Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

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Sculptor
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:50 am
If all fears are irrational, then humans should not be bothered with being exposed to highly dangerous viruses and things that can cause death.
You are talking rubbish. You need knowledge of danger to avoid it. Fear is an unbalanced drive, unmeasured and can cause irrational responses.

Fear is an emotional response, not a rational one.
There is no rational fear. Its just a contradiction.
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor »

Since we are all far more likely to be shot by our own family as coming to harm because of terrorism, even by your own standards, Veritas, fearing Isalm and not fearing your own family are BOTH "irrational fears".
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henry quirk
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VA

Post by henry quirk »

"Note the fundamental of what is 'fear.'"

But you're not talkin' about garden-variety, CYA, practical fear: no, you say (or said) existential DEATH FEAR undergirds the whole of the psyche. Me: I don't dispute the value of garden-variety, CYA, practical fear; instead I say DEATH FEAR is unnatural and neurotic.

#

"My conclusion show instinctual 'the fear of death' is one necessary instinct to avoid death [P2], thus to survive [P1]."

I say...

'life' is driven to live (not to avoid death);
higher life (like man) is conscious of its drive to live;
fear is a natural, normal survival tool;
DEATH FEAR is unnatural, abnormal and wholly neurotic.
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:17 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:50 am
If all fears are irrational, then humans should not be bothered with being exposed to highly dangerous viruses and things that can cause death.
You are talking rubbish. You need knowledge of danger to avoid it. Fear is an unbalanced drive, unmeasured and can cause irrational responses.

Fear is an emotional response, not a rational one.
There is no rational fear. Its just a contradiction.
YOU are talking rubbish.
What is irrational-fear is on hindsight, i.e. when one respond to the trigger of fear by responding in a way that is not irrational.

Yes, fear is an emotion, it purpose is to trigger for responses to facilitate survival.
The fear emotion can be triggered by threats that are potentially fatal in various degrees and form.
These threats are instinctual, learned or perceived.
The human being is triggered and motivated to respond accordingly.

What is rational is the function of the higher reasoning faculty.
What is irrational is when one respond to the trigger of fear by responding in a way that is not irrational.
For example phobias are irrational responses to the trigger of fear. To fear spiders merely from the sight of them, even up to 50-20 feet, is irrational, since whatever threat of death is in this case is negligible.

Thus whether a fear response is rational or irrational is always an after thought and a deliberation.

A fear response to the ideology of Islam is not irrational because it is very rational to fear the potential fatal threats from the ideology of Islam as it is so evident.
Thus the justified critique of the ideology of Islam upon justified-fears* is not irrational.
* I have argued on this elsewhere that is it the ideology of Islam itself that exhorts Muslims to war against and kill non-Muslims.

However, Muslimophobia, the fear of Muslims or a Muslim which is upon perceived-unjustified-fear is irrational.
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:19 pm Since we are all far more likely to be shot by our own family as coming to harm because of terrorism, even by your own standards, Veritas, fearing Islam and not fearing your own family are BOTH "irrational fears".
You are irrational in conflating the different variables, Islam and family members into one pigeon hole.

I had stated, DNA-RNA wise all humans has the inherent potential to commit evil and violent acts. A percentile [conservatively 20%] are born with an active evil tendency.
Therefore is likely for one to be killed by any human including family members, but their motivations are not commanded by an ideology from God as in Islam.
It is not a norm, instinct nor principle for family members to kill each other. However it is a principle and command of Allah to kill non-Muslims upon very vague threats [fasadin].

All the above potentials of evil and violence must be dealt with. This OP is about specifically Islam and not all other types of evil and violent acts.

Since the ideology of Islam is a potential for Muslim to commit terrible atrocities, evil and violent acts, to topic, I have justified with reasons why we need to dealt with the ideology of Islam.

