The Subconscious Fear of Death - the Root of Theism

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Subconscious Fear of Death - the Root of Theism

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:36 am

Age wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:56 am
To me, killing non-believers, in the koran, is NOT an evil nor violent act.
Your moral compass is gone.
The killing of any human being is immoral.
If there is any exception it has to be justified ethically upon various circumstances.
If any exception, it cannot be a rule but must be avoided in the future.
The ideology of islam is to be peaceful, and to be a muslim is just to be a follower of, or be led by, peace. The command in the koran to 'war' against those who are non-muslim, or non-followers of peace, is to 'kill' those who do not follow peace. To 'kill' is to just kill of the 'person' who does not follow peace, which is a completely non violent and non evil act. This just involves helping these people to change, for the better.
Have you read the 6236 verses of the Quran?
I don't believe you have done so!

With reference to the severity of the issue, the above is very stupid, i.e. stupid in jumping to conclusion without reading the Quran properly.

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henry quirk
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Re: Age

Post by henry quirk » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:48 am

"You have obviously absolutely misinterpreted and misunderstood ME completely."

Okay. My apologies.

#

"I Truly understand EVERY one, and what it is that we ALL Truly agree with"

Bold claim. Tell me: what you understand about me, and what we -- you and me -- agree on.

Age
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Re: The Subconscious Fear of Death - the Root of Theism

Post by Age » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:28 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:36 am
Age wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:56 am
To me, killing non-believers, in the koran, is NOT an evil nor violent act.
Your moral compass is gone.
Your ASSUMING is continuing,
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:36 am
The killing of any human being is immoral.
And your ASSUMING is just plain WRONG.

As I keep telling 'you', "veritas aequitas", you have absolutely NO idea what I am talking about. This is because you are NOT hearing an actual word I am saying. You do NOT hear because you are NOT listening. All you are doing is ASSUMING, which is BLINDING you to the actual Truth of things here. You STILL have NO clue what I am talking about.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:36 am
If there is any exception it has to be justified ethically upon various circumstances.
There is NO exception at all. The killing of people, in relation to the koran, involves NO act of evil NOR violence at all. But you would have to FULLY understand who and what 'people' are first. you can not get there because you are STUCK in your OWN pre-existing ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS. you are NOT, at the moment, capable of LOOKING AT and SEEING things from the OPEN perspective. Therefore you will just keep making ASSUMPTIONS and being WRONG.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:36 am
If any exception, it cannot be a rule but must be avoided in the future.
So 'off the mark' this is laughable.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:36 am
The ideology of islam is to be peaceful, and to be a muslim is just to be a follower of, or be led by, peace. The command in the koran to 'war' against those who are non-muslim, or non-followers of peace, is to 'kill' those who do not follow peace. To 'kill' is to just kill of the 'person' who does not follow peace, which is a completely non violent and non evil act. This just involves helping these people to change, for the better.
Have you read the 6236 verses of the Quran?
It does NOT matter. The 'ideology' of islam is up for question. Misinterpreting one letter, in one word, in one sentence, in one verse, can detract from what the intended and actual meaning and purpose of what the whole book is about.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:36 am
I don't believe you have done so!
It does NOT matter what you BELIEVE. The actual Truth of things will ALWAYS override what 'you', human beings, BELIEVE is true anyway.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:36 am
With reference to the severity of the issue, the above is very stupid, i.e. stupid in jumping to conclusion without reading the Quran properly.
Maybe I read things far more PROPERLY, than you every have?

Thee Answer to this we have to WAIT and SEE.

