The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:55 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:48 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
So a you that can not be any where ... can then just come to exist from this no where
You were simply existing in a different form before you then became what you are now or rather were at the point of conception
Everything is in a permanent state of transformation so nothing is ever the same forever because that state is simply not possible
I agree. And yet it seems we try to grab hold of what is forever changing, in favor of something more solid and unchanging and actually real, it's a comfort to cling onto such an idea, when it is obviously not the reality of it at all, as we are constantly changing from moment to moment, so there is nowhere solid to cling to.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:48 pm
The potential you always existed before you were conceived and the actual you will carry on existing till you die and then that you will then be
transformed into something else and so on and so on ad infinitum - for in a very real sense you never truly die but merely exist in another state
Existence has but two fundamental attributes - eternity and change - and you are merely an infinitesimal part of that just like everything else is
Or you could say you are the changless changing, the whole enchilada. There's just no point indulging in religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate when there is so much change happening moment to moment, nothing stays the same, and nothing is permanent. The only reason humans indulge in competitive behaviour is to stave of the boredom of their void self. It's just a vain attempt to constantly fill it up, in order to make them feel as if they are something, because the alternative is just too depressing.

People just won't admit this to themselves, and prefer to live in their own mind made delusions, as it's the only thing they've got to cling to that gives them some kind of comfort, not to mention all the other things they use as a crutch, like all human addictions,there use is for nothing other than comfort and pleasure for their own entertainment, and it's like fuck the planet that actually sustains them.

And then there's the insane ideas that my god is better than your god blah blah blah...when in truth the one saying this doesn't even exist. No cat or dog ever compared or debated their gods.

So why do humans do it?


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Skepdick
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Skepdick » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:32 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:55 am
I agree. And yet it seems we try to grab hold of what is forever changing, in favor of something more solid and unchanging and actually real, it's a comfort to cling onto such an idea, when it is obviously not the reality of it at all, as we are constantly changing from moment to moment, so there is nowhere solid to cling to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7FxWHd_vsk

Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:56 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:54 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:12 pm

And that was my point. Earth's and the sun's period of existence is relatively nothing in the scheme of things. So, to assume that ALL life will be gone from the Universe just because the sun, which is just one star out of literally countless stars, has expanded into a red giant seems to be a bit of a narrow perspective of things to me.
Huh!

I never mentioned the ''Universe'' did I ?
If I recall correctly, no.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:54 pm
...so I'm not assuming ALL life am I ? ...
I am not sure, but you did say, "vaporizing the earth and all life and knowledge learnt will be gone."
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:54 pm
Why do you think I would assume what I cannot possibly know?
Because of the actual words you used.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:54 pm
Why did you assume I was talking about the universe when I never even mentioned the universe?
But I NEVER assumed any such thing. I was just going off of your words, which were; "all life and knowledge learnt will be gone".
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:54 pm
I was talking about all the species colonising the earth will evaporate along with the planet itself. I have not got a clue what is living beyond the biosphere of this earth planet.
Okay. So when you said "all life" you were not meaning 'all life', but just 'all the life on earth only', is this correct?
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:54 pm
While it is possible that other life forms may exist elsewhere in the universe, we so far to date, in our present evolution of human knowledge have no accessible means of observing those life forms to know them intimately in so far as being able to experiencially know what they would look like, except as imagined. So yeah, sorry to say this but human beings currently have only a very narrow observation window as to what they can see and know to currently exist in realtime.

.
Okay.

Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:48 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:15 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
where were you before you were you?
Age wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:12 pm
Obviously a 'you' can not be any where before it comes to exist.
So a 'you' that can not be any where ...can then just come to exist from this no where ?
In a sense, yes, but, in another sense, no.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:15 pm
Wow, that makes perfect absurd sense, thanks for that knowledge, it explains everything now. I always wondered how a 'you' can not be any where and yet a 'you' can come to exist,
This can be very easily and very simply explained how.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:15 pm
even though this 'you' that has come to exist now, was not any where existing before now
But I NEVER said any thing like a 'you' was "not any where existing before now".

If you REALLY want to KNOW what I am actually saying and meaning, then I suggest asking for clarity BEFORE assuming I am saying some thing, which, by the way, obviously is NOT the same as the actual words that I have used.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:15 pm
...wow, the wonders of wonders...is there a non-existing 'you' that suddenly transforms into an existing 'you' ....is that what you are saying?
In a sense yes. There was a non-existing 'you', which has come to exist, but NOT in a "sudden transformation".
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:15 pm
and how does that happen?

.
Firstly thanks for the clarifying questions.

