Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

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Age
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Age » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:42 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am
Age wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:08 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:08 am
I have already provided evidences of verses from the ideology of Islam that commanded Muslims to war against and kill non-Muslims under conditions of fasadan [FSD] which is any threat against the religion of Islam including 'disbelief of Islam'.
And I have ALREADY informed you that you have MISINTERPRETED those verses.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:08 am
Btw, have you read the 6236 verses of the Quran - the core authority of Islam, thoroughly?
No.

And there is NO need to.

If you think any of them portrays evil ideologies, then you will make them KNOWN.

I will then TELL YOU that you have MISINTERPRETED those verses.

But you will NOT be able to HEAR this, ANYWAY.

So, you WILL just keep on doing what you are now.
It is only intellectual retard would insist on the above.
Therefore, 'I' am, to you, an INTELLECTUAL RETARD.

I REALLY do NOT care.

I will, however, also POINT OUT that IF you think or believe that this is HOW to argue against the words written in front of you on a philosophy forum, then so be it. Just keep carrying on the way you ARE. It suits my objective absolutely.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am
Have you any sense of normal intellectual protocols and standards?
Are they the same, so called, "normal intellectual protocols and standards", which 'you', human beings, have been using for thousands upon thousands of years, which, by the way, have also NOT yet been able to provide ANSWERS to any of the same OLD questions that you have kept being asked over and over again?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am
How can you make any judgement on any literal materials if you have not read and understand [not necessary agree with] the points therein.
Who said I have NOT read "literal" materials?

Also, to use the word "understand" in relation to so called "literal" materials IS the POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING HERE.

What 'you', as an individual, UNDERSTAND is WHOLLY relative.

AND, what else I have been POINTING OUT is that it IS 'you', "veritas aequitas", who keeps INSISTING that you KNOW what the ONE and ONLY 'ideology' IS and so you BELIEVE you 'UNDERSTAND' it FULLY.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am

Age wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:42 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am
Age wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:08 am

And I have ALREADY informed you that you have MISINTERPRETED those verses.

No.

And there is NO need to.

If you think any of them portrays evil ideologies, then you will make them KNOWN.

I will then TELL YOU that you have MISINTERPRETED those verses.

But you will NOT be able to HEAR this, ANYWAY.

So, you WILL just keep on doing what you are now.
It is only intellectual retard would insist on the above.
Therefore, 'I' am, to you, an INTELLECTUAL RETARD.

I REALLY do NOT care.

I will, however, also POINT OUT that IF you think or believe that this is HOW to argue against the words written in front of you on a philosophy forum, then so be it. Just keep carrying on the way you ARE. It suits my objective absolutely.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am
Have you any sense of normal intellectual protocols and standards?
Are they the same, so called, "normal intellectual protocols and standards", which 'you', human beings, have been using for thousands upon thousands of years, which, by the way, have also NOT yet been able to provide ANSWERS to any of the same OLD questions that you have kept being asked over and over again?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am
How can you make any judgement on any literal materials if you have not read and understand [not necessary agree with] the points therein.
Who said I have NOT read "literal" materials?

Also, to use the word "understand" in relation to so called "literal" materials IS the POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING HERE.

What 'you', as an individual, UNDERSTAND is WHOLLY relative.

AND, what else I have been POINTING OUT is that it IS 'you', "veritas aequitas", who keeps INSISTING that you KNOW what the ONE and ONLY 'ideology' IS and so you BELIEVE you 'UNDERSTAND' it FULLY.
I have to insist you are an intellectual retard.

When you insist you are not a human being as others, then there is something wrong with you and it is a non-starter to have any normal intellectual discussion. It is only the mental cases who would claim 'you humans' and imply 'Age is not a human being'.

In my argument, it is not "me" as an individual who understand, but my understanding is based on what is Allah's original message in the Quran and fully understood by at least 20% of Muslims, i.e. 360 million.

