The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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roydop
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by roydop »

Age wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:25 am
roydop wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:40 pm
Age wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:56 am

Transcending thought is very easy and very simple indeed. That is; once you learn and KNOW how to do it.
There's a technique? It's easy? Do tell.
The technique is just simply having a serious want to change, for the better, and just being truly honest about doing this. This leads to an Openness, of knowing.

Transcending thought, or transcending 'thinking', is just arriving at 'Knowing'. Knowing is truly liberating as it is freeing. Thought or thinking or always wondering, whereas knowing is final, and thus freeing.
No mention of stillness or timelessness or shifting of awareness, is telling. Sounds like you still have Self to realize. Transcending thought = awareness of Self (stillness) which = no thought.
roydop
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by roydop »

HexHammer wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:17 am Complete retarded nonsense and babble!

A problem doesn't go away just because you ignore it and doesn't think it's a problem, that's why everything sucks in highly buddhistic countries, bad infrastructure, bad economy, bad every fucking thing!

Only zero rationale people would think it's a good idea.
Does a problem exist when the thought of it is not manifest?

If the thought of that problem did not arise, would that problem exist?

Mind is what creates problems and then tries to fix what it broke in the first place. Digging holes and then filling them back in.
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HexHammer
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by HexHammer »

roydop wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:02 pmDoes a problem exist when the thought of it is not manifest?

If the thought of that problem did not arise, would that problem exist?

Mind is what creates problems and then tries to fix what it broke in the first place. Digging holes and then filling them back in.
Forgive me for asking ..ever taken an IQ test and what is your job?
roydop
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by roydop »

I was given an I.Q. test by a Mensa dude. I'm in the 92nd percentile. Didn't make it into Mensa, which requires a 98 percentile score. :)

I work as a wildland firefighter.

Care to answer my questions?
Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age »

roydop wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:59 pm
Age wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:25 am
roydop wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:40 pm

There's a technique? It's easy? Do tell.
The technique is just simply having a serious want to change, for the better, and just being truly honest about doing this. This leads to an Openness, of knowing.

Transcending thought, or transcending 'thinking', is just arriving at 'Knowing'. Knowing is truly liberating as it is freeing. Thought or thinking or always wondering, whereas knowing is final, and thus freeing.
No mention of stillness or timelessness or shifting of awareness, is telling.
There was no need to, as the word 'Knowing' = stillness, timelessness, and Awareness. If you 'Know' some thing, then there lays Awareness, in all of Its stillnessness and timelessness. If you 'Know' things, then obviously the thinking, or thought, STOPS.
roydop wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:59 pm Sounds like you still have Self to realize.
I may not have acknowledged the realized Self here, in this post, but I have elsewhere.

Sounds like you are inferring you realize Thy Self. Have you arrived at the conclusive Answer to, and thus 'Know', Thy Self? If yes, then what is thee Answer?
roydop wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:59 pmTranscending thought = awareness of Self (stillness) which = no thought.
All of this translates to 'Knowing'.

Obviously 'Knowing' = no thought.

'Thought' is wondering, 'thinking' can be confusion, whereas 'Knowing' speaks for itself. 'Knowing' is resting in contentment.

By the way, you never asked about what the outcome would be, you just asked for the 'technique', of which I provided. If you wanted to discuss the outcome or Answer, then we could have done that as well. Now who or what is thee Self, which you realized?
roydop
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by roydop »

No need to carry on this conversation. You clarified nicely.
surreptitious57
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Thought is wondering thinking can be confusion
Thinking can indeed be confusion but one can try not to hold onto any thoughts that one has too strongly because they may not be true
Unless something can be demonstrated to be true it should not be regarded as being so but just treated as a thought and nothing else
I do not hold on too strongly to the thoughts I have any more because they are just opinions and so are placeholders rather than facts
I do not think that it is possible to avoid having them if one is compos mentis but they come and go so should not be seen as absolute
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by surreptitious57 »

Dontaskme wrote:
The beauty of life is that we can have different opinions and look at the world differently
No one has a monopoly on wisdom and so if one is open minded one can learn from those who think differently to them
To simply know how others think can be beneficial in and of itself even if one cannot actually learn anything from them
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Dontaskme
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Dontaskme »

roydop wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:38 pm

I work as a wildland firefighter.

Hi roydop.

Have you watched that film on Netflix called '' Fire in Paradise '' ?

It's a documentary based on a true story that happened in a town called 'paradise' California in 2018, last year.

