TROP is Laden with Evil Elements

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12572
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

TROP is Laden with Evil Elements

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

TROP = The Religion of Peace.
Note this discussion is very objective and academic, i.e. the source of elements discussed are from the religious texts. [subject to translation differences]

TROP is laden with loads of evil elements.
I have done my own research based on the number of verses containing evil laden elements directed at the outgroup, i.e. non-Muslims which is computed at around 54%.

Here are evidence from the internet based on number of words in the core holy texts which conclude 64% the the texts is directed at the Kafir. The term 'kafir' can be quite restricted thus my use of the term 'outgroup' or non-Muslims.

The difference in % is not significant, but what is significant is the minimum is at least > 50%.
Kafir in Koran
Total words in Koran 152,006
Total about Kafirs: 97,583
Percentage: 64.0%

Kafir, Mecca = 66,285 Koran Mecca = 97,184 68.2%
Kafir, Medina = 31,287 Koran Medina = 54,822 57.0%

Textual Units
There is a technical problem in measuring the Koranic text. The usual unit in the Koran is the verse. There is a distinct problem with only using verses to quantify the Koran. A verse is usually a sentence.

We would never attempt to discuss any other ideology by picking a sentence. We need to study ideas and concepts, not disconnected sentences.

Since the longer Koran chapters (Suras) are a collection of topics, most Korans divide the chapter into logical idea/topic units or subjects. The most obvious idea unit is the story. However, there is a unique idea unit in the Koran.

Any reading of the Koran shows that its major topic is the unbeliever, the kafir. There is a pattern to these kafir references. There are usually five elements: the exact identification of the kafir, why they are wrong, the kafir’s punishment, why Mohammed is right and Allah weighs in to praise Mohammed.
These five elements are defined as the Koranic Argument and are a major idea or concept unit. Indeed, most all of the stories are Koranic Arguments. (See appendix for further details.)

Some categories are obvious, such as retold tales from the Jews. But, the less obvious category is Koranic persuasion. The Koran is filled with violent threats against those who do not believe Mohammed and who did not believe the prophets of Allah in the past. If you highlight the violent references to the unbelievers, you will find that there are five elements that accompany the violence:
  • • A description of the threat or violence
    • Who is threatened
    • What they did to deserve the violence
    • How they are wrong
    • Words from Allah to support his messenger, Mohammed


This entire structure is called “Koranic persuasion” and is repeated again and again. The repetition is part of the persuasion, just as repetition is necessary to all persuasion campaigns, e.g. ads and political campaigns.

The Koran of Mecca is an exact record of what took place in the intellectual and political sphere. Koranic persuasion is a recording of actual events of debate and persuasion. In many cases, there are actual quotes of Mohammed’s opponents. The Koran contains an intimate and exact view of Arabian history.

The sura (chapter) and Koranic persuasion are two of the natural organizational elements of the Koran. The element of the verse is useful but it does not allow analysis of ideas and thought. Koranic persuasion allows easy textual analysis of thought, ideas and theme. As a measure of the importance of Koranic persuasion, consider:
See table here;
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/T ... _Koran.pdf

This data mirrors the history of Mohammed’s life. In the Meccan religious phase, the violence took the form of threats of punishment that were to occur after death in Hell. Or the mentioned violence was in ancient history, i.e. the Pharaoh being destroyed because he would not listen to Allah’s prophet, Moses. In Mecca the Koranic violence referred to the far future or the distant past.

However, in Medina, there is less talk about Hell, and much more physical violence against political enemies. The action of jihad replaces the rhetoric of the threat. Approximately two thirds of the Koran of Mecca is devoted to the Koranic persuasion of “listen to Mohammed, the prophet of the only god, Allah, or you will suffer eternal torture in Hell.” When Mohammed achieved political power, the religious threats became political reality. The Koranic persuasion of religion in Mecca became the political practice in Medina.

So there are three major idea/concept units used in this study:
  • the verse,
    the story and
    the Koranic Argument.


If the story is about how Allah destroyed the city because the city would not accept the prophet of Allah, then for measurement purposes, the entire story (idea unit) is counted as being about the kafir.

http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/T ... _Koran.pdf
Following the notes above from page 2 to page 180 is a list of the 3000++ verses that contain elements that are directly targeted at the 'outgroup' i.e. non-Muslims in a range of negative and derogatory mode.

Your views?

Ps, ETA;
My definition of 'evil' is,
evil is the essence of any human act or thought that is net-negative to the well-being of the individual, other individuals or group and therefrom to humanity.
Nb: my concept of evil has nothing to do with theological and ontological evil from Satan, the Devil or Syaitan.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12572
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: TROP is Laden with Evil Elements

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Note,
the first 3 verses in the list are;
  • Mecca
    1:1 In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
    1:2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds. The Compassionate, the Merciful. King of the Judgment Day.
    1:5 Only You do we worship, and to You alone do we ask for help. Keep us on the straight and narrow path. The path of those that You favor; not the path of those who anger You [the Jews] nor the path of those who go astray [the Christians].


Whilst 1:1 and 1:2 do not contain any element of the non-believer, they are a part of the idea [as qualified by the author] of comprising 1:1, 1:2 and 1:5 that implicitly denounced the Jews and the Christians in the context of the whole Quran.

So do not cherry pick to counter the author's point but one need to read the full range of the verses to arrive at the idea or story in relation to the condemnation of the 'outgroup' non-Muslims or Kuffar [kafir].
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: TROP is Laden with Evil Elements

Post by Dontaskme »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:26 am TROP is laden with loads of evil elements.
Says who?

.
Walker
Posts: 14353
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: TROP is Laden with Evil Elements

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:43 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:26 am TROP is laden with loads of evil elements.
Says who?

.
Life says so. Other than in imagination, good and evil are discovered in relationship to life. An action’s impact upon life, within the context of a situation, is the phenomena in which the good or evil of the action is found.

As with mind, good and evil arise with form and manifest in action (karma).
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: TROP is Laden with Evil Elements

Post by Dontaskme »

Walker wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:38 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:43 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:26 am TROP is laden with loads of evil elements.
Says who?

.
Life says so. Other than in imagination, good and evil are discovered in relationship to life. An action’s impact upon life, within the context of a situation, is the phenomena in which the good or evil of the action is found.

As with mind, good and evil arise with form and manifest in action (karma).

So life is evil?

That which is aware of knowledge knows evil and good.

What's aware?

.



“Suffering just means you’re having a bad dream. Happiness means you’re having a good dream. Enlightenment means getting out of the dream altogether.” ― Jed McKenna

.
Walker
Posts: 14353
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: TROP is Laden with Evil Elements

Post by Walker »

If I had meant to say life is evil, I would written, life is evil.

The answer to your question is in what you quoted.

The part after the part that says, other than in imagination.
Post Reply