Impact of male god on human genders

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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gaffo
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by gaffo » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:38 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:55 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:06 am
YHWH is male, His wife is Ashira.

you being a Christian should know of at least this per Judiasm.
I'm a monotheist, G. There is no "other" god.
if you say so.

El is YHWH's daddy

Baal is El's son also (as is Mot his daughter). and YHWH's brother/sister.

.............

but ok if you say El is YHWH and Baal/Mot are false gods - even less even, no gods, just dust icons................

fine, you believe whatever floats your boat, i know biblical history and know what i know.

peace to you Sir and thanks for reply.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by Immanuel Can » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:13 am

gaffo wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:38 am
fine, you believe whatever floats your boat, i know biblical history and know what i know.
Actually, that theory about God died about the same time as Sir James Frazer. It's neither current nor generally regarded now.
peace to you Sir and thanks for reply.
You are welcome. The same to you.

gaffo
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by gaffo » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:36 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:13 am
gaffo wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:38 am
fine, you believe whatever floats your boat, i know biblical history and know what i know.
Actually, that theory about God died about the same time as Sir James Frazer. It's neither current nor generally regarded now.
peace to you Sir and thanks for reply.
You are welcome. The same to you.
I welcome you civility and being a gentleman, as i try to be back.

if you'd like to talk about Biblical Archeology and the evolution of religions (such as the evoluton of Jesus as the most perfect man adopted by YHWH as his son to, Jesus born god's son but still a man, to Jesus as never born, and God....................i.e Mark/ Matt-Luke, and John).

or similar evolutions in Judiasm - 2 of each animal? or 7 of the clean and 2 of unclean? - order of creation animals firsl or plants?

etc...........

or if no interest in discussing such ok too.

just sayin i like the topic myself, and do quite a lot about it if i do say so myself (i do hate pride and do value humility) - so do not say i know about the matter out of ego, just out of objective fact.

others of course know more (i doubt on this forum though - again say so out of observation of being here for 2 yrs, not out of ego/pride on my part).

thanks for reply Sir.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by Immanuel Can » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:00 pm

gaffo wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:36 am
if you'd like to talk about Biblical Archeology and the evolution of religions (such as the evoluton of Jesus as the most perfect man adopted by YHWH as his son to, Jesus born god's son but still a man, to Jesus as never born, and God....................i.e Mark/ Matt-Luke, and John).
I don't mind talking about it, but we have to keep in mind that it's merely speculative. We don't know whether or not it's the right explanation.

It may be that some "religions" evolved into existence. But it may be that some don't. Certainly, Islam, Judaism and Christianity, to say nothing of, say, Mormonism, claim to be religions not of evolution but of revelation. If we want to take those claims as a serious possibility at all, then we'd need to bear in mind that ideologies don't all necessarily develop the same way.
thanks for reply Sir.
Again, you're welcome; and same to you.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:35 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:50 pm
Does the MODEL of a male gender assignment to a GOD...

A) Tend to give males automatic superiority over females?

and

B) Enable males to be lazier and more ignorant :lol: in actually developing and demonstrating their spiritual potential?

Seriously, I'm asking what are the impacts to human genders, of assigning a male gender to A SINGLE GOD?
Really... the churches are empty and noone practices religion anymore and you want to attack and blame religion for using "male" as a word?

Seriously?

Man-hater. Probably can't keep a man.



See what happens when the tables are turned?

gaffo
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by gaffo » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:41 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:00 pm
gaffo wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:36 am
if you'd like to talk about Biblical Archeology and the evolution of religions (such as the evoluton of Jesus as the most perfect man adopted by YHWH as his son to, Jesus born god's son but still a man, to Jesus as never born, and God....................i.e Mark/ Matt-Luke, and John).
I don't mind talking about it, but we have to keep in mind that it's merely speculative. We don't know whether or not it's the right explanation.
great, lets talk about it!

Immanuel Can wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:00 pm
It may be that some "religions" evolved into existence. But it may be that some don't.
moat do.

Buddism from Hinduism

Christianity from Judaism

Islam (ya i know Muslims will deny this - prefer self contained revalation (historical facts do not support this claim)) from Judaism.

in fact Islam was born via Iraqi Judaic and Christian Gnostic texts (works that were popular among christians and jews but eventually rejected from their Canon later.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am

gaffo wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:41 am
Immanuel Can wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:00 pm
It may be that some "religions" evolved into existence. But it may be that some don't.
moat do.
Perhaps. But if not all do, then it's a problem for any theory that depends on all religions having an "evolutionary" pattern. Some won't.
Christianity from Judaism
Well, you really could argue that Christianity isn't "evolved" from Judaism; in a real sense, Christianity IS Judaism... real Judaism, fulfilled. In truth, it's modern Judaism that's stopped being real Judaism: nowadays, it's a cultural mishmash of OT plus traditions. But really, it's just ancient Judaism unfulfilled.