For example,
  • 9:23. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends [WLY; awliyāa] if they take pleasure in disbelief [l-kuf'ra; as infidels] rather than faith [AMN; l-īmāni]. Whoso of you [Muslims] taketh them [infidels] for friends [WLY: awliyāa], such [Muslims] are wrong doers [ZLM: l-ẓālimūna] [sinful].

    3:118. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Take not for intimates [friends biṭānatan بِطَانَةً ب ط ن ] others [infidels] than your own folk, who [these infidels] would spare no pains to ruin you [Muslims]; they [infidels] love to hamper [ʿanittum عَنِتُّمْ ع ن ت ] you [Muslims]. Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their [infidels] mouths, but that which their [infidels] breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you [Muslims] the revelations if ye will understand.
What is so difficult for me to understand the above in the context of the whole Quran's 6236 verses.
What is critical is millions of Muslims' [scholars, experts, lay-Muslims] have the same understanding as mine.

Therefore your point,
  • Age: AND, what else I have been POINTING OUT is that it IS 'you', "veritas aequitas", who keeps INSISTING that you KNOW what the ONE and ONLY 'ideology' IS and so you BELIEVE you 'UNDERSTAND' it FULLY.
is a retarded view!

Age
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Age » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:07 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
Age wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:42 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am

It is only intellectual retard would insist on the above.
Therefore, 'I' am, to you, an INTELLECTUAL RETARD.

I REALLY do NOT care.

I will, however, also POINT OUT that IF you think or believe that this is HOW to argue against the words written in front of you on a philosophy forum, then so be it. Just keep carrying on the way you ARE. It suits my objective absolutely.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am
Have you any sense of normal intellectual protocols and standards?
Are they the same, so called, "normal intellectual protocols and standards", which 'you', human beings, have been using for thousands upon thousands of years, which, by the way, have also NOT yet been able to provide ANSWERS to any of the same OLD questions that you have kept being asked over and over again?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 am
How can you make any judgement on any literal materials if you have not read and understand [not necessary agree with] the points therein.
Who said I have NOT read "literal" materials?

Also, to use the word "understand" in relation to so called "literal" materials IS the POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING HERE.

What 'you', as an individual, UNDERSTAND is WHOLLY relative.

AND, what else I have been POINTING OUT is that it IS 'you', "veritas aequitas", who keeps INSISTING that you KNOW what the ONE and ONLY 'ideology' IS and so you BELIEVE you 'UNDERSTAND' it FULLY.
I have to insist you are an intellectual retard.
Then I REALLY MUST BE an INTELLECTUAL RETARD then, to you.

So is that all you NEED to PROVE that what I say MUST BE WRONG?

Is your judgement call of me, then VERIFY for you the Truth of things.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
When you insist you are not a human being as others,
LOL. WHEN have I EVER insisted what you say here?

Remember I write things in certain ways, for particular purposes. One of those reasons being to HIGHLIGHT how much 'you', adult human beings, ASSUME things BEFORE you even KNOW what the actual Truth IS. One other reason is to HIGHLIGHT just how often 'you', adult human beings, are WRONG when you make those ASSUMPTIONS. Plus there are other reasons.

If the Truth be KNOWN you have absolutely NO idea what I actually write and say, let alone what I actually mean, let alone jumping to the conclusion that you say I am "insisting" some thing.

You are so far off track and so blinded that this is hysterical to watch.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
then there is something wrong with you and it is a non-starter to have any normal intellectual discussion. It is only the mental cases who would claim 'you humans' and imply 'Age is not a human being'.
LOL

Once again 'you', "veritas aequitas", are ASSUMING the absurd, which is so OBVIOUSLY WRONG and so you are BELIEVING things that are so OBVIOUSLY WRONG also.

You could NOT be further from the actual Truth of things now, even if you tried to be.

'you', human beings, are so EASY to manipulate and get you to do the very things that I want you to do.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
In my argument, it is not "me" as an individual who understand, but my understanding is based on what is Allah's original message in the Quran and fully understood by at least 20% of Muslims, i.e. 360 million.
LOL

For a person who insists that God/Allah is an IMPOSSIBILITY to be real BUT THEN claims that they UNDERSTAND and thus KNOW the "original message" of Allah, Itself, speaks volumes about mental health.

