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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:10 am
by gaffo
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:23 am
gaffo wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:35 am thankfully most of us are in the middle and "live- and years of living" offer wisdom to use with at least some wisdom genes to use to learn from/with.
:D
like guns gays and abortion babies the subject of "does God exist or not" literally bores me.
Well, why take a position on it, then?
I'm an ant, my nature is too low to "know God nature or even if he exists" - i do not fixate upon matters beyond my knowing. I assume he does not in this life via conventional empricsm, if in the next life i find myself wrong (GREAT! - I never like being an Athiest - its a negation of an aferlife (though an afterlife buring in hell forever offers no more appeal than my Athiest - less maybe even).
That's certainly a different picture than I would have of our situation. Though we might be immeasurably less than God, we are not "ants." The Christian view is that despite our distance, we are objects of the interest and affection of the Divine.

So that's quite different.
I'll leave my soul's fate up to your God

It's interesting how close that is, in some ways, to what He asks us to do. Not to think we can earn our way to Him, but rather to give up on all that, and say, to quote the words of Jesus in the Parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, "God be merciful to me, the sinner."
oh, thanks for reply to my iquary, i do not see my athiesm as closeminded mayself.
This is the old debate, of course: is "Atheism" a denial of the existence of God, or merely a form of agnosticism, the more open-minded admission of not knowing.
I think both Darkins and Hitchens are/were hacks - don't respect either personally. neither are "Thinkers" just celebrities.
Well, Mr. Hitchens was a great rhetorician and stylist, but I agree that the arguments he offered were not very good ones. Mr. Dawkins, I think, lacks Hitchens' style, and his arguments aren't any better.

But what can one expect from somebody who made up his mind at 17?
tbanks for reply, and agree with all if it. my identity personally is - i strive to be a good man, and value others this the same mantra - regarless of there Faith/lack of.....my Atheism did not define me when i as 12 anymore that it does today. I value moral conduct, its that simple. if you are an athiest dick you dick size - length and circumperence is the same as if you are a Christian or Muslim dick - in my book.

Chris Hitchens is the dead one? yes? (cancer is a bad thing - sorry the guy dead - have nothing against the man - just thought he offered little wisdom in his views (no sure if he was married or had kids. if so - sad for them - never knowing him personally no clue if he was a good man nor not) - his brother Steve? "historian, is still alive and WRT to what he says about history, seems even less informed than his brother!

A nit IMO.

thanks for reply though, you have a mind and are civll - you and i showed each other civility - and i really do want to "Talk about your top 3/4 books of the bible" - and why you value then. so to discuss.

peace.

Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 3:52 pm
by cicero117
Hi, I have a Christian background and I will try my best to answer this thread.

I think there's a different kind of "hate" between Christians and Muslims to Jew.
- Some Christians hate Jews (especially in the early Church era, after the Pentacost) because the Jews did not accept the fact that gentiles could be saved from sin, they still believed that only Jews were the one who's worthy of Salvation. Though maybe during this era, it was more of the Jews who hates on the gentiles.
As a Protestant Christian, I accept the traditions of Jews and I don't hate them because those traditions are history of the times before Jesus came into the world (pre-New Testament).
- As for Muslims, I think the fight is mostly over the rights of Palestine. As you have known, Islam came from Ishmael which is the first son born to Abraham but was shunned afterwards along with his mother, Hagar who is a Sarah's slave. Maybe the fact that Isaac and Ishmael does not have a great relation between each other passed down to their descendants (just my idea ). Anyway, the major reason why Muslim hates the Jews is because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which fought over the land.

I'm still learning regarding the historical foundation of Byzantine and the fall of Constantinople so pardon me if there's some mistakes on the facts.

Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:17 pm
by Greatest I am
cicero117 wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 3:52 pm
Hi, I have a Christian background and I will try my best to answer this thread.

I think there's a different kind of "hate" between Christians and Muslims to Jew.
- Some Christians hate Jews (especially in the early Church era, after the Pentacost) because the Jews did not accept the fact that gentiles could be saved from sin, they still believed that only Jews were the one who's worthy of Salvation.


Hi newbie.

Thanks for the good reply.

To your point.

Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, indicated that Jews were more universalist.

Galatians 3:28, KJV: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Though maybe during this era, it was more of the Jews who hates on the gentiles.
I do not see Jews hating Christians, even though the centuries of persecution and inquisitions should have them hating those who usurped their religion and corrupted it's teachings and changed many of the moral of the myth by reversing it.

For instance, the Original Virtue of Eden was reversed to Original Sin. A doctrine that was not Jewish at all.
As a Protestant Christian, I accept the traditions of Jews and I don't hate them because those traditions are history of the times before Jesus came into the world (pre-New Testament).
Jesus preached against organized religions and the literal reading of myths, but you do not seem to be of that mind set as you believe in a literal Jesus, I think.
- As for Muslims, I think the fight is mostly over the rights of Palestine.


That was not even an issue when Muslims began to hate Jews. It is a point for you for these days though.

They hate not only the Jews for Palestine but also hate the U.N. and the U.S. for supporting the Jews and promoting the idea of the Jewish homeland even to this day.
As you have known, Islam came from Ishmael which is the first son born to Abraham but was shunned afterwards along with his mother, Hagar who is a Sarah's slave. Maybe the fact that Isaac and Ishmael does not have a great relation between each other passed down to their descendants (just my idea ). Anyway, the major reason why Muslim hates the Jews is because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which fought over the land.

I'm still learning regarding the historical foundation of Byzantine and the fall of Constantinople so pardon me if there's some mistakes on the facts.
Divisions in both Christianity and Islam is rampant. Christianity has, what, more than 3,000 denominations and Islam something like 70 odd denominations.

Beliefs are all over the place and if either ideology was worthy, that would likely not have happened.

Both religions toy themselves as religions of peace and love, while both promote hate and war.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL