Islam do not Condone Killing of Non-Muslims?

[HereToDiscuss]

But you never supported it properly, making your premise based entirely on Ibn Kathir. You need to provide the verses instead of saying "Ibn Kathir says 'fasadan' includes disbelief."

There is no specific verse that stated 'disbelief' is a fasadan [threats to Muslims and Islam].

However in the context of the 6236 verses of the Quran disbelief [KFR - Kufr] is a fasadan [FSD] as represented by 3400++ verses that condemned the disbelievers.

I refer to Ibn Kathir [as a convenience] because he was a very reputable Islamic Scholar and reasonable credible in his interpretation of the Quran.

Here is a sample of the 100s of significant verses, i.e.;

• 2:120. And the Jews will not be pleased with thee [O Muhammad], nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed [MLL; millat -millatahum]. ...

At least quote the whole verse:

"And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper."
This basically means that you shouldn't follow their religion or else you will be helpless against Allah in heaven. That doesn't answer our question.

2:217. They [Muslims] question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say [O Muhammad]: Warfare therein [in the sacred month] is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel his people thence, is a greater [matter] with Allah; for persecution [fitnah - idolatory, non-believers threats ] is worse than killing. And they [the infidels -Quraysh] will not cease from fighting against you [Muslims] till they [infidels] have made you [Muslims] renegades from your religion [deenihi Islam], if they [the infidels] can...

Again, simplyfing it, this is basically "People are asking us about why we fight in the sacred months. That is a great transgression, but they are preventing us access to Al Masjid Al Haram, they are expulsing the people there and are averting people from way of Allah, so it is justified. And those infidels won't stop doing this and attacking you untill they make you like them, a kaffir."
Such a justification isn't limited to Islam. Remember the crusades for an example.

3:100. O ye [Muslims] who believe! If ye [Muslims] obey a party of those [Christians - infidels] who have received the Scripture they [infidels] will make you disbelievers [kuffar] after your belief.

I'm pretty sure you're trying quite hard to find the verves, since this is pretty much "If you listen to those pesky non-Muslims, they will make you a disbeliever." Not even relevant.

18:20. For they, if they [disbelievers] should come to know of you, will stone you or turn you back to their religion [millatihim]; then ye will never prosper.

You're quoting verses really out of context to make it seem like this about kaffirs as a whole or even kaffirs in Muhammad's time-it is not. This is about a spesific group of people that the previous verses talk about, but i won't quote them since it would end up being terribly long. But they're talking about a group of disbelievers who would either kill them or force them back into their religion. They definitely aren't the ones who will kill them as they are about 5 people. For more context, simply read the relevant verses.

7:1. Those [kafaru; disbelievers] who disbelieve and turn (men) from [SDD: ṣaddū] the way of Allah, He [Allah] rendereth their [infidels] actions vain [of no spiritual value that will please Allah].

Which is eternal damnation. And..?

58:16. They [disbelievers] make a shelter [cover, pretext] of their oaths and turn [FSD: faṣaddū: hinder] (men) [Muslims] from the way of Allah; so theirs [infidels] will be a shameful doom.

In the 18th verse, it becomes clear that this is an oath about being a Muslim even though they really aren't, so this one is about the Hypocrites. While the "shameful doom" could've referred to both killing and eternal damnation, the killing part wouldn't make sense because you do not know who is a Hypocrite, since they can swear to Allah about becoming a Muslim. Also, the 14th verse establishes that they can't be kaffirs:
"Have you not considered those who make allies of a people with whom Allah has become angry? They are neither of you nor of them, and they swear to untruth while they know [they are lying]."
This was probably an attempt by Muhammad to alleviate fears about such people amongst the Muslims.


Also, as for your question about my religion: I'm an atheist, but not a new one (or, to put it another way, i'm not a new atheist).

[HereToDiscuss]

Killing non-believers or non-muslims is NOT an evil nor violent act at all.

Now this will EXPOSE the ones who are OPEN from those who are CLOSED.

Well it's definitely a violent act?

Not necessarily so.

It certainly is NOT in context of Allah and islam.

It is though. Violence is "Behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something." Violence includes killing someone by definition.

Albeit i do not get what you're getting at here. Can you clarify?

[Eodnhoj7]

The bagadvatgita (not spelled right) observes when and when not violence is appropriate and how it can be a moral action within certain contexts.

Violence is not always evil.

As usual, you are off tangent again.
The OP is about the sanction by a God for the killing of non-Muslims merely because they disbelief in Islam. Is that an evil or not?

