Free Will

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Free Will

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:26 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:39 am
The more we recognise ourselves as consciousness reflected upon itself, the more we move toward self-love, love for all, peace, and joy. For as long as our psyche is split into two parts - ''mental'' and "physical" we remain limited to the understanding of self-love, love for all, peace and joy.
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Love for all is for the delusional and pitiful as love has conditions and if you love all people the same way, then there is no one special in your life.

If that is where your ideology leads you, you can have it.

Regards
DL
Huh, I don't see it like that at all.. I never mentioned loving people the same way.

LOVE for all has nothing to do with loving them all the same way, where on earth did you get that idea?

The art of loving others starts on the inside with you the one and only, it's about loving yourself from the foundation of your own personal evolutionary growth. Starting with yourself is the key to accepting others for who they are. I see it as unconditionally loving yourself and then allowing others the same freedom to love themselves unconditionally.

I don't agree with the idea of having ''special people'' in my life...I'm a grown up mature person, I am responsible for loving myself specially. On the other hand a child is needy of a special person in their life, they need the special love of their carers. However, there comes a time when one has to let go of the need for other peoples special love and learn to love themselves unconditionally and fearlessly. Learning to be alone with oneself without the need for another to complete them is the ultimate LOVE ..it's natures natural default position. Not many people ever find that pure state of being, this is a state of no resistance to what is, be it negative or positive but just allow what ever arises to be there without fighting it, or judging or rejecting it, or wanting to change it to some other prefered state ...people who have self-inquired into the true nature of their being can find sanctuary and rest in the natural default position that is love and respect for all life however life may present itself, even amid the sometimes chaotic and mentally challenging times we live in right now...LIFE EATS ITSELF TO STAY ALIVE. It really fucks itself over and over just for the sake of staying alive, it cares only for it's own survival. Life is love loving itself only, no matter how that love manifests. Love even manifests as having special preferences for one way over another and even that is still love expressing itself as the misery self for the love of itself.

I'm living proof, I'm living testimony to what I am talking about, I am living the perfectly free and fearless unconditioned life right now. I don't reject anything. I love myself first, and if that means wanting to be alone only with myself that is me being free and real to myself. That doesn't make me closed off to others, it makes me be free to love them just as they are too without wanting them to be any different than how they are, whether I like the way they are or not matters nothing to me, for nothing other people do or say to me will ever change of effect my inner love and peace for myself.

For me, all people are special in their own unique way. Personally, it repulses me to think we can make another person my 'special person' as if they were some sort of possession and that no one else is allowed to enjoy them. (we're all different in how we see other people) I'm not implying all people are the same in the way they approach their personal relationships. For me personally, I would never call someone my special person.

Personally, I have no desire to form special relationships with others, nor do I hold on to unreasonable unattainable expectations as to how people should love me. If someone repeatedly said to me I am their special person I would have to leave that person, because that to me would be smothering my freedom to be. And that would not mean I didn't love the person, it would mean I do love the person, because I would be wanting them to be free of the belief that I am their special person, I would be freeing that person from the crutches of neediness and the fear of facing their own void.It's only when we can face our own void and be alone with ourself without fear that we are ever really truly free and loving.

To me people are free, they are not the special property of another. For me, all people are special in their own way, but no one owns us.
The more we recognise ourselves as consciousness reflected upon itself,is the recognition that there is only one of us here. And so if you have no empathy and love for yourself accepting all aspects of yourself both positive and negative without fear or rejection, then what hope in loving another have you got?

Ultimate freedom and love is becoming aware there is no one to consciously choose anything in life, it's about accepting that all choice is a choiceless choice and that there is no one in charge with ultimate authority or control over anything in their temporal life. Everything is as it is, be it good or bad, ugly or beautiful.

Choosing peace and equilibrium is a free choice and so is choosing wrongly and irresponsibly, if you are not free to choose how you want to feel, or accept unconditionally how you are feeling at any given moment whether you wanted that feeling or not, then you are not free at all. And that is ultimate freedom the freedom that is no thing being everything.

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Greatest I am
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Re: Free Will

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:49 pm

"accepting others for who they are."

You just changed the goal post from love to accept.

"I see it as unconditionally loving yourself "

I have conditions for my self-love. If you do not, you set too low a bar.
Like Jesus said, he (and I). recognize those we choose to love by their works and deeds.

"I don't agree with the idea of having ''special people'' in my life..."

You disappoint your parents, wife and children.

That is why I reject your views.

I did not bother reading most of your essay because you do not know what love is.

Regards
DL

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Dontaskme
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Re: Free Will

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:54 pm

“I did not bother reading most of your essay because you do not know what love Is”

I don’t know anything...I’m just playing with words, I literally just make it all up as I go along. I invent stories to fill in the big gaping void in my blank not knowing existence...what else is there to do?

For me, being alive is no different than being dead...I own my stories ...the ones I make up...no one else thought of them, only me, and that’s about all that being alive means to me...I literally make my own reality and own it..

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Greatest I am
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Re: Free Will

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:07 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:54 pm
“I did not bother reading most of your essay because you do not know what love Is”

I don’t know anything...I’m just playing with words, I literally just make it all up as I go along. I invent stories to fill in the big gaping void in my blank not knowing existence...what else is there to do?

For me, being alive is no different than being dead...I own my stories ...the ones I make up...no one else thought of them, only me, and that’s about all that being alive means to me...I literally make my own reality and own it..
Good for you.

Regards
DL

gaffo
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Re: Free Will

Post by gaffo » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:59 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:12 pm


But don't listen to me,

ok.

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:12 pm
taste it for yourself,

good advice, i shall.

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:12 pm
I can't taste it for you, I can only show you the menu, word salad.
no you can't, but i read your replies and view then as nonsense, and so ignore, while welcoming wise council.