A 'you' comes to exist, and then is continually transforming, through, and because of, the physical human body, which is exactly where the 'you' exists.

I NEVER said nor meant there is a "sudden transformation" from the non-existing 'you' to the existing 'you'.

Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:52 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:45 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:12 pm

KNOW Thy Self, then the Answers to your questions here will also be KNOWN, and UNDERSTOOD fully.
To know thyself can only mean to know you don't know self.
Is that the ONLY thing that it can mean?
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:45 pm
If you do know thy self then you must have created that self you know...is that right, did you create yourself?

.
In a sense, yes.

But you would have to KNOW the difference between the 'you' and thee 'I' to understand this fully.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:43 pm

Huh!

I never mentioned the ''Universe'' did I ?
Age wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:56 am
If I recall correctly, no.
Dontaskme wrote:
...so I'm not assuming ALL life am I ? ...
Age wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:56 am
I am not sure, but you did say, "vaporizing the earth and all life and knowledge learnt will be gone."
From the earth all life will be gone. If I'd have wanted to include the rest of the universe I would have stated that, but I didn't did I ? because I have no idea if there is life beyond earthly life. That you seem to think there is is only pure conjecture anyway.
Dontaskme wrote:
Why do you think I would assume what I cannot possibly know?
Age wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:56 am
Because of the actual words you used.
Which were in relation to the earth's life, not the rest of the universe. If I meant all life in the universe would be gone I would have said that, but I did not say that did I ? ...gosh, this is not difficult.
Dontaskme wrote:
Why did you assume I was talking about the universe when I never even mentioned the universe?
Age wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:56 am
But I NEVER assumed any such thing. I was just going off of your words, which were; "all life and knowledge learnt will be gone".
But my words were pretty obvious that all life on the earth would be gone, my words were in relation to the earth, you know, that earth word, not the universe word...in that all life as we know it on earth will be gone. I never mentioned the rest of the universe. That was your extention assumed not mine.. your mind extended into thinking that what I said to meant the whole universe, this is what you thought was what I meant when I clearly did not. IS THAT CLEAR to you NOW ?

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Dontaskme
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:55 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:52 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:45 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:12 pm

KNOW Thy Self, then the Answers to your questions here will also be KNOWN, and UNDERSTOOD fully.
To know thyself can only mean to know you don't know self.
Is that the ONLY thing that it can mean?
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:45 pm
If you do know thy self then you must have created that self you know...is that right, did you create yourself?

.
In a sense, yes.

But you would have to KNOW the difference between the 'you' and thee 'I' to understand this fully.

You are aware of the idea of you. But you already had to exist prior to being able to be aware of the idea of you, and so the awareness of the idea of you cannot be you, for awareness cannot be anything other than awareness of itself. There is only one of you which is no other than just you self creating yourself as awareness is being aware it is aware.

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roydop
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by roydop » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:20 pm

Not only is the entire realm of thought manufactured/illusory, but also the entire physical realm.

Good luck transcending the thought realm, let alone the physical realm.

Although the physical realm is about to conclude, so if one can indeed transcend thought there could be liberation.

Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:56 am

roydop wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:20 pm
Not only is the entire realm of thought manufactured/illusory, but also the entire physical realm.

Good luck transcending the thought realm, let alone the physical realm.

Although the physical realm is about to conclude, so if one can indeed transcend thought there could be liberation.
Transcending thought is very easy and very simple indeed. That is; once you learn and KNOW how to do it.

roydop
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by roydop » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:40 pm

Age wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:56 am
roydop wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:20 pm
Not only is the entire realm of thought manufactured/illusory, but also the entire physical realm.

Good luck transcending the thought realm, let alone the physical realm.

Although the physical realm is about to conclude, so if one can indeed transcend thought there could be liberation.
Transcending thought is very easy and very simple indeed. That is; once you learn and KNOW how to do it.
There's a technique? It's easy? Do tell.

Age
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Age » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:25 am

roydop wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:40 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:56 am
roydop wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:20 pm
Not only is the entire realm of thought manufactured/illusory, but also the entire physical realm.

Good luck transcending the thought realm, let alone the physical realm.

Although the physical realm is about to conclude, so if one can indeed transcend thought there could be liberation.
Transcending thought is very easy and very simple indeed. That is; once you learn and KNOW how to do it.
There's a technique? It's easy? Do tell.
The technique is just simply having a serious want to change, for the better, and just being truly honest about doing this. This leads to an Openness, of knowing.

Transcending thought, or transcending 'thinking', is just arriving at 'Knowing'. Knowing is truly liberating as it is freeing. Thought or thinking or always wondering, whereas knowing is final, and thus freeing.

