Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Veritas Aequitas
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Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:03 am

Age wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:26 am
Also, NOTE that I have ALREADY provided the EVIDENCE for the PERFECT empirical GOD ALREADY.
Show your evidence and proof in this thread.

Others can contribute their views.

Age
Posts: 3239
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Age » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:00 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:03 am
Age wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:26 am
Also, NOTE that I have ALREADY provided the EVIDENCE for the PERFECT empirical GOD ALREADY.
Show your evidence and proof in this thread.

Others can contribute their views.
As I have said previously; The Universe, Itself.

How much more empirical evidence do you NEED?

If thee Universe, Itself, does NOT provide enough for you to observe and experience, then I do NOT know what else could.

And, if you do NOT see absolute PERFECTION in the actual living thing as the Universe, Itself, which has created 'you' and EVERY thing else, then you are FREE to observe and experience any thing, anyway you like.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 2675
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am

Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:00 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:03 am
Age wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:26 am
Also, NOTE that I have ALREADY provided the EVIDENCE for the PERFECT empirical GOD ALREADY.
Show your evidence and proof in this thread.

Others can contribute their views.
As I have said previously; The Universe, Itself.

How much more empirical evidence do you NEED?

If thee Universe, Itself, does NOT provide enough for you to observe and experience, then I do NOT know what else could.

And, if you do NOT see absolute PERFECTION in the actual living thing as the Universe, Itself, which has created 'you' and EVERY thing else, then you are FREE to observe and experience any thing, anyway you like.
The empirical is always conditioned upon human experience.
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Humans are never perfect.
Whatever is conditioned upon human experience cannot be perfect.

In addition;
It is NEVER possible to know the WHOLE Universe empirically.
Does the WHOLE Universe has a boundary?
Point is when we consider the universe empirically we will encounter infinite regression, thus no absolute perfection.

What is real is empirical + rationality + philosophical critical thinking.

The most you can is to THINK of an absolute perfect Universe as an idea which cannot be empirically based.
Since an absolute perfect Universe cannot be empirically based, it cannot be real or possibly real.

Age
Posts: 3239
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Age » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:16 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:00 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:03 am


Show your evidence and proof in this thread.

Others can contribute their views.
As I have said previously; The Universe, Itself.

How much more empirical evidence do you NEED?

If thee Universe, Itself, does NOT provide enough for you to observe and experience, then I do NOT know what else could.

And, if you do NOT see absolute PERFECTION in the actual living thing as the Universe, Itself, which has created 'you' and EVERY thing else, then you are FREE to observe and experience any thing, anyway you like.
The empirical is always conditioned upon human experience.
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Humans are never perfect.

Whatever is conditioned upon human experience cannot be perfect.
So, to you, a perfect empirical Universe could NEVER exist because 'you', human beings, experience things.

Well that is one way to LOOK AT and SEE things. But, to me, it is a very irrational and extremely illogical way to LOOK AT and SEE things.

And, if this is HOW you SEE things, then so be it.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
In addition;
It is NEVER possible to know the WHOLE Universe empirically.
Who has even suggest that it was, when this is written, to know the WHOLE Universe?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Does the WHOLE Universe has a boundary?
No.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Point is when we consider the universe empirically we will encounter infinite regression, thus no absolute perfection.
That is what you say, and may well be what you do do, and thus helps in explaining WHY you are so stuck as you are.

When I consider the Universe "empirically" I encounter KNOWING, without infinite regression, AND I also observe absolute PERFECTION.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
What is real is empirical + rationality + philosophical critical thinking.

The most you can is to THINK of an absolute perfect Universe as an idea which cannot be empirically based.
This is just what you BELIEVE is true, and IS only what you can do.

But what I do actually, which is way beyond what you believe is true, I EXPERIENCE and OBSERVE an absolutely PERFECT Universe, IN CREATION, which by the way has ALREADY, empirically, been proven to be True.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Since an absolute perfect Universe cannot be empirically based, it cannot be real or possibly real.
Again, this is just your confirmation biases allowing you to only see what you have ALREADY BELIEVED is true. You 'try to' formulate arguments to support what you already BELIEVE is true, instead of just LOOKING AT what is actually True AND Real.

Your illogical, invalid and unsound argument:

P1. The empirical is "always" conditioned upon human experience.
P2. Humans are never perfect.
C. Whatever is conditioned upon human experience cannot be perfect.

To me, your argument is just FALSE and WRONG.

To me, your;

P1. The 'empirical' is NOT "always conditioned upon human experience", nor even 'any time' conditioned upon human experience at all. 'Empirical' is just what is based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. So, what it IS, which is verified from observation and experience as being true and real, is empirical, and not just what is thought (to be true). It is 'thought', theory or pure logic, itself, which is conditioned upon human experience, and NOT the 'empirical'. Thought is conditioned upon human experience. Empirical is NOT conditioned upon human experience. Of course, ALL observations AND experiences come from human beings, and is thus conditioned, in some way, by the human being. This conditioning is caused by the previous pre-existing 'thoughts', and this goes without saying, but what is "conditioned" by 'you', human beings, does NOT take away any PERFECTION from the very thing that is being observed AND experienced, by 'you', human beings. When things are LOOKED AT from the Truly OPEN Mind, and NOT from the already conditioned brain, then the actual Truth of things is observed and SEEN. Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves. The Universe, which is made up of physical things, IS PERFECTION Itself.

P2. I agree wholeheartedly. 'you', human beings, are never perfect.

C. Whatever is conditioned by human beings is the result of previous human experiences. The outcome of human experience is just 'thoughts'. Thoughts, themselves, are NOT perfect. However, the Universe, Itself, is NOT conditioned upon human experience. The Universe, Itself, is a thing of Its own Self, It is NOT conditioned upon human beings and their experiences. A perception of the Universe, Itself, is what is conditioned, upon human experiences.

A Universe is ALREADY obviously based on physical things, this is what the Universe is actually based upon or made up of, which can be observed AND experienced, and therefore the Universe is ALREADY proven True empirically.

Now, absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer, so if you observe (and experience) a non perfect Universe, then so be it.

But some, like me, observe (and experience) a Truly PERFECT Universe. A Universe, EXACTLY just like God, which creates EVERY thing.

This absolute PERFECT Universe, which I observe, experience, SEE and UNDERSTAND, is OBVIOUSLY 'empirically based', and so IS real, and NOT just 'possibly real'.

But you are FREE to see whatever it is that you WANT to see.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 2675
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am

Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:16 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:00 am


As I have said previously; The Universe, Itself.

How much more empirical evidence do you NEED?

If thee Universe, Itself, does NOT provide enough for you to observe and experience, then I do NOT know what else could.

And, if you do NOT see absolute PERFECTION in the actual living thing as the Universe, Itself, which has created 'you' and EVERY thing else, then you are FREE to observe and experience any thing, anyway you like.
The empirical is always conditioned upon human experience.
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Humans are never perfect.

Whatever is conditioned upon human experience cannot be perfect.
So, to you, a perfect empirical Universe could NEVER exist because 'you', human beings, experience things.

Well that is one way to LOOK AT and SEE things. But, to me, it is a very irrational and extremely illogical way to LOOK AT and SEE things.

And, if this is HOW you SEE things, then so be it.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
In addition;
It is NEVER possible to know the WHOLE Universe empirically.
Who has even suggest that it was, when this is written, to know the WHOLE Universe?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Does the WHOLE Universe has a boundary?
No.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Point is when we consider the universe empirically we will encounter infinite regression, thus no absolute perfection.
That is what you say, and may well be what you do do, and thus helps in explaining WHY you are so stuck as you are.

When I consider the Universe "empirically" I encounter KNOWING, without infinite regression, AND I also observe absolute PERFECTION.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
What is real is empirical + rationality + philosophical critical thinking.

The most you can is to THINK of an absolute perfect Universe as an idea which cannot be empirically based.
This is just what you BELIEVE is true, and IS only what you can do.

But what I do actually, which is way beyond what you believe is true, I EXPERIENCE and OBSERVE an absolutely PERFECT Universe, IN CREATION, which by the way has ALREADY, empirically, been proven to be True.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Since an absolute perfect Universe cannot be empirically based, it cannot be real or possibly real.
Again, this is just your confirmation biases allowing you to only see what you have ALREADY BELIEVED is true. You 'try to' formulate arguments to support what you already BELIEVE is true, instead of just LOOKING AT what is actually True AND Real.

Your illogical, invalid and unsound argument:

P1. The empirical is "always" conditioned upon human experience.
P2. Humans are never perfect.
C. Whatever is conditioned upon human experience cannot be perfect.

To me, your argument is just FALSE and WRONG.

To me, your;

P1. The 'empirical' is NOT "always conditioned upon human experience", nor even 'any time' conditioned upon human experience at all. 'Empirical' is just what is based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. So, what it IS, which is verified from observation and experience as being true and real, is empirical, and not just what is thought (to be true). It is 'thought', theory or pure logic, itself, which is conditioned upon human experience, and NOT the 'empirical'. Thought is conditioned upon human experience. Empirical is NOT conditioned upon human experience. Of course, ALL observations AND experiences come from human beings, and is thus conditioned, in some way, by the human being. This conditioning is caused by the previous pre-existing 'thoughts', and this goes without saying, but what is "conditioned" by 'you', human beings, does NOT take away any PERFECTION from the very thing that is being observed AND experienced, by 'you', human beings. When things are LOOKED AT from the Truly OPEN Mind, and NOT from the already conditioned brain, then the actual Truth of things is observed and SEEN. Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves. The Universe, which is made up of physical things, IS PERFECTION Itself.

