Philosophy Now Forum

HexHammer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:51 pm Satan by far. The whole world has descended into chaos, pollution, global warming, corruption, murder, war, famine, etc!

But these conditions were predicated by one thing, and by one thing only, and that is god's imperative which said, "Go forth and multipy." Without following this imperative, overpopulation wouldn't have happened, and things would still be fine and dandy.

So ultimately it is god's will to be evil to mankind. Satan had nothing to do with this mess we are in today.

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 am I'm thinking that we have two possibilities to ease away from Iron Age language:

1. God might be order and Satan, chaos.

However, since total order is stasis and, as far as we're concerned, stasis is not all that great, then.

2. God is a productive balance of order and chaos while Satan is imbalance - the extremes, being too wild or too controlled.

Where in the bible do the scriptures say this?

Are you INTERPRETING?

roydop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:50 am Thinking is the deception/distraction.

Satan and Maya are both deceivers in each system of thought/religion. But it's same "power"/phenomenon as losing awareness of this realm while watching a movie.

It's all dependent upon you and where you focus your attention. It's all you, just not the you you think you are.

Yes, thinking leads to uncover the horrible self-contradictions of faith. Therefore all faithful should, and do, remain thoughtless.

This, I agree with, roydop. Refreshing to finally hear "I'm too stupid to see the stupidity of my belief, and I do hope to stay stupid, therefore reject thinking as a possible alternative" said by a believer.

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:44 am assuming your God is good, then his evil creation, and evil itself must offer a higher good, not understandable by men.

or your God is just evil.

or a little of both.

I don't belevie in your God so not able to know his nature for your.

You don't have to believe in the God of the Bible to know his nature.

He spake of his own nature Himself.

He said, first person singular, referring to himself, this:

"I'm a mean and jealous god."

Religious people have been working overtime in all ages of humankind (Christian era) to negate the obvious. And to negate God's own words. "NO, god, you are not mean and jealous. You are good, you are infinitely good." What rubbish. If you, the religious, don't believe your own God when he says something, then you are committing blasphemy! You ought to be burnt at the stakes for saying "god is infintely good". He Himself says He ain't! Who tf are you to argue with a straightforward and unambiguous self-description given by God Himself?

This has been debated as to whether the Bible was the word of God or an impression of what God should be like to the people of the time. I world say that both can suggest rather than control the thinking of the individual, and the bible is the impression of what God is like to the people of the time.

Neither entity has control of our thinking but either can suggest ways of thinking to the individual

thedoc wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:45 pm Neither entity has control of our thinking but either can suggest ways of thinking to the individual

There is no either. ..and the one you believe in, the 'benevolent' one ---actually sometimes does control ones thinking.

thedoc wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:45 pm Neither entity has control of our thinking but either can suggest ways of thinking to the individual

That is realistic, but not biblical.
I basically agree with your other post as well.

Regards
DL

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:39 pm

thedoc wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:45 pm Neither entity has control of our thinking but either can suggest ways of thinking to the individual

There is no either. ..and the one you believe in, the 'benevolent' one ---actually sometimes does control ones thinking.

How is that done exactly and what of our free will and the heavenly law of not interfering in another's free will?

Regards
DL

-1- wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:28 am

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 am I'm thinking that we have two possibilities to ease away from Iron Age language:

1. God might be order and Satan, chaos.

However, since total order is stasis and, as far as we're concerned, stasis is not all that great, then.

2. God is a productive balance of order and chaos while Satan is imbalance - the extremes, being too wild or too controlled.

Where in the bible do the scriptures say this?

Are you INTERPRETING?

Why would any of only consider the existence of ultimate universal entities in terms of the notions of primitive people millennia ago?

The Bible's God is far from the only deity posited by humans and, as you know, if you scratch the surface of believers you will find that many disagree significantly as to the nature of their deity. So, simply, forget 'em. The Abrahamc deities should be no more relevant to this discussion Odin, Zeus or the Rainbow Serpent.

