"Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:15 am

-1- wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm

Can't a man have a thought to himself? What is this barrage of interrogation? Have I ever asked you "why did you say this" or "why did you ask that question"?

I am sorry, but please allow me my privacy of thought. You have no right to question or ask my motivations.
Oh thanks for owning up to who's quote is was, so it was your quote, well that explains it then doesn't it. It's not that the quote was purported to be written down in the bible as some recorded thought by another... the quote was yours, in you all along.

Note that only what is within you can be external to you...else you wouldn't think or know of it. :D

What you have done is you have looked for the source of your own thoughts inside your own thought processing mechanism, in other words, you are the contents of consciousness searching for consciousness. I'd quit while you are ahead if I was you.

Only you can answer your own abstract metaphysical subjective questions, You have no right to assume others are asking or questioning what your private motivations are. No claim no blame, no fame. It's a simple game.

This is your projection - no one elses, swallow it down whole. What do you think and feel about it, what is your own answer to your own private thought? are others expected to know answers to your own private thoughts, the ones that you own? ..if you own it, then only you know the answer to it. :D




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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by -1- » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:57 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:15 am
-1- wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm

Can't a man have a thought to himself? What is this barrage of interrogation? Have I ever asked you "why did you say this" or "why did you ask that question"?

I am sorry, but please allow me my privacy of thought. You have no right to question or ask my motivations.
Oh thanks for owning up to who's quote is was, so it was your quote, well that explains it then doesn't it. It's not that the quote was purported to be written down in the bible as some recorded thought by another... the quote was yours, in you all along.

Note that only what is within you can be external to you...else you wouldn't think or know of it. :D

What you have done is you have looked for the source of your own thoughts inside your own thought processing mechanism, in other words, you are the contents of consciousness searching for consciousness. I'd quit while you are ahead if I was you.

Only you can answer your own abstract metaphysical subjective questions, You have no right to assume others are asking or questioning what your private motivations are. No claim no blame, no fame. It's a simple game.

This is your projection - no one elses, swallow it down whole. What do you think and feel about it, what is your own answer to your own private thought? are others expected to know answers to your own private thoughts, the ones that you own? ..if you own it, then only you know the answer to it. :D
You are a very bitter and pessimistic person, Dontaskme. Bitterness oozes from every pore of your body.

I don't know why this is. Perhaps you have hoped for something that never came? Like a global Christian revolution. I don't know.

"In the clearing stands the boxer and a fighter by his trade and he carries no reminders of every glove that laid him down or cut him till he cried out in his anger and his shame, I'm leaving, I'm leaving, but the fighter still remains lay-la-la."

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:17 am

-1- wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:57 am

You are a very bitter and pessimistic person, Dontaskme. Bitterness oozes from every pore of your body.
Thanks for the projection, it takes one to know one...I know you are but what am I ?

Forever Lost in translation.

Never give up the good fight.

.

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:22 am

-1- wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:57 am

I don't know why this is. Perhaps you have hoped for something that never came? Like a global Christian revolution. I don't know.
That's your problem not mine, you don't know anything except what you mentally project as known to you only. A.K.A Your a victim of your own imagination.

No thing ever comes, no thing ever leaves...HERENOW/NOWHERE ...You cannot show up to your own show.

.

Please don't bash me.

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by -1- » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:47 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:22 am

Please don't bash me.
Okay, then please stay away from badgering me.

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:04 am

-1- wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:55 am

You have some strange and mysterious concepts that seem to be unique, but perhaps your stance is shared by millions, or more.

At any rate, I believe your stance is false, and you believe your mistaken concepts more than you believe perceived reality and descriptions of that reality by language. That's your choice, and I respect that. I will have none of it, though.
A perception or description of any thing is knowledge, and knowledge of a thing is a concept KNOWN. ...concepts are not a mistake, there is no known YOU without the conception of YOU...it's how you the perceiver know any thing at all via the descriptive concept of the damn thing in the first place, in other words the conceived thing that only you created out of your own not-knowing unborn self...you gave birth to yourself in your own self made conception of you... was that a mistake?

