Theists Leaped into La La Land

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Veritas Aequitas
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Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:52 am

Thesis: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Here is an interesting reference from Bertrand Russell to support the above thesis.
Bertrand Russell wrote:THE conceptions of life and the world which we call "philosophical" are a product of two factors: one, inherited religious and ethical conceptions; the other, the sort of investigation which may be called "scientific," using this word in its broadest sense. Individual philosophers have differed widely in regard to the proportions in which these two factors entered into their systems, but it is the presence of both, in some degree, that characterizes philosophy.

"Philosophy" is a word which has been used in many ways, some wider, some narrower. I propose to use it in a very wide sense, which I will now try to explain.

Philosophy, as I shall understand the word, is something intermediate between theology and science. Like theology, it consists of speculations on matters as to which definite knowledge has, so far, been unascertainable; but like science, it appeals to human reason rather than to authority, whether that of tradition or that of revelation.

All definite knowledge--so I should contend-belongs to science;
all dogma as to what surpasses definite knowledge belongs to theology.
But between theology and science there is a No Man's Land, exposed to attack from both sides; this No Man's Land is philosophy.

Almost all the questions of most interest to speculative minds are such as science cannot answer, and the confident answers of theologians no longer seem so convincing as they did in former centuries.

.....

Science tells us what we can know, but what we can know is little, and if we forget how much we cannot know we become insensitive to many things of very great importance.

Theology, on the other hand, induces a dogmatic belief that we have knowledge where in fact we have ignorance, and by doing so generates a kind of impertinent insolence towards the universe.
Uncertainty, in the presence of vivid hopes and fears, is painful, but must be endured if we wish to live without the support of comforting fairy tales.
It is not good either to forget the questions that philosophy asks, or to persuade ourselves that we have found indubitable answers to them.

To teach how to live without certainty, and yet without being paralyzed by hesitation, is perhaps the chief thing that philosophy, in our age, can still do for those who study it.

Introduction - The History of Western Philosophy
Russell believes the task of philosophy [critical thinking, etc.] explore the No-Man's-Land while anchored on the definite knowledge of Science and other faculty of knowledge.

Theists relying on theology - unanchored on definite knowledge - take the big leap across
the No-Man's-Land to the LA LA LAND of the certainty of a dogmatic belief that they have knowledge where in fact they have ignorance.

This is why theists are never able to prove the existence of God as real or even possible because there is no tracks to trace back to any grounds of definite knowledge.

Agree?

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by attofishpi » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:32 am

You are truly a thread spammer arn't you! On a mission it seems.

Have a look here at my site - www.androcies.com - ENTER through the central 'Beyond Reasonable Doubt?' link

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:48 am

attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:32 am
You are truly a thread spammer arn't you! On a mission it seems.

Have a look here at my site - www.androcies.com - ENTER through the central 'Beyond Reasonable Doubt?' link
Nope.
I believe it is the case of others not being actively raising threads and not participating to make the site active.
If all those who participate were to raise two threads a month, then my threads would be seen relatively lesser.
What I have raised is very rational and supported by evidences and references and I believe they are of a reasonable philosophical reality. Why not give your rational counters for discussion sake.

If I am an owner of a Forum it is obvious I would want the forum to be "active" with quality discussions.

I had a glance of your site.
nb: I was a pantheist - Vedanta based - for a long time and had graduated to being non-a-theist.
Btw, why are you and what are the purpose/benefits of you being panentheist?
Do you think you will lose anything if you are not a panentheist?
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by attofishpi » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:54 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:48 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:32 am
You are truly a thread spammer arn't you! On a mission it seems.

Have a look here at my site - www.androcies.com - ENTER through the central 'Beyond Reasonable Doubt?' link
Nope.
I believe it is the case of others not being actively raising threads and not participating to make the site active.
If all those who participate were to raise two threads a month, then my threads would be seen relatively lesser.
What I have raised is very rational and supported by evidences and references and I believe they are of a reasonable philosophical reality. Why not give your rational counters for discussion sake.

If I am an owner of a Forum it is obvious I would want the forum to be "active" with quality discussions.

I will have a look at your site.
You think you espouse rationale yet you all your threads are essentially the same - arrogant bagging of theists. Why not stick to one thread where you can flesh it out? That site is old -and since i've learned more of the 3rd party entity - needs a big update.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:56 am

attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:54 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:48 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:32 am
You are truly a thread spammer arn't you! On a mission it seems.

