Meaning of 'Islam'?

[gaffo]

unlike Veritas, i do have a fundamental understanding of the seven or so Muslims today.

Sunni (and the sub-factions), Shia, Allowite (they think they are Shia, Shia dissagree (aka similar to our Mormans), Sufi (not sure if they are Sunni or Shia techincally? - do you know?), Ahmadiyya (also similar to our Mormans - revering a latter Prophet others in religion do not).

oh and BTW "12vers" is a disparaging term Sunnis use all to often for Shia.

What is critical to the topic of Islam is its core ideology, i.e. the 6236 verses of the Quran.

nope, what is critical is understand individuals have their own personal theology within each sect - some of which is orthodox and some of which will not be.


you are all too much into lumping/stereotyping. this mindset is too narrow to allow learning.

It is not difficult to obtain knowledge of the main schools and sects of Islam to discuss any related points if necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_s ... d_branches

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visu ... movements/
this had very good details.

no its not difficult.

i suggest you start reading up.

[Veritas Aequitas]

I was just trying to explain that I could read EVERY religious text and NOT see one shred of, what is generally known as, 'evil' or negative intent in there. But that is not because if there actually is any, good or bad in there, either way, but solely because I look at and see things differently from ALL others. The truth is we ALL do.

Any one can read anything and arrive at whatever conclusions.

A Muslim is one who has entered into a contract to comply with all the terms in the Quran in exchange for a promise of eternal life.
The point is there a significant % of Muslims [if only 20% = 300 million] who accept all the verses in the Quran as 'good' [in their eyes] and it is their divine duty to do what is commanded as 'good' to please Allah to gain favor of an eternal life in Paradise.

The fact is what SOME Muslims deemed as good and a divine duty turned out to be terrible evil and violent acts for non-Muslims and others.

I had asked you earlier,
what authority do you or any human have to judge on behalf of Allah that you are right and those who carry out their divine duty [with consequences of evil as defined] to please God is wrong?
Point is no Muslims nor any one can usurp the authority of Allah, only Allah can judge but Allah is an impossibility as real to appear to reprimand and stop Muslims if they are ever wrong.

Thus as long as Islam is practiced [now by >1.5 b] there will be a natural % of evil prone Muslims believing the commands of the verses they deemed as good that result in real terrible evil and violent act in the name of Allah and Islam.

Therefore, logically, rationally and wisely, the best solution is to wean off the religion of Islam and replace it with fool proof spiritual practices to deal with the inherent existential crisis.

Once Islam is weaned off, the 20% of evil prone ex-Muslims will have no God-commanded verses to be motivated, inspired and to be used to justify their evil acts.
These evil prone people will continue to commit evil acts driven by their inherent active evil tendency but only on their own nature and not driven by any religion dogma or God.

[Veritas Aequitas]

unlike Veritas, i do have a fundamental understanding of the seven or so Muslims today.

Sunni (and the sub-factions), Shia, Allowite (they think they are Shia, Shia dissagree (aka similar to our Mormans), Sufi (not sure if they are Sunni or Shia techincally? - do you know?), Ahmadiyya (also similar to our Mormans - revering a latter Prophet others in religion do not).

oh and BTW "12vers" is a disparaging term Sunnis use all to often for Shia.

What is critical to the topic of Islam is its core ideology, i.e. the 6236 verses of the Quran.

nope, what is critical is understand individuals have their own personal theology within each sect - some of which is orthodox and some of which will not be.


you are all too much into lumping/stereotyping. this mindset is too narrow to allow learning.

It is not difficult to obtain knowledge of the main schools and sects of Islam to discuss any related points if necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_s ... d_branches

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visu ... movements/
this had very good details.

no its not difficult.

i suggest you start reading up.

Read up for which issue?

Re the issue of evil within Islam;

Note
The present demographic breakdown between the two denominations is difficult to assess and varies by source, but a good approximation is that

• -85% of the world's Muslims are Sunni[1] and
  -10% are Shia,[2][3]

with most Shias belonging to the Twelver tradition and the rest divided between many other groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia%E2%8 ... _relations

The remaining 5% comprised of the Sufi, Ahmadiyya, etc.
The Sufi and Ahamdiya within the 5% has an overriding pathos that specifically emphasize on non-violence and deliberately ignore the evil verses in the Quran.