You the unborn becomes born to be the thing you imagine yourself to be...via the knowledge of yourself...via the artificial conception of your unborn not-knowing self as a concept known...Only in this artificial conception do you become aware that you are aware. . via the illusory birth of you via the known concept of you. There is no concept without an awareness of that concept in the same instant, they are one and the same awareness aware of itself.


There is no belief without a believer. No thing known without a knower. Believer and belief are ONE in the same instant.

There is no YOU without the concept of you in this conception. To know you exist you first have to exist, you cannot know you know, you cannot exist twice. Therefore, there is no YOU because there is no other than YOU.
NOTHING BELONGS TO YOU. Everything already is you ....ownership of you is separation...albeit illusory.

You do not have to show up to your own show.

It's all you, you don't have to believe you are...you are without doubt or error.... but if in doubt, if there is no belief there, then beliver is not there either...can't have one without the other, else nothing is known to exist.

From belief to clarity.

.

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:11 am

-1- wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:47 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:22 am

Please don't bash me.
Okay, then please stay away from badgering me.

You can check out anytime you like (ignore yourself)....but you can never stay away from what you cannot leave...for there is no other one to stay away or leave you. You stay regardless...else the illusion of staying away and leaving wouldn't be known...as concept...make no mistake. Make belief.

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by -1- » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:12 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:11 am

You can check out anytime you like (ignore yourself)....but you can never stay away from what you cannot leave...for there is no other one to stay away or leave you. You stay regardless...else the illusion of staying away and leaving wouldn't be known...as concept...make no mistake. Make belief.

.
You are quite annoying, little Dontaskme. You asked me to not bash you, I asked you not to badger me. Yet you continue being a little annoyance.

You act buzzing me like little gnats buzz a waterbuffalo.

I've had enough of your bullshit. I'm putting you on iggy. -- Now you can go wild, you little grasshopper, you can talk nonsense all you want, and you won't affect me with your little-brain theories and trival tripe. You can hear your own voice and continue your love affair with it. I'm leaving YOU behind.

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:44 am

-1- wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:12 am
You are quite annoying, little Dontaskme. You asked me to not bash you, I asked you not to badger me. Yet you continue being a little annoyance.


Projection.

There is no-thing here except Light watching it's shadow...believing it is a shadow boxing with itself.

Nice show, but you don't have to show up to your own show, else you may get overshadowed.

You need to get out of your own way - there is no room in here for two.

Although it does take two to tango as evidenced in this disscusion.

You could always ignore yourself, but then you'd have no one to talk to.

-1- wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:12 am
I'm leaving YOU behind.
You'll be back, because a shadow is always behind you, you can't ever leave a shadow, where EGO ..I go

:D

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by Nick_A » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:42 pm

Genesis 2:
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Obviously Man has free will to choose but at the same time he doesn't. Why? It is because we re not ONE: we re a plurality.. We are dual natured having a higher part capable of conscious free will and a lower part, animal man, limited to acquired habits and reactions expressed by our personality. The fallen human condition has made it so that the lower dominates the higher instead of the universal norm of the lower serving the higher.

So Man has the conscious potential for free will but lacking consciousness, has become a slave to the reactions of our lower parts denying ourselves the potential for choice that free will makes possible.

gaffo
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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:55 pm

-1- wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:59 pm
I may have been too wordy in my previous topic start.

Please note: What I am after is information on the specific bible quote that
a. Says that man was given free will by god or else
b. says something that christians interpret directly from, and use as a reference, to support they believe god gave free will to man.
AFAIK there is no reference to "Freewill" in either the OT nor NT or Koran.

where there are references (not often) they seem to affirm determinism.

"Freewill" might be in the Rig Veda, Bagivad Gita, Muhabbaritta - i've had 40 yrs to read then but not yet (my bad) - i would like to one day.


-1- wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:59 pm
So please, offer your theories and other opinions on the other thread with the same title without "Attempt 2". It should give everyone hours of free entertainment.

