Veritas Aequitas's illusory God

[Dontaskme]

That which is unknown will eventually become known...in this unknown knowing.

But right now YOU don't know HOW?

How belongs to the realm of the illusory existential nature of 'knowledge'

There is no one living life, life is being lived by no one, there is no one doing, yet no doing is left undone.

Heaven and Earth last forever.
Why do heaven and Earth last forever?
They are unborn,
So ever living.
The sage stays behind, thus he is ahead.
He is detached, thus at one with all.
Through selfless action, he attains fulfillment.

[TimeSeeker]

That which is unknown will eventually become known...in this unknown knowing.

But right now YOU don't know HOW?

How belongs to the realm of the illusory existential nature of 'knowledge'

There is no one living life, life is being lived by no one, there is no one doing, yet no doing is left undone.

That is true. But you eat illusionary food. And use illusionary computers and the illusionary internet. Which run on illusionary electricity. Indeed - no illusionary doing is left undone. Because illusionary others are DOING it and keeping the illusion going.

While you are just a passenger.

Everything exists on a silver platter for YOU. I guess you must be the the illusionist in charge of this illusion?

[Dontaskme]

Everything exists on a silver platter for YOU. I guess you are the king of this illusion?

We're all kings in our own kingdom.

As for this one here, I'm no beggar in my own kingdom.

[TimeSeeker]

We're all kings in our own kingdom.

The only kingdom you can lay claim to is your mind. Every other kingdom can be taken away from you.

And even your mind can be taken by Alzheimers

As for this one here, I'm no beggar in my own kingdom.

Of course you are no beggar. In your kingdom you get exactly what you ask for!

You've even bought yourself fancy new clothes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emper ... ew_Clothes

[Dontaskme]

We're all kings in our own kingdom.

The only kingdom you can lay claim to is your mind. Every other kingdom can be taken away from you.

And even your mind can be taken by Alzheimers

As for this one here, I'm no beggar in my own kingdom.

Maybe. But you seem to be wearing fancy new clothes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emper ... ew_Clothes

There is no you to take you away.

Don't mistake the space-suit for the actual space itself.

.

[TimeSeeker]

There is no you to take you away.

Don't mistake the space-suit for the actual space itself.

Well. You haven't taken it off yet, so I infer that you like the space suit.

[Dontaskme]

There is no you to take you away.

Don't mistake the space-suit for the actual space itself.

Well. You haven't taken it off yet, so I infer that you like the space suit.

There is no you wearing a space-suit. You are naked. The space-suit is just along for the ride. An appearance, a fictional adventure in disney land.

[TimeSeeker]

There is no you to take you away.

Don't mistake the space-suit for the actual space itself.

Well. You haven't taken it off yet, so I infer that you like the space suit.

There is no you wearing a space-suit. You are naked. The space-suit is just along for the ride. An appearance, a fictional adventure in disney land.

Yes! You are INSIDE a space-suit.

Take it off!

Use a shotgun to blow a hole through the space suit’s head and come out!

[Dontaskme]

Well. You haven't taken it off yet, so I infer that you like the space suit.

There is no you wearing a space-suit. You are naked. The space-suit is just along for the ride. An appearance, a fictional adventure in disney land.

Yes! You are INSIDE a space-suit.

Take it off!

Use a shotgun to blow a hole through the space suit’s head and come out!

The there is no one inside a space-suit but space itself...blowing a hole in the suit combines the apparent illusory divide of the space inside the suit relative to the outside ..the two are undivided in unity, the whole can never not be the whole, that always is, was and ever will be. The illsuion was in the divide that is not there.

.

"Emptiness for all its mysterious sounding connotations, just means that reality is empty of a permanent, separate self. The emphasis here absolutely must be on the words "permanent" and "separate". It does not mean that reality is not there, or that all of this is illusion! Solidity is an illusion, permanence is an illusion, that the watcher is a separate thing is an illusion , but all of this isn't an illusion. "

[TimeSeeker]

There is no you wearing a space-suit. You are naked. The space-suit is just along for the ride. An appearance, a fictional adventure in disney land.

Yes! You are INSIDE a space-suit.

Take it off!

Use a shotgun to blow a hole through the space suit’s head and come out!

The there is no one inside a space-suit but space itself...blowing a hole in the suit combines the apparent illusory divide of the space inside the suit relative to the outside ..the two are undivided in unity, the whole can never not be the whole, that always is, was and ever will be. The illsuion was in the divide that is not there.