Once again, the EASE at which some things can be manipulated and shaped into EXACTLY what I WANT is incredible.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
For example,
  • 9:23. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends [WLY; awliyāa] if they take pleasure in disbelief [l-kuf'ra; as infidels] rather than faith [AMN; l-īmāni]. Whoso of you [Muslims] taketh them [infidels] for friends [WLY: awliyāa], such [Muslims] are wrong doers [ZLM: l-ẓālimūna] [sinful].
YES, this is ALL about PEACE and HOW to create a Truly peaceful world for EVERY one, which is in line with the bible AND what God says.

This quote here is just a more up to date and a roughly 500 year old newer and more modern version than the "original messages" in the bible.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
3:118. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Take not for intimates [friends biṭānatan بِطَانَةً ب ط ن ] others [infidels] than your own folk, who [these infidels] would spare no pains to ruin you [Muslims]; they [infidels] love to hamper [ʿanittum عَنِتُّمْ ع ن ت ] you [Muslims]. Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their [infidels] mouths, but that which their [infidels] breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you [Muslims] the revelations if ye will understand.[/list]
Notice the first one is about 'disbelief' and the second one is about 'belief' and 'I' have been saying from the outset of coming here, into this forum, about BELIEF and DISBELIEF?

Also, notice what I have said about having only ONE 'belief', which NOT one of 'you', human beings, have picked me up on yet. I have made the most CONTRADICTORY statements, a few times now already, yet non of 'you' even question me nor challenge me about it. you seem to be to BLINDED by your own BELIEFS that you even fail to NOTICE the purposely made glaringly OBVIOUS contradictions and thus Truth of things.

Anyway and just like it says in your second example. What IS plain is the revelations, which you True followers of PEACE, WILL UNDERSTAND. Unfortunately though, when this is written, NOT one of 'you', adult human beings, is a True follower of PEACE, and this is WHY none of you UNDERSTAND, and thus WHY none of you have had things reveal, to you.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
What is so difficult for me to understand the above in the context of the whole Quran's 6236 verses.
What is critical is millions of Muslims' [scholars, experts, lay-Muslims] have the same understanding as mine.
LOL
LOL
LOL



How many "muslims" actually behave in terrorist and violent ways? Remembering EVERY "soldier" on ALL "sides" of ANY "war" whilst in, or ordering, combat is behaving in terrorist AND violent ways.

IF ONLY "millions" of "muslims" have the SAME understanding as you, then how many of those ones actually follow YOUR understanding of the quran. That is; do terrifying and violent acts?

Now, do the so called "scholar" and "expert" "muslims" also do these terrifying and violent acts, or is it only "others" who do these things?

Also, there are said to be over 1500 million "muslims" so WHY do a HUGE majority of them lead relatively peaceful lives and 'try to' follow peace rather than lead and follow YOUR interpretation AND understanding of the quran?

If they are Truly "muslims" then they should be and would ALL be commiting these violent and terrifying acts, which you purport Allah is instructing them to do.

So again, WHY do BILLIONS of "muslims" live in relative peace, and it is ONLY a relatively EXTREMELY TINY fraction of a percentage of "muslims" who follow and SHARE your understanding of the quran?

Also, if ONLY that tiny small fraction follow what you say is the TRUE ideology, then what does that make the other over one and half BILLION "others"? Are they or are they NOT "muslims?

Your Honest answer to ALL of my clarifying questions would be much appreciated.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
Therefore your point,
  • Age: AND, what else I have been POINTING OUT is that it IS 'you', "veritas aequitas", who keeps INSISTING that you KNOW what the ONE and ONLY 'ideology' IS and so you BELIEVE you 'UNDERSTAND' it FULLY.
is a retarded view!
If this is a "retarded view" of mine, then that means you either do NOT understand FULLY the ideology of islam, or you DO FULLY understand the ideology of islam, so which one is it?

