The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Veritas Aequitas
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The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:05 am

The definitions of God
A list of definitions of God are listed in here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Early on, theists started with simple definition of God, e.g. god is in the trees, seas, etc., the bearded man in the sky, see below;

Image

Then as human evolves more intelligently, [a]theist began to question the reality of God against every definition that theists can come up with until they are pushed into the corner and no further thus ending up with the ontological God.

Theists will argue among themselves with their own definitions of God, but the most intelligent theists will end up with the ultimate definition of God, i.e. the ontological God.

By the principles of the Normal Distribution one can expect of a small percentile of all theists would have very high intelligence [not necessary wisdom].

The more sophisticated and intelligent theists were those like St. Anselm, Descartes, Leibniz and others who came up with the idea of the ontological God, example.
  • St. Anselm;
    "being than which no greater can be conceived".
    -wiki

    Descartes;
    He suggested that the concept of God is that of a supremely perfect being, holding all perfections. He seems to have assumed that existence is a predicate of a perfection.
    -wiki
Kant has provided arguments on how every definition of God is reducible to the ontological God and that is grounded on human evolution and psychology based on the 'one-up' impulse in all humans.
In order to stop the infinite regression inevitable in a 'one-up' impulse, theists will end up with the ontological God.

The ultimate definition of God, is that of the ontological God.

Views?

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:28 am

Here are some notes to support my point re Kant mentioned above.

Kant argued there are only 3 main groups of the argument for God, i.e.
  • The first proof is the Physico-Theological,
    the second the Cosmological,
    the third the Ontological.
    There are, and there can be, no others.
    A591 B619
Kant explained the first proof has to fall back to the ontological
  • I therefore maintain that the physico-theological proof can never by itself establish the Existence of a Supreme Being, but must always fall back upon the ontological argument to make good its deficiency.
    A625 B653
Kant also argued the Cosmological argument is also reducible to the ontological argument.
  • Thus the physico-theological proof of the Existence of an Original or Supreme Being rests upon the cosmological proof, and the cosmological upon the ontological.
    A630 B658
From A592 B620 to A630 B658, Kant demonstrated it is impossible to prove all the above basis of God, i.e. the Physico-Theological, the Cosmological and the ultimate Ontological God.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:42 am

A perfect ontological God can certainly be perceived to exist but could such a God exist in reality
Because such a being could not be separate from reality rather part of it just like everything else

Anything perfect can be conceived by the mind but it cannot be translated to reality because it imposes restrictions
Something as simple as a perfect circle cannot exist in reality and a perfect God is far more complex by comparison

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:21 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:05 am
The definitions of God
A list of definitions of God are listed in here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Early on, theists started with simple definition of God, e.g. god is in the trees, seas, etc., the bearded man in the sky, see below;

Image

Then as human evolves more intelligently, [a]theist began to question the reality of God against every definition that theists can come up with until they are pushed into the corner and no further thus ending up with the ontological God.

Theists will argue among themselves with their own definitions of God, but the most intelligent theists will end up with the ultimate definition of God, i.e. the ontological God.

By the principles of the Normal Distribution one can expect of a small percentile of all theists would have very high intelligence [not necessary wisdom].

The more sophisticated and intelligent theists were those like St. Anselm, Descartes, Leibniz and others who came up with the idea of the ontological God, example.
  • St. Anselm;
    "being than which no greater can be conceived".
    -wiki

    Descartes;
    He suggested that the concept of God is that of a supremely perfect being, holding all perfections. He seems to have assumed that existence is a predicate of a perfection.
    -wiki
Kant has provided arguments on how every definition of God is reducible to the ontological God and that is grounded on human evolution and psychology based on the 'one-up' impulse in all humans.
In order to stop the infinite regression inevitable in a 'one-up' impulse, theists will end up with the ontological God.

The ultimate definition of God, is that of the ontological God.

