What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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gaffo
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:00 am

HexHammer wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:34 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:45 am
What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?
I think it's the prophets that has to prove themselves else they get stoned
per the arc if history, i think the greatest prophets were stoned in spite of/do to their message.

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-1-
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by -1- » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:12 am

What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

You are free to shape an imaginary God in any way, in order to maximize your control over the masses.

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Lacewing
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Lacewing » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:25 am

Feeling bigger and better than your "small" self: feeling empowered and "good".

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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by -1- » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:21 am

Lacewing wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:25 am
Feeling bigger and better than your "small" self: feeling empowered and "good".
Funny thing... I of course believe you feel that way, no arguments here. But for me to have a bigger and better something out there gives me the feeling of even more dwarfed than otherwise.

In other words, I like being top dog, or in the least, being an independent dog. The knowledge of a topper over me gives me the heebee-jeebees.

Call me a control freak, but a bigger, better, more efficient "me" over me takes the fun out living for me. I like the struggle, I like the fact that I can claim both blame for failure and pride for success, without needing to share it with any big supernatural racketeering sort of feller or woman. I do it without their help, so help me God. (Figure of speech, appropriate for humour value only.)

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HexHammer
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by HexHammer » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:53 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:00 am
per the arc if history, i think the greatest prophets were stoned in spite of/do to their message.
Which?

Logik
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Logik » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:53 pm

-1- wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:21 am
Call me a control freak, but a bigger, better, more efficient "me" over me takes the fun out living for me. I like the struggle, I like the fact that I can claim both blame for failure and pride for success, without needing to share it with any big supernatural racketeering sort of feller or woman. I do it without their help, so help me God. (Figure of speech, appropriate for humour value only.)
The price you pay for taking the burden of counter-factual thinking upon yourself is..... higher risk of depression!

Or as your grandmother would say (because psychologists are unreliable pseudo-scientists) ignorance is bliss!

Fucking literally. Dogmatists are happier and live longer. Talk about a counter-evolutionary strategy.

Then again. You are only supposed to live long enough to spread your seed...

Walker
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Walker » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:12 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:00 am
HexHammer wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:34 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:45 am
What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?
I think it's the prophets that has to prove themselves else they get stoned
per the arc if history, i think the greatest prophets were stoned in spite of/do to their message.
Don't you mean, because of their message?

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Lacewing
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Lacewing » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:02 pm

-1- wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:21 am
Lacewing wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:25 am
Feeling bigger and better than your "small" self: feeling empowered and "good".
Funny thing... I of course believe you feel that way, no arguments here. But for me to have a bigger and better something out there gives me the feeling of even more dwarfed than otherwise.
I totally get what you're saying. And yes, it IS a funny thing. (I was not describing myself...I was just answering the question based on what I've perceived of many believers.) The desire to feel bigger (through a god) can be because someone feels small and weak. So they feel more protected by embracing such an idea.

For those who tend more toward being fiercely independent, and feeling empowered despite surrounding influences, the idea of an all-powerful and commanding god is oppressive and unwelcome -- as well as making no sense. What makes more sense to me (for example) is that there's VAST ENERGY being expressed through all of us, as countless manifestations. That (too) can be empowering because it suggests that all possibilities are available, so why not CHOOSE/CREATE from the limitless... instead of feeling consigned to a certain groove?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:16 pm

It is unavoidable and the foundation for all justification as any anti-theism requires the embodiment of certain theistic qualities in and of itself. Theism effectively is a law of awareness in certain respects.

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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by -1- » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:45 am

Logik wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:53 pm
-1- wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:21 am
Call me a control freak, but a bigger, better, more efficient "me" over me takes the fun out living for me. I like the struggle, I like the fact that I can claim both blame for failure and pride for success, without needing to share it with any big supernatural racketeering sort of feller or woman. I do it without their help, so help me God. (Figure of speech, appropriate for humour value only.)
The price you pay for taking the burden of counter-factual thinking upon yourself is..... higher risk of depression!

Or as your grandmother would say (because psychologists are unreliable pseudo-scientists) ignorance is bliss!