You have SHOWN you are completely incapable of READING, and SEEING, PROPERLY the very few words that I write here in this forum. You can not even read what I write without continually misinterpreting it. The very reason you misinterpret what I write and get it so WRONG, so OFTEN, I have ALREADY EXPLAINED. BUT you can not even read and understand that PROPERLY.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Subconscious Fear of Death - the Root of Theism

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:42 am

Age wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:28 am
As I keep telling 'you', "veritas aequitas", you have absolutely NO idea what I am talking about. This is because you are NOT hearing an actual word I am saying. You do NOT hear because you are NOT listening. All you are doing is ASSUMING, which is BLINDING you to the actual Truth of things here. You STILL have NO clue what I am talking about.
..
That is no different from a schizophrenic who keep insisting the gnomes who talk with him are real and when opposed, insist others have absolute NO idea what he is talking about.

Point is you have never been able to justify what you are trying to talk about.
If you ever do, it would be no different from what the schizo above is insisting.

I suggest you take a sample of your postings and check with a psychiatrists.

Other than that, take a course on how to communicate and convince others your propositions are justified.

Age
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Re: The Subconscious Fear of Death - the Root of Theism

Post by Age » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:01 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:42 am
Age wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:28 am
As I keep telling 'you', "veritas aequitas", you have absolutely NO idea what I am talking about. This is because you are NOT hearing an actual word I am saying. You do NOT hear because you are NOT listening. All you are doing is ASSUMING, which is BLINDING you to the actual Truth of things here. You STILL have NO clue what I am talking about.
..
That is no different from a schizophrenic who keep insisting the gnomes who talk with him are real and when opposed, insist others have absolute NO idea what he is talking about.
Point is you have never been able to justify what you are trying to talk about.
So you even agree with me.

That is; you have NO idea what I am even "trying to" talk about.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:42 am
If you ever do, it would be no different from what the schizo above is insisting.

I suggest you take a sample of your postings and check with a psychiatrists.

Other than that, take a course on how to communicate and convince others your propositions are justified.
If you ever do get to understand what I am, "trying to", talk about, then you SEE what I have been saying is ALREADY justified.

Age
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Re: Age

Post by Age » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:46 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:48 am
"You have obviously absolutely misinterpreted and misunderstood ME completely."

Okay. My apologies.

You do not have to apologize. I understand completely why you have.

#

"I Truly understand EVERY one, and what it is that we ALL Truly agree with"

Bold claim. Tell me: what you understand about me, and what we -- you and me -- agree on.
What I understand about 'you' is who and what 'you' Truly are. How 'you' came to be, and other relative things like where 'you' exist, when 'you' came to exist and how long 'you' will be existing for, and why 'you' exist. I also understand how and why the 'you', which is thought to be 'you', is not the real Self.

What we agree one is that we both once wanted to just be happy and live in peace and harmony with every one. We agree that the human body needs nutrients, air, and water, which are all clean enough for our continued survival. Unless of course you can show and prove otherwise.

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henry quirk
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Age

Post by henry quirk » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:41 pm

"What I understand about 'you' is who and what 'you' Truly are. How 'you' came to be, and other relative things like where 'you' exist, when 'you' came to exist and how long 'you' will be existing for, and why 'you' exist. I also understand how and why the 'you', which is thought to be 'you', is not the real Self."

You need to dazzle me with detail, cuz, right now, you ain't sayin' nuthin'

#

"What we agree one is that we both once wanted to just be happy and live in peace and harmony with every one."

Nope. In my 57 years not once have I ever wanted to 'just be happy and live in peace and harmony with every one'.

#

"We agree that the human body needs nutrients, air, and water, which are all clean enough for our continued survival."

Not a particularly remarkable observation, Age.

#

"Unless of course you can show and prove otherwise."

The burden of showing and proving is on you. I made no claim of 'Truly understand(ing) EVERY one, and what it is that we ALL Truly agree with', you did. So far, the best you've done so far is state the obvious (we all gotta eat and drink).

Age
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Re: Age

Post by Age » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:01 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:41 pm
"What I understand about 'you' is who and what 'you' Truly are. How 'you' came to be, and other relative things like where 'you' exist, when 'you' came to exist and how long 'you' will be existing for, and why 'you' exist. I also understand how and why the 'you', which is thought to be 'you', is not the real Self."