P2. I agree wholeheartedly. 'you', human beings, are never perfect.

C. Whatever is conditioned by human beings is the result of previous human experiences. The outcome of human experience is just 'thoughts'. Thoughts, themselves, are NOT perfect. However, the Universe, Itself, is NOT conditioned upon human experience. The Universe, Itself, is a thing of Its own Self, It is NOT conditioned upon human beings and their experiences. A perception of the Universe, Itself, is what is conditioned, upon human experiences.

A Universe is ALREADY obviously based on physical things, this is what the Universe is actually based upon or made up of, which can be observed AND experienced, and therefore the Universe is ALREADY proven True empirically.

Now, absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer, so if you observe (and experience) a non perfect Universe, then so be it.

But some, like me, observe (and experience) a Truly PERFECT Universe. A Universe, EXACTLY just like God, which creates EVERY thing.

This absolute PERFECT Universe, which I observe, experience, SEE and UNDERSTAND, is OBVIOUSLY 'empirically based', and so IS real, and NOT just 'possibly real'.

But you are FREE to see whatever it is that you WANT to see.
Re P1

I have already present to you in my earlier post on 'what is empirical' from the philosophical, scientific and general perspective;
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Your own self-definition of 'empirical' is not in line with the norm and not acceptable.
When things are LOOKED AT from the Truly OPEN Mind, and NOT from the already conditioned brain, then the actual Truth of things is observed and SEEN. Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves. The Universe, which is made up of physical things, IS PERFECTION Itself.
Point is the above has no basis of justification at all.
A schizophrenic or mental case can make the same claim as above and many of the mental-cases has done so.
Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves.
You are referring to Plato's forms, ideas and universals as thing-in-itself.
There are no real thing-in-itself.
A thing-in-itself is an transcendental illusion.

Note my argument there is no such thing as a perfect circle [drawn] or in a marble.
Show me a perfect marble or any physical thing-in-itself that is perfect.
Any marble no matter how perfect it is claimed is in reality imperfect which can easily be shown when the marble surface is viewed with a electron's microscope.

Age
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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Age » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:16 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am

The empirical is always conditioned upon human experience.
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Humans are never perfect.

Whatever is conditioned upon human experience cannot be perfect.
So, to you, a perfect empirical Universe could NEVER exist because 'you', human beings, experience things.

Well that is one way to LOOK AT and SEE things. But, to me, it is a very irrational and extremely illogical way to LOOK AT and SEE things.

And, if this is HOW you SEE things, then so be it.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
In addition;
It is NEVER possible to know the WHOLE Universe empirically.
Who has even suggest that it was, when this is written, to know the WHOLE Universe?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Does the WHOLE Universe has a boundary?
No.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Point is when we consider the universe empirically we will encounter infinite regression, thus no absolute perfection.
That is what you say, and may well be what you do do, and thus helps in explaining WHY you are so stuck as you are.

When I consider the Universe "empirically" I encounter KNOWING, without infinite regression, AND I also observe absolute PERFECTION.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
What is real is empirical + rationality + philosophical critical thinking.

The most you can is to THINK of an absolute perfect Universe as an idea which cannot be empirically based.
This is just what you BELIEVE is true, and IS only what you can do.

But what I do actually, which is way beyond what you believe is true, I EXPERIENCE and OBSERVE an absolutely PERFECT Universe, IN CREATION, which by the way has ALREADY, empirically, been proven to be True.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Since an absolute perfect Universe cannot be empirically based, it cannot be real or possibly real.
Again, this is just your confirmation biases allowing you to only see what you have ALREADY BELIEVED is true. You 'try to' formulate arguments to support what you already BELIEVE is true, instead of just LOOKING AT what is actually True AND Real.

Your illogical, invalid and unsound argument:

P1. The empirical is "always" conditioned upon human experience.
P2. Humans are never perfect.
C. Whatever is conditioned upon human experience cannot be perfect.

To me, your argument is just FALSE and WRONG.