No modern Jewish person is going to like that argument, but it happens to be true. Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel. There is no other. Nor will there ever be.
in fact Islam was born via Iraqi Judaic and Christian Gnostic texts (works that were popular among christians and jews but eventually rejected from their Canon later.
It's worse than that, actually. If you read the Koran, you'll find it doesn't even accurately reproduce the Judaic or Christian originals on many points. What it is, is a desert cult, based on a combination of what an illiterate man could remember of Judaism plus Nestorianism, plus stuff he made up.

gaffo
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by gaffo » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:16 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am

Well, you really could argue that Christianity isn't "evolved" from Judaism; in a real sense, Christianity IS Judaism... real Judaism,
oh yes the old chestnut of the "true Scotsman".


ho hum

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
fulfilled.
yes i know the christian argument/perspective per this particular..............hear it trillion times.

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
In truth, it's modern Judaism that's stopped being real Judaism: nowadays, it's a cultural mishmash of OT plus traditions.
yes i know, you are refering to Rabbical Judiasm and maybe reform forms of............as you should know the Romans raised Jerusalam and killed the Messianic jews (essenes).

there are millions of jews today and few prob are messiac and essene in mindset, but as whole that eary form of Judaism was removed from the earth by the romans.


Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
But really, it's just ancient Judaism unfulfilled.
yes i know the Christain chestnut.

Mormons use the same WRT to your religion.


and of course per Judiasm the concept that God could come in the form of a man is heresy.

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
No modern Jewish person is going to like that argument,

prob not like it.


Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
but it happens to be true.
yes true, per the surviving form of Judiasm - rabbinical.


Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel.
Jews do not agree

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
There is no other. Nor will there ever be.
Jews do not agree and still wait for the arrival of their True Messiah (who can never be their God's son nor their God in human form), but a strong mortal man anointed by their God to free them from oppression.

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
in fact Islam was born via Iraqi Judaic and Christian Gnostic texts (works that were popular among christians and jews but eventually rejected from their Canon later.
It's worse than that, actually. If you read the Koran, you'll find it doesn't even accurately reproduce the Judaic or Christian originals on many points. What it is, is a desert cult, based on a combination of what an illiterate man could remember of Judaism plus Nestorianism, plus stuff he made up.
I've read some of the Koran and know of its errors - due to being taken from errounious Yemeni Jews of poor understanding of their Judaism.

Islam is not a desert cult (the 300+ gods in Medina - the old polytheistic gods Muhammed overturned were the "desert cults"

Islam is a missmash of mosly Yemeni Judiasm (90-percent) of the 600 century, with 300 century Gnostic christianity thrown in in lesser amounts (10 percent) - nearly all origin story (Belial refusing to bow down to adam), with a small addendum WRT to Infancy of christ work.

I do know somewhat about both history and religions of that part of our world Sir.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm

gaffo wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:16 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am

Well, you really could argue that Christianity isn't "evolved" from Judaism; in a real sense, Christianity IS Judaism... real Judaism,
oh yes the old chestnut of the "true Scotsman".
Not at all. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy is something that happens when somebody says, "No true X ever does Y." I don't say that. What I say instead is that Christianity owes its origins to Judaism, and sees itself as a fulfillment of Judaism.

You can argue it's not, if you wish. But it's quite reasonable to understand that that is how Christianity understands itself.
there are millions of jews today and few prob are messiac
A minority, at the moment, to be sure. But there are quite a few around...and even in Israel.
and of course per Judiasm the concept that God could come in the form of a man is heresy.
Think of it this way. Can a man become God? No, obviously. But can the Supreme Being in the universe, who made all mankind in the first place, ever become a human being, if He so wishes?

I understand that Judaism shares with Christianity the belief that God can do what He wills. So the question is not so much "Could He," since we know He could; the question is "Did He?"
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel.
Jews do not agree
Other than the Messianic Jews, that's true.
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:15 am
There is no other. Nor will there ever be.
Jews do not agree and still wait for the arrival of their True Messiah (who can never be their God's son nor their God in human form), but a strong mortal man anointed by their God to free them from oppression.
Yes, they think that. But they should read their own Scriptures more closely on that...particularly Isaiah. The whole point of the Gospel of Matthew is, in fact, how Jesus Christ fulfills the prophecies of the OT. But modern Judaism is divided on their own Scriptures. Some expect Messiah yet to come; others expect only a Messianic age, with no personal Messiah. Others have given up hope altogether. Conservative Rabbis still struggle with the two Messiahs they see in the OT -- the Messiah Ben Joseph and the Messiah Ben David -- one to suffer, and one to rule. But Christians say there is but one Messiah, who both suffered and will rule.

gaffo
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by gaffo » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:52 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm
The whole point of the Gospel of Matthew is, in fact, how Jesus Christ fulfills the prophecies of the OT.
yes i know that.

I've read that work and like it. welcome disscussion on that work, bearing in mind last time i read it was 20 yrs ago. lol. ;-/.

