I defined logic. You have not presented a definition, thus any claim you make about something being illogical is in fact illogical. The term logic, from your stance, is an empty term which can mean anything.

I already defined logic as connecting and separating assertions which synthesize into new assertions. This aligns with Christian metaphysics where the creator creates a seperate image and in turn synthesizes with it.

You have no stance to claiming what is illogical as logic is an empty term which can mean anything from your stance.

You have no grounding except angry ad-hominums . You see from your stance, everything is illogical not just Christianity.

All you have shown is that Christianity has no logic whatever.
Congratualtions.

[Eodnhoj7]

If you want to begin a thread about logic then you you relly need to do your homework and not expect others to do it for you.
Now run along and find out what it is , THEN ask yourself if you've not been a silly boy trying to make the claims you have!!

False, I defined logic. You have not presented a definition, thus any claim you make about something being illogical is in fact illogical. The term logic, from your stance, is an empty term which can mean anything.

I already defined logic as connecting and separating assertions which synthesize into new assertions. This aligns with Christian metaphysics where the creator creates a seperate image and in turn synthesizes with it.

You have no stance to claiming what is illogical as logic is an empty term which can mean anything from your stance.

You have no grounding except angry ad-hominums . You see from your stance, everything is illogical not just Christianity.

All you have shown is that Christianity has no logic whatever.
Congratualtions.

Without providing your stance for what logic is, your statement can mean just about anything including "illogical". So how do you define logic? I already stated my definition.

[Averroes]

So.
Jesus - considered a mere prophet to you (peace be so upon him - if I didn't say that he might be in some trouble) spent his life deceiving everyone (obviously not Muslims because they didn't exist until about 500 years later) that He was the Son of God? ...and went to his death stating this - but now you have joined Islam and consider Christ (a prophet) a liar?

Hi attofishpi. Thank you for your questions. I will make an attempt to answer them if God wills.

Jesus, the Messiah was a prophet and a mighty messenger of God, the Almighty. In Islam, messenger-hood is the highest rank that a human being can achieve. Prophet Jesus (pbuh) never deceived anyone nor did he ever lied.

Many people are called "sons and daughters" of God in the Hebrew and Christian Bible, not just Prophet Jesus(pbuh).
In the Hebrew Bible, this appellation is most often given to prophet Jacob/Israel (pbuh) and his descendants, ie the Jews collectively. In Exodus, Prophet Jacob (pbuh) is described as the first born "son of God".

• The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'" (Exodus 4: -21-23)

In deutoronomy 32, it is said that God has taken Jacob as His inheritance, and in that same chapter Jacob's descendants(ie the Jews) are collectively called sons and daughters of God.

• The Lord saw this and rejected them because he was angered by his sons and daughters.(Deuteronomy 32:19)

In psalms 82, the Jews are even called gods and sons of the Most High.

• “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ (82:6)

There are many other Biblical verses like the samples shown above. Prophet Solomon and Prophet Adam our father(upon them be peace) are also called "sons of God" in the Bible.

As we have seen above, according to the Hebrew Bible all Jews are said to be 'sons of God'. Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was from among the children of Israel and he was sent as a messenger only to the children of Israel according to Mathew.

• A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." "Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." (Mathew 15:22-27)

According to this passage of the Christian Bible, it is said that Prophet Jesus(pbuh) was sent only to the Children of Israel, ie the Jews.
And according to the Hebrew Bible, all Jews are said to be "sons of God". So, this appellation is nothing specific to Prophet Jesus(pbuh).

In their Jewish traditions, the Jews understand the appellation "son of God" metaphorically. They do not think themselves as real gods or "sons of God".
Jews are required to worship only God, the Almighty. They are forbidden to worship themselves. You can verify this information from a Rabbi. I heard Rabbi Tovia Singer on this issue of the appellation “sons of God” in the Bible and he says it is understood metaphorically/figuratively by the Jews.

[Averroes]

My primary personal dissonance with embracing Islam is three fold.

1. The concept of the Trinity, as evidenced in my many posts, seems to be a universal degree in which reality operates. Reality expresses itself through dualistic extremes which are synthesized under a third medial phenomenon. It seems logical that God would synthesize with creation and be able to express

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 says the Lord is one and this is repeated in Mark 12:28-30 that the Lord is one. Trinity means three. So, the Trinity cannot be universal when it goes against the most important commandment of the Bible itself? Don't you agree?