You need to dazzle me with detail, cuz, right now, you ain't sayin' nuthin'

But WHY do I 'need' to dazzle 'you' with detail?

#

"What we agree one is that we both once wanted to just be happy and live in peace and harmony with every one."

Nope. In my 57 years not once have I ever wanted to 'just be happy and live in peace and harmony with every one'.

If this is True, then in relation to this you have just proven me WRONG.

So tell us, if you know, WHY, as a very young child, you did not want to be happy, and you did not want to live in peace and harmony with "others"?

Did you always want to be unhappy and always wanted to live disagreeing, warring, and/or in opposition with "others"?

#

"We agree that the human body needs nutrients, air, and water, which are all clean enough for our continued survival."

Not a particularly remarkable observation, Age.

Truth and Understanding was NEVER said to be remarkable. Even I have been reminding 'you', people, that thee Truth is in fact a very simple and very easy thing to SEE and UNDERSTAND.

#

"Unless of course you can show and prove otherwise."

The burden of showing and proving is on you. I made no claim of 'Truly understand(ing) EVERY one, and what it is that we ALL Truly agree with', you did. So far, the best you've done so far is state the obvious (we all gotta eat and drink).
So even you are agreeing that you KNOW what EVERY one could agree with, correct?

What IS OBVIOUS is thee Truth of things. Whereas, it could be argued, every thing else are just different or wrong interpretations of thee Truth.

Scott Mayers
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Re: The Subconscious Fear of Death - the Root of Theism

Post by Scott Mayers » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:47 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:43 am
Scott Mayers wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:19 pm
The OP is partly correct. The 'fear' if anything, is about ANY suffering. We don't 'know' death from being within it except as second-hand experience of losing those we knew personally who have died. The 'fear' is not necessarily of death but of suffering. This is what the suicidal person is opting to rid themselves of ....their suffering.
Note my edited argument;
P1 To ensure one survive with the will-to-live one has avoid death.
P2 To avoid death, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously].
C3 Therefore to survive with the will-to-live, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously].
  • P1. To survive with the will-to-live, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously]. C3 above
    P2. To fear and avoid death, all human are programmed with pain circuits.
    P3. The pain circuits generate a feeling of sufferings.
From the above, to fear and avoid death preceded sufferings.
So fear is of death, that give rise to sufferings.
To avoid sufferings, the theists cling to a God [illusory] who promises escape from permanent death to eternal life.
This promise of eternal life immediately relieves them of sufferings [Angst].

A person who committed suicide did not do it due to sufferings but rather his will-to-live was weakened due to mental issues with the neural circuit. Thus the person has lost his will-to-live and to counter the sufferings like the majority.

All human actions are reducible to 3 basic grounds in the following order and priority;
  • 1. Subliminal fear of death in the subconscious mind - note, not conscious mind.
    2. The drive to procreate and produce the next generation
    3. The drive for morality and wisdom [philosophy-proper].
Check whether any of your other proposals can bypass the above?
We do not automatically 'fear'. Take a newborn,...say of any species....and they will NOT affiliate fear with their prey because they have to learn what it means by how it makes them FEEL while being alive. They learn sensations indirectly by a 'program' that assigns an environmental factor. Thus, a newborn duck, will only have a default mechanism that attends towards anything that moves initially. This window of development closes after a time and aligns them to whatever they followed as a 'feeling' of comfort unless and until they encounter competing learned values that confuse them. Pain, for instance, might begin only as a reaction without valuation. A flip of the coin could define what 'feels' good as 'bad' and vice versa. If the development period closes with an assignment that doesn't "fit" to the environment, ....like a duckling that might follow some cub lion before the lion learns it is food, could assign the cub as its 'mother'. If the cub later brings the duck home, its family will most likely address the issue by killing the duckling. The duckling (and maybe the cub too) wouldn't know anything was 'unfit' about their affiliation but would learn. Unfortunately for the duckling, it might already know pain and would thus not approve of what occurs as it is being killed; but so may the cub 'feel' sad as its own members initially tear his pet apart. That cub might then relearn the value of ducklings as food and find more comfort in it than the pain of feeling its loss of a toy. If not, that cub too might not survive for refusing to eat by a faulty assignment.

We LEARN emotive factors but have an evolved functon that assigns them based upon living. The 'fears' associated are not about death but about the particular emotive factors of discomfort.

We also don't CHOOSE to live. Rather, we fear the unknown or uncertainty. One who is 'mentally ill' may opt to kill themselves AGAINST their default to live. But 'will-power' is not appropriately something we selected prior to being alive (as far as we could tell). So it is fear of suffering rooted in many factors that include "uncertainty" about how to act that makes one potentially kill themselves. There is also likely a loss of ANY will that most animals can have that contributes but would be more rare. The psychopath might be one who lacks empathy for nor against a will of some sort that, like one born with leprocy, may not 'feel' and thus could harm themselves or others without having evaluation of the meaning of some acts.

Fear of death is an evolved factor that lacks certainty since you'd have to actually die to KNOW with certainty whether it will be favorable or not. The religious ideals are likely the fact that we get assigned 'feelings' at all. How can we have pleasure or pain, happiness or sadness, or any binary evaluation without some UNCERTAIN factor about life that confuses us? Fear of what the 'fear' is itself is a kind of feedback problem that occurs that confuses us, just as infinity does should you attempt to think you should reach some satisfactory end to the task of counting to it does. I still remember my first thoughts of this when I was a kid attempting to count sheep ....something that didn't work for me then.

I like Dan Dennett's interpretation on this similar point. He writes that religion is about an error in thinking that you need faith in 'faith' itself. This to him is the major problem and something that I agree with. [I think it was his "Breaking the Spell" book that focused on this point.] We are begged to be 'positive' about life regardless of the actual realities. We are told by successive people that we lack success because we don't believe in something strong enough. Disney movies even do this to the worst degree, even where it may not directly seem 'religious' by even non-religious people. I too have experienced this presumptious irrational belief.

Religion evolves due to the conflicts of resolving certain paradoxes. The happy-successful people who might be what they are merely due to luck alone could lack a foundational justification for why they should not give up what they have to others they see suffering. As such, the crisis may be overcome if they simply assert that they got what they wanted for wanting it bad enough.!!??? This irrational thinking is a coincidence afterthefact. But it turns into a religious conviction if you require some means to justify your fortune in defiance of others failures.

Likewise, if you suffer by default regardless of how hard you try, this can be due to sincere bias against you by the environment. (think if you were born with Elephantitus for instance.) Others around you might entice you to not give up hope. This 'hoping' cannot be maintained in light of a lot of continued failure without some hope in the act of hoping itself.

The feedback mechanisms that confuse us but sustain us wihout closure is on its own a survival mechanism to which religious ideologies can help to empower us in some way. They are actually derivable from reality but devolve into an irrationality that becomes 'religion' when it becomes a system of thoughts that get passed on in time. The origins of the collection of complex ideas and thoughts that form some particular religion likely came from many secular realities that have been lost due to changes in the way we no longer live or speak with words of changed meanings.

An 'ark' of the 'covenant' most likely was a devolution of this reality for instance: Stones collected from Akenaten's relocated city that had public obelisks that presented laws of public conduct (commandments) that were 'saved' by the destruction of his removed city in the dessert. It was likely transported originally on a boat from the Nile through canals to the last known resting vestige of its dying empire at Jerusalem (Je-ra-salem) [? "I see salvation" or a place where "One sees salvation"]. The temple holy of holies would have been good to hide it from the people as it would prove that the true origins of Judaism as being of the Egyptian Sun-king who was thought of as an arch anti-hero in its day.

That is just an example of how a possible reality would devolve into myth.....itself not something later followers would like to discover as 'true'. But in its elementary source, I think it is the contradictions of everyday realtiy that lead to religion. Fear of death would be a more complex justification derivable by fear of reality......a fear of LIFE, ....not actually death.

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henry quirk
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Re: Age

Post by henry quirk » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:05 pm

"But WHY do I 'need' to dazzle 'you' with detail?"

If you wanna convince me 'you understand about who and what 'I' Truly am. How 'I' came to be, and other relative things like where 'I' exist, when 'I' came to exist and how long 'I' will be existing for, and why 'I' exist, and why 'I', etc.' then pony up the details. If you don't wanna, then don't (and leave off with the extravagant claims as well).'

Age
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Re: Age

Post by Age » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:03 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:05 pm
"But WHY do I 'need' to dazzle 'you' with detail?"

If you wanna convince me 'you understand about who and what 'I' Truly am. How 'I' came to be, and other relative things like where 'I' exist, when 'I' came to exist and how long 'I' will be existing for, and why 'I' exist, and why 'I', etc.' then pony up the details. If you don't wanna, then don't (and leave off with the extravagant claims as well).'
But as I have repeatedly said previously, I do NOT want to convince any one of any thing. I am NOT here to convince. I am here to learn, and for those that Truly want to learn. Therefore, I do NOT need to dazzle 'you' with detail.

By the way, I will claim whatever I choose to (even if you tell me not to).

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henry quirk
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Age

Post by henry quirk » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:52 am

Age wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:03 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:05 pm
"But WHY do I 'need' to dazzle 'you' with detail?"

If you wanna convince me 'you understand about who and what 'I' Truly am. How 'I' came to be, and other relative things like where 'I' exist, when 'I' came to exist and how long 'I' will be existing for, and why 'I' exist, and why 'I', etc.' then pony up the details. If you don't wanna, then don't (and leave off with the extravagant claims as well).'
But as I have repeatedly said previously, I do NOT want to convince any one of any thing. I am NOT here to convince. I am here to learn, and for those that Truly want to learn. Therefore, I do NOT need to dazzle 'you' with detail.

By the way, I will claim whatever I choose to (even if you tell me not to).
Okay.

Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: The Subconscious Fear of Death - the Root of Theism

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:36 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:47 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:43 am
Scott Mayers wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:19 pm
The OP is partly correct. The 'fear' if anything, is about ANY suffering. We don't 'know' death from being within it except as second-hand experience of losing those we knew personally who have died. The 'fear' is not necessarily of death but of suffering. This is what the suicidal person is opting to rid themselves of ....their suffering.
Note my edited argument;
P1 To ensure one survive with the will-to-live one has avoid death.
P2 To avoid death, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously].
C3 Therefore to survive with the will-to-live, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously].
  • P1. To survive with the will-to-live, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously]. C3 above
    P2. To fear and avoid death, all human are programmed with pain circuits.
    P3. The pain circuits generate a feeling of sufferings.
From the above, to fear and avoid death preceded sufferings.
So fear is of death, that give rise to sufferings.
To avoid sufferings, the theists cling to a God [illusory] who promises escape from permanent death to eternal life.
This promise of eternal life immediately relieves them of sufferings [Angst].

A person who committed suicide did not do it due to sufferings but rather his will-to-live was weakened due to mental issues with the neural circuit. Thus the person has lost his will-to-live and to counter the sufferings like the majority.

All human actions are reducible to 3 basic grounds in the following order and priority;
  • 1. Subliminal fear of death in the subconscious mind - note, not conscious mind.
    2. The drive to procreate and produce the next generation
    3. The drive for morality and wisdom [philosophy-proper].
Check whether any of your other proposals can bypass the above?
We do not automatically 'fear'. Take a newborn,...say of any species....and they will NOT affiliate fear with their prey because they have to learn what it means by how it makes them FEEL while being alive. They learn sensations indirectly by a 'program' that assigns an environmental factor. Thus, a newborn duck, will only have a default mechanism that attends towards anything that moves initially. This window of development closes after a time and aligns them to whatever they followed as a 'feeling' of comfort unless and until they encounter competing learned values that confuse them.
...
LEARN emotive factors but have an evolved functon that assigns them based upon living. The 'fears' associated are not about death but about the particular emotive factors of discomfort.
....