To me, your;

P1. The 'empirical' is NOT "always conditioned upon human experience", nor even 'any time' conditioned upon human experience at all. 'Empirical' is just what is based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. So, what it IS, which is verified from observation and experience as being true and real, is empirical, and not just what is thought (to be true). It is 'thought', theory or pure logic, itself, which is conditioned upon human experience, and NOT the 'empirical'. Thought is conditioned upon human experience. Empirical is NOT conditioned upon human experience. Of course, ALL observations AND experiences come from human beings, and is thus conditioned, in some way, by the human being. This conditioning is caused by the previous pre-existing 'thoughts', and this goes without saying, but what is "conditioned" by 'you', human beings, does NOT take away any PERFECTION from the very thing that is being observed AND experienced, by 'you', human beings. When things are LOOKED AT from the Truly OPEN Mind, and NOT from the already conditioned brain, then the actual Truth of things is observed and SEEN. Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves. The Universe, which is made up of physical things, IS PERFECTION Itself.

P2. I agree wholeheartedly. 'you', human beings, are never perfect.

C. Whatever is conditioned by human beings is the result of previous human experiences. The outcome of human experience is just 'thoughts'. Thoughts, themselves, are NOT perfect. However, the Universe, Itself, is NOT conditioned upon human experience. The Universe, Itself, is a thing of Its own Self, It is NOT conditioned upon human beings and their experiences. A perception of the Universe, Itself, is what is conditioned, upon human experiences.

A Universe is ALREADY obviously based on physical things, this is what the Universe is actually based upon or made up of, which can be observed AND experienced, and therefore the Universe is ALREADY proven True empirically.

Now, absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer, so if you observe (and experience) a non perfect Universe, then so be it.

But some, like me, observe (and experience) a Truly PERFECT Universe. A Universe, EXACTLY just like God, which creates EVERY thing.

This absolute PERFECT Universe, which I observe, experience, SEE and UNDERSTAND, is OBVIOUSLY 'empirically based', and so IS real, and NOT just 'possibly real'.

But you are FREE to see whatever it is that you WANT to see.
Re P1

I have already present to you in my earlier post on 'what is empirical' from the philosophical, scientific and general perspective;
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Your own self-definition of 'empirical' is not in line with the norm and not acceptable.

You have obviously MISSED things again, or are purposely 'trying to' deflect and/or be deceptive.

YOUR definition you provided is for the two words 'empirical evidence'. Just because you bolded only the one word 'empirical' does not detract from this.

If you have copied the definition EXACTLY how it was provided to you, then we would not be saying that you could purposely 'trying to' be deceptive here.

Now, MY definition that I provided is for the one word 'empirical'.

Your usual, "Your own self-definition (of 'empirical') is not in line with the norm and not acceptable", quote is, besides being absolutely and stupidly incorrect, is a so CLOSED and BIASED CONFIRMED view and statement that just about could be possibly given.

You obviously MISSED what I was saying about how your version of 'empirical' being conditioned upon human experience is just a twisted and distorted way of SEEING the Truth of things. You have even distorted things from the DEFINITION that you, yourself, provided.

'Empirical evidence' is NOT just what you, alone, SEE and BELIEVE is true. 'Empirical evidence' is what can be PROVEN through observation and experience.

'PERFECTION' is a totally subjective viewpoint, and thus is NOT 'empirical evidence' at all.
When things are LOOKED AT from the Truly OPEN Mind, and NOT from the already conditioned brain, then the actual Truth of things is observed and SEEN. Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves. The Universe, which is made up of physical things, IS PERFECTION Itself.
Point is the above has no basis of justification at all.
lol

Is thee Truth that what I have said has "NO basis of justification at all" or that it just counters or opposes what you, yourself, say?

Point is 'you', veritas aequitas, are just about, literally, unbelievable.

The way that you can twist things around so much to suit your own BELIEFS is nearly unbelievable, to me. Your 'confirmation biases', however, provide a PERFECT example of how the brain works, from the BELIEF-system.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
A schizophrenic or mental case can make the same claim as above and many of the mental-cases has done so.
Once again, you are just doing what you do when you are STUCK.

Writing absolutely IDIOTIC and STUPID responses.

Also, it is getting very tiresome that you LOOK AT people and 'trying to' criticize them, instead of LOOKING AT the words, and critiquing them.

Why do you NOT just stay focused on the points AND counter them, if you can.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves.
You are referring to Plato's forms, ideas and universals as thing-in-itself.
There are no real thing-in-itself.
A thing-in-itself is an transcendental illusion.
I am NOT referring to any form at all.

I am just providing MY own views on things.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Note my argument there is no such thing as a perfect circle [drawn] or in a marble.
Who cares.

The title of this thread is; The Perfect Empirical God Exists.

If a perfect circle exists or not, has absolutely NOTHING to do with A PERFECT God existing or not.

The Universe, which, to me, is thee PERFECT God, OBVIOUSLY EXISTS.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Show me a perfect marble or any physical thing-in-itself that is perfect.
But you BELIEVE there is NOT one. So, there is NOTHING in the Universe that can SHOW you what you BELIEVE does NOT exist.