The Bhagavad-Gita do not condone any form of violence directly.
The fighting scenes involve close-kins in the early chapters are merely allegorical to the battles of one's internal forces of good over evil impulses.

And the same can be observed in the contexts you provided.

You are equating violence always as evil, and that is a fallacy.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I don't know why everyone is pandering to your mangled 'English'. Your thread title is gibberish, and why the capitals in the middle of a sentence? 'Islam' is singular, and is there any reason for the question mark? It doesn't even look like a question.

Well said, Veggie. We all know what a stickler you are for Received fucking English.

You're such a stupid little burk.


Dachshund

That title is fucking incomprehensible. You don't have to be a 'stickler' to see that.

[Age]

Well it's definitely a violent act?

Not necessarily so.

It certainly is NOT in context of Allah and islam.

It is though. Violence is "Behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something." Violence includes killing someone by definition.

Although all of this is coming from a very CLOSED perspective, what you say following is coming from an OPEN perspective. So, thank you. It is refreshing to find one who is OPEN. Asking for clarity is a sure sign of OPENNESS.

I will add now that "arising_uk" did put a question mark at the end of two sentences, which showed some sort of openness, but one sentence was written as a statement of fact, which counters the question mark.

But anyway admitting that you do not get what I am getting at, which would be OBVIOUSLY the same for EVERY one, because I wrote in such a way that it looked totally absurd AND contradictory, on purpose. But you were the only one to admit this, and so you are looking for, and thus wanting, clarity, which means that you are OPEN. The "others" did NOT at all try to understand me, nor even try to understand where I was coming from.

Albeit i do not get what you're getting at here. Can you clarify?

Human beings are made up of two parts; The human body part, and, the non visible being person part.

Obviously a physical human body neither believes nor disbelieves any thing. The part that believes or disbelieves is the 'person'. A 'person' is just the non-visible thoughts (and emotions).

If 'islam' is peace and a 'muslim' is just a follower of peace, then a 'person' is either a 'muslim' (follower of peace) or a 'non-muslim' (non-follower of peace). If a person is a non follower of peace, then they are following, or doing, what is unpeaceful-like, or just plain wrong.

So, condoning the killing of a 'non-muslim person', which, remember, is NOT the physical body', means [as sanctioned by islam] the 'killing' off, or just the 'changing', of a 'person' from a wrong-doing person to a person that wants to and does follow what is peaceful-like. The purpose of this is to create a peaceful world for and by EVERY one. This interpretation has just got, however, misinterpreted by some.

The killing of a 'non-muslim person', as explained many times to "veritas aequitas" but to only fall on "deaf ears", NEVER means that a physical body is hurt, harmed, nor damaged in anyway whatsoever. So, the killing or changing of a person can happen very peacefully, which is, literally, the very OPPOSITE of committing an evil nor violent act on some body.

And, the killing of a 'person' who is a non-believer just means the 'killing' off of, or the changing of, a person who is NOT believing in thy True Self. Thee True Self, of EVERY one, is just Allah, or God. So, although I always write; I neither believe nor disbelieve in any thing, I have also made KNOWN that there is actually one thing I BELIEVE, and that is I BELIEVE in thy True Self can do and achieve any thing that I set out to do AND achieve. If people do NOT have a BELIEF in them Selves, then they could NOT achieve what they Truly WANT, which by the way is the exact same for EVERY one. That is; EVERY one WANTS to live in a Truly peaceful world in harmony together with EVERY one. Or, the Truth IS EVERY one once WANTED this, that is; until they LEARNED to start hating "others".

So, a 'non-muslim' is just a non-follower of peace, and, a 'non-believer' is just a non-believer of one's own True Self. If EVERY one was FOLLOWING peace and was BELIEVING in them Self that they could actually do BETTER, which would lead to a BETTER and more peaceful world, then the world would, naturally, be a much better place to live in. Changing one's self so that they become a BETTER person is just what the "killing of the 'non-muslims' and 'non-believers' MEANS, which is, as I have previously stated, definitely NOT an evil nor violent act, AT ALL.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Killing non-believers or non-muslims is NOT an evil nor violent act at all.

Now this will EXPOSE the ones who are OPEN from those who are CLOSED.

So you are so OPEN that it is not evil nor violent for a jihadist to kill [as sanctioned by Islam] your whole family just because all your family members are disbeliever of Islam?

YES. I WANT them ALL killed.

