What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Veritas Aequitas
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What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:45 am

There are always pros and cons to an idea or concept.
What do you think is the greatest pro [to the individual or humanity] of theism?

My view;
The greatest pro that is most significant and carry the heaviest weightage is, the belief in an idea of God enable the relieving and soothing of the terrible psychological desperation and pains oozing from an inherent existential crisis within the individual.
In this regard, theism is a very personal and very selfish impulse.

Whatever other pros [e.g. crude morality, tribalistic community, etc.] are secondary and carry lesser weightages.
Point is, the current trend is the cons of theism are outweighing the pros of theism going into the future with the underlying easy availability of nukes & WMDs and with a God that has no restraints on the use of WMDs.

Skip
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Skip » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:52 am

For the elite, control of the masses.
For the masses: somebody else taking responsibility.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:38 am

Nice churches.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:45 am

Point is;
If the pros of theism are so minimal i.e. not net-positive then we could eliminate theism?

TimeSeeker
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by TimeSeeker » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:46 am

It has survived the test of time. And if you care about "evidence" and "statistical significance" that's a big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:54 am

TimeSeeker wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:46 am
It has survived the test of time. And if you care about "evidence" and "statistical significance" that's a big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect
Against what standard?

Note the percentage of non-theism is on the increase since 2500 years ago when non-theistic Buddhism emerged into the spiritual scene, then came communism and others.
I don't have actual statistics, but it is obvious we hear more voices [books, forums, News, etc.] from atheists as compared to the last 100 years.

If this is the trend, theism will soon be reduced to a small minority in the future.

TimeSeeker
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by TimeSeeker » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:57 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:54 am
TimeSeeker wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:46 am
It has survived the test of time. And if you care about "evidence" and "statistical significance" that's a big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect
Against what standard?
Resilience against time (entropy). Endurance in the face of natural selection.

Robustness.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:01 am

Generally the pros of theism are the following;
  • 1. Reinforcement of morality - but I argued that is pseudo-morality.
    2. Promotion of charities - there are secular charities
Here is one list;
Here is another list

Benefits of Theism:
  • 1. Less stress - you don't have to worry about stuff you can't control, like the fate of the world or the fundamental pointlessness of working 8 hours so you can afford a tv to watch Baywatch on. Religous people, like prisoners, live longer because they stress less.

    2. Emotional protection - you have a shield against the suffering of your nieghbors. Cripples and victims are not moral outrages, but simply part of God's plan. Hence, you needn't worry about them or about it happening to you.

    3. Pack identification - an easy way to tell who can be trusted and who can be beaten and robbed. All the people in your religion are automatically good people on your side, and all the other people are fish for the taking.

    4. Political power - it allows you to enforce your personal or community goals even when you can't come up with a rational argument for your goals. Even when those smart-asses point out rational reasons against your goals.

    5. Personal power - you may not be smart enough to argue with the literati, but your emotional sincerity can put you on equal footing.

    6. Ego - God, the Creator, the Big Kahuna, is your personal friend. Not in a general way, but in an immediate, personal way. Like a best friend, he shares your views on everything. He validates your every position, backs your every move, and laughs with you when fools try act like they might have a clue. (Fools being defined as anyone who doesn't know what you know, and what you know is always right, because God knows it too).

    7. Cheap drugs - getting high on god gives you that special feeling that runners and junkies live for - the magic endorphin fix, courtesy of your brain. And it costs less (unless you got unlucky and signed up for a cult). It's as good for you as sex, but without the risk of pregnancy. It's better for you than smack or crack (although not quite as intense). Like booze, it makes everyone at the party your special friend, but without the throwing up on your shoes part.

    8. Reality modification - all of the above combine to allow you to corrupt reality in such a way that you can ignore the pointless random existential angst of existance, and focus on feeling good.

    (Note: contrary to popular belief, theism does NOT protect you against the emotional effects of tragedy. People who believe in God actually suffer more when bad things happen to them, becuase they add on feelings of guilt or inadequacy that God deserted/punished them.)
    http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st_old.gif

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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by -1- » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:06 am

Philosophically speaking: The biggest pro of theism is that god's existence can't be disproven. Religions' indidvidual tenets can be disproven, the fact that god communicates to humans can be disproven, but god's existence can't be disproven (or proven). Otherwise god would not have a leg to stand on.

The next biggest pro is sex. Sex with god. Go ask Mary. You wouldn't believe the orgasm you can achieve when god makes love to you.