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm
But modern Judaism is divided on their own Scriptures.
as are everyone else: prots/catholics, shai/sunni/allowites/addayamia(sp)...etc............

nothing new there.

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm
Some expect Messiah yet to come; others expect only a Messianic age, with no personal Messiah. Others have given up hope altogether.
interesting.

ok.
Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm
Conservative Rabbis still struggle with the two Messiahs they see in the OT -- the Messiah Ben Joseph and the Messiah Ben David -- one to suffer, and one to rule.
nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know nothing about this at all!!!!!!!!!

I value learning, tell me more if willing to! about who those two men were (archypes?) king david-type strongman is intuwited or one, not sure about the other? Joseph of coat of many colors? the other?, what the rabbis believe about them etc!!!!!!!!!!

THIS is what a forum should be about!

i welcome learning.


Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm
But Christians say there is but one Messiah, who both suffered and will rule.
lol, yes of course (no need to state the self evident, but ok too i guess).

thanks for reply!

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:02 pm

gaffo wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:52 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm
Conservative Rabbis still struggle with the two Messiahs they see in the OT -- the Messiah Ben Joseph and the Messiah Ben David -- one to suffer, and one to rule.
nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know nothing about this at all!!!!!!!!!

I value learning, tell me more if willing to! about who those two men were (archypes?) king david-type strongman is intuwited or one, not sure about the other? Joseph of coat of many colors? the other?, what the rabbis believe about them etc!!!!!!!!!!
Well, there are a whole bunch of OT prophecies that speak of the Messiah reigning as king. Those, the rabbis say, refer to the "Messiah Ben David," the Son of David, the rightful inheritor of the Kingdom of Israel, promised to rule forever in Jerusalem.

However, other passages, like Isaiah 53, speak of a Messiah who suffers, and thus carries the sins of the people...like the sacrifices in the Temple. Like Joseph, who as persecuted in Egypt in order to save his brothers and nation, this Messiah is said to be "bruised" and "pierced," and "despised and rejected by men." And this puzzles rabbinical thought: why would Messiah ever suffer? How can He rule if He suffers? So they tend to attribute some of the key "Messiah Ben Joseph" passages to maybe an analogy for Israel, and how much that nation has suffered in history...but it all sits uncomfortably with them, at present.
thanks for reply!
You're most welcome.

gaffo
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by gaffo » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:57 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:02 pm
gaffo wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:52 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm
Conservative Rabbis still struggle with the two Messiahs they see in the OT -- the Messiah Ben Joseph and the Messiah Ben David -- one to suffer, and one to rule.
nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know nothing about this at all!!!!!!!!!

I value learning, tell me more if willing to! about who those two men were (archypes?) king david-type strongman is intuwited or one, not sure about the other? Joseph of coat of many colors? the other?, what the rabbis believe about them etc!!!!!!!!!!
Well, there are a whole bunch of OT prophecies that speak of the Messiah reigning as king. Those, the rabbis say, refer to the "Messiah Ben David," the Son of David, the rightful inheritor of the Kingdom of Israel, promised to rule forever in Jerusalem.

However, other passages, like Isaiah 53, speak of a Messiah who suffers, and thus carries the sins of the people...like the sacrifices in the Temple. Like Joseph, who as persecuted in Egypt in order to save his brothers and nation, this Messiah is said to be "bruised" and "pierced," and "despised and rejected by men." And this puzzles rabbinical thought: why would Messiah ever suffer? How can He rule if He suffers? So they tend to attribute some of the key "Messiah Ben Joseph" passages to maybe an analogy for Israel, and how much that nation has suffered in history...but it all sits uncomfortably with them, at present.
thanks for reply!
You're most welcome.
thanks for reply/education.

sadly we are done talking sense forth. you are one of the American Taliban and i have no farther wish to talk with you .

refer to the other thread "sir".

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:09 am

gaffo wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:57 pm
sadly we are done talking sense forth. you are one of the American Taliban and i have no farther wish to talk with you .
Funny.

Well, you're wrong both times. I'm not "Taliban," or anything like it; and I'm not even "American"...though I do like people from both sides of "the Pond." :D

gaffo
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by gaffo » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:16 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:09 am
gaffo wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:57 pm
sadly we are done talking sense forth. you are one of the American Taliban and i have no farther wish to talk with you .
Funny.

Well, you're wrong both times. I'm not "Taliban," or anything like it; and I'm not even "American"...though I do like people from both sides of "the Pond." :D
I forgot you were not an American, always thought you were canadian. asked several times you never stated.

why am i talking to a canadian taliban.

you view all sins as the same, such a mind is not one i wish to converse with.

bye.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Impact of male god on human genders

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:30 am

gaffo wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:16 am
you view all sins as the same,
This is not something I said. You assumed it, but you assumed wrongly.

I said ANY sin was bad enough to sever one's relationship with God. I did not say all were equally bad. But all are, indeed, bad.

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