'you', veritas aequitas' are a PRIME EXAMPLE of one that is SO CLOSED.

You can NOT even SEE the Universe, which is HERE NOW in front of you, staring you in the face.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Any marble no matter how perfect it is claimed is in reality imperfect which can easily be shown when the marble surface is viewed with a electron's microscope.
Thee Universe no matter how imperfect It IS claimed to be, is in REALITY PERFECT, which can easily be shown when the Universe, Itself, is just viewed and observed from the Truly OPEN Mind.

By the way, how many people do you KNOW that claim that there is a PERFECT marble (or even circle)?

And IF there is even any, then WHY NOT discuss that WITH THEM.

How about you just stick to the thread title, and to the points I have GIVEN and SHOWN, which counter what you say and allege is true?

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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:30 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.
What or who is it that knows it's receiving the sensation of an empirical world of patterns, colour, behavior and all other data through experimentation?

.

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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:38 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Any marble no matter how perfect it is claimed is in reality imperfect which can easily be shown when the marble surface is viewed with a electron's microscope.
You are just stating the bloody obvious. It's like saying a mountain is a mole hill seen from far away, but at close range it's everest.

Imperfection can only be known in relation to it's opposite. Opposites have to exist in the same instant, one with the knowing.

There is no perfect nor imperfect in any concept known, for that which is KNOWN knows nothing of it's reality.

So that which seems imperfect is actually perfect as well.

.

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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:16 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The most you can is to THINK of an absolute perfect Universe as an idea which cannot be empirically based
Since an absolute perfect Universe cannot be empirically based it cannot be real or possibly real
The Universe that exists is absolute and perfect inasmuch as it is ALL THAT EXISTS
Anything which is defined as such has to by default be absolute and perfect because it cannot be anything else
This Universe therefore cannot be a non empirical idea as it already exists as a mind independent phenomenon
That is because its almost I4 billion years old whereas human beings have only existed for a mere I00 000 years

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 am

Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19 am
VA wrote: Re P1

I have already present to you in my earlier post on 'what is empirical' from the philosophical, scientific and general perspective;
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Your own self-definition of 'empirical' is not in line with the norm and not acceptable.

You have obviously MISSED things again, or are purposely 'trying to' deflect and/or be deceptive.

YOUR definition you provided is for the two words 'empirical evidence'. Just because you bolded only the one word 'empirical' does not detract from this.

If you have copied the definition EXACTLY how it was provided to you, then we would not be saying that you could purposely 'trying to' be deceptive here.

Now, MY definition that I provided is for the one word 'empirical'.

Your usual, "Your own self-definition (of 'empirical') is not in line with the norm and not acceptable", quote is, besides being absolutely and stupidly incorrect, is a so CLOSED and BIASED CONFIRMED view and statement that just about could be possibly given.

You obviously MISSED what I was saying about how your version of 'empirical' being conditioned upon human experience is just a twisted and distorted way of SEEING the Truth of things. You have even distorted things from the DEFINITION that you, yourself, provided.

'Empirical evidence' is NOT just what you, alone, SEE and BELIEVE is true. 'Empirical evidence' is what can be PROVEN through observation and experience.

'PERFECTION' is a totally subjective viewpoint, and thus is NOT 'empirical evidence' at all.
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19 am
When things are LOOKED AT from the Truly OPEN Mind, and NOT from the already conditioned brain, then the actual Truth of things is observed and SEEN. Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves. The Universe, which is made up of physical things, IS PERFECTION Itself.
Point is the above has no basis of justification at all.
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19 am
lol

Is thee Truth that what I have said has "NO basis of justification at all" or that it just counters or opposes what you, yourself, say?

Point is 'you', veritas aequitas, are just about, literally, unbelievable.

The way that you can twist things around so much to suit your own BELIEFS is nearly unbelievable, to me. Your 'confirmation biases', however, provide a PERFECT example of how the brain works, from the BELIEF-system.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
A schizophrenic or mental case can make the same claim as above and many of the mental-cases has done so.
Once again, you are just doing what you do when you are STUCK.

Writing absolutely IDIOTIC and STUPID responses.

Also, it is getting very tiresome that you LOOK AT people and 'trying to' criticize them, instead of LOOKING AT the words, and critiquing them.

Why do you NOT just stay focused on the points AND counter them, if you can.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves.
You are referring to Plato's forms, ideas and universals as thing-in-itself.
There are no real thing-in-itself.
A thing-in-itself is an transcendental illusion.
I am NOT referring to any form at all.