Note I wrote above re why it is justified to fear the ideology of Islam, i.e.
  • The fear response to the ideology of Islam is not irrational because it is very rational to fear the potential fatal threats from the ideology of Islam as it is so evident.
    Thus the justified critique of the ideology of Islam upon justified-fears* is not irrational.
    * I have argued on this elsewhere that is it the ideology of Islam itself that exhorts Muslims to war against and kill non-Muslims.
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Re: VA

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:42 pm "Note the fundamental of what is 'fear.'"

But you're not talkin' about garden-variety, CYA, practical fear: no, you say (or said) existential DEATH FEAR undergirds the whole of the psyche. Me: I don't dispute the value of garden-variety, CYA, practical fear; instead I say DEATH FEAR is unnatural and neurotic.

#

"My conclusion show instinctual 'the fear of death' is one necessary instinct to avoid death [P2], thus to survive [P1]."

I say...

'life' is driven to live (not to avoid death);
higher life (like man) is conscious of its drive to live;
fear is a natural, normal survival tool;
DEATH FEAR is unnatural, abnormal and wholly neurotic.
Nah.

Driven-to-live entails many things including to avoid death.
Avoiding death also include many actions including the fear of death.
Yes, fear is a natural, normal survival tool,
But fear is driven from the unconscious [1].
Thus the fear of death has to be unconscious.
Therefore the unconscious fear of death is a normal instinct.
I have argued all human are conditioned not to have a conscious fear of death exception in certain circumstances but that is temporary.
henry quirk wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:42 pmDEATH FEAR is unnatural, abnormal and wholly neurotic.
You are merely making a statement but you provided no argument and justifications at all!
Note it is not DEATH FEAR but the Unconscious Fear of Death which is an instinct in the brain.

Btw, do you bother to read up points that you are not aware or unsure?
Here is what you should read up and do research further..
You just cannot simply make up statements YOU think is right without seeking justifications.
  • The thalamus collects sensory data from the senses
    Sensory cortex receives data from the thalamus and interprets it
    Sensory cortex organizes information for dissemination to the hypothalamus (fight or flight), amygdalae (fear), hippocampus (memory)
The brain structures that are the center of most neurobiological events associated with fear are the two amygdalae, located behind the pituitary gland. Each amygdala is part of a circuitry of fear learning.[2] They are essential for proper adaptation to stress and specific modulation of emotional learning memory. In the presence of a threatening stimulus, the amygdalae generate the secretion of hormones that influence fear and aggression.[45] Once a response to the stimulus in the form of fear or aggression commences, the amygdalae may elicit the release of hormones into the body to put the person into a state of alertness, in which they are ready to move, run, fight, etc. This defensive response is generally referred to in physiology as the fight-or-flight response regulated by the hypothalamus, part of the limbic system.[46] Once the person is in safe mode, meaning that there are no longer any potential threats surrounding them, the amygdalae will send this information to the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) where it is stored for similar future situations, which is known as memory consolidation.

You need to continue with the above here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear#Neur ... in_mammals
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Here is a collection of articles on Why Islamophobia is a stupid term.

  • In November 2018 the All-Party Parliamentary Group
    (APPG) on British Muslims, chaired by Anna Soubry MP,
    published its report, Islamophobia Defined, as:

    Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness.’
What a stupid definition.
Here is one opposition to the definition from one of the contributor, Peter Tatchell;
  • There are three big problems with this definition.

    First, while Islamophobia can be an expression of racism, it is not ipso facto racist because neither Islam nor Muslims are a race. Islam is an idea and Muslims include people from many races.

    Second, Muslimness is a vague and subjective term. Who gets to decide what it means? Muslimness means different things even to different sects of Islam – Sunni, Shia, Sufi and Ahmadi. Some ultra conservatives and Islamists claim to represent true Muslimness and use it to justify their opposition to women’s and LGBT+ rights.

    Third, this definition has implications for free speech. Islam is an idea and like all ideas it should be open to scrutiny and criticism. Yet very often all critiques of Islam are denounced as an attack on Muslim people.
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henry quirk
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VA

Post by henry quirk »

"Nah"

yep
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Sculptor
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:06 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:17 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:50 am
If all fears are irrational, then humans should not be bothered with being exposed to highly dangerous viruses and things that can cause death.
You are talking rubbish. You need knowledge of danger to avoid it. Fear is an unbalanced drive, unmeasured and can cause irrational responses.

