Why the Ramana Maharshi model for humanity is flawed.

[PeteJ]

You won't find anybody whose day job is studying and endorsing the Tao Te Ching.

Of course I will. There are countless people working around the clock. I think what you mean is there is nobody to be found in the philosophy department.

[Belinda]

You won't find anybody whose day job is studying and endorsing the Tao Te Ching.

Of course I will. There are countless people working around the clock. I think what you mean is there is nobody to be found in the philosophy department.

No . I mean that nobody puts up a brass plate on their office that says "Tao Te Ching Specialist". Many people use Tao Te Ching for their inspirational theory of existence which I am sure will benefit themselves and others.

[Dontaskme]

And the point is that just as the knowledge that the quantum underpinning of the universe exists in a state of oneness offers no real answers as to how and why the universe came into existence,...

...likewise, the same thing applies to the concept of oneness being bandied about by the nondualists in this thread.

In other words, even though “oneness” may indeed be the ultimate state of reality at its deepest level, it should nevertheless be viewed as being nothing more than a strange and quirky feature of reality that (in and of itself) offers absolutely nothing toward explaining the hows and whys of our existence.

The only 'thing' that came into existence is knowledge.The (universe) is a conceptual 'thing' it's an idea born of the MIND.

Knowledge informs the illusory nature of it's self informed existence.

There is no such thing as your mind and my mind. Yet there is mind as knowledge dictates which is the totality of all the thoughts and experiences of all that has existed to date.

There is nothing preceding or outside of language/thought/knowledge/experience...Existence is totally made up of conceptual knowledge known by no thing ( MIND)

A Concept is an Idea, which is knowledge, and knowledge is totally unbounded and free of agency, even the thought of ''THOUGHTS'' belonging to a specific knowing agent is still a thought.... it is knowledge alone that creates a ''knower'' of itself, which is already another concept known within the only knowing there is which is consciousness/MIND (unknown)

No thing knows consciousness / mind - yet it is the knowing that cannot be known.

Language divides what can only ever be whole, therefore, any apparent division is only and ever the whole dividing itself, and that which is whole can never become un-wholed. Any divison is simply an illusory split.

So how is a conceptual idea going to explain how or why it exists..when it's not even aware it exists???

Awareness doesn't know it's aware...however there is an awareness of being aware due to conceptual language. The word has created an artificial division...and a divided consciousness cannot explain how or why it is or where it comes from ...because it doesn't exist in and of itself apart from the one and only one...there simply is no other one than one...and so the only question you, aka your '' assumed conceptual self'' born of concept known in the MIND should be asking ...is how or why there is the possibilty of oneness existing in the first place ..and there will be your answer right there in the question itself.


Existence / reality or what-ever idea crops up about what IT is or why it is, or where it comes from ...is not what thought thinks it is, nor is it otherwise. The question of how or what or where or who never even arises... because a question is a word, and a word doesn't exist in the way thought thinks it does...simply because there is no agency asking a question but the concept itself...

Try asking a concept to explain how or why it is a concept, and it will give you your answer immediately, that answer will be there isn't one, just as there is no question, and if there was a question then there must already be an answer to the question, else why would the question even arise if there was no answer...so going back to the why's and how's and explanations of the universes existence...this cannot be known simply because only concepts are KNOWN...and that which is KNOWN...cannot know anything...simply because a concept has no awareness of itself.

I hope you are following this...I know you don't like to talk to me these days, but hey, I'm not offended, please continue to ignore yourself, there is nothing to see or find here.

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[Dontaskme]

And other than coming up with some comforting and perhaps inspiring platitudes, what exactly was the truth of reality that Sri Ramana Maharshi was teaching to those who traveled far to be in his presence?

Ramana Maharshi was teaching in the form of his own ponderings about himself as an existing self.

He asked himself the question ''WHO AM I'' ?

A question is triggered by the idea that there is a sense of a self existing here. The question itself implies two things. The 'self' that you know and another 'self' the nature of what you do not know, but want to know?

So who is the ''other one'' who want's to know? ..the answer is the question...in the form of the one asking is creating an imaginary split..within itself.

So the real question should be...what is even known about the who of this known self? ..except what you the not-knowing known conceives via the image you have of yourself via the known concept as conceived by you alone...aka your own knowledge you have about yourself.

So the answer is already in the question ..All that you know is YOU know nothing. You have no idea who conceived you except the concept itself, you are basically self-conceiving in the knowledge you have about yourself. In the concept known.

So the whole of your assumed self existence is a complete pretense, it's a fictional character...because concepts don't know anything.

How can that be explained?

It can't, there is no explanatory gap that can be filled in because there is no thing there to fill it in, but the conceptual idea that there is in this conception, which is a fiction.

Empty space and the contents of that empty space aka (Consciousness/ Mind) is the same one emptiness..appearing full of it's own emptiness. And that is just a conceptual descriptive image of the imageless...

There is no gap between an object known and the unknown space that encompasses the object ..the object is the known within the not-known...inseparable as one infinite empty space, aka MIND knowing itself. No explanation necessary without causing an imaginary split that can never exist.

A mind can only know itself as an object, and an object cannot know anything, they are one in the same instant. This not-knowing known.





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[PeteJ]

Ramana Maharshi was teaching in the form of his own ponderings about himself as an existing self.

He asked himself the question ''WHO AM I'' ?

Nice post on a tricky topic.

Basically he taught what the mystics always teach, or rather help us to learn, but in his own very direct and simple way.

[Dontaskme]

Ramana Maharshi was teaching in the form of his own ponderings about himself as an existing self.

He asked himself the question ''WHO AM I'' ?

Nice post on a tricky topic.

To explain how or why or what made the universe, and where it comes from... first one should ask oneself ( who want's to KNOW? )

We don't even know WHO AM I ? ..but the mind is not satisfied with not-knowing...the mind want's to know HOW am I ?

In trying to answer these questions ...The conceptual mind comes up with a vast amount of words to explain that which it is incapable of understanding. In so doing it imagines that it understands.
When asked to define the meaning of it's creations, it falters and comes up with even more words.
For example the word ''explanation'' can do nothing to explain anything, simply because it too is a construction of conceptual Mind.

All that we know is by virtue of thought, and yet we can't even know thought itself,because every time we look at thought we don't see thought, we just see thoughts about thought.Even the thought we are talking about is created by the knowledge we have about ourself generated by thought.
So the thought is a self auto-perpetuating mechanism. Which gives rise to the illusion of an autonomous self.


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