To me more precise, you are insisting;

Age: YES. I WANT ALL MY FAMILY MEMBERS KILLED!

[Age]

So you are so OPEN that it is not evil nor violent for a jihadist to kill [as sanctioned by Islam] your whole family just because all your family members are disbeliever of Islam?

YES. I WANT them ALL killed.

To me more precise, you are insisting;

Age: YES. I WANT ALL MY FAMILY MEMBERS KILLED!

I am NOT sure how you have made what I said "more precise". All you have done is just say EXACTLY what I said.

Did you forget what you question was to me?

[Veritas Aequitas]

But you never supported it properly, making your premise based entirely on Ibn Kathir. You need to provide the verses instead of saying "Ibn Kathir says 'fasadan' includes disbelief."

There is no specific verse that stated 'disbelief' is a fasadan [threats to Muslims and Islam].

However in the context of the 6236 verses of the Quran disbelief [KFR - Kufr] is a fasadan [FSD] as represented by 3400++ verses that condemned the disbelievers.

I refer to Ibn Kathir [as a convenience] because he was a very reputable Islamic Scholar and reasonable credible in his interpretation of the Quran.

Here is a sample of the 100s of significant verses, i.e.;

• 2:120. And the Jews will not be pleased with thee [O Muhammad], nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed [MLL; millat -millatahum]. ...

At least quote the whole verse:

"And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper."
This basically means that you shouldn't follow their religion or else you will be helpless against Allah in heaven. That doesn't answer our question.

2:217. They [Muslims] question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say [O Muhammad]: Warfare therein [in the sacred month] is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel his people thence, is a greater [matter] with Allah; for persecution [fitnah - idolatory, non-believers threats ] is worse than killing. And they [the infidels -Quraysh] will not cease from fighting against you [Muslims] till they [infidels] have made you [Muslims] renegades from your religion [deenihi Islam], if they [the infidels] can...

Again, simplyfing it, this is basically "People are asking us about why we fight in the sacred months. That is a great transgression, but they are preventing us access to Al Masjid Al Haram, they are expulsing the people there and are averting people from way of Allah, so it is justified. And those infidels won't stop doing this and attacking you untill they make you like them, a kaffir."
Such a justification isn't limited to Islam. Remember the crusades for an example.

3:100. O ye [Muslims] who believe! If ye [Muslims] obey a party of those [Christians - infidels] who have received the Scripture they [infidels] will make you disbelievers [kuffar] after your belief.

I'm pretty sure you're trying quite hard to find the verves, since this is pretty much "If you listen to those pesky non-Muslims, they will make you a disbeliever." Not even relevant.

18:20. For they, if they [disbelievers] should come to know of you, will stone you or turn you back to their religion [millatihim]; then ye will never prosper.

You're quoting verses really out of context to make it seem like this about kaffirs as a whole or even kaffirs in Muhammad's time-it is not. This is about a spesific group of people that the previous verses talk about, but i won't quote them since it would end up being terribly long. But they're talking about a group of disbelievers who would either kill them or force them back into their religion. They definitely aren't the ones who will kill them as they are about 5 people. For more context, simply read the relevant verses.

7:1. Those [kafaru; disbelievers] who disbelieve and turn (men) from [SDD: ṣaddū] the way of Allah, He [Allah] rendereth their [infidels] actions vain [of no spiritual value that will please Allah].

Which is eternal damnation. And..?

58:16. They [disbelievers] make a shelter [cover, pretext] of their oaths and turn [FSD: faṣaddū: hinder] (men) [Muslims] from the way of Allah; so theirs [infidels] will be a shameful doom.

In the 18th verse, it becomes clear that this is an oath about being a Muslim even though they really aren't, so this one is about the Hypocrites. While the "shameful doom" could've referred to both killing and eternal damnation, the killing part wouldn't make sense because you do not know who is a Hypocrite, since they can swear to Allah about becoming a Muslim. Also, the 14th verse establishes that they can't be kaffirs:
"Have you not considered those who make allies of a people with whom Allah has become angry? They are neither of you nor of them, and they swear to untruth while they know [they are lying]."
This was probably an attempt by Muhammad to alleviate fears about such people amongst the Muslims.


Also, as for your question about my religion: I'm an atheist, but not a new one (or, to put it another way, i'm not a new atheist).

I stated there are 100s of verses which directly implicate 'disbelief' [KFR: Kufr] and 3400++ verses in the Quran's 6236 verses as a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I produced a few of the above verses as examples but no matter whatever context you read them the implication is 'disbelievers' with their disbelief [kufr] is a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I did not produce the whole verse in 2:120 because the other parts are not relevant and I do not want to flood the post with what is unnecessary.