Fucking literally. Dogmatists are happier and live longer. Talk about a counter-evolutionary strategy.

Then again. You are only supposed to live long enough to spread your seed...
What sort of a fugging bullshit is this, Logik? You need to bridge for yourself the issues, because you are just idle-worshipping your idol, your own voice, and you say nothing here.

My suspicion is now high that you suffer badly from narcissistic personality disorder, and you are thrown into a narcissistic rage when you talk to me.

I am not trained in psychiatry, this is the opinion of an experienced layman.

Logik
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Logik » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:59 am

-1- wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:45 am
What sort of a fugging bullshit is this, Logik? You need to bridge for yourself the issues, because you are just idle-worshipping your idol, your own voice, and you say nothing here.

My suspicion is now high that you suffer badly from narcissistic personality disorder, and you are thrown into a narcissistic rage when you talk to me.

I am not trained in psychiatry, this is the opinion of an experienced layman.
Is the google failing you?

Counter-factual thinking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfactual_thinking

Frequently associated with goal-directed activity:
In the same sense as behavior intention, people tend to use counterfactual thinking in goal-directed activity. Past studies have shown that counterfactuals serve a preparative function on both individual and group level. When people fail to achieve their goals, counterfactual thinking will be activated (e.g., studying more after a disappointing grade;[14]). When they engage in upward counterfactual thinking, people are able to imagine alternatives with better positive outcomes. The outcome seems worse when compared to positive alternative outcomes. This realization motivates them to take positive action in order to meet their goal in the future.

When thinking of downward counterfactual thinking, or ways that the situation could have turned out worse, people tend to feel a sense of relief. For example, if after getting into a car accident somebody thinks "At least I wasn't speeding, then my car would have been totaled." This allows for consideration of the positives of the situation, rather than the negatives. In the case of upward counterfactual thinking, people tend to feel more negative affect (e.g., regret, disappointment) about the situation. When thinking in this manner, people focus on ways that the situation could have turned out more positively: for example, "If only I had studied more, then I wouldn't have failed my test"
TL;DR There is a lot of parallels with "claim both blame for failure and pride for success" mindset which you apparently cherish.

This "it's all my fault or all my success" mindset correlates with higher rates of depression. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ke ... r-Whom.pdf

And if you carry on down that rabbit hole - you will find out that religious people are (on average) less stressed/depressed/anxious. Also - live longer (correlation or causation?).

That's what I am on about.

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HexHammer
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by HexHammer » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:06 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:45 am
What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?
It often brings order to society, and if it's a benin religion people will behave and act accordingly. Once common christians was honest and trustworthy people.

gaffo
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:02 am

HexHammer wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:53 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:00 am
per the arc if history, i think the greatest prophets were stoned in spite of/do to their message.
Which?
well the obvious one Jesus - but he was kill for insurrection to roman rule (imo) - his message rankled the Sedusee Roman puppets, so both the Sedusees and Romans were fine with ridding him

Jeremiah - not stoned AFAIK, but shuned by his fellows.

Amos, the same as Jeremiah.

ok, point taken and i exagerated thier fate, outside of Jesus, the other prophets were not killed, just shunned for being "downers" of their time.

"a prophet is hated in his own land" remains a apt concept IMO.

the more hated they were in thier time, the more weight i give to their message myself.

gaffo
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:05 am

Walker wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:12 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:00 am
HexHammer wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:34 pm
I think it's the prophets that has to prove themselves else they get stoned
per the arc if history, i think the greatest prophets were stoned in spite of/do to their message.
Don't you mean, because of their message?
yes, thanks for clarification! Amos is my fav prophet BTW.

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HexHammer
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by HexHammer » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:04 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:02 am
HexHammer wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:53 pm
Which?
well the obvious one Jesus - but he was kill for insurrection to roman rule (imo) - his message rankled the Seducer Roman puppets, so both the Sadducees and Romans were fine with ridding him[/quote]Must disagree, Jesus got crucified which is FAR worse than stoning, but he ONLY was there 1h before been taken down, so it was staged, NO ONE only hangs on a cross for 1 h, you easily hang there for a month if not more!!! Which is why he could do his "miraculous" resurrection.

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