Can good God do evil?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
bahman
Posts: 2305
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by bahman » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:47 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 pm
God himself declared in the Bible that He is the creator of good and evil while being a good God.
Reference, please. Give me the quotation.
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

User avatar
bahman
Posts: 2305
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by bahman » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:48 pm

Age wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:03 pm
Does good God have the ability to do evil? The answer is just simply no.
How do you know? Do you have any reason?

User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 5978
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:57 pm

bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:47 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 pm
God himself declared in the Bible that He is the creator of good and evil while being a good God.
Reference, please. Give me the quotation.
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Where does it mention the "creation" of the concept "good"? That's the important feature.

The idea of a created "evil" is easy -- anything that is "not good" fits the bill. But where is the mention of the creation of "good" itself, rather than it being an intrinsic property of the Creator?

User avatar
bahman
Posts: 2305
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by bahman » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:16 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:57 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:47 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm

Reference, please. Give me the quotation.
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Where does it mention the "creation" of the concept "good"? That's the important feature.

The idea of a created "evil" is easy -- anything that is "not good" fits the bill. But where is the mention of the creation of "good" itself, rather than it being an intrinsic property of the Creator?
What do you mean? I said that in Bible God declared that he is the creator of good and evil and gave you the reference.

Skepdick
Posts: 1469
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Skepdick » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:57 pm
Where does it mention the "creation" of the concept "good"? That's the important feature.

The idea of a created "evil" is easy -- anything that is "not good" fits the bill. But where is the mention of the creation of "good" itself, rather than it being an intrinsic property of the Creator?
And that's the kind of mental gymnastics morally bankrupt Christians have to resort to.

It's trivial to be morally superior to an asshole-God like that.

Deontological goodness counts for nothing in a world of consequences.

Impenitent
Posts: 2355
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Impenitent » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:00 pm

bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:53 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:11 pm
infinity is as infinity does...

or is that just stupid?

-Imp
Do you mean that He can do evil?
no, I mean that the infinite is infinite...

-Imp

User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Sculptor » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:04 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:57 pm
bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:47 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm

Reference, please. Give me the quotation.
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Where does it mention the "creation" of the concept "good"? That's the important feature.

The idea of a created "evil" is easy -- anything that is "not good" fits the bill. But where is the mention of the creation of "good" itself, rather than it being an intrinsic property of the Creator?
Good grief. If I believed in God I'd have to say "god help you"

User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 5978
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:06 pm

bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:16 pm
What do you mean? I said that in Bible God declared that he is the creator of good and evil and gave you the reference.
There was no mention of "good" as a created concept in your quotation. Zero. So it doesn't help your case.

User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 5978
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:11 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:39 pm
It's trivial to be morally superior to a ________God like that.
"I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment." Matthew 12:36.

Right now, there is really no amount of money I anyone could pay me to be you, even for a second.

Best you think on that.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8123
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:59 am

Which 'god' are you referring to (since you apparently believe in many)?

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:21 am

Age wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:03 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:52 am
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:27 pm
Does good God have the ability to do evil? If yes, is His evil act justifiable just because He is God?
Contradiction.
If a God is claimed to be good, then, such a God cannot be claimed to be evil.
The two questions combined are NOT a contradiction at all. Also, where was a claim about God to be evil? What a thing does is not necessarily what it is.
If a good God can do evil, then it also has evil qualities, i.e. the propensity to do evil acts.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:52 am
(btw, God is an impossibility to be real)
If you say so. Is that an absolute irrefutable True fact, to you?
It is not a fact.
It is via reason, i.e. a God [imperative definition] cannot be real.
It is just a non-starter, like hypothesizing a square-circle exists and starting a search for it.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:52 am
Note the Problem of Evil, that a supposedly omni-benevolent God is indifferent to the natural catastrophes since eons that generate terrible suffering to humankind, is itself evil.
Why do some human beings think/believe that they are somehow so important in the scheme of things?

If it was not for perfectly natural events, which some human beings call "catastrophes", then human beings would not even be here in the first place and existing now.

Events do not cause suffering to "humankind". Human beings make up a perception of suffering and another one of "terrible suffering". As if suffering was not bad enough human beings had to make up the term "terrible suffering".

"Suffering" is just a relatively new phenomena brought about by, and for, human beings only. (Now this should evoke and bring about some challenging questions).
Are you implying human should ignore sufferings because it is an 'invented' concepts?

Re the concept of 'suffering' it is not that human beings are important to the scheme of things.
The concept of 'suffering' is critical for survival, i.e. recognizing 'suffering' by humans will enable humans to avoid them, thus prevent potential death if the suffering continue.

If a person is suffering, how can you expect the person to ignore it?
All humans has evolved with mirror neurons to empathize with others that are suffering, do you want those who empathize to stop doing so and let people suffer?

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6783
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:01 am

bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:55 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:27 pm
Does good God have the ability to do evil? If yes, is His evil act justifiable just because He is God?
Nothing is being evil. The belief there is something being evil is what evil is.

Nothing is believing that.

.
What do you mean with nothing? I cannot follow your first statement.
What I mean by 'nothing' is there is 'no doer' doing or being evil. No thing is making evil happen. It's just a mental construct, a concept known by no thing.

However, it does appear that happenings are happening, and that's what makes human sentient awareness a nightmare to observe.

Dreams are real, some are amazingly beautiful and pleasurable, while others are down right unpleasant even horrific, like your worst nightmare come true, appearing as if it's really happening.

Life is one unitary action, there's no one responsible for anything, except in the dream of separation in this conception.

When there is word of God being evil or good, these are just fables arising believed to be real as the word dictates, albeit illusory since words are empty like all dreams.

Words are very powerful, without them there's absolutely nothing happening, or known about life whatsoever.

In other words, the emptiness that is life living itself all alone appearing to be full of real things in and of themselves is a very convincing illusion.

.

Skepdick
Posts: 1469
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Skepdick » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:23 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:11 pm
Right now, there is really no amount of money I anyone could pay me to be you, even for a second.

Best you think on that.
Eternally - there is no amount of intimidation that could convince me to be you.

Not even an eternal damnation in Hell can convince me that your God has or is a moral compass of any sort.

Best you think of that.
Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:11 pm
"I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment." Matthew 12:36
And your God shall be judged and account for his words and deeds when I get there.

If he's the kind of ruler that is open to being held accountable, maybe he'll regain an ounce of my respect.
Last edited by Skepdick on Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Skepdick
Posts: 1469
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Skepdick » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:55 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:21 am
It is via reason, i.e. a God [imperative definition] cannot be real.
It is just a non-starter, like hypothesizing a square-circle exists and starting a search for it.
1st time is accidental ignorance. 2nd time is a choice.

Why does a "reasonable" person choose to be ignorant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_geometry#Circles

Age
Posts: 3084
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Can good God do evil?

Post by Age » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:03 am

bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:48 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:03 pm
Does good God have the ability to do evil? The answer is just simply no.
How do you know?
The word 'good' in relation to any thing means that whatever the thing is, it IS good. Good things do not do evil things.

If you wrote does God have the ability..., then the answer could be different.
bahman wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:48 pm
Do you have any reason?
The same reason as above.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest