Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:03 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:42 pm
The question is about "God, Satan, Adam and Eve." Those are Biblical figures. So it what it actually says is of primary relevance, and what it means has to be interpreted from the substance of what it says.
Obviously.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:42 pm
But mistakes are distinct from wrongdoing. Wrongdoing is deliberate and (to the present question) "evil." Mistakes are mere errors.
Once again another perfect example is provided of how a human being 'tries to' "minimize" and "justify" their own WRONG behaviors.
Not at all.
Do you do 'evil' things?
Your honest answer would be much appreciated.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pmIf you fall down the stairs, you made a "mistake."
Agreed.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pmBut you didn't "sin." You weren't "evil."
What does 'sin' mean to you?
And how often are 'sinning', and how often are you 'evil', compared to how often you just make "mistakes"?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pm You were just guilty of putting your foot in the wrong place, because you didn't know better.
What do you mean by 'didn't know better'?
Is this the first time walking down stairs?
If no, then surely you would 'know better'.
Saying things like, "I didn't know better", just sounds like an "excuse", a "minimization", and/or a "justification" for what you really did 'know better'.
Adult human beings really do have this very strong tendency and habit of 'trying to' blame some thing else for what is really their fault alone.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pmThis is an important distinction. Even in court, "having a motive" goes to the question of guilt. If there was no intention or desire to commit the act, neither was their guilt. It was an "accident," a "mistake," not a concealed crime.
True, but then those human made up courts and rules will still put the blame on you and can punish you for very long sentences for the "accident" or "mistake". This brings about a new point and question; Why do 'you', human beings, sometimes punish each other if it was just an 'accident' or 'mistake'?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pmRemember what is meant is interpreted from the words used.
Not true at all. What is "meant" is "meant" by the speaker of the words. What is "interpreted" may be right or wrong.
Although there is truth in this, there is also truth in the speaker/writer has an 'interpretation' of what words mean, which is what I was clumsily writing, and meant to mean, myself.
ALL of the words being used, both by the writer/reader AND the speaker/listener, are being 'interpreted' by ALL of these people. Even what the speaker/writer is 'meaning' is 'interpreted' from the words used.
Does this clear it up somewhat better?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pm If (s)he "interpreted" what the speaker "meant," then the interpreter got it right. If (s)he interpreted wrongly, she didn't know what the speaker "meant."
Agreed.
And just to be VERY, VERY CLEAR the listener will NEVER know if they have 'got it right' or if they 'did not know what the speaker 'MEANT' ' if they NEVER clarify with the speaker FIRST.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pmYou've got it precisely backwards there.
Are you absolutely sure of this?
Or is it possible that you just 'misinterpreted' what I, the writer, 'meant'?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pmThe word 'mistakes' can be used to blame and/or replace one's real deliberate and intentional WRONG doing, which ALL adult human beings do do.
Only if the action wasn't actually a mistake. But if it was, it's a legit excuse.
And that is WHY I used the 'can' word.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pm
But they were NEVER 'heaven on earth'. They were just what SOME people thought was 'heaven'.
Yes, that's the problem. But we ought to ask why every single attempt at it so far has failed so utterly disastrously, lest our latest "hope" of such prove likewise homicidal.
Why not just LOOK AT the Truth of things instead? If you do, then what is SEEN is that 'heaven' will NEVER work when only SOME are in agreement. This, also, is the very reason WHY 'heaven' has not yet come into fruition.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pm Every one of these "utopias" were thought by their proponents to be "the right one," or "better than the former attempts."
The same as like you think 'your ways', (the christian way), is 'the right way' or the 'better than other attempts/way'. So, nothing really changed here.
As I have said, only when 'you', adult human beings, seriously want to change, for the better, then things can really change. Thinking 'your way' is better than other ways has NEVER worked.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pmSo feeling that now is a guarantee of nothing save our own lack of a sense of history and of self-awareness.
I do not understand this.
For as you say below, there has been no "Heaven on Earth."
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:15 pmAlso, there has NEVER been an adult human being who has NOT done WRONG, and while 'you', adults, keep doing WRONG there will NEVER be a 'heaven on earth'. It really is that SIMPLE.
"You, adults"?
How old are you? Honest question. I have to ask, since you raised it.
I raised 'it' knowing you would ASSUME some thing, which you obviously have, and then I can point out that it is better to NEVER assume any thing. Although I thank you for asking a clarifying question your question is based on an ASSUMPTION, so I will leave it alone as I have also raised, 'you', human beings, as well.