That is just an example of how a possible reality would devolve into myth.....itself not something later followers would like to discover as 'true'. But in its elementary source, I think it is the contradictions of everyday reality that lead to religion. Fear of death would be a more complex justification derivable by fear of reality......a fear of LIFE, ....not actually death.
Noted your post and the above are the critical points I want to highlight.

There are two main perspectives to the fear response, i.e.
  • 1. Fears not involving death and mortality
    2. Ordinary fears not related to 1
The above fears are processed via two neural pathways.
  • A. Conscious Mind
    B. Subconscious Mind
Thus, there are two paths from which fears are triggered as an emotional response consciously and subconsciously.

A. Conscious Mind
Note this neural mechanism of fear

Image

The Normal Route of the conscious mind - the one you described above

i. Ordinary fears - not death related;
The typical mechanism is shown above;
  • 1. Perception of threat [snake] by the visual organs
    2. Data are sent to thalamus
    3. Data from 2 sent to Visual cortex for processing, thus conscious.
    4. Data from 3 sent to Amygdala
    5. Amydala process data from 3 and triggered relevant reactions
    6. The conscious mind feel bodily reactions as fear.
ii. Fears related to Death;
  • 1. Perception of threat [death] by the visual organs
    1a. The knowledge of death are then sent to the intellectual organs.
    2. Data from 1 are sent to thalamus and elsewhere [?]
    3. Data from 2 sent to Visual cortex for processing, thus conscious.
    4. Data from 3 sent to Amygdala
    5. Amydala process data from 3 and triggered relevant reactions
    6. The conscious mind feel bodily reactions as fear.
    7. But the reaction in 6 is NATURALLY suppressed most of the time.
    8. The person is not conscious of the fear of death at all times
B. The Unconscious Mind - Normal Fear and Fear of Death
B1. The Short Cut - Amygdala Hijack

i. Ordinary fears - not death related;
  • 1. Perception of threat [snake] by the visual organs
    2. Data are sent to thalamus
    3. ............. [by passed]
    4. Data from 2 sent to Amygdala
    5. Amydala process data from 3 and triggered relevant reactions
    6. The conscious mind feel bodily reactions as fear.
    2.
Note the 'Quick and Dirty' signal in the image.
This is where process 3 is bypassed and perceived data are sent directly to the amygdala which triggered the bodily reactions as subconscious fears which becomes conscious and one can react accordingly to the snake.

ii. B2. Fears related to Death and Mortality
The fear of death is a special case.
  • 1. Perception of threat [snake] by the visual organs
    1a. The knowledge of death and mortality are then sent to the intellectual organs.
    2. Data are sent to thalamus and elsewhere [?]
    3. ............. [by passed]
    4. Data from 2 sent to Amygdala and elsewhere [?]
    5. Amydala [& deeper fear circuits] process data from 3 and triggered relevant reactions
    6. The conscious mind DO NOT feel these bodily reactions as fear because it is subconscious.
    7. The conscious mind is inhibited from being conscious of the fear of death permanently.
    8. But the terrible impulses of the above subconscious fear of death [1-5] exudes through various leakages via other pathways and manifest as terrible conscious mental pains and sufferings of unease, anxieties, despairs, Angst, etc.
The followings are the various ways people dealt with the terrible pains and sufferings;
  • 1. The Religious seek religions,
    2. The theists seek theism
    3. The secular desperadoes turned to drugs, pain-killers, etc.
    4. The secular spiritual minded seek non-theistic spiritual approaches
    5. Other secular seek other secular approaches to deal or suppress the pains and sufferings.
My point stays;
The Subconscious Fear of Death = the Root of Theism.

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