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:12 pm
Take it or leave it, if it's not to your taste.

.
yep.

f12hte
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Re: Free Will

Post by f12hte » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:09 pm

RCSaunders wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:45 am
f12hte wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:24 pm
Everything is instinctual or learned. Free will is not involved. The will is programmed by experience and thus it is not free. Guilt and punishment are not warranted, because moral failure is impossible for people without free will.
Thanks for the preprogrammed comment, even though it cannot mean anything. It's just what you wrote because you had no choice in the matter. It's not your fault, you couldn't help it.
But I think it does mean something. It means that I am what I experience . Thank you for your careful reading of my screed. You interpreted what I was saying and told me back in your words describing what I said in my words.
That is very clever.

gaffo
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Re: Free Will

Post by gaffo » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:35 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:43 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:45 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:18 pm


First. Loving alone is infatuation and not love.
so utterly wrong in all ways.

you are too lost in understanding what Love is, for me to waste my time.
You say I am lost in understanding while running away from showing yours.

That is quite hypocritical but you win that debate hands down.

Take a bow if you can stop running away long enough.

This is quite cheep even for you buddy. If we were not friends, I would tell you where to go.

Regards
DL
I did not run away "from that is mine" - i state my personal experience about Love in this thread for you to read.

- and are we friends? you told me to "go fuck myself" last year. i did not like reading that thinking we were, but since that time it posted about it and you never affirmed your reply to me /nor appoligized, and so not since last year (I did view you as a friend - but not now), have i viewed you as a friend.

you showed your nature, and now i know it and so knowing it, willing to converse, and to agree or dissagree, but expect no shared friendship between us.

i know your nature now.

good day and thanks for reply.

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RCSaunders
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Re: Free Will

Post by RCSaunders » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:05 am

f12hte wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:09 pm
But I think it does mean something. It means that I am what I experience . Thank you for your careful reading of my screed. You interpreted what I was saying and told me back in your words describing what I said in my words.
That is very clever.
So, in an odd way, I guess what we said agrees, even if we don't.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Free Will

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:13 am

I can't taste it for you, I can only show you the menu, word salad.
gaffo wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:59 pm
no you can't, but i read your replies and view then as nonsense, and so ignore,
Thanks for your aknowledgement of my nonsense, I agree, for I have no word to say about myself,except the word itself, and yet there is nothing in a word either, so I guess I'm just going to have to stick with being a good old fashioned nobody like every one else. Or I could just magically invent a someone out of some sound that comes blabbering out of my body from nowhere. I guess that's just about the nature of free will...it wills what it wants willy nilly, left right and centre.


.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Free Will

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:22 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:07 pm

Good for you.

Regards
DL
I'll decide whether something is good for me, not you.

.

f12hte
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Re: Free Will

Post by f12hte » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:57 am

RCSaunders wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:05 am
f12hte wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:09 pm
But I think it does mean something. It means that I am what I experience . Thank you for your careful reading of my screed. You interpreted what I was saying and told me back in your words describing what I said in my words.
That is very clever.
So, in an odd way, I guess what we said agrees, even if we don't.
Yeah, affable disagreement. It's a novelty nowadays.

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RCSaunders
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Re: Free Will

Post by RCSaunders » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:18 am

f12hte wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:57 am
Yeah, affable disagreement. It's a novelty nowadays.
Actually, I personally find a lot of affable disagreement, but oddly, not so much around here. I find that ironic, since it's supposed to be a philosophy site.

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Greatest I am
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Re: Free Will

Post by Greatest I am » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:32 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:22 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:07 pm

Good for you.

Regards
DL
I'll decide whether something is good for me, not you.

.
Now your getting the idea of subjective morality and objective morality.

Good for you. :lol: :lol:

Regards
DL

surreptitious57
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Re: Free Will

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:51 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Learning to be alone with oneself without the need for another to complete them is the ultimate LOVE .. it is natures natural default position
Not many people ever find that pure state of being this is a state of no resistance to what is be it negative or positive but just allow whatever arises to be there without fighting it or judging or rejecting it or wanting to change it to some other preferred state ... people who have
self inquired into the true nature of their being can find sanctuary and rest in the natural default position that is love and respect for all
life however life may present itself even amid the sometimes chaotic and mentally challenging times we live in right now
I am alone with myself virtually all of the time and while I do not think of it as LOVE like you do it does bring me peace of mind
The older I get the more detached I become and it makes me more balanced as a human being psychologically / philosophically

I do not love or hate myself but instead accept myself for who I am and understand that self improvement is an eternal work in progress

I understand too that this existence is but a short one and that there is therefore no point in holding onto it anymore than is absolutely necessary
Death is the end of all suffering so is nothing to be afraid of [ I have not been afraid of it for five years now after realising fear of it is irrational ]

I do not recommend this philosophical world view to others for it is not for me to tell other minds how to think but suffice to say it works for me

surreptitious57
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Re: Free Will

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:05 am

Dontaskme wrote:
I have no desire to form special relationships with others nor do I hold on to unreasonable unattainable expectations as to how people should love me . If someone repeatedly said to me I am their special person I would have to leave that person because that to me would be smothering my freedom to be . And that would not mean I did not love the person it would mean I do love the person because I would be wanting them to be
free of the belief that I am their special person I would be freeing that person from the crutches of neediness and the fear of facing their own
void . It is only when we can face our own void and be alone with ourself without fear that we are ever really truly free
These are wonderful words of wisdom that I entirely agree with - I have absolutely no desire for anyone to love me [ or me to love anyone ]
Accept me for who I am by all means but do not love me because if I do not love myself then there is no reason for anyone else to love me

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