Views?
• defines God then...prove this wrong or non existent.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:22 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:42 am
A perfect ontological God can certainly be perceived to exist but could such a God exist in reality
Because such a being could not be separate from reality rather part of it just like everything else

Anything perfect can be conceived by the mind but it cannot be translated to reality because it imposes restrictions
Something as simple as a perfect circle cannot exist in reality and a perfect God is far more complex by comparison
There is no perfect definition of perfect unless all being, relative to nothingness, is perfect.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:22 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:21 am
• defines God then...prove this wrong or non existent.
Are you that blind?
I have provided the definition of God defined by St. Anselm and Descartes in the OP.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:29 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:42 am
A perfect ontological God can certainly be perceived to exist but could such a God exist in reality
Because such a being could not be separate from reality rather part of it just like everything else

Anything perfect can be conceived by the mind but it cannot be translated to reality because it imposes restrictions
Something as simple as a perfect circle cannot exist in reality and a perfect God is far more complex by comparison
I would want to be more specific with the term 'perceived' or even 'conceived'.
Whatever is perceived as perception cannot be as generally accepted within this definition;
  • Perception (from the Latin perceptio) is the organization, identification, and interpretation of sensory information in order to represent and understand the presented information, or the environment.
    -wiki
Thus I would state,
a perfect ontological god can only be thought of a philosophical idea [in the Plato' sense].

Idea is this perspective refer to a thought that is empty of any empirical and experiential elements.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:35 am

The question in the OP is,
is there a definition of a God that is more ultimate than the ontological God as defined by St. Anselm, Descartes and the likes.

The modern version of the ontological god is the "maximally great being" which is the same as the ontological ideas of St. Anselm and Descartes.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:03 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:29 am
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:42 am
A perfect ontological God can certainly be perceived to exist but could such a God exist in reality
Because such a being could not be separate from reality rather part of it just like everything else

Anything perfect can be conceived by the mind but it cannot be translated to reality because it imposes restrictions
Something as simple as a perfect circle cannot exist in reality and a perfect God is far more complex by comparison
I would want to be more specific with the term 'perceived' or even 'conceived'.
Whatever is perceived as perception cannot be as generally accepted within this definition;
  • Perception (from the Latin perceptio) is the organization, identification, and interpretation of sensory information in order to represent and understand the presented information, or the environment.
    -wiki
Thus I would state,
a perfect ontological god can only be thought of a philosophical idea [in the Plato' sense].

Idea is this perspective refer to a thought that is empty of any empirical and experiential elements.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....

I get the feeling you want to cuddle and hold hands....

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:17 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:03 am
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....

I get the feeling you want to cuddle and hold hands....
As usual no proper arguments.
You are intellectually bankrupt and the best you can do is rant.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:26 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:22 am

I have provided the definition of God defined by St. Anselm and Descartes in the OP.
St. Anselm and Descartes definition's of God is not VA's God.

Define VA's God or no God according to VA's first person account, in your own words as only you see this.(Stop quoting what others say) Try the VA approach instead.

You keep eluding the 'define who knows' there is no God debate don't you?

You also elude the define the theist debate as well. What is a 'theist'? does a 'theist' exist as a possibility to be real? but a God does not?

Explain why you keep eluding the hard question presented to you?

Do you think people on this forum don't see how you try to cover up your own 'not-knowing ' by using info bombing and bamboozle techniques. You're ''are you blind'' comments are meaningless, no we are not blind, we see ....do you? if you do then define theGod or No God that you see?

.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:29 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:17 am
You are intellectually bankrupt and the best you can do is rant.
And you are the biggest ranting idiot that ever lived.

He who knows everything except himself, lacks everything.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:30 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:35 am
The question in the OP is,
is there a definition of a God that is more ultimate than the ontological God as defined by St. Anselm, Descartes and the likes.

The modern version of the ontological god is the "maximally great being" which is the same as the ontological ideas of St. Anselm and Descartes.
What the fuck is an ontological God in your own words please.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:38 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:29 am

Thus I would state,
a perfect ontological god can only be thought of a philosophical idea [in the Plato' sense].

Idea is this perspective refer to a thought that is empty of any empirical and experiential elements.
Wow, who'd have thunked that? Thoughts can only add up in the brain thinking them, they don't exist independent of that brain. Who's braining? The normal persons field of understanding does not go beyond his own body.

Perhaps that's what God is? Gosh, the Unbearable Lightness of Being.

Can you see light? no you are light, can you see who is seeing? no you are the seeing that cannot be seen...see?

.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Ontological God is the Ultimate God.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:48 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:17 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:03 am
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....

I get the feeling you want to cuddle and hold hands....
As usual no proper arguments.
You are intellectually bankrupt and the best you can do is rant.
Thanks for the rant.

Negate or disprove "all" without using an argument subject to a fallacy....or zombie parasites.

Do you still believe in those by the way? Your transcendental illusion younwhere pushing on everyone?

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