Have a look here at my site - www.androcies.com - ENTER through the central 'Beyond Reasonable Doubt?' link
Nope.
I believe it is the case of others not being actively raising threads and not participating to make the site active.
If all those who participate were to raise two threads a month, then my threads would be seen relatively lesser.
What I have raised is very rational and supported by evidences and references and I believe they are of a reasonable philosophical reality. Why not give your rational counters for discussion sake.

If I am an owner of a Forum it is obvious I would want the forum to be "active" with quality discussions.

I will have a look at your site.
You think you espouse rationale yet you all your threads are essentially the same - arrogant bagging of theists. Why not stick to one thread where you can flesh it out? That site is old -and since i've learned more of the 3rd party entity - needs a big update.
Nb: I added the following;

I had a glance of your site.
nb: I was a pantheist - Vedanta based - for a long time and had graduated to being non-a-theist.
Btw, why are you and what are the purpose/benefits of you being panentheist?
Do you think you will lose anything if you are not a panentheist?

The issue of the idea of God is very complex, contentious and has not been resolved since the idea of God first emerged thousands of years ago, thus we need to address it from many perspectives.

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by attofishpi » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:01 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:56 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:54 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:48 am

Nope.
I believe it is the case of others not being actively raising threads and not participating to make the site active.
If all those who participate were to raise two threads a month, then my threads would be seen relatively lesser.
What I have raised is very rational and supported by evidences and references and I believe they are of a reasonable philosophical reality. Why not give your rational counters for discussion sake.

If I am an owner of a Forum it is obvious I would want the forum to be "active" with quality discussions.

I will have a look at your site.
You think you espouse rationale yet you all your threads are essentially the same - arrogant bagging of theists. Why not stick to one thread where you can flesh it out? That site is old -and since i've learned more of the 3rd party entity - needs a big update.
Nb: I added the following;

I had a glance of your site.
nb: I was a pantheist - Vedanta based - for a long time and had graduated to being non-a-theist.
Btw, why are you and what are the purpose/benefits of you being panentheist?
Do you think you will lose anything if you are not a panentheist?
Panenetheism, from my experience of this 3rd party entity, is the best glove that fits. The problem is when looking as pantheism\panentheism on WIKI for example - that it has a vast range of beliefs, not all would fit the glove.
What do you mean, lose anything? - I don't believe a good person, atheist or other, will lose anything where 'God' is involved.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:09 am

attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:01 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:56 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:54 am


You think you espouse rationale yet you all your threads are essentially the same - arrogant bagging of theists. Why not stick to one thread where you can flesh it out? That site is old -and since i've learned more of the 3rd party entity - needs a big update.
Nb: I added the following;

I had a glance of your site.
nb: I was a pantheist - Vedanta based - for a long time and had graduated to being non-a-theist.
Btw, why are you and what are the purpose/benefits of you being panentheist?
Do you think you will lose anything if you are not a panentheist?
Panenetheism, from my experience of this 3rd party entity, is the best glove that fits. The problem is when looking as pantheism\panentheism on WIKI for example - that it has a vast range of beliefs, not all would fit the glove.
What do you mean, lose anything? - I don't believe a good person, atheist or other, will lose anything where 'God' is involved.
I meant if you for some reasons give up the idea of believing in a God, in your case the panentheistic God.

What do you lose if you shift from being a panentheist to being someone who do not believe in any God?
Surely there is a difference, i.e. that put you in a better position of being a panentheist than being a non-theist?

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by attofishpi » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:13 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:09 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:01 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:56 am

Nb: I added the following;

I had a glance of your site.
nb: I was a pantheist - Vedanta based - for a long time and had graduated to being non-a-theist.
Btw, why are you and what are the purpose/benefits of you being panentheist?
Do you think you will lose anything if you are not a panentheist?
Panenetheism, from my experience of this 3rd party entity, is the best glove that fits. The problem is when looking as pantheism\panentheism on WIKI for example - that it has a vast range of beliefs, not all would fit the glove.
What do you mean, lose anything? - I don't believe a good person, atheist or other, will lose anything where 'God' is involved.
I meant if you for some reasons give up the idea of believing in a God, in your case the panentheistic God.

What do you lose if you shift from being a panentheist to being someone who do not believe in any God?
Surely there is a difference, i.e. that put you in a better position of being a panentheist than being a non-theist?
You obviously don't understand what i've been saying: I KNOW God exists, so how the flying figtree could I then become an atheist?