However note 95% representing Sunni and Shia in general do not state and impute an overall non-evil and non-violent element in Islam.
There are moderates within the Sunni and Shia and even if this is 80% of them [95%] there is still 20% [conservatively] of evil prone Muslim who will act on those evil laden verses as a divine duty to please God.

At present humanity is like suffering from various critical diseases of evil of which one of this is Islamic-related evil.
This is why we need to focus on Islam and the 20% [conservatively] of evil prone Muslims.
The knowledge of the difference of schools of Islam has no significant bearing on this issue of Islamic-related evil.

If you want to discuss about the different schools of Islam,it is best to discuss in a separate thread.

[gaffo]

What is critical to the topic of Islam is its core ideology, i.e. the 6236 verses of the Quran.

nope, what is critical is understand individuals have their own personal theology within each sect - some of which is orthodox and some of which will not be.


you are all too much into lumping/stereotyping. this mindset is too narrow to allow learning.

It is not difficult to obtain knowledge of the main schools and sects of Islam to discuss any related points if necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_s ... d_branches

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visu ... movements/
this had very good details.

no its not difficult.

i suggest you start reading up.

Read up for which issue?

Re the issue of evil within Islam;

Note
The present demographic breakdown between the two denominations is difficult to assess and varies by source, but a good approximation is that

• -85% of the world's Muslims are Sunni[1] and
  -10% are Shia,[2][3]

with most Shias belonging to the Twelver tradition and the rest divided between many other groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia%E2%8 ... _relations

The remaining 5% comprised of the Sufi, Ahmadiyya, etc.
The Sufi and Ahamdiya within the 5% has an overriding pathos that specifically emphasize on non-violence and deliberately ignore the evil verses in the Quran.

However note 95% representing Sunni and Shia in general do not state and impute an overall non-evil and non-violent element in Islam.
There are moderates within the Sunni and Shia and even if this is 80% of them [95%] there is still 20% [conservatively] of evil prone Muslim who will act on those evil laden verses as a divine duty to please God.

At present humanity is like suffering from various critical diseases of evil of which one of this is Islamic-related evil.
This is why we need to focus on Islam and the 20% [conservatively] of evil prone Muslims.
The knowledge of the difference of schools of Islam has no significant bearing on this issue of Islamic-related evil.

If you want to discuss about the different schools of Islam,it is best to discuss in a separate thread.

those numbers seem accurate - though suspect the Shia number includes the 1-2 percent of Allowites (who are like Christians WRT to Jews - they deify Ali - which means Shia do not seem them as Shia even though Allowites do see themselve as such).

you seem to willfully ignore that 19 percent of folks living in the Middle East (even Saudi Arabia) - are Atheists/Agnostics! - that means 1/5 of folks on the street "over there" ain't even Muslim!

that give me much hope - being an atheist myself.

[gaffo]

we got Kurds too - small number are Yesidi, most are Sunni - but they are "different" somehow.

not sure how - just heard that they are a little odd in their Sunnism - maybe "Age" can clarify.

[Veritas Aequitas]

those numbers seem accurate - though suspect the Shia number includes the 1-2 percent of Allowites (who are like Christians WRT to Jews - they deify Ali - which means Shia do not seem them as Shia even though Allowites do see themselve as such).

you seem to willfully ignore that 19 percent of folks living in the Middle East (even Saudi Arabia) - are Atheists/Agnostics! - that means 1/5 of folks on the street "over there" ain't even Muslim!

that give me much hope - being an atheist myself.

Where are you heading?
We are discussing Islam and Muslims which can be anyone around the world.

We are not discussing Arabs who can adopt any religion, even Buddhism or Hinduism.
This is off topic.