Fear is an emotional response, not a rational one.
There is no rational fear. Its just a contradiction.
YOU are talking rubbish.
What is irrational-fear is on hindsight, i.e. when one respond to the trigger of fear by responding in a way that is not irrational.

Yes, fear is an emotion, it purpose is to trigger for responses to facilitate survival.
The fear emotion can be triggered by threats that are potentially fatal in various degrees and form.
These threats are instinctual, learned or perceived.
The human being is triggered and motivated to respond accordingly.

What is rational is the function of the higher reasoning faculty.
What is irrational is when one respond to the trigger of fear by responding in a way that is not irrational.
For example phobias are irrational responses to the trigger of fear. To fear spiders merely from the sight of them, even up to 50-20 feet, is irrational, since whatever threat of death is in this case is negligible.

Thus whether a fear response is rational or irrational is always an after thought and a deliberation.

A fear response to the ideology of Islam is not irrational because it is very rational to fear the potential fatal threats from the ideology of Islam as it is so evident.
Thus the justified critique of the ideology of Islam upon justified-fears* is not irrational.
* I have argued on this elsewhere that is it the ideology of Islam itself that exhorts Muslims to war against and kill non-Muslims.

However, Muslimophobia, the fear of Muslims or a Muslim which is upon perceived-unjustified-fear is irrational.
ROLF.
You are completely wrong headed on this issue.
Fear is an emotional response; Basic and primal.
It is ALWAYS irrational.
Get a life, pussy!
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Sculptor
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:21 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:19 pm Since we are all far more likely to be shot by our own family as coming to harm because of terrorism, even by your own standards, Veritas, fearing Islam and not fearing your own family are BOTH "irrational fears".
You are irrational in conflating the different variables, Islam and family members into one pigeon hole.

I had stated, DNA-RNA wise all humans has the inherent potential to commit evil and violent acts. A percentile [conservatively 20%] are born with an active evil tendency.
Therefore is likely for one to be killed by any human including family members, but their motivations are not commanded by an ideology from God as in Islam.
It is not a norm, instinct nor principle for family members to kill each other. However it is a principle and command of Allah to kill non-Muslims upon very vague threats [fasadin].

All the above potentials of evil and violence must be dealt with. This OP is about specifically Islam and not all other types of evil and violent acts.

Since the ideology of Islam is a potential for Muslim to commit terrible atrocities, evil and violent acts, to topic, I have justified with reasons why we need to dealt with the ideology of Islam.

Note I wrote above re why it is justified to fear the ideology of Islam, i.e.
  • The fear response to the ideology of Islam is not irrational because it is very rational to fear the potential fatal threats from the ideology of Islam as it is so evident.
    Thus the justified critique of the ideology of Islam upon justified-fears* is not irrational.
    * I have argued on this elsewhere that is it the ideology of Islam itself that exhorts Muslims to war against and kill non-Muslims.
BooHoo.
Those dark skinned monsters are going to get me!
I'm so scared!!!

ROLF.
You are completely wrong headed on this issue.
Fear is an emotional response; Basic and primal.
It is ALWAYS irrational.
Get a life, pussy!
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Together the "fear of death" and "love of life" is a dichotomy. As they both define one another. Today, seemingly, one can't have one without the other.

Those that deny their "fear of death" and prefer to say they have the "love of life," fear being one that fears. Especially in the faces of a great many onlookers. It's an ego thing. The stature that one wishes to project despite the truth of the matter. Everyone fears so very much that they attempt to project a fearless nature. In fact the truth shall always set one free, there are no exceptions. Of course I mean free in terms of self. But in fact if all were truthful it would also set the world population free, such that no one would criticize ones fears as being less human, actually a quite absurd notion. Such is one part of the current human condition.

FEAR! Shall we ever be free of it's darkness? It's selfishness? It's unjust nature? Shall we ever be capable of accepting the truth of human things?
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:39 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:21 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:19 pm Since we are all far more likely to be shot by our own family as coming to harm because of terrorism, even by your own standards, Veritas, fearing Islam and not fearing your own family are BOTH "irrational fears".
You are irrational in conflating the different variables, Islam and family members into one pigeon hole.

I had stated, DNA-RNA wise all humans has the inherent potential to commit evil and violent acts. A percentile [conservatively 20%] are born with an active evil tendency.
Therefore is likely for one to be killed by any human including family members, but their motivations are not commanded by an ideology from God as in Islam.
It is not a norm, instinct nor principle for family members to kill each other. However it is a principle and command of Allah to kill non-Muslims upon very vague threats [fasadin].

All the above potentials of evil and violence must be dealt with. This OP is about specifically Islam and not all other types of evil and violent acts.

Since the ideology of Islam is a potential for Muslim to commit terrible atrocities, evil and violent acts, to topic, I have justified with reasons why we need to dealt with the ideology of Islam.

Note I wrote above re why it is justified to fear the ideology of Islam, i.e.
  • The fear response to the ideology of Islam is not irrational because it is very rational to fear the potential fatal threats from the ideology of Islam as it is so evident.
    Thus the justified critique of the ideology of Islam upon justified-fears* is not irrational.
    * I have argued on this elsewhere that is it the ideology of Islam itself that exhorts Muslims to war against and kill non-Muslims.
BooHoo.
Those dark skinned monsters are going to get me!
I'm so scared!!!

ROLF.
You are completely wrong headed on this issue.
Fear is an emotional response; Basic and primal.
It is ALWAYS irrational.
Get a life, pussy!
You should get a life, ignorant pussy!

The term 'rational fear' is commonly used in the research and discussion of fear.
Just google 'rational fear' to get rid of your ignorance.
I googled "irrational fear" in " " I get 1,480,000 hits, one example below;

Rational vs. Irrational Fear: Determining the Effects of Both Fears
https://www.healthresearchpolicy.org/ra ... onal-fear/


Yes, fear is an emotional response, however the terms 'irrational fear' and 'rational fear' is recognized in common usage in terms to how this fear was triggered or the manner one response consciously to the emotional fear.

You are insulting your own intelligence when you persist in your illogical and irrational argument.
Here is my rational argument why the term 'rational fear' is meaningful.

A phobia is defined as an irrational fear.
Muslims and their apologists accuse critiques of Islam as Islamophobic, i.e. irrational fears of Islam.
I have proven there are reasons to fear the ideology of Islam which is the logical opposite of Islamophobic.
The logical opposite of irrational-fear is thus logically rational-fear.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
surreptitious57
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Fear is an automatic emotional and biological response to a situation
And it can be either rational or irrational depending on that situation

A rational fear is one where the fear is justified because the thing in question can actually cause harm
An irrational fear is one where the fear is not justified because the thing in question cannot cause harm

So for example it is irrational to be afraid of jelly but rational to be afraid of snakes because jelly cannot cause harm whereas snakes can
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:28 am Fear is an automatic emotional and biological response to a situation
And it can be either rational or irrational depending on that situation

A rational fear is one where the fear is justified because the thing in question can actually cause harm
An irrational fear is one where the fear is not justified because the thing in question cannot cause harm

So for example it is irrational to be afraid of jelly but rational to be afraid of snakes because jelly cannot cause harm whereas snakes can
Agree. Your point is so common sense and rational.

Sculptor's bigoted condemnation of my use of 'rational fear' showed he is insulting his own intelligence.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:28 am Fear is an automatic emotional and biological response to a situation
And it can be either rational or irrational depending on that situation

A rational fear is one where the fear is justified because the thing in question can actually cause harm
An irrational fear is one where the fear is not justified because the thing in question cannot cause harm

So for example it is irrational to be afraid of jelly but rational to be afraid of snakes because jelly cannot cause harm whereas snakes can
Incorrect, according to biochemistry sugar is a poison to the human body.

So as we can see, rationality is directly influenced by ignorance and knowledge alike.
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