But I want something different.

What I would really appreciate, because this is what I want to achieve with THIS thread: a word from anyone who knows a bible quote that christians refer to as a declaration by god that he gave free will to man.

All other commentaries, please put in the other thread with the (almost) same title.

thanks, friends, compliance would be much appreciated.
clear and to the point!

i too would like to see the reference, i do not know of it myself.

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:59 pm

-1- wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:20 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:30 pm
-1- wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:59 pm
...a word from anyone who knows a bible quote
Already sent to you, on the last strand. Did you miss it?

Genesis 1.
I missed it. What's a "strand"? Which is the last one of those? I know the last of the Mohikans, but not the last of the strand.

Please send me the same text that you sent me on the last strand, but in internal mail
as a Private Message here on Philosophy Now.

I was away, and could not contribute or read for a week or so. Maybe five days. A lot of VERY interesting posts have been made, and I could see OPINIONS and INFERENCES, but I could not see a direct quote such as "Genesis: 1:34-37" or something similar.

Please, Immanuel, if you could, please don't send commentary, only send me WHICH bible you quote, and the line numbers. I can do the rest.
Second that, i'd like a Genesis section that refers to freewill.

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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:04 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:48 am
-1- wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:22 pm
I not only believe Ramu, but I am on the same opinion.
No, you're not.

You never had an opinion in your life. None of us did. Instead, we just "danced to our DNA," as Richard Dawkins puts it. So you don't think, anymore than a rock has to "think" to fall off a mountainside. Like it, you are merely the product of a cascade of inevitable causes. Your opinions are not actually yours: they're products of the Big Bang, or rather, of whatever caused everything that caused the Big Bang. Nothing more.

And that makes me wonder why any of you are being caused to imagine you want to argue against free will. Nobody can believe you. They too are merely products.
I don't speak for others, just myself.

I like the concept of freewill, but think it is not supported in the "holy books" (western ones - negate the eastern ones until one here that has read then and can educate us about this matter).

I also see a bias of Pride/Hubris per the Freewill mentality.

the former is one of the Seven, the latter is not per say, but seem tied to the former too many times ;-/.

I personally do not believe in Freewill but would like to - same with your God/"God"/etc.............

but too humble to make what i "wish" to be what is.

gaffo
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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:21 pm

-1- wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:52 am
For god, the FUTURE, the NOW, and the PAST are equivalent to the PAST, so he has no choices at all.
I think it full folly to try to understand "god"/"the gods"(I assume he does not exist - hope i'm wrong and He is good also - but irrelivant to my existance here and now - so do not strive to a fool striving to understand a thing (at may exist/but do not think so) infinately beyond me.


does the ant ponder the sidewalk (no - more aptly the ant does not even see the sidewalk - let alone the sidewalk's maker!)

man is an ant, i am an ant - i see no reason to play the fool and claim i know the mind of something (assuming it exists) infinately beyond my nature.

so debates "the nature of God" bore the living shit out of me, for i know nothing about the matter and know on one else does either.

now if one wishes to debate the themes of archaic bibiical works - i'm all in since those works were my men, and i am one also.

gaffo
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Re: "Free will was given to man by god." Attempt 2.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:36 pm

-1- wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:11 am

Welcome to the Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

used to like the Eagles (they had talent - and like the Beatles the collective was more than their latter solo works), but corporate radio replayed them add nausiem, but early 80's i just had to turn the knob.

sorry Meisner, Hendley, Frey.

sorry, you guys have talent but radio played the shit out of your works from mid 70's to whatver, but 1980 i was burned out, now just turn the dial.


BTW i turned off the dial, since late 90's Rap removed "rock", loved "alternative" Refreshments, Nada Surf, Veruca Salt, Thowing muses (Kristen Hirsh)/etc..........but they were no longer played on "radio" by late 90's - only rap - so turned off radio.

I live on internet radio now - where i can hear the above, and interesting "Ethnic music" from all over the world, and 60's era rock and classical musical works.

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