.

"Emptiness for all its mysterious sounding connotations, just means that reality is empty of a permanent, separate self. The emphasis here absolutely must be on the words "permanent" and "separate". It does not mean that reality is not there, or that all of this is illusion! Solidity is an illusion, permanence is an illusion, that the watcher is a separate thing is an illusion , but all of this isn't an illusion. "

So who is pushing the keys on the keyboard?

Who am I talking to?

What is this entity that can push buttons on keyboards but not triggers on shotguns?

[Dontaskme]

So who is pushing the keys on the keyboard?

Who am I talking to?

That you are talking to me and I am responding to you.. denotes the appearance of duality.

Duality is an objective relative appearance within absolute nondual awareness.

.

[TimeSeeker]

So who is pushing the keys on the keyboard?

Who am I talking to?

That you are talking to me and I am responding to you.. denotes the appearance of duality.

Duality is an objective relative appearance within absolute nondual awareness.

.

Ok but it appears as though you are pushing keys on a dualistic keyboard.

Push a dualistic shotgun trigger instead while aiming it at the dualistic space suit’s head.

[Dontaskme]

Push a dualistic shotgun trigger instead while aiming it at the dualistic space suit’s head.

The choice not to do that would still be no thing making that choice to not do.

Life is intelligence itself, it doesn't require a middleman to do its bidding.

.

[Veritas Aequitas]

but JTB is the best available and it is useful. Science is JTB.

And that is my problem. It is NOT useful. Science is not JTB. You can't solve the problem of induction with JTB and science doesn't claim to have solved it. All scientific knowledge is probabilistic. A GUESS - based on the best available information.

You may have your own view of JTB which I find odd.

Here is one view that can reconcile with mine, i.e. Science is JTB.

Science is not merely a collection of facts, concepts, and useful ideas about nature, or even the systematic investigation of nature, although both are common definitions of science.
Science is a method of investigating nature--a way of knowing about nature--that discovers reliable knowledge about it.
In other words, science is a method of discovering reliable knowledge about nature. There are other methods of discovering and learning knowledge about nature (these other knowledge methods or systems will be discussed below in contradistinction to science), but science is the only method that results in the acquisition of reliable knowledge.

Reliable knowledge is knowledge that has a high probability of being true because its veracity has been justified by a reliable method.
Reliable knowledge is sometimes called justified true belief, to distinguish reliable knowledge from belief that is false and unjustified or even true but unjustified.

http://www.indiana.edu/~educy520/sec634 ... sman94.pdf

If you denounce JTB, then scientists should just stop finding preventive measures?
Prevention [arising from JTB speculations] is still better than cure.

False dilemma. I am an applied scientist and I denounce JTB.

You can say anything.
However from the perspective of knowledge you are applying JTB.

Humans may or may not go extinct tomorrow is NOT knowledge. Even though JTB says that it is.
Because I can flip a coin and get an answer to the question: Will humans go extinct tomorrow? Information is knowledge!

Information alone is not knowledge unless it is justified with evidences and proofs.
Information is supposedly processed knowledge. What is taken to be information could be untrue, e.g. fake news.
Thus the essence of information and fundamentally knowledge must be grounded to its justification, i.e. Justified True Belief.
Justified in this case also justified with soundness and rationality.

Humans may or may not go extinct tomorrow is knowledge as defined to be JTB.
In a way it is a sound speculative knowledge which is possible based on other JTBs grounded on empirical evidences.
We know [JTB] the dinosaurs were made extinct by a large meteorite.
We have evidence [JTBs] of the power of destruction of meteorites or comets.
There are many large sized meteorites [JTB] and scientists can easily estimate a size that could destroy Earth and make human extinct.
So it is JTB all the way.

The problem with JTB is we cannot get absolutely certain knowledge but it would be mad to expect absolute knowledge.
But with JTB we can have a basis to increase the confidence level of knowledge and know what confidence level to apply to knowledge.

[TimeSeeker]

but JTB is the best available and it is useful. Science is JTB.

And that is my problem. It is NOT useful. Science is not JTB. You can't solve the problem of induction with JTB and science doesn't claim to have solved it. All scientific knowledge is probabilistic. A GUESS - based on the best available information.

You may have your own view of JTB which I find odd.

Here is one view that can reconcile with mine, i.e. Science is JTB.