I am just providing MY own views on things.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Note my argument there is no such thing as a perfect circle [drawn] or in a marble.
Who cares.

The title of this thread is; The Perfect Empirical God Exists.

If a perfect circle exists or not, has absolutely NOTHING to do with A PERFECT God existing or not.

The Universe, which, to me, is thee PERFECT God, OBVIOUSLY EXISTS.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Show me a perfect marble or any physical thing-in-itself that is perfect.
But you BELIEVE there is NOT one. So, there is NOTHING in the Universe that can SHOW you what you BELIEVE does NOT exist.

'you', veritas aequitas' are a PRIME EXAMPLE of one that is SO CLOSED.

You can NOT even SEE the Universe, which is HERE NOW in front of you, staring you in the face.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Any marble no matter how perfect it is claimed is in reality imperfect which can easily be shown when the marble surface is viewed with a electron's microscope.
Thee Universe no matter how imperfect It IS claimed to be, is in REALITY PERFECT, which can easily be shown when the Universe, Itself, is just viewed and observed from the Truly OPEN Mind.

By the way, how many people do you KNOW that claim that there is a PERFECT marble (or even circle)?

And IF there is even any, then WHY NOT discuss that WITH THEM.

How about you just stick to the thread title, and to the points I have GIVEN and SHOWN, which counter what you say and allege is true?
That the perfect empirical circle is impossible to exists are real is one example representing all empirical things.
I ask you to show me one empirical thing that can be absolutely perfect.
The principle as I had explained above is;
No empirical thing can be absolutely perfect.
Whatever is empirical as real cannot be absolutely perfect.

Note my argument;
  • 1. Whatever is empirical as real cannot be absolutely perfect.
    2. God is an absolute perfect entity
    3. Therefore God cannot be empirically real.
You have given no justifications supported by evidence nor proof.
All you do is making a personal subjective claim which is similar to what the mentally ills are claiming.
How can such a claim be credible at all?

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:37 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:16 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The most you can is to THINK of an absolute perfect Universe as an idea which cannot be empirically based
Since an absolute perfect Universe cannot be empirically based it cannot be real or possibly real
The Universe that exists is absolute and perfect inasmuch as it is ALL THAT EXISTS
Anything which is defined as such has to by default be absolute and perfect because it cannot be anything else
This Universe therefore cannot be a non empirical idea as it already exists as a mind independent phenomenon.
That is because its almost I4 billion years old whereas human beings have only existed for a mere I00 000 years
Note the counter argument there is nothing that exists as a mind independent phenomenon.
This is is the philosophical anti-realists' views, e.g. Kant, Nietsche, later Wittgenstein, et.al.

It is true in one perspective that there were 'things' that existed since 14 billion years ago till human beings emerged.
We can say it is 'fact' the sun, moon and planet Earth pre-existed human beings.
But that fact is only one perspective which is a 'human' perspective, thus such a fact and reality is independent of human conditions.

It is a very subtle counter and the point is humans are co-creators of the Universe whilst humans are emergence. Thus in this subtle perspective there is no thing creating another.
One point is, it is impossible to take the human conditions out of the equation of 'what is reality'.

Other than that, here is Wittgenstein stated;
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.”
This meant one must totally shut up and not jump to conclusion there is a mind-independent universe.

Now, what I have been arguing is,
why human beings jumped to conclusion 'there is a mind-independent universe' is due to one's psychology.

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Eodnhoj7
Posts: 4964
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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:43 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 am
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:00 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:03 am


Show your evidence and proof in this thread.

Others can contribute their views.
As I have said previously; The Universe, Itself.

How much more empirical evidence do you NEED?

If thee Universe, Itself, does NOT provide enough for you to observe and experience, then I do NOT know what else could.

And, if you do NOT see absolute PERFECTION in the actual living thing as the Universe, Itself, which has created 'you' and EVERY thing else, then you are FREE to observe and experience any thing, anyway you like.
The empirical is always conditioned upon human experience.
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Humans are never perfect.
Whatever is conditioned upon human experience cannot be perfect.

In addition;
It is NEVER possible to know the WHOLE Universe empirically.
Does the WHOLE Universe has a boundary?
Point is when we consider the universe empirically we will encounter infinite regression, thus no absolute perfection.

What is real is empirical + rationality + philosophical critical thinking.

The most you can is to THINK of an absolute perfect Universe as an idea which cannot be empirically based.
Since an absolute perfect Universe cannot be empirically based, it cannot be real or possibly real.
If humans are never perfect, then your argument cannot be perfect...nor science, reason or understanding.