[gaffo]

those numbers seem accurate - though suspect the Shia number includes the 1-2 percent of Allowites (who are like Christians WRT to Jews - they deify Ali - which means Shia do not seem them as Shia even though Allowites do see themselve as such).

you seem to willfully ignore that 19 percent of folks living in the Middle East (even Saudi Arabia) - are Atheists/Agnostics! - that means 1/5 of folks on the street "over there" ain't even Muslim!

that give me much hope - being an atheist myself.

Where are you heading?
We are discussing Islam and Muslims which can be anyone around the world.

We are not discussing Arabs who can adopt any religion, even Buddhism or Hinduism.
This is off topic.

where i'm heading is the 5th column.

BTW - do you know your history?

prior to Iraqnam, the highest murder rate via terrorists was by HINDU Tamils in Sci Lanka.

by a long shot.

you can thank Bush Jr for the islamic shitstorm he created via the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraqnam.

had that moron left Saddam in place, HINDUS would still have top honours in highest terrorist kill rate.

its called "Blowback" we never learn ;-/.

[Veritas Aequitas]

where i'm heading is the 5th column.

BTW - do you know your history?

prior to Iraqnam, the highest murder rate via terrorists was by HINDU Tamils in Sci Lanka.

by a long shot.

you can thank Bush Jr for the islamic shitstorm he created via the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraqnam.

had that moron left Saddam in place, HINDUS would still have top honours in highest terrorist kill rate.

its called "Blowback" we never learn ;-/.

Your above thoughts are very messy.
The Tamil tigers in Sri Langka were not motivated by their religion to kill but they were fighting a political war to claim land rights.
Bush may have referred to God [anyone can do that], but that is against Christs command to 'love your enemies' not 'kill your enemies'.

On the other hand, the Muslims who fight and kill are commanded and sanction is given by Allah as expressed in the Quran.
Note I quoted the following command from Allah;

2:216. Warfare [l-qitālu] is ordained [kutiba: prescribed] for you [Muslims], though it is hateful unto you [Muslims]; but it may happen that ye [Muslims] hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

Read it a few times so you don't forget.

The next time you want to accuse any other believers besides Muslims of killing non-believer check whether their God or religious texts give them direct command to kill others. Also find out where those believers quote from their holy texts to justify they killings of non-believers.

[Dontaskme]

The next time you want to accuse any other believers besides Muslims of killing non-believer check whether their God or religious texts give them direct command to kill others.

The only problem here is the belief that there is person inside a body of a human to kill. There is no person inside a body, There's just the infinite infinitely expressing itself as every conceivable experience there is possible, including the belief there is a person inside a body that can be killed. Infinity is not the illusion because infinity is every conceivable possibility that ever is, was, and ever will be for eternity.

The only illusion here, is the belief that there is a separate self inside a body to kill, which is just part and parcel of infinities dream. The dream is all that is known. The known is the illusion within this immediate irrefutable immutable unlimited infinite dream of limitation aka separation.

The belief in otherness is just an illusory story, its knowledge, its self-awareness, awareness aware of itself as being other, its same one self aka no self..That's the illusion, the knowledge of self is illusory. Infinitity has no image or knowledge of itself except in the dream of other, itself...There is no self in infinity now..except as a dreamt character appearing real. And if it wasn't real, there would be no knowledge of it ever being so.

To espouse anything as being real or unreal illusion or otherwise these concepts have to have a knower.

That knower is you, it is infinity itself.

.

[Age]

True as far as the evil elements are concern and there are similarity in the doctrines but there are significant differences as well.

It is claimed the quantum of evil elements in the Torah is worst than the Quran but there is a difference as judged by the terrible evil and violent acts committed by evil prone Muslims and Jews throughout history.

Somehow the Torah do not have a very strong stranglehold on the Jews in comparison to the the Quran have a total stranglehold on the Muslims especially the evil prone Muslims.

I have stated there should not be any evil elements in any religious texts especially theistic religions where God imposes on all believers.

There are NONE. You are just seeing evil elements where there are NONE.

I will say this again, write down here one of those supposed evil element in any religious text, explain to us how you see it as being evil, then we can at least look at it and then discuss.

By definition any thing to do with a God does NOT have evil intent towards ANY ONE.

I find your views are very naive and child-liked.

Perfect.

