What if God is weak?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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philosopher
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What if God is weak?

Post by philosopher »

All (or most) religious people consider their deity to be strong, capable of omnipotence.

What if the opposite was the case - that God is only omnibenevolent, but not only does God lack omnipotence, s(he) is completely dependent on human goodwill to survive - in return God gives comfort.

If I had a choice, of which deity I prefer, I definitely do not prefer the alpha male-deity.

I prefer the weak omnibenevolent deity.
Reflex
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by Reflex »

philosopher
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by philosopher »

Reflex wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:18 pm The Weakness of God
I've never heard of that book before, but it sounds interesting. Also, I believe the author might well explain it better than I do.
But I'm judging a book here I have never read.

Perhaps we can have a conversation on this matter, regardless of what this book says? It might help others new to this topic anyway.
seeds
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by seeds »

philosopher wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:48 pm All (or most) religious people consider their deity to be strong, capable of omnipotence.

What if the opposite was the case - that God is only omnibenevolent, but not only does God lack omnipotence, s(he) is completely dependent on human goodwill to survive - in return God gives comfort.

If I had a choice, of which deity I prefer, I definitely do not prefer the alpha male-deity.

I prefer the weak omnibenevolent deity.
How in the world could an entity that is capable of creating the entire universe...

(i.e., a hundred billion galaxies of suns and planets, including all corporeal lifeforms)

...be thought of as being “weak”?

I suggest that you lose the “alpha male” characterization of God and try to envision the literal form of a Being that is not only capable of willfully manipulating the fabric of reality into a context of order that defies our comprehension,...

...but is probably as far above us in scope and consciousness as we are above amoebas.
_______
philosopher
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by philosopher »

seeds wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:28 pm How in the world could an entity that is capable of creating the entire universe...
Why assume God created the universe?
Reflex
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by Reflex »

Here's a review of the book (PDF file).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... sn9AsXW2OB
seeds
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by seeds »

philosopher wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:35 pm
seeds wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:28 pm How in the world could an entity that is capable of creating the entire universe...
Why assume God created the universe?
Why assume God is an “alpha male”?

(Alpha male what? - human? wolf? chimpanzee?)
_______
philosopher
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by philosopher »

seeds wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:45 pm
philosopher wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:35 pm
seeds wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:28 pm How in the world could an entity that is capable of creating the entire universe...
Why assume God created the universe?
Why assume God is an “alpha male”?

(Alpha male what? - human? wolf? chimpanzee?)
_______
Super-human alpha male. I assume Old-Testament God is, because:
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
seeds
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by seeds »

philosopher wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:48 pm
seeds wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:45 pm
philosopher wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:35 pm
Why assume God created the universe?
Why assume God is an “alpha male”?

(Alpha male what? - human? wolf? chimpanzee?)
_______
Super-human alpha male. I assume Old-Testament God is, because:
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
And therein lies your problem, and is precisely why I proposed the following:
seeds wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:28 pm I suggest that you lose the “alpha male” characterization of God and try to envision the literal form of a Being that is not only capable of willfully manipulating the fabric of reality into a context of order that defies our comprehension,...

...but is probably as far above us in scope and consciousness as we are above amoebas.
...of which you hastily ignored in preference to Dawkins’ whinging about mythological nonsense.
_______
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Greta
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by Greta »

seeds wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:28 pm
philosopher wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:48 pm All (or most) religious people consider their deity to be strong, capable of omnipotence.

What if the opposite was the case - that God is only omnibenevolent, but not only does God lack omnipotence, s(he) is completely dependent on human goodwill to survive - in return God gives comfort.

If I had a choice, of which deity I prefer, I definitely do not prefer the alpha male-deity.

I prefer the weak omnibenevolent deity.
How in the world could an entity that is capable of creating the entire universe...

(i.e., a hundred billion galaxies of suns and planets, including all corporeal lifeforms)

...be thought of as being “weak”?
Because this is a shitty low rent universe? :)

Face it, Seeds, this universe is substandard work, just hopeless! Almost all of it just plasma which manages to be both nasty and boring all at once. The rest is either dirty water, dead rock, dusty crap or enough space to keep these pointless objects from bumping into each other too much.

Then we have this place, the Earth, where the whole schema is for everyone to eat everyone else. So then humans emerge to perhaps break the cycle and we turn out to be bigger dickheads than any of them.

The Idiot has had almost 14 billion years to get Its shit together. Should such obvious ineptitude be rewarded with worship?
TimeSeeker
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by TimeSeeker »

seeds wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:28 pm ...be thought of as being “weak”?
Very simply. You ask 'Why did the entity create The Universe?'

Maybe it was just for fun. Or maybe The Universe was useful.

What does an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being use a Universe for?
The exact same thing humans use tools for. To augment our own inadequacies.

If humans can recognize their own inadequacies, then Gods can too ;)

I know why I create "universes" (Computer Simulations) and Artificial Intelligences. So that I can leverage the faster passage of Time in a computer.

Computers do things MUCH faster than human minds can!
Maybe Universes do things MUCH faster than God minds can?
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Lacewing
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by Lacewing »

Greta wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:44 pm this universe is substandard work, just hopeless! Almost all of it just plasma which manages to be both nasty and boring all at once. The rest is either dirty water, dead rock, dusty crap or enough space to keep these pointless objects from bumping into each other too much. Then we have this place, the Earth, where the whole schema is for everyone to eat everyone else.
:lol: :lol: Having a bad day? (No, really, that's hilarious.)
TimeSeeker
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by TimeSeeker »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:38 pm
Greta wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:44 pm this universe is substandard work, just hopeless! Almost all of it just plasma which manages to be both nasty and boring all at once. The rest is either dirty water, dead rock, dusty crap or enough space to keep these pointless objects from bumping into each other too much. Then we have this place, the Earth, where the whole schema is for everyone to eat everyone else.
:lol: :lol: Having a bad day? (No, really, that's hilarious.)
That is actually ironic - my argument for 'intelligent design' is that the universe is laden with technical debt. You can see the budget cuts, trade-offs, lowest-cost bidder and duct tape fucking EVERYWHERE!

Which is precisely how all the stuff we, humans build ends up like....

The only entity that can fuck this up so badly and beyond repair is an engineer like myself!
Last edited by TimeSeeker on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lacewing
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by Lacewing »

TimeSeeker wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:19 pm 'Why did the entity create The Universe?'

Maybe it was just for fun. Or maybe The Universe was useful.
Or maybe the entity is delusional?
TimeSeeker
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Re: What if God is weak?

Post by TimeSeeker »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:42 pm Or maybe the entity is delusional?
Holy shit! Can you imagine what a God that has their shit together could do then?!?
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