All is proof of God as proof is All.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:44 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:37 am
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:16 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The most you can is to THINK of an absolute perfect Universe as an idea which cannot be empirically based
Since an absolute perfect Universe cannot be empirically based it cannot be real or possibly real
The Universe that exists is absolute and perfect inasmuch as it is ALL THAT EXISTS
Anything which is defined as such has to by default be absolute and perfect because it cannot be anything else
This Universe therefore cannot be a non empirical idea as it already exists as a mind independent phenomenon.
That is because its almost I4 billion years old whereas human beings have only existed for a mere I00 000 years
Note the counter argument there is nothing that exists as a mind independent phenomenon.
This is is the philosophical anti-realists' views, e.g. Kant, Nietsche, later Wittgenstein, et.al.

It is true in one perspective that there were 'things' that existed since 14 billion years ago till human beings emerged.
We can say it is 'fact' the sun, moon and planet Earth pre-existed human beings.
But that fact is only one perspective which is a 'human' perspective, thus such a fact and reality is independent of human conditions.

It is a very subtle counter and the point is humans are co-creators of the Universe whilst humans are emergence. Thus in this subtle perspective there is no thing creating another.
One point is, it is impossible to take the human conditions out of the equation of 'what is reality'.

Other than that, here is Wittgenstein stated;
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.”
This meant one must totally shut up and not jump to conclusion there is a mind-independent universe.

Now, what I have been arguing is,
why human beings jumped to conclusion 'there is a mind-independent universe' is due to one's psychology.
"Where one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

Then shut up hypocrite.

surreptitious57
Posts: 3517
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:29 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
It is a very subtle counter and the point is humans are co creators of the Universe whilst humans are emergence
One point is it is impossible to take the human conditions out of the equation of what is reality

why human beings jumped to the conclusion there is a mind independent universe is due to ones psychology
While human beings are a part of observable reality they are not at all responsible for its creation
A mind dependent Universe is the one that is psychologically motivated not a mind independent one
There is no scientific reason as to why human beings were responsible for the creation of the Universe

Biology cannot have come before chemistry or physics because organisms are more complex than objects
So physics and chemistry had to first create the dead stars that contain the elements we are all made from

Age
Posts: 3239
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Re: Age: The Perfect Empirical God Exists

Post by Age » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:36 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 am
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19 am
VA wrote: Re P1

I have already present to you in my earlier post on 'what is empirical' from the philosophical, scientific and general perspective;
  • Empirical evidence is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.[1] The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
Your own self-definition of 'empirical' is not in line with the norm and not acceptable.

You have obviously MISSED things again, or are purposely 'trying to' deflect and/or be deceptive.

YOUR definition you provided is for the two words 'empirical evidence'. Just because you bolded only the one word 'empirical' does not detract from this.

If you have copied the definition EXACTLY how it was provided to you, then we would not be saying that you could purposely 'trying to' be deceptive here.

Now, MY definition that I provided is for the one word 'empirical'.

Your usual, "Your own self-definition (of 'empirical') is not in line with the norm and not acceptable", quote is, besides being absolutely and stupidly incorrect, is a so CLOSED and BIASED CONFIRMED view and statement that just about could be possibly given.

You obviously MISSED what I was saying about how your version of 'empirical' being conditioned upon human experience is just a twisted and distorted way of SEEING the Truth of things. You have even distorted things from the DEFINITION that you, yourself, provided.

'Empirical evidence' is NOT just what you, alone, SEE and BELIEVE is true. 'Empirical evidence' is what can be PROVEN through observation and experience.

'PERFECTION' is a totally subjective viewpoint, and thus is NOT 'empirical evidence' at all.
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19 am
When things are LOOKED AT from the Truly OPEN Mind, and NOT from the already conditioned brain, then the actual Truth of things is observed and SEEN. Physical things, in and of themselves, are PERFECTION, themselves. The Universe, which is made up of physical things, IS PERFECTION Itself.
Point is the above has no basis of justification at all.
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19 am
lol

Is thee Truth that what I have said has "NO basis of justification at all" or that it just counters or opposes what you, yourself, say?

Point is 'you', veritas aequitas, are just about, literally, unbelievable.

The way that you can twist things around so much to suit your own BELIEFS is nearly unbelievable, to me. Your 'confirmation biases', however, provide a PERFECT example of how the brain works, from the BELIEF-system.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
A schizophrenic or mental case can make the same claim as above and many of the mental-cases has done so.
Once again, you are just doing what you do when you are STUCK.

Writing absolutely IDIOTIC and STUPID responses.

Also, it is getting very tiresome that you LOOK AT people and 'trying to' criticize them, instead of LOOKING AT the words, and critiquing them.

Why do you NOT just stay focused on the points AND counter them, if you can.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
You are referring to Plato's forms, ideas and universals as thing-in-itself.
There are no real thing-in-itself.
A thing-in-itself is an transcendental illusion.
I am NOT referring to any form at all.