We can do much better such superstition with what we have learned over the last few thousand years. Order and chaos, make more sense. It won't be any kind of ultimate answer but it'll be a damn sight closer than ancient anthropomorphisms.

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 am I'm thinking that we have two possibilities to ease away from Iron Age language:

1. God might be order and Satan, chaos.

However, since total order is stasis and, as far as we're concerned, stasis is not all that great, then.

2. God is a productive balance of order and chaos while Satan is imbalance - the extremes, being too wild or too controlled.

As a metaphor this makes a lot more sense than believing the actual story. Ancient narratives and beliefs are much more valuable to the present when interpreted rather than believed in since the psychology which created those stories hasn't changed. We are still enthralled by super-humans and gods.

Greta wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:39 am

-1- wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:28 am

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 am I'm thinking that we have two possibilities to ease away from Iron Age language:

1. God might be order and Satan, chaos.

However, since total order is stasis and, as far as we're concerned, stasis is not all that great, then.

2. God is a productive balance of order and chaos while Satan is imbalance - the extremes, being too wild or too controlled.

Where in the bible do the scriptures say this?

Are you INTERPRETING?

Why would any of only consider the existence of ultimate universal entities in terms of the notions of primitive people millennia ago?

The Bible's God is far from the only deity posited by humans and, as you know, if you scratch the surface of believers you will find that many disagree significantly as to the nature of their deity. So, simply, forget 'em. The Abrahamc deities should be no more relevant to this discussion Odin, Zeus or the Rainbow Serpent.

We can do much better such superstition with what we have learned over the last few thousand years. Order and chaos, make more sense. It won't be any kind of ultimate answer but it'll be a damn sight closer than ancient anthropomorphisms.

I only said what I said because the words god and esp. satan occurred first in the bible.

But now that we have free range to interpret it in what- and whichever way we can, god is my dog when she walks backwards and satan is my mother-in-law. Period, end of discussion...

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:40 am

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 am I'm thinking that we have two possibilities to ease away from Iron Age language:

1. God might be order and Satan, chaos.

However, since total order is stasis and, as far as we're concerned, stasis is not all that great, then.

2. God is a productive balance of order and chaos while Satan is imbalance - the extremes, being too wild or too controlled.

As a metaphor this makes a lot more sense than believing the actual story. Ancient narratives and beliefs are much more valuable to the present when interpreted rather than believed in since the psychology which created those stories hasn't changed. We are still enthralled by super-humans and gods.

Yeah, interpreted... there are a thousand and one differtent interpretations to every so-called metaphor. Which means that the whole thing is shmafu. When they first wrote the Word, people believed it at face value. Now we can't, in face of enormous amounts of evidence that render the stories meaningless. But some still want to believe the stories... so they "interpret" them.

That's about the size of it.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:38 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:39 pm

thedoc wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:45 pm Neither entity has control of our thinking but either can suggest ways of thinking to the individual

There is no either. ..and the one you believe in, the 'benevolent' one ---actually sometimes does control ones thinking.

How is that done exactly and what of our free will and the heavenly law of not interfering in another's free will?

Regards
DL

God has ultimate control over all matter that we perceive and all matter that we perceive with (our brains).
'It' doesn't continuously control everything within our reality and our brains, but if and when 'it' wants to, it can, and does.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:19 am

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:38 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:39 pm

There is no either. ..and the one you believe in, the 'benevolent' one ---actually sometimes does control ones thinking.

How is that done exactly and what of our free will and the heavenly law of not interfering in another's free will?

Regards
DL

God has ultimate control over all matter that we perceive and all matter that we perceive with (our brains).
'It' doesn't continuously control everything within our reality and our brains, but if and when 'it' wants to, it can, and does.

Really. You have evidence of this do you?
Such a thing would happen in your mind.

Tell us what god, which you describe as an it did to you and not anyone else.

Regards
DL