If you do NOT understand FULLY the ideology of islam, then my view here could be regarded as a "retarded view". However, If you do FULLY understand the ideology of islam, then my view here would be true, right, AND correct, and therefore WHY do you propose my view to be a "retarded view"?

Some readers would be most interested in what you Honest answers will be.

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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:27 am

Age wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:07 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
In my argument, it is not "me" as an individual who understand, but my understanding is based on what is Allah's original message in the Quran and fully understood by at least 20% of Muslims, i.e. 360 million.
LOL

For a person who insists that God/Allah is an IMPOSSIBILITY to be real BUT THEN claims that they UNDERSTAND and thus KNOW the "original message" of Allah, Itself, speaks volumes about mental health.

Once again, the EASE at which some things can be manipulated and shaped into EXACTLY what I WANT is incredible.
You are truly an intellectual retard.

Note if you read a story of fiction, the characters are not real.
But obviously one should be able to understand the intentions of the various fictional characters within the fictional story itself.

There are many instances where different groups have different understanding of what is the intention of a fictional character [say X] within a fiction story. Example in a Harry Potter or Star Trek story.
The above can be resolved by asking the author directly what is the intention s/he had written of X.

In the case of Islam, the Quran was actually a fictional book constructed by Muhammad or a group of man.
Whilst the author is not around to confirm, one can deduce what the original message of Allah within the Quran from the text and context.

Note verse 9:23 is very straightforward to understand;
  • 9:23. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends [WLY; awliyāa] if they take pleasure in disbelief [l-kuf'ra; as infidels] rather than faith [AMN; l-īmāni]. Whoso of you [Muslims] taketh them [infidels] for friends [WLY: awliyāa], such [Muslims] are wrong doers [ZLM: l-ẓālimūna] [sinful].
It is so straightforward.

Yet you come up with a stupid interpretation, i.e.
  • YES, this is ALL about PEACE and HOW to create a Truly peaceful world for EVERY one, which is in line with the bible AND what God says.

Age
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Age » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:13 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:27 am
Age wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:07 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am
In my argument, it is not "me" as an individual who understand, but my understanding is based on what is Allah's original message in the Quran and fully understood by at least 20% of Muslims, i.e. 360 million.
LOL

For a person who insists that God/Allah is an IMPOSSIBILITY to be real BUT THEN claims that they UNDERSTAND and thus KNOW the "original message" of Allah, Itself, speaks volumes about mental health.

Once again, the EASE at which some things can be manipulated and shaped into EXACTLY what I WANT is incredible.
You are truly an intellectual retard.
This is at least the third time you have let the readers KNOW what your BELIEVE of 'me' IS.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:27 am
Note if you read a story of fiction, the characters are not real.
But obviously one should be able to understand the intentions of the various fictional characters within the fictional story itself.

There are many instances where different groups have different understanding of what is the intention of a fictional character [say X] within a fiction story. Example in a Harry Potter or Star Trek story.
The above can be resolved by asking the author directly what is the intention s/he had written of X.

In the case of Islam, the Quran was actually a fictional book constructed by Muhammad or a group of man.
Whilst the author is not around to confirm, one can deduce what the original message of Allah within the Quran from the text and context.
So, just to make it clear for the readers; Is your understanding of what Allah's original message IS, based on fiction or fact?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:27 am
Note verse 9:23 is very straightforward to understand;
  • 9:23. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends [WLY; awliyāa] if they take pleasure in disbelief [l-kuf'ra; as infidels] rather than faith [AMN; l-īmāni]. Whoso of you [Muslims] taketh them [infidels] for friends [WLY: awliyāa], such [Muslims] are wrong doers [ZLM: l-ẓālimūna] [sinful].
It is so straightforward.
Yes it is so straightforward a revelation to PEACE for EVERY one, it is surprising that human beings can NOT recognize it for what it Truly IS.

Yet you come up with a stupid interpretation, i.e.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:27 am
  • YES, this is ALL about PEACE and HOW to create a Truly peaceful world for EVERY one, which is in line with the bible AND what God says.
And you STILL profess your OWN already held BELIEFS as being absolutely true and right instead of remaining OPEN and inquiring into some other thing.