• “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[Mark 12:28-30]

Notice that the verse does not say “The Lord is a trinity”, but says: “The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
Trinity means 3, whereas one means 1.

2. Personal answers to prayers after praying the Rosary.

Whether answered prayers is beneficial or not depends on certain conditions. It depends on 1. to whom the prayer is addressed, 2. the intention of the one who prays, and 3. the prayer itself.

If it was a prayer done with much sincerity and addressed to only God the Almighty, then the cure can be something beneficial.
But, if the prayer was addressed to some other than God, the Almighty then the cure is a trial for the person who prayed.

The first case can be good, because the person asked God, the Almighty only, so when the cure comes the person knows who cured him/her and the faith of the person in God, the Almighty increases.

In the second case, however, God the Almighty is testing that person who got cured. Since the prayer was not addressed to God, therefore the person does not know who cured him/her, and wrongly thinks that someone other than The Almighty can cure him/her. Such a person will then attach himself/herself to his/her false deity and thus detach himself/herself from The Almighty Who is the only true God. Such a person will be a loser in the Hereafter if he/she does not repent and come back to worshipping the Almighty alone.

Let’s take the Christian prayer known as the Lord's Prayer as example to illustrate. In that Christian prayer, the prayer is addressed to the Father. Now, the intention of the one praying has to be considered. If the person understands that the designation “Father” in the prayer is a metaphorical reference to God, the Almighty and is sincerely asking God, the Almighty only in the prayer, then the result can be beneficial. However, if the person thinks that the Father is the trinity, then it is not beneficial for him/her and the cure is a test from God, the Almighty.

Let’s take another Christian prayer, for example the Hail Mary prayer. The Hail Mary is a prayer addressed to Mary, the mother of prophet Jesus. Therefore, it is a prayer addressed to other than God, the Almighty. So it's not beneficial. It goes against the most important of all commandments in Bible, i.e. Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Mark 12:28-29.

In Islam, Mary(may Allah be pleased with her) is considered to be the best of all women. This is in the Quran itself.

• And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds. [Quran 3:42, interpretation of meaning]

But even though we too consider Mary (may Allah be pleased with her) to be a model for us and the best of all women, we never pray to her. Instead we pray for her and we ask God the Almighty to be pleased with her.

3. The synthetic nature of the cross, in reference to point 1, seems to be established across a variety of religions including ancient Egyptian and Native American Paganism as well as the Buddhist Mandela. The cross seems to be an underlying symbol to how we interpret reality.

But in the Bible, it is said that anyone who is hung on a cross is cursed by God.

• 22. If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, 23 you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

In Islam, though, we believe Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was not crucified nor did he died, but Allah, the Almighty raised him alive, body and soul in the heavens where he is waiting before his second coming. In his second coming, he will come as a mighty warrior of Allah, the All Knowing and destroy the Antichrist.

With that being said I am not anti Islam. My experience with the Muslim people has been far from negative and I cannot condemn the people's faith in light of the virtues I have seen them embody.

Everything is fine, don’t worry. This is a courteous interfaith discussion between us, as all our discussions have been in the past.

All I am saying now is that we should not worship anyone except God, the Almighty alone. The One Who created us, Who is the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Jesus and the only true God.
I understood that you are not ready to embrace Islam because you do not know enough about it yet. But, what I am asking you now is that we agree to worship the Creator alone and no one else. Previously we had talked about the instinct that God, the Almighty had put in us, so you already know who is the true God, and I am suggesting that we agree that we would worship Him and Him only. This is all I can do, I leave the decision to you.

Anyone else who wants to join in this agreement are still most welcomed.

[Eodnhoj7]

My primary personal dissonance with embracing Islam is three fold.

1. The concept of the Trinity, as evidenced in my many posts, seems to be a universal degree in which reality operates. Reality expresses itself through dualistic extremes which are synthesized under a third medial phenomenon. It seems logical that God would synthesize with creation and be able to express

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 says the Lord is one and this is repeated in Mark 12:28-30 that the Lord is one. Trinity means three. So, the Trinity cannot be universal when it goes against the most important commandment of the Bible itself? Don't you agree?

3 can exist as one. Solid/liquid/gas are three forms of water...there is just water.

• “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[Mark 12:28-30]

Notice that the verse does not say “The Lord is a trinity”, but says: “The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
Trinity means 3, whereas one means 1.

2. Personal answers to prayers after praying the Rosary.

Whether answered prayers is beneficial or not depends on certain conditions. It depends on 1. to whom the prayer is addressed, 2. the intention of the one who prays, and 3. the prayer itself.