Since you insisted.

• 2:120. And the Jews will not be pleased with thee [O Muhammad], nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed [MLL; millat -millatahum]. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou [Muhammad] shouldst follow their [infidels] desires [HWY; ahwāahum] after the knowledge [Quran] which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou [Muhammad] have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.

HereToDiscuss: This basically means that you shouldn't follow their religion or else you will be helpless against Allah in heaven.
Your point is true but there is an addition element in the background, i.e.
-the Jews and Christian will not be pleased till thou follow their creed.

The above imply the Jews and Christians will attempt to convert Muhammad or get rid of him [or kill] him, thus a threat to the religion of Islam.
If the Jews and Christians are not pleased with Muhammad, they are also not pleased with Muslims until they follow their religion, thus a potential threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.
Can't you see the point above?

I gave other verses that support the point, the disbelief of the disbelievers is a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam, thus disbelief is a threat i.e. fasadan, and that warrant 5:33 to be acted upon.

As I mentioned it is not only the few verses that I quoted, but there are 100s and 3400++ [indirect] that support the point that kufr [FSD], i.e. disbelief is one of the central point of the ethos of Islam deemed as a threat [fasadan].

Here is what the very famous Islamic scholar, Izutzu, recognized by famous Muslims stated;

• "In my opinion, even the concept of faith or belied as the highest ethico-religious value in Islam, may best be analyzed not directly but rather in terms of kufr [disbelief], that is from its [Islam's] negative side.

As I had stated you have to account for the term in the whole context of the Quran and Islam.

Btw, what sort of work have you done on the Quran to ensure your views on Islam is reasonably credible?
Have you read the whole of the Quran more than 50, or 30 or 10 or 5 times accompanied by detailed analysis of the verses?

[Veritas Aequitas]

Age: YES. I WANT ALL MY FAMILY MEMBERS KILLED!

I am NOT sure how you have made what I said "more precise". All you have done is just say EXACTLY what I said.

Did you forget what you question was to me?

Yes, "EXACTLY" as reconfirmed by you.

[HereToDiscuss]

I stated there are 100s of verses which directly implicate 'disbelief' [KFR: Kufr] and 3400++ verses in the Quran's 6236 verses as a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I produced a few of the above verses as examples but no matter whatever context you read them the implication is 'disbelievers' with their disbelief [kufr] is a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I did not produce the whole verse in 2:120 because the other parts are not relevant and I do not want to flood the post with what is unnecessary.

Since you insisted.

• 2:120. And the Jews will not be pleased with thee [O Muhammad], nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed [MLL; millat -millatahum]. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou [Muhammad] shouldst follow their [infidels] desires [HWY; ahwāahum] after the knowledge [Quran] which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou [Muhammad] have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.

HereToDiscuss: This basically means that you shouldn't follow their religion or else you will be helpless against Allah in heaven.
Your point is true but there is an addition element in the background, i.e.
-the Jews and Christian will not be pleased till thou follow their creed.

The above imply the Jews and Christians will attempt to convert Muhammad or get rid of him [or kill] him, thus a threat to the religion of Islam.
If the Jews and Christians are not please with Muhammad, they are also not please with Muslims until they follow their religion, thus a potential threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.
Can't you see the point above?

Only if you count merely disbelieving as a threat. Howewer, the ayats talk about something more: The Jews and the Christians in his story are people who actively conspire against the Muslims. Even if we conceded that these spesific people would have to be killed as they cause disorder -albeit, generally, their men were killed while everybody else was taken slaves-, that doesn't establish a foundation for killing people who just disbelieve and are peaceful.

By the way, it is "Izutsu", not "Izutzu".

And, no, i didn't just read the Quran over and over again with detailed analysis of every verse. That would require me to devote a lot of time that can be better spent elsewhere as i'm not that interested in Islam.

[HereToDiscuss]

I stated there are 100s of verses which directly implicate 'disbelief' [KFR: Kufr] and 3400++ verses in the Quran's 6236 verses as a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I produced a few of the above verses as examples but no matter whatever context you read them the implication is 'disbelievers' with their disbelief [kufr] is a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I did not produce the whole verse in 2:120 because the other parts are not relevant and I do not want to flood the post with what is unnecessary.

Since you insisted.

• 2:120. And the Jews will not be pleased with thee [O Muhammad], nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed [MLL; millat -millatahum]. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou [Muhammad] shouldst follow their [infidels] desires [HWY; ahwāahum] after the knowledge [Quran] which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou [Muhammad] have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.

HereToDiscuss: This basically means that you shouldn't follow their religion or else you will be helpless against Allah in heaven.
Your point is true but there is an addition element in the background, i.e.
-the Jews and Christian will not be pleased till thou follow their creed.

The above imply the Jews and Christians will attempt to convert Muhammad or get rid of him [or kill] him, thus a threat to the religion of Islam.
If the Jews and Christians are not please with Muhammad, they are also not please with Muslims until they follow their religion, thus a potential threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.
Can't you see the point above?

Only if you count merely disbelieving as a threat. Howewer, the ayats talk about something more: The Jews and the Christians in his story are people who actively conspire against the Muslims. Even if we conceded that these spesific people would have to be killed as they cause disorder -albeit, generally, their men were killed while everybody else was taken slaves-, that doesn't establish a foundation for killing people who just disbelieve and are peaceful.

And, no, i didn't just read the Quran over and over again with detailed analysis of every verse. That would require me to devote a lot of time that can be better spent elsewhere as i'm not that interested in Islam.

[Veritas Aequitas]

I stated there are 100s of verses which directly implicate 'disbelief' [KFR: Kufr] and 3400++ verses in the Quran's 6236 verses as a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I produced a few of the above verses as examples but no matter whatever context you read them the implication is 'disbelievers' with their disbelief [kufr] is a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I did not produce the whole verse in 2:120 because the other parts are not relevant and I do not want to flood the post with what is unnecessary.

Since you insisted.

• 2:120. And the Jews will not be pleased with thee [O Muhammad], nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed [MLL; millat -millatahum]. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou [Muhammad] shouldst follow their [infidels] desires [HWY; ahwāahum] after the knowledge [Quran] which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou [Muhammad] have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.

HereToDiscuss: This basically means that you shouldn't follow their religion or else you will be helpless against Allah in heaven.
Your point is true but there is an addition element in the background, i.e.
-the Jews and Christian will not be pleased till thou follow their creed.

The above imply the Jews and Christians will attempt to convert Muhammad or get rid of him [or kill] him, thus a threat to the religion of Islam.
If the Jews and Christians are not please with Muhammad, they are also not please with Muslims until they follow their religion, thus a potential threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.
Can't you see the point above?

Only if you count merely disbelieving as a threat. Howewer, the ayats talk about something more: The Jews and the Christians in his story are people who actively conspire against the Muslims. Even if we conceded that these spesific people would have to be killed as they cause disorder -albeit, generally, their men were killed while everybody else was taken slaves-, that doesn't establish a foundation for killing people who just disbelieve and are peaceful.

By the way, it is "Izutsu", not "Izutzu".

And, no, i didn't just read the Quran over and over again with detailed analysis of every verse. That would require me to devote a lot of time that can be better spent elsewhere as i'm not that interested in Islam.

Yes, 'Izutsu', that was a typo error.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshihiko_Izutsu

The central element is 'threat' to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.
Where a few disbelievers are taken as slaves, they are no more a threat plus they can be converted to Islam.

What is critical here is the availability of Allah's command that permit 'threat' = kill which does not meant this command will be applied in all circumstances.

And, no, i didn't just read the Quran over and over again with detailed analysis of every verse. That would require me to devote a lot of time that can be better spent elsewhere as i'm not that interested in Islam.

If that is the case, how can your views on Islam be very credible.

I have spent 3 years full-time and more time in part-time till the present in researching the Quran and Islam.

Assuming both of us are average people, based on the work I have done in comparison to what you have done, it is rational on first impression, my views [not perfect] are more credible than yours.

But in any case, I do welcome your critique of my points on Islam, the more the better.

I believe every citizen of humanity should be concerned with all types of evil and violence, and one notable type, i.e. the very evident Islamic-related evil and violent acts by SOME evil prone Muslims which will be a very serious threat towards the future.

The majority of Muslims are not evil and violent prone but what is a Minority of Muslims is a frightening quantum as a pool of 360 million [conservatively, 20%] of evil prone Muslims who will dutifully and zealously act on what is exhorted and permitted by Allah. This is so evident with the following trend into the future;



Why it is so crazy and irrational is there are people who condemned those who critique Islam to find solutions to the above as Islamophobes, bigots, racists, etc. What is worst they will not provide proper counter arguments to the critiques of Islam.

Note: Critique the ideology of Islam, do not blame Muslims.

[Age]

Age: YES. I WANT ALL MY FAMILY MEMBERS KILLED!

I am NOT sure how you have made what I said "more precise". All you have done is just say EXACTLY what I said.

Did you forget what you question was to me?

Yes, "EXACTLY" as reconfirmed by you.

YES. I stand by EVERY thing that I have said, EXACTLY.

There is NO need for you to keep repeating me.

[Age]

I stated there are 100s of verses which directly implicate 'disbelief' [KFR: Kufr] and 3400++ verses in the Quran's 6236 verses as a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I produced a few of the above verses as examples but no matter whatever context you read them the implication is 'disbelievers' with their disbelief [kufr] is a threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.

I did not produce the whole verse in 2:120 because the other parts are not relevant and I do not want to flood the post with what is unnecessary.

Since you insisted.

• 2:120. And the Jews will not be pleased with thee [O Muhammad], nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed [MLL; millat -millatahum]. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou [Muhammad] shouldst follow their [infidels] desires [HWY; ahwāahum] after the knowledge [Quran] which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou [Muhammad] have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.

HereToDiscuss: This basically means that you shouldn't follow their religion or else you will be helpless against Allah in heaven.
Your point is true but there is an addition element in the background, i.e.
-the Jews and Christian will not be pleased till thou follow their creed.

The above imply the Jews and Christians will attempt to convert Muhammad or get rid of him [or kill] him, thus a threat to the religion of Islam.
If the Jews and Christians are not please with Muhammad, they are also not please with Muslims until they follow their religion, thus a potential threat to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.
Can't you see the point above?

Only if you count merely disbelieving as a threat. Howewer, the ayats talk about something more: The Jews and the Christians in his story are people who actively conspire against the Muslims. Even if we conceded that these spesific people would have to be killed as they cause disorder -albeit, generally, their men were killed while everybody else was taken slaves-, that doesn't establish a foundation for killing people who just disbelieve and are peaceful.

By the way, it is "Izutsu", not "Izutzu".

And, no, i didn't just read the Quran over and over again with detailed analysis of every verse. That would require me to devote a lot of time that can be better spent elsewhere as i'm not that interested in Islam.

Yes, 'Izutsu', that was a typo error.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshihiko_Izutsu

The central element is 'threat' to the Muslim's faith and the religion of Islam.
Where a few disbelievers are taken as slaves, they are no more a threat plus they can be converted to Islam.

What is critical here is the availability of Allah's command that permit 'threat' = kill which does not meant this command will be applied in all circumstances.

And, no, i didn't just read the Quran over and over again with detailed analysis of every verse. That would require me to devote a lot of time that can be better spent elsewhere as i'm not that interested in Islam.

If that is the case, how can your views on Islam be very credible.

I have spent 3 years full-time and more time in part-time till the present in researching the Quran and Islam.

Assuming both of us are average people, based on the work I have done in comparison to what you have done, it is rational on first impression, my views [not perfect] are more credible than yours.

Are you at all aware of a thing called 'confirmation bias'?

If yes, then you should also be aware that absolutely EVERY thing you write and say could be COMPLETELY 'untrustworthy'.

To me, you have a VERY STRONG 'confirmation biases' due to your VERY STRONG BELIEFS.

If, however, you are not yet aware of a thing called 'confirmation bias', then that would help in explaining your completely one-sided views on things here.

But in any case, I do welcome your critique of my points on Islam, the more the better.

Your whole point on islam is based on distorted BELIEFS and wrong ASSUMPTIONS, therefore, to critique your "points" is just a waste of time. Until your rid yourself of your distorted and wrong BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS, then all you are doing is SEEING things, which CONFIRM your already held, and OBVIOUS, BIASES.

You, however, appear so BLIND that you can NOT even SEE these biases at all.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Your whole point on islam is based on distorted BELIEFS and wrong ASSUMPTIONS, therefore, to critique your "points" is just a waste of time. Until your rid yourself of your distorted and wrong BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS, then all you are doing is SEEING things, which CONFIRM your already held, and OBVIOUS, BIASES.

You, however, appear so BLIND that you can NOT even SEE these biases at all.

I have stated many times, what I believed and presented is not my personal beliefs but they are based on the Quranic verses [words of Allah] and are agreed by many reputable Islamic Scholars.

You are speaking from your own experiences, i.e. what you present is from your own personal subjective views which are bias and corrupted with your damaged mental state.