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 am

attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:13 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:09 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:01 am


Panenetheism, from my experience of this 3rd party entity, is the best glove that fits. The problem is when looking as pantheism\panentheism on WIKI for example - that it has a vast range of beliefs, not all would fit the glove.
What do you mean, lose anything? - I don't believe a good person, atheist or other, will lose anything where 'God' is involved.
I meant if you for some reasons give up the idea of believing in a God, in your case the panentheistic God.

What do you lose if you shift from being a panentheist to being someone who do not believe in any God?
Surely there is a difference, i.e. that put you in a better position of being a panentheist than being a non-theist?
You obviously don't understand what i've been saying: I KNOW God exists, so how the flying figtree could I then become an atheist?
Note I mentioned "if" above, so it is hypothetical.
So why do you think it is more favorable [if any] being a panentheist than not being one, i.e. as a non-theist.

Note non-theists exist, so why is that you do not agree or be like them?

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by attofishpi » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:45 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:13 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:09 am

I meant if you for some reasons give up the idea of believing in a God, in your case the panentheistic God.

What do you lose if you shift from being a panentheist to being someone who do not believe in any God?
Surely there is a difference, i.e. that put you in a better position of being a panentheist than being a non-theist?
You obviously don't understand what i've been saying: I KNOW God exists, so how the flying figtree could I then become an atheist?
Note I mentioned "if" above, so it is hypothetical.
So why do you think it is more favorable [if any] being a panentheist than not being one, i.e. as a non-theist.
Doesn't 'Non-theist'=atheist?
There is nothing more 'favourable' about being a panentheist, as I have already said, I found it the best glove that fits.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 am
Note non-theists exist, so why is that you do not agree or be like them?
You really are asking me the impossible to answer...again, I know God exists.

I think English is probably your second language, so I apologise if I am not understanding your line of questioning.

I've got to get back to my painting, so will have to go.

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am

attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:45 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:13 am


You obviously don't understand what i've been saying: I KNOW God exists, so how the flying figtree could I then become an atheist?
Note I mentioned "if" above, so it is hypothetical.
So why do you think it is more favorable [if any] being a panentheist than not being one, i.e. as a non-theist.
Doesn't 'Non-theist'=atheist?
There is nothing more 'favourable' about being a panentheist, as I have already said, I found it the best glove that fits.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 am
Note non-theists exist, so why is that you do not agree or be like them?
You really are asking me the impossible to answer...again, I know God exists.

I think English is probably your second language, so I apologise if I am not understanding your line of questioning.

I've got to get back to my painting, so will have to go.
Maybe it is more difficult for a panentheist to differentiate between believing God exists and not believing God exists.

However, I believe a theist like a Christian will be able to provide me an answer easily.
A theistic Christian will definitely refuse to be a non-theist [atheist] because to them non-theists [atheists] are followers of Satan, lack moral commandments, will definitely go to and be burnt in Hell and laden with all sort of evil potentials.

My counter is, the above that the non-theist is satanic and loaded with negatives is not true.
The reasons why a theist [Christian or Muslims] will not give up theism is because they are clinging to God as their psychological crutch. Giving up theism will make them very psychologically uneasy, flooded with existential anxieties, fear of ending up in Hell, no salvation, etc.

As for a panentheist, their clinging to a belief i.e.g God exists, is also due to the need for a psychological crutch but in a much lesser degree than theists like Christians, or Muslims.
Panentheists will feel uneasy if they were to give up the belief, God exists.

The idea of 'God exists' for the panentheist is basically a thought only since there is no threat of being burnt in HELL. So why it is so difficult for a panentheist to give up in believing a God exists?
The reason is the need for psychological security and comfort from an inherent existential crisis in a subliminal level.
This clinging to God exists is actually a burden and can be a liability in certain circumstances.
I have been through this as a pantheist thus expressing my views from my past experiences.
Do you dispute this?

Note in the case of Buddhism-proper where Buddhism in dealing with that inherent existential crisis, give up the idea of 'God exists' totally so there is no dependent on and the need to defend that burdensome idea. Buddhism relied on the non-theistic Middle-Path to deal with the inherent existential crisis.

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by Reflex » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:26 am

My heavens, attofishpi. You still paying attention to that nutcase?

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by attofishpi » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:24 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:45 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 am

Note I mentioned "if" above, so it is hypothetical.
So why do you think it is more favorable [if any] being a panentheist than not being one, i.e. as a non-theist.
Doesn't 'Non-theist'=atheist?
There is nothing more 'favourable' about being a panentheist, as I have already said, I found it the best glove that fits.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 am
Note non-theists exist, so why is that you do not agree or be like them?
You really are asking me the impossible to answer...again, I know God exists.