If it was a prayer done with much sincerity and addressed to only God the Almighty, then the cure can be something beneficial.
But, if the prayer was addressed to some other than God, the Almighty then the cure is a trial for the person who prayed.

The first case can be good, because the person asked God, the Almighty only, so when the cure comes the person knows who cured him/her and the faith of the person in God, the Almighty increases.

In the second case, however, God the Almighty is testing that person who got cured. Since the prayer was not addressed to God, therefore the person does not know who cured him/her, and wrongly thinks that someone other than The Almighty can cure him/her. Such a person will then attach himself/herself to his/her false deity and thus detach himself/herself from The Almighty Who is the only true God. Such a person will be a loser in the Hereafter if he/she does not repent and come back to worshipping the Almighty alone.


To ask for prayers, to those in Heaven, since they are still living, differs little from asking for prayers from those empirically alive. It reflects ancestor honor/worship in non abrahamic Faith's, it is instinctive by nature.

Second Mary, the Mother of God, is genetically united to Christ as mother. To ask prayers from the mother of God is to ask for prayers from a mediator to Christ as an extension of Christ.

Third, those who are saved through Christ are the body of Christ, to ask for prayers from the body of Christ is to ask for mediation of the body through the body; it is a variation of Christ through the salvation under the Birth/Crucifixion/Resurrection where man and God became united.

Let’s take the Christian prayer known as the Lord's Prayer as example to illustrate. In that Christian prayer, the prayer is addressed to the Father. Now, the intention of the one praying has to be considered. If the person understands that the designation “Father” in the prayer is a metaphorical reference to God, the Almighty and is sincerely asking God, the Almighty only in the prayer, then the result can be beneficial. However, if the person thinks that the Father is the trinity, then it is not beneficial for him/her and the cure is a test from God, the Almighty.

Let’s take another Christian prayer, for example the Hail Mary prayer. The Hail Mary is a prayer addressed to Mary, the mother of prophet Jesus. Therefore, it is a prayer addressed to other than God, the Almighty. So it's not beneficial. It goes against the most important of all commandments in Bible, i.e. Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Mark 12:28-29.

In Islam, Mary(may Allah be pleased with her) is considered to be the best of all women. This is in the Quran itself.

see above.

• And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds. [Quran 3:42, interpretation of meaning]

But even though we too consider Mary (may Allah be pleased with her) to be a model for us and the best of all women, we never pray to her. Instead we pray for her and we ask God the Almighty to be pleased with her.

see above.

3. The synthetic nature of the cross, in reference to point 1, seems to be established across a variety of religions including ancient Egyptian and Native American Paganism as well as the Buddhist Mandela. The cross seems to be an underlying symbol to how we interpret reality.

But in the Bible, it is said that anyone who is hung on a cross is cursed by God.

Yes, God took on the irreparable damage of the sin debt as an act of mercy. God abandoned God to unite with man.

• 22. If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, 23 you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

In Islam, though, we believe Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was not crucified nor did he died, but Allah, the Almighty raised him alive, body and soul in the heavens where he is waiting before his second coming. In his second coming, he will come as a mighty warrior of Allah, the All Knowing and destroy the Antichrist.

With that being said I am not anti Islam. My experience with the Muslim people has been far from negative and I cannot condemn the people's faith in light of the virtues I have seen them embody.

Everything is fine, don’t worry. This is a courteous interfaith discussion between us, as all our discussions have been in the past.

All I am saying now is that we should not worship anyone except God, the Almighty alone. The One Who created us, Who is the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Jesus and the only true God.

See above. Man becomes God through Christ, thus the versus of "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind" and "love your neighbor as yourself" are co laws as well as the importance of making amends with your neighbor prior to prayer.
I understood that you are not ready to embrace Islam because you do not know enough about it yet. But, what I am asking you now is that we agree to worship the Creator alone and no one else. Previously we had talked about the instinct that God, the Almighty had put in us, so you already know who is the true God, and I am suggesting that we agree that we would worship Him and Him only. This is all I can do, I leave the decision to you.

Anyone else who wants to join in this agreement are still most welcomed.

[jayjacobus]

.

1. The concept of the Trinity, as evidenced in my many posts, seems to be a universal degree in which reality operates. Reality expresses itself through dualistic extremes which are synthesized under a third medial phenomenon. It seems logical that God would synthesize with creation and be able to express

In Christian theology the trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

In a human the trinity is the body, mind and spirit or it is perhaps the ego, the mind and the spirit.