I am just providing MY own views on things.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Note my argument there is no such thing as a perfect circle [drawn] or in a marble.
Who cares.

The title of this thread is; The Perfect Empirical God Exists.

If a perfect circle exists or not, has absolutely NOTHING to do with A PERFECT God existing or not.

The Universe, which, to me, is thee PERFECT God, OBVIOUSLY EXISTS.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Show me a perfect marble or any physical thing-in-itself that is perfect.
But you BELIEVE there is NOT one. So, there is NOTHING in the Universe that can SHOW you what you BELIEVE does NOT exist.

'you', veritas aequitas' are a PRIME EXAMPLE of one that is SO CLOSED.

You can NOT even SEE the Universe, which is HERE NOW in front of you, staring you in the face.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am
Any marble no matter how perfect it is claimed is in reality imperfect which can easily be shown when the marble surface is viewed with a electron's microscope.
Thee Universe no matter how imperfect It IS claimed to be, is in REALITY PERFECT, which can easily be shown when the Universe, Itself, is just viewed and observed from the Truly OPEN Mind.

By the way, how many people do you KNOW that claim that there is a PERFECT marble (or even circle)?

And IF there is even any, then WHY NOT discuss that WITH THEM.

How about you just stick to the thread title, and to the points I have GIVEN and SHOWN, which counter what you say and allege is true?
That the perfect empirical circle is impossible to exists are real is one example representing all empirical things.
Are you joking?

By your, so called, "logic" here; That the unicorn is impossible to exist are real is one example representing all empirical things. This is beyond logic. This is just plain ridiculousness. Unless of course you mean some other thing?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 am
I ask you to show me one empirical thing that can be absolutely perfect.
And I have SHOWN you one thing. But you will NOT LOOK AT It.

That is; Thee Universe.

How many times do I have to tell you.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 am
The principle as I had explained above is;
No empirical thing can be absolutely perfect.
Whatever is empirical as real cannot be absolutely perfect.
This is invalid, unsound, irrational, illogical, and is also probably close to being perfectly circular. That is; "No empirical thing can be absolutely perfect BECAUSE and SO whatever is empirical as real can not be absolutely perfect".

I would say that if that is NOT a perfect circle, then it is close enough to being one. Now, that we have finished with the absolutely absurd, let us LOOK AT this even further. "No empirical thing can be absolutely perfect" is ONLY your view and BELIEF. It is NOT an actual unambiguous, irrefutable fact.

If you do NOT see the Universe, Itself, as being absolute AND perfect, then so be it. But just because you do not see It that way, then that does NOT mean that it is not absolute AND perfect.

Also, what do you mean by; 'empirical thing'? Do you just mean a 'physical thing'?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 am
Note my argument;
  • 1. Whatever is empirical as real cannot be absolutely perfect.
    2. God is an absolute perfect entity
    3. Therefore God cannot be empirically real.
I am getting VERY SICK AND TIRED of "noting your argument", AND also getting very sick and tired of THEN having to explain to you, once again, that it is NOT a 'sound AND valid argument'.

Note when you formulate a 'sound AND valid argument', then I want to SEE it, okay?

Until then all you are doing is expressing your views and BELIEFS only, and just calling them 'arguments'.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 am
You have given no justifications supported by evidence nor proof.
Yet some "other" people instantly SEE and also say that the Universe is absolute AND perfect.

But as I have ALREADY explained to you ENOUGH TIMES now. You are NOT capable of SEEING the justifications supported by evidence AND proof BECAUSE your OWN BELIEFS will NOT allow you to SEE the actual Truth of things.

Your OWN BELIEFS will only allow you to SEE those things that CONFIRM your already BIASES.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 am
All you do is making a personal subjective claim which is similar to what the mentally ills are claiming.
How can such a claim be credible at all?
LOL

The EXACT SAME thing is being said about 'YOU', veritas aequitas, are you at all AWARE OF THIS FACT?

The very thing that you accuse me of doing is the very thing that 'you' ARE DOING.

By the way 'personal subjective' claims CAN BE credible, IF, and WHEN, they are backed up with evidence AND proofs.

The PERFECT physical Universe/God exists. The evidence AND proof is right HERE right NOW. But if you can NOT see It and/or keep MISSING It, then there is NOTHING else I can do. If the Universe, Itself, is NOT big and ABSOLUTE enough for you to notice It AND accept It, then there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING else that would suffice. Also, If you do NOT see the PERFECTNESS of the Universe, Itself, then that is fine.

Obviously you are NEVER going to SEE some thing, which you BELIEVE does NOT exist.

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