Definition of God?
Is there a real God to be defined?
Note my thread on;

God is an Impossibility
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704
Prove me wrong on this?

God is defined as an emergent idea [not concept] and an illusion which is falsely claimed as real. This emergent idea is driven by a VERY desperate existential psychological force within humans.

The idea of God is an illusion and the supposedly holy texts [immutable or otherwise] from a God are created by someone or a group of men just like how the Mein Kampf came about.

DNA wise ALL humans has the potential to commit evil acts.
20% of all humans are 'unfortunately' born with an active tendency to commit evil acts.

Theistic religions are created by humans but due to the strong and active inherent nature of evil within SOME humans, some religious doctrine and ideology are infected with evil elements. The worst of this evil laden religion is Islam as evident in its 'holy' i.e. the Quran which represent its core ideology.

I have given evidence of various sets of evil laden verses in the Quran that had inspired and motivated SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evil acts and violence in the name of God and their religion.

You are STILL incapable of, or unwilling to, write down just one verse, and explain where YOU see the evil intent in it, so that we can look at and discuss. The reason for this is completely obvious to most of us here.

Changing topics and trying to move on does NOT help your case at all.

Re the Torah, one reason I have read is the evil elements [not to be condoned] in the Torah as related to stories to convey some messages but they are not commands of God that is obligatory that Jews must comply with.
On the other hand the most of evil elements in the Quran are sanctioned by Allah as obligatory commands which others influence the believers. Note this command,



"l-qitālu" is translated as 'warfare' but the Arabic meaning is imbued with an element of aggression.

The other reason why the evil elements in the Torah [need to be condemned] are the lesser evil in comparison to Islam's is Judaism do not have the mission to proselytize its religion thus a lesser potential and widespread of its evil elements.

Btw, I have stated many times, ALL evil acts and potential must be addressed in the long run and reduced to the minimal but there is need to prioritize due to limited resources at present.

Sounds like you are trying your best to justify your own evil actions, but obviously it is NOT working because I, for one, can see straight through your attempts.

Why should I bother with your reply?

I don't rely on ONE or two verses but take the whole of the Quran and all its related elements [history, psychology, neuro-psychology, neurosciences, social, etc.] into account.

I suggest you start a thread like 'Islam is Not Evil' and provide all your evidences and proof to justify your claim.

Why do you suggest that?

Would it have anything at all to do with your inability to truly justify your distorted views and beliefs of "others", and their religious texts?

Have you ever considered that one of the major causes of disputes, fighting, and wars is the very fact that people express what they BELIEVE is true and then try anything to find evidence and proof that will justify their own beliefs and claims. I am NOT here to partake in such petty and ridiculous behaviors.

Remember it is you who insists that islam is evil. Yet you do NOT even try to provide any evidence for this. Again, the reason WHY you do not is completely obvious. If you did have some, then you would just provide it, instead of just re-repeating what you keep writing.

Note by Abductive and Inductive reasoning, it is so obvious there is a causal relation between the terrible evil and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims and the ideology of Islam.

Just saying, "Note by Abductive and inductive reasoning, ..." does NOT prove that there is a supposedly obvious causal relation between evil and violent acts and the ideology of islam. WHERE IS the actual deductive and inductive evidence and proof for YOUR views and beliefs? Until you provide evidence, then what you are stating are your just your views and beliefs ONLY.

I have provided clues [listing of evil laden verses] and discussed briefly but not in detail yet on how the terrible evil and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims has a direct link to the ideology of Islam via its evil laden elements.

Why provide "clues?" Why not provide proofs?

You asked why am I cryptic. I explained WHY. Now why are you being cryptic by using clues? Why not just show evidences for your BELIEFS?

Btw, what authority do you or any human have to judge on behalf of Allah that you are right and those who carry out their divine duty [with consequences of evil as defined] to please God is wrong?

When you discover and KNOW who 'I' am, then you will know what authority I have.

[Age]

I was just trying to explain that I could read EVERY religious text and NOT see one shred of, what is generally known as, 'evil' or negative intent in there. But that is not because if there actually is any, good or bad in there, either way, but solely because I look at and see things differently from ALL others. The truth is we ALL do.