The town was razed to the ground, and many people died. The actual footage of people trying to flee through the forests on fire was terrifying.

Anyway, you guys do a great job, so thanks.

.
Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age »

roydop wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:50 am No need to carry on this conversation. You clarified nicely.
Thank you for the feedback. But I am still curious as to who and/or what you consider/found/realized is thee Self.
Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:00 am
Age wrote:
Thought is wondering thinking can be confusion
Thinking can indeed be confusion but one can try not to hold onto any thoughts that one has too strongly because they may not be true
But that is the point between 'thought/thinking' and 'know/knowing'. There is NO need to hold onto ANY thought, because ALL thought is NOT necessarily true. So, there is NO reason to even 'try to' hold onto any one of them. The point of Knowing is there is absolutely NO doubt about It being any thing other than True, Right, and Correct.
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:00 amUnless something can be demonstrated to be true it should not be regarded as being so but just treated as a thought and nothing else.
But that is all a 'thought' literally IS. A 'thought' is literally just what is 'thought to be true'. And, 'thinking 'you', (any one,) know some thing' is a hell of lot different from just plain old actually 'knowing some thing to be true.
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:00 amI do not hold on too strongly to the thoughts I have any more because they are just opinions and so are placeholders rather than facts
I class ALL thoughts, within this body, as just views, which have come about from, and because of, the previous things that this body has experienced, ALL of which could be just WRONG, or partly wrong. Knowing, however, is some thing completely different.
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:00 amI do not think that it is possible to avoid having them if one is compos mentis but they come and go so should not be seen as absolute
I have been, for the last few years, practising to not have, or avoid, thoughts. I have progressed this to about three to four seconds at the most. Once I learned to recognize and notice the thoughts, which arise within this body, to then stop thinking altogether I also think is near impossible.

To me, 'thoughts' are just, because of past experiences. Thoughts, to me, are NEVER absolutes. No body has literally never experienced an absolute perfect, nor true and right life. Therefore, EVERY thought could be imperfect, wrong and/or false.

EVERY thought that arises is absolutely perfect, in the sense that it arises because of what that body has experienced, and because the Universe is in perfect sync to Create what It will. But is NOT absolute as EVERY thought could be completely wrong and/or false.

The internal 'Knowing' is Absolute. Distinguishing between that 'Knowing' and the 'thinking' is some thing that will help speed up the process of what is in Creation anyway, and what we ALL Truly want and desire also.
Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:43 am
Dontaskme wrote:
The beauty of life is that we can have different opinions and look at the world differently
No one has a monopoly on wisdom and so if one is open minded one can learn from those who think differently to them
When one is Truly OPEN, then they can not NOT learn.
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:43 amTo simply know how others think can be beneficial in and of itself even if one cannot actually learn anything from them
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Dontaskme
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Dontaskme »

There is nothing to know, nothing to learn.

There is only the here and now. There are no answers to life.

All that you know is what you've read or heard.

This is the peace that passes all understanding, everything is resolved without saying a word.

This is the truth that the world doesn't want you to know.

Life is a catch 22 ..an unknown life evolves into an unknown death just as death evolves into a life unknown.

The known knows nothing and nothing knows, is known.

.
surreptitious57
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
I have been for the last few years practising to not have or avoid thoughts . I have progressed this to about three to four seconds
Once I learned to recognize and notice the thoughts which arise within this body to then stop thinking altogether I also think is near impossible
It would appear to be easier to just let thoughts come and down go of their own free will rather than suppress them completely
I have no real control over what comes into my mind but as I have said many times before I try not to hold onto them too much

I actually want thoughts in my mind in order to keep it active but at the same time I do not want them to control me
Most of the time I have no trouble in just letting them pass but some times there is blockage but it goes quite quickly
roydop
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by roydop »

I have been, for the last few years, practising to not have, or avoid, thoughts. I have progressed this to about three to four seconds at the most.
Within this consciousness (aka: "I") many minutes can pass without a single thought arising. An hour my pass with no more than a few words or phrases appearing, then disappearing. None of the thoughts that do arise have any power within my psyche.

Not bragging, just letting you know it is possible.

Spiritual practice is not something one does like going to the gym, it is a way of living. If you have 3 kids and 2 jobs and 2 hobbies and... then of course finding thought free awareness will be very difficult. My life was headed in that direction and then that dropped away and I dedicated my energy into stilling the mind.

The "secret" is find the stillness, the silence, that is the Source from which all thought and sensation arise. There's "something" here, within, underneath, that is going unnoticed because of all of the noise and flashing lights.
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