I think English is probably your second language, so I apologise if I am not understanding your line of questioning.

I've got to get back to my painting, so will have to go.
Maybe it is more difficult for a panentheist to differentiate between believing God exists and not believing God exists.
However, I believe a theist like a Christian will be able to provide me an answer easily.
Answering a question is easy, it's whether the one asking the question has the intelligence to understand the answer, and without bias.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
A theistic Christian will definitely refuse to be a non-theist [atheist] because to them non-theists [atheists] are followers of Satan, lack moral commandments, will definitely go to and be burnt in Hell and laden with all sort of evil potentials.
Are you truly that stupid that theists believe atheists follow satan? Rhetorical question, you truly are.
Stop with your preconceived ill considered ideas floating around what surely is an empty space between your ears.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
My counter is, the above that the non-theist is satanic and loaded with negatives is not true.
Your 'counter' is irrelevant, because your statement was ridiculous.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
The reasons why a theist [Christian or Muslims] will not give up theism is because they are clinging to God as their psychological crutch. Giving up theism will make them very psychologically uneasy, flooded with existential anxieties, fear of ending up in Hell, no salvation, etc.
Years ago I read an article that stated that about 20% of theists believe there is a hell, and not much more believed there is a heaven.
You think theists cling to their faith because of hell, and that's your psychological angle on the whole affair! You must be joking. Billions of paranoid people according to you!
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
As for a panentheist, their clinging to a belief i.e.g God exists, is also due to the need for a psychological crutch but in a much lesser degree than theists like Christians, or Muslims.
Panentheists will feel uneasy if they were to give up the belief, God exists.
I'm a Christian and a Panentheist, i'm just unique in that I don't believe, I know.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
The idea of 'God exists' for the panentheist is basically a thought only since there is no threat of being burnt in HELL. So why it is so difficult for a panentheist to give up in believing a God exists?
Belief in God does not mean you believe in HELL. It also doesn't mean that they believe atheists go to hell. Do you live in USA or have been watching a lot of their idiot pastor evengelicalists blabbing their short sighted bullshit?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
The reason is the need for psychological security and comfort from an inherent existential crisis in a subliminal level.
This clinging to God exists is actually a burden and can be a liability in certain circumstances.
I have been through this as a pantheist thus expressing my views from my past experiences.
Do you dispute this?
No, I don't dispute that you have been paranoid about burning in hell.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
Note in the case of Buddhism-proper where Buddhism in dealing with that inherent existential crisis, give up the idea of 'God exists' totally so there is no dependent on and the need to defend that burdensome idea. Buddhism relied on the non-theistic Middle-Path to deal with the inherent existential crisis.
Oh, so happy for the buddists, but I feel you still carry your paranoia of burning in hell since becoming atheist.
Perhaps that is the true reason you are thread spamming your ridiculous outdated views of God, in the hope that the rationale of some theist, of a lesser intelligence than yourself, might still permit you to believe that there is no God.
Trust me, YOU ARE GOING TO BURN IN HELL.
:twisted:
Last edited by attofishpi on Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by attofishpi » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:24 pm

Reflex wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:26 am
My heavens, attofishpi. You still paying attention to that nutcase?
Because his thread spamming is pissing me off, hopefully when he realises he is an idiot in all his own threads, he might stop.

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Re: Theists Leaped into La La Land

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:53 am

attofishpi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:24 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am
A theistic Christian will definitely refuse to be a non-theist [atheist] because to them non-theists [atheists] are followers of Satan, lack moral commandments, will definitely go to and be burnt in Hell and laden with all sort of evil potentials.
Are you truly that stupid that theists believe atheists follow satan? Rhetorical question, you truly are.
Stop with your preconceived ill considered ideas floating around what surely is an empty space between your ears.
Who is actually the stupid one?

I did state ALL theists.
If you choose not to agree with the NT, that is your personal beliefs.
By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan. It is very common for theists to accuse atheists for lack of moral fundamentals and other negative/derogatory behaviors.
The anti-non_theists is more pronounced in the Quran.

Note my main point is there are some basic reasons why theists are not non-theists.

You did not understand my main point so I have to give examples.
Then you jumped on my examples.

If you do not agree with my examples, then what is your reason why you have the preference for theism rather than non-theism.

Your off tangent condemnations above indicate you're getting emotional and expose the fundamental reason of theism, i.e. it has a psychological basis for one's own selfish existential reasons. When such emotions are triggered, survival come first thus critical thinking and rational thinking go out of the window.

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