Science is not merely a collection of facts, concepts, and useful ideas about nature, or even the systematic investigation of nature, although both are common definitions of science.
Science is a method of investigating nature--a way of knowing about nature--that discovers reliable knowledge about it.
In other words, science is a method of discovering reliable knowledge about nature. There are other methods of discovering and learning knowledge about nature (these other knowledge methods or systems will be discussed below in contradistinction to science), but science is the only method that results in the acquisition of reliable knowledge.

Reliable knowledge is knowledge that has a high probability of being true because its veracity has been justified by a reliable method.
Reliable knowledge is sometimes called justified true belief, to distinguish reliable knowledge from belief that is false and unjustified or even true but unjustified.

http://www.indiana.edu/~educy520/sec634 ... sman94.pdf

If you denounce JTB, then scientists should just stop finding preventive measures?
Prevention [arising from JTB speculations] is still better than cure.

False dilemma. I am an applied scientist and I denounce JTB.

You can say anything.
However from the perspective of knowledge you are applying JTB.

Humans may or may not go extinct tomorrow is NOT knowledge. Even though JTB says that it is.
Because I can flip a coin and get an answer to the question: Will humans go extinct tomorrow? Information is knowledge!

Information alone is not knowledge unless it is justified with evidences and proofs.
Information is supposedly processed knowledge. What is taken to be information could be untrue, e.g. fake news.
Thus the essence of information and fundamentally knowledge must be grounded to its justification, i.e. Justified True Belief.
Justified in this case also justified with soundness and rationality.

Humans may or may not go extinct tomorrow is knowledge as defined to be JTB.
In a way it is a sound speculative knowledge which is possible based on other JTBs grounded on empirical evidences.
We know [JTB] the dinosaurs were made extinct by a large meteorite.
We have evidence [JTBs] of the power of destruction of meteorites or comets.
There are many large sized meteorites [JTB] and scientists can easily estimate a size that could destroy Earth and make human extinct.
So it is JTB all the way.

The problem with JTB is we cannot get absolutely certain knowledge but it would be mad to expect absolute knowledge.
But with JTB we can have a basis to increase the confidence level of knowledge and know what confidence level to apply to knowledge.

I do not expect absolute knowledge. I expect PRECISE and FRESH knowledge! That is what I call information. Real time empirical truth. A direct measurement. An experiment.

Rather than tackling all of this - I have but one line of reasoning. How do you know that you have interpreted the facts/justification correctly?
How do you know that the truth produced by the truth-maker has been accurately and correctly been communicated to the truth-user (you)?
Human language is ambiguous - things get lost in translation. Important details get left out. How do you know that what was knowledge at the time of being written down is stil knowledge at the time you are interpreting it? Things change - knowledge goes stale. And so it is possible that you have misunderstood something (especially with 2nd hand information).

Which leaves you with a crappy question to address: how do you know that what you have acquired IS knowledge?

You can't! until you test that it actually works (and while accepting the risk if it doesn't).

I reject JTB on the grounds of language.

I have no TRUE beliefs. I have more and less PLAUSIBLE beliefs. I hold more and less fresh information (which I attempt to refresh as necessary)
I take responsibility for any and all errors that follow if due to a failed ASSUMPTION if my beliefs lead to a catastrophic (and avoidable) error.

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups I check mine. Without verificationism it is not knowledge. Only Historically correct data.

Which necessarily means 'knowledge' can only be asserted a posteriori. After it has been verified to BE knowledge. By which point it is already stale and so while it may have been knowledge yesterday it may no longer be knowledge today.
A priori - all I have is an informed guess.

Humans may or may not go extinct tomorrow is knowledge as defined to be JTB.
In a way it is a sound speculative knowledge which is possible based on other JTBs grounded on empirical evidences.

You completely side-stepped the issue here!

The question: "Will humans go extinct tomorrow?" has a Yes or No answer. It requires 1 bit of information to answer
You cannot answer this question without resorting to the scientific method - hypothesis testing!

Hypothesis 1: Yes. Humans will go extinct tomorrow. - 50% probability
Hypothesis 2: No. Humans will not go extinct tomorrow - 50% probability

That is NOT useful! If I can't make any predictions then I can't make any DECISIONS.

If all answers are equally probable then I can just flip a coin?

I want to draw a clear distinction between an ASSERTION and a DECISION.

An assertion is made about the PAST.
A decision is made about the FUTURE.

Time matters