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HexHammer
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by HexHammer » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:17 am

Complete retarded nonsense and babble!

A problem doesn't go away just because you ignore it and doesn't think it's a problem, that's why everything sucks in highly buddhistic countries, bad infrastructure, bad economy, bad every fucking thing!

Only zero rationale people would think it's a good idea.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:12 am

HexHammer wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:17 am
Complete retarded nonsense and babble!

A problem doesn't go away just because you ignore it and doesn't think it's a problem, that's why everything sucks in highly buddhistic countries, bad infrastructure, bad economy, bad every fucking thing!

Only zero rationale people would think it's a good idea.
Arguing about Gods and Demons and promises of eternity in Heaven or Hell using intellect and logic is a problem where there isn't one. But human minds cannot live without their religious ideas, so this is a problem that stays. Even when these problems are resolved somehow, the human mind will just invent another problem to argue over. The human mind has created the duality in their reality, so their mental problems are all self inflicted. They seed their minds with knowledge they believe is REAL and then reap what they sow. They are the only creature on earth that has to live with their own self inflicted illusory self indulgence formed of their imaginary intolerance, self-righteous self bias, racial and ethical prejudices. It's an isolation that causes many people to defend their imaginary Gods rather than realise that every human being is just like themself, and that we are all humans beings alike. We need to look at that and ask ourselves why would we want to cause harm to another human being. We wouldn't want to harm our own being, and yet we think it is ok to harm another being. This is the sickness and the problem of the human mind.

Life in general is really not a problem for normal rational people. If there's a toothache we go to the dentist, problem solved, if there's a broken leg, we go to the hospital,problem solved, if there's a hunger in the belly, we eat...problem solved.

However, as soon as we start debating subjective ideas like what is God, what does God do, what does God look like, what is God's plan for humanity and all that made-up stuff that man likes to entertain his thoughts with. That can become a problem, one that is not going to go away, obviously causing self evident problematic issues when our personal Gods don't match up.

On the other hand, real problems like > actual human tangible experiences we don't ususally ignore, we have no choice but to act.
We have no control to ignore a toothache, but we do have the control to ignore other peoples God ideas.
That's all I'm trying to point out. It was man that put the idea of God into his mind. It was identification with the concept of man that then believed the conceptual man was the thinker and the doer and the knower...however, the human concept is KNOWN, and the 'KNOWN' know nothing. ...and that's the problem that the human mind will always ignore, it cannot identify with NOTHING.

So it swings with it's own man-made concepts and mistakes those constructions to be actual reality, it's at war with itself, and yet there is peace there too, mentally constructed problems create a film over the peace that lies beneath, it's just a matter of peeling back the dross that is the surface mind to reveal the true self that lies beneath.
But we prefer to surf the surface drama of the mind rather than delve into the deeper peace of our true beings, so be it.



.

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HexHammer
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by HexHammer » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:45 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:12 am
Arguing about Gods and Demons and promises of eternity in Heaven or Hell using intellect and logic is a problem where there isn't one. But human minds cannot live without their religious ideas, so this is a problem that stays. Even when these problems are resolved somehow, the human mind will just invent another problem to argue over. The human mind has created the duality in their reality, so their mental problems are all self inflicted. They seed their minds with knowledge they believe is REAL and then reap what they sow. They are the only creature on earth that has to live with their own self inflicted illusory self indulgence formed of their imaginary intolerance, self-righteous self bias, racial and ethical prejudices. It's an isolation that causes many people to defend their imaginary Gods rather than realise that every human being is just like themself, and that we are all humans beings alike. We need to look at that and ask ourselves why would we want to cause harm to another human being. We wouldn't want to harm our own being, and yet we think it is ok to harm another being. This is the sickness and the problem of the human mind.

...yadda yadda ..bla bla ....bla...........
8/10 for effort, 0/10 for rationale.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The problem with religious critique, logic, reasons, truth-seeking, argumentation, and debate.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:23 am

HexHammer wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:45 am
8/10 for effort, 0/10 for rationale.
The beauty of life is that we can have different opinions and look at the world differently,that actually tends to get real ugly real quick.
HexHammer wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:45 am

...yadda yadda ..bla bla ....bla...........
Language doesn't reach that which is beyond concepts and their symblols. Don't confuse language and the ideas it represents for what is Real.

I am unapologetically my own free thinking self which is the true basis of authenticity. I am living as sovereign individual who is freely thinking rather than blindly believing. I am the seer. Everyone is the I AM from their own unique lens of perception. We just have to remember to remove the artifically contructed filters that blind.

.

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