I am not certain but I am considering some of these concepts.

[Eodnhoj7]

.

1. The concept of the Trinity, as evidenced in my many posts, seems to be a universal degree in which reality operates. Reality expresses itself through dualistic extremes which are synthesized under a third medial phenomenon. It seems logical that God would synthesize with creation and be able to express

In Christian theology the trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

In a human the trinity is the body, mind and spirit or it is perhaps the ego, the mind and the spirit.

I am not certain but I am considering some of these concepts.

If Man is made in the image of God, and God is a trinity, then by default man and God (as well as other aspects of creation) must take on a trinitarian nature as well. What seems to repeat in all facets of logic, many religions, and empirical reality is 3...at least what I have observed so far. Even 4 is a dualism of dualisms as a dualism....again a triad.

[Skepdick]

The fact is that every scientific concept (energy, mass etc.) suffers from a "God of the gaps" argument.

Not if you're an instrumentalist.

Especially if you are an instrumentalist. Knowing an instrument is incomplete does not preclude one from using it.

An incomplete instrument is still better than no instrument.

We act on incomplete information. That's the defining property of being in the real world. Acting under uncertainty.

Gravity is whatever makes things fall to Earth and celestial bodies go round each other. It will go away when those things stop happening.

That is exactly the same type of argument as God of the Gaps!

You have made Gravity a sacred-cow. You have relegated Gravity to unfalsifiable status. You have made Gravity a placeholder for any future theory we might produce that explains the phenomena being observed.

God is whatever makes existence exists. God will go away when existence stops existing.
Phlogiston was whatever made things burn/combust/oxidise. Phlogiston went away when we found a good enough theory to explain the phenomena of burning/combustion/oxidation.

Gravity is whatever makes things fall to Earth and celestial bodies go round each other.Gravity will go away when we find a good enough theory to explain how/why things fall and celestial bodies go around each other.

When scientific knowledge progresses - mystical words get relegated to religious beliefs.

Gravity is a mystical word. Gravity is your God.

[uwot]

You have made Gravity a sacred-cow. You have relegated Gravity to unfalsifiable status. You have made Gravity a placeholder for any future theory we might produce that explains the phenomena being observed.

And you are ranting like a blithering half-wit. It really is terribly simple: gravity is a measurable force. All you need is some bathroom scales and you too can measure the attraction between two bodies. You can attribute that force to anything you like and call it toad-in-the-hole for all I care, and if we all suddenly drift off into space, it will be falsified.

Gravity is your God.

Aw, now you're just being insulting.

[Skepdick]

And you are ranting like a blithering half-wit.

Your lack of understanding, suggests that at least one of us is a half-wit.

It really is terribly simple: gravity is a measurable force.

No, it isn't. It's a Mathematical constant. It's axiomatically defined.

It's the G in F = ( G * m1 * m1 ) / r^2, and the G in Einstein's field equations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_constant

G is meters cubed per kilogram per second squared:

In the classical sense, what you can measure is mass and distance. And from those measurement you can derive Gravity. Obviously - since you have pre-supposed it! Having G in your equation.

That's how all tautologies work.

All you need is some bathroom scales and you too can measure the attraction between two bodies.

Q.E.D what you are measuring is either mass or weight (depending on the design of your scale), but you are not measuring gravity.

You can calculate the "force between the two objects" (that which you call gravity), BECAUSE you have axiomatically pre-supposed G!

And you can calculate G because you have axiomatically pre-supposed, meters, kilograms and seconds. The whole system is circular once you accept the constants.

You can attribute that force to anything you like and call it toad-in-the-hole for all I care, and if we all suddenly drift off into space, it will be falsified.

You don't even understand how falsification works. If we "suddenly drifted into space" (but our bodies remained put together to observe it) that would be some crazy shit!!! Q.E.D you have rendered gravity unfalsifiable.

It's exactly the same as saying "If we suddenly ceased to exist then that would falsify existence". Uhhhhh!

Falsification is descriptive, not empirical. Our experience of things moving/falling is constant - only our theories describing the phenomena change.

If we came up with a better mathematical description, a theory of quantum gravity that describes all the phenomena we observe (motion, things falling, things attracting each other), and that theory does not depend on the gravitational constant G, then Gravity is falsified.

Whatever new constant/axiomatically assumed symbol/quantity we need to accept in order for our equations to work. that is the thing which falsified Gravity.