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Sculptor
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:15 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:10 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:44 pm
Judge not by word but by deed.

Most Muslims are simply born into "Islam".
Whilst I agree that Islam is violent, it is less so than Judaism, and most Christians are perfectly happy to take their instructions from the Old Testament sadly.

The Christian right in the US, in particular, seem very keen on vengeance and taking an eye for and eye (as well as a Ib of flesh for good measure).

Religions are so full of contradictions it does not really matter what the hell it says on the Holy Books. People are so full of contradictions, it does not matter what it says in the Holy Books. People do what they want and use the Scripture to justify their needs.
The Old Testament is so violent that it is easy enough to pick and choose something relevant.
In WWI, both sides were fighting for God.

It's Deeds not words.
So if words do not matter, then your words don't matter as well?
As an individual keeping to my own words, yes they do.
But for a book and a cannon of work written by dead men, and supposedly "guiding" the actions of 1.8 billion people - quite a different story.

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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:20 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:53 am
Sculptor wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:35 pm
Judge not by words but by deeds.
As an axiom for judging AMONG professing followers of any ideology, to decide who's authentic and who's not, that makes perfect sense.

But to judge the moral quality of the ideology itself, it doesn't make a lick of sense. Moreover, you can't even know how to "judge by deeds" unless you already know what particular "deeds" accord with the ideology. You don't know that until you have looked at the ideology, and what it says a "good" person does.

But if you're totally sold on saying that what the majority of Muslims actually believe and practice is the determining factor, then you could have a look at this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg Then maybe you can tell me again about those billions of Muslims you claim to know that are just getting on with life... :wink:
Ask Trump when he prays to the baby Jesus if he's just getting on, or is he responding to rabid rightard Xians, who want to build a wall against other "brother Xians".

ALL the muslims I know, though not many, are much the same as anyone else in the UK, keen to keep the family respect, but reluctant to waste time at the Mosque. And so it is for most, who cherry picking the best bits that work in their social and economic sphere chose not to follow bellicose advise.

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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:20 pm
Ask Trump when he prays to the baby Jesus if he's just getting on, or is he responding to rabid rightard Xians, who want to build a wall against other "brother Xians".
You really don't know the difference between a Christian and someone who only says they are? Is it your supposition that people always tell the truth? Or are you buying into the "Christian country" definition -- as in, everyone who lives between parallel X and parallel Y is automatically a "Christian"? I can't tell which error you're making, but you're certainly making one. And yet, you claim the right test is their actions -- which is precisely how Christ Himself taught his followers to distinguish between the two.

What's your incentive for calling for the right test in regard to telling the authenticity of someone's profession of faith -- in every case but the case of Christians? :shock:
ALL the muslims I know, though not many...

Yep, I believe that. I've lived in cultures in which Islam is powerful. It's quite a different beast over there, I can assure you.

And I can tell you didn't watch the video. If you did, you'd know that your live-and-let-live neighbour down the street is not necessarily living the normal, doctrinal form of Islam -- or even the predominant one worldwide. In other words, you were mistaking your own local, personal experience for the global truth.

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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:33 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:25 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:20 pm
Ask Trump when he prays to the baby Jesus if he's just getting on, or is he responding to rabid rightard Xians, who want to build a wall against other "brother Xians".
You really don't know the difference between a Christian and someone who only says they are?
And you don't know the difference between a handful of terrorists and 1.8 billion Muslims, who are peaceful.

I just by deeds. The Christian USA is responsible for millions of deaths.

Rather than moan about terrorists extremists you might find it more fruitful to look more closely at the Wahhabist universities, funded by "our friends" in Saudi-Arabia who are spreading the extremists version of Islam which has motivated many of loon in Afghanistan and Europe. Let's face it the Bin Laden's are the special friends of the USA, and it is almost as if they are conspiring to destailize the ME deliberately, there being so much to benefit from weapons sales.