TimeSeeker
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by TimeSeeker » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:08 am

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is" translates neatly into

"In general there are no differences between the general and the particular. But in particular there are."

The test of time is a higher bar for evidence than any human study. Simply on the grounds of significantly larger sample size and experiment duration!

Any statistician knows this. https://select-statistics.co.uk/blog/im ... mple-size/

HexHammer
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by HexHammer » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:34 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:45 am
What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?
I think it's the prophets that has to prove themselves else they get stoned, when they have they can speak on behalf of god.
The distinction must be made that in the bible there are historians which and not prophets.

gaffo
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:38 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:45 am
There are always pros and cons to an idea or concept.
What do you think is the greatest pro [to the individual or humanity] of theism?

My view;
The greatest pro that is most significant and carry the heaviest weightage is, the belief in an idea of God enable the relieving and soothing of the terrible psychological desperation and pains oozing from an inherent existential crisis within the individual.
In this regard, theism is a very personal and very selfish impulse.
yes "my god feels my pain and cares" (and the assumption is "He" is just too - i.e. so he cares of about my pain (and it that pain is part of the bigger divine picture), does not dance over it)

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:45 am
Whatever other pros [e.g. crude morality, tribalistic community, etc.] are secondary and carry lesser weightages.
Point is, the current trend is the cons of theism are outweighing the pros of theism going into the future with the underlying easy availability of nukes & WMDs and with a God that has no restraints on the use of WMDs.
???????? no clue of your above.

that i hate about Religion is "my god is not yours, so you burn for unbelief".

atheist as you should know by now.

so no dog in which god fight.

i;l fight for the just God/s - but there may be none also. then i'm just fked. I can't make God/s just if they ain't.

its folly/only fools speak for God/s - to know the mind of God/s, i leave proclaimation of the mind of God to fools, and for me to ignore.

gaffo
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:41 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:45 am
Point is;
If the pros of theism are so minimal i.e. not net-positive then we could eliminate theism?
yes ok by me.

man is by default "good" via his DNA as a social animal.

he is the same be he a Believer or an Atheist.

Character/morality is inborn, not based upon belief in any God/s.

gaffo
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Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:47 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:54 am
TimeSeeker wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:46 am
It has survived the test of time. And if you care about "evidence" and "statistical significance" that's a big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect
Against what standard?

Note the percentage of non-theism is on the increase since 2500 years ago when non-theistic Buddhism emerged into the spiritual scene, then came communism and others.
I don't have actual statistics, but it is obvious we hear more voices [books, forums, News, etc.] from atheists as compared to the last 100 years.

If this is the trend, theism will soon be reduced to a small minority in the future.
ok by me.

you? welcome discussion.

gaffo
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Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: What is the Greatest Pro of Theism?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:57 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:01 am
Generally the pros of theism are the following;
  • 1. Reinforcement of morality - but I argued that is pseudo-morality.
    2. Promotion of charities - there are secular charities
Here is one list;
Here is another list

Benefits of Theism:
  • 1. Less stress - you don't have to worry about stuff you can't control, like the fate of the world or the fundamental pointlessness of working 8 hours so you can afford a tv to watch Baywatch on. Religous people, like prisoners, live longer because they stress less.
don't see this as a humble atheist. if affirm no control over the events of this world.

so conform to the religious view.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:01 am
2. Emotional protection - you have a shield against the suffering of your nieghbors. Cripples and victims are not moral outrages, but simply part of God's plan. Hence, you needn't worry about them or about it happening to you.

maybe so, sick are sick due to sin - per bible view.

though Job counters this view...............most christians do not understand message of Job, so maybe your point is apt.

the sick sinned and disserve their sicknesses. placed upon them for their sins.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:01 am
6. Ego - God, the Creator, the Big Kahuna, is your personal friend. Not in a general way, but in an immediate, personal way. Like a best friend, he shares your views on everything. He validates your every position, backs your every move, and laughs with you when fools try act like they might have a clue. (Fools being defined as anyone who doesn't know what you know, and what you know is always right, because God knows it too).

the modern "Self help" western idea of God (Jebus) - per Baptists/pentocostels.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:01 am
(Note: contrary to popular belief, theism does NOT protect you against the emotional effects of tragedy. People who believe in God actually suffer more when bad things happen to them, becuase they add on feelings of guilt or inadequacy that God deserted/punished them.)
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st_old.gif[/list]
per which god - Baptist.pento - yes.

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