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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:51 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:33 pm
And you don't know the difference between a handful of terrorists and 1.8 billion Muslims, who are peaceful.
Watch the video. Seriously. Some facts will really, really help you.
I ju[dge] by deeds. The Christian USA is responsible for millions of deaths.
So the USA is all "Christian," just because somebody told you it was, and regardless of what they do to the contrary. And so are all it's politicians and soldiers, because...reasons. :shock:

But Islamists are NOT Islamic, because even though they say they are, and even though they do what the Koran tells them to do, they're not, because they don't look to you like the (as you said, "few") Islamists you personally know...because, reasons. :shock:

Believe me, I'm trying to see that in any way I can as consistent and rational; but I'm having a bit of trouble.

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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:45 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:15 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:10 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:44 pm
Judge not by word but by deed.

Most Muslims are simply born into "Islam".
Whilst I agree that Islam is violent, it is less so than Judaism, and most Christians are perfectly happy to take their instructions from the Old Testament sadly.

The Christian right in the US, in particular, seem very keen on vengeance and taking an eye for and eye (as well as a Ib of flesh for good measure).

Religions are so full of contradictions it does not really matter what the hell it says on the Holy Books. People are so full of contradictions, it does not matter what it says in the Holy Books. People do what they want and use the Scripture to justify their needs.
The Old Testament is so violent that it is easy enough to pick and choose something relevant.
In WWI, both sides were fighting for God.

It's Deeds not words.
So if words do not matter, then your words don't matter as well?
As an individual keeping to my own words, yes they do.
But for a book and a cannon of work written by dead men, and supposedly "guiding" the actions of 1.8 billion people - quite a different story.
So deeds and words matter? Not just one or the other?

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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:04 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:51 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:33 pm
And you don't know the difference between a handful of terrorists and 1.8 billion Muslims, who are peaceful.
Watch the video. Seriously. Some facts will really, really help you.
I ju[dge] by deeds. The Christian USA is responsible for millions of deaths.
So the USA is all "Christian," just because somebody told you it was, and regardless of what they do to the contrary. And so are all it's politicians and soldiers, because...reasons. :shock:

But Islamists are NOT Islamic, because even though they say they are, and even though they do what the Koran tells them to do, they're not, because they don't look to you like the (as you said, "few") Islamists you personally know...because, reasons. :shock:

Believe me, I'm trying to see that in any way I can as consistent and rational; but I'm having a bit of trouble.
Look up "No True Scotsman Fallacy".

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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Sculptor » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:05 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:45 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:15 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:10 pm

So if words do not matter, then your words don't matter as well?
As an individual keeping to my own words, yes they do.
But for a book and a cannon of work written by dead men, and supposedly "guiding" the actions of 1.8 billion people - quite a different story.
So deeds and words matter? Not just one or the other?
Try and READ. And engage your brain if you have one.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:17 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:04 pm
Look up "No True Scotsman Fallacy".
I know what it is. But it's not relevant here. It's not even always relevant to Scotsmen. For example, it is true to say, "No true Scotsman fails to be associated with Scotland in some way." It's also true to say, "No true Scotsman is a woman." When the criterion is correct, there is no such fallacy.

So I'm asking what your criterion is for deciding whether someone is a "true" Islamist.

Apparently, creed doesn't count to you. What the Koran says is not relevant. What they say about themselves doesn't count. Majority conduct isn't it. Apparently, the only thing that makes someone "truly" Islamic, in your world, is that they seem to behave like you suppose your neighbours do. And as for Christians, you have no criterion at all, it seems...save that they have to live in the US, and all of those are included by that mere fact.

You can see why I'm finding your lone criterion a little questionable, to say the very least.

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Eodnhoj7
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Is the Critique of Islam Islamophobic?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:15 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:05 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:45 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:15 pm

As an individual keeping to my own words, yes they do.
But for a book and a cannon of work written by dead men, and supposedly "guiding" the actions of 1.8 billion people - quite a different story.
So deeds and words matter? Not just one or the other?
Try and READ. And engage your brain if you have one.
Good, so words do matter...I can't see your deeds from here.

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