Any one can read anything and arrive at whatever conclusions.

Yes that is exactly what I said.

A Muslim is one who has entered into a contract to comply with all the terms in the Quran in exchange for a promise of eternal life.
The point is there a significant % of Muslims [if only 20% = 300 million] who accept all the verses in the Quran as 'good' [in their eyes] and it is their divine duty to do what is commanded as 'good' to please Allah to gain favor of an eternal life in Paradise.

So what?

The fact is what SOME Muslims deemed as good and a divine duty turned out to be terrible evil and violent acts for non-Muslims and others.

Well class yourself as one of these one. If you were brought up as a muslim, then you would be ONE of those who you say commit evil and violent acts because you are one of those who see the ideology of islam is evil intent. If you were brought up a muslim, then you would be following all those, what you say are evil laden verses. You would be the very ONE who you say the rest of the world should fear and be very wary of.

I had asked you earlier,
what authority do you or any human have to judge on behalf of Allah that you are right and those who carry out their divine duty [with consequences of evil as defined] to please God is wrong?

And when I read it I answered straight away. Did you forget that I had NOT yet replied to that post when you wrote this post?

Surely a person with your belief that you can see right from wrong, which others can not see, would have noticed how impatient and foolish you would be to write such a thing?

I am naive and child-like so I can justify any and all wrong doing that I do. You, however, like to come across as all-knowing, so how can you justify your wrong doing?

Point is no Muslims nor any one can usurp the authority of Allah, only Allah can judge but Allah is an impossibility as real to appear to reprimand and stop Muslims if they are ever wrong.

Let us just say, that if you ask me a question, and then you reply to your own question, by making huge assumptions, and even before I have even been given a chance to answer, then that somewhat shows your ability to look at things clearly.

As I suggest earlier, when you know who I am, then you will KNOW who has true authority.

Thus as long as Islam is practiced [now by >1.5 b] there will be a natural % of evil prone Muslims believing the commands of the verses they deemed as good that result in real terrible evil and violent act in the name of Allah and Islam.

How many verses in the quran do you deem as good, and, how many do you deem as being bad, or evil?

Therefore, logically, rationally and wisely, the best solution is to wean off the religion of Islam and replace it with fool proof spiritual practices to deal with the inherent existential crisis.

OR, just read the quran the way it was meant to be and is intended to be read. To me, this seems much easier to do than trying to replace one thing with another.

Are you trying to suggest that you personally have or know of some sort of fool proof spiritual practice?

Once Islam is weaned off, the 20% of evil prone ex-Muslims will have no God-commanded verses to be motivated, inspired and to be used to justify their evil acts.

But people like you who see so much laden evil and evil intent in things will just find something else to try to justify YOUR continual evil and wrong doing.

Or, can you NOT see how you already do this?

These evil prone people will continue to commit evil acts driven by their inherent active evil tendency but only on their own nature and not driven by any religion dogma or God.

And, to you, is that perfectly all right?

Also, who is going to stop your evil wrong doing?

You, evil prone, people will look for, find, and see absolutely any thing that you can use to justify, to yourselves, your evil tendency.

Or, do you believe that you are not evil prone and/or do not do evil things?

[Veritas Aequitas]

I have given evidence of various sets of evil laden verses in the Quran that had inspired and motivated SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evil acts and violence in the name of God and their religion.

You are STILL incapable of, or unwilling to, write down just one verse, and explain where YOU see the evil intent in it, so that we can look at and discuss. The reason for this is completely obvious to most of us here.

Changing topics and trying to move on does NOT help your case at all.

Hey! who is changing tune.
First you ask for one or as many verses there is.
When I provide the thousands of verses, then now you insist on one i.e. just one.

Note I provided the necessary links and you need to read the notes in the introductory part to get the point.

Note the explanation therein,

There is a technical problem in measuring the Koranic text. The usual unit in the Koran is the verse.
There is a distinct problem with only using verses to quantify the Koran. A verse is usually a sentence.
We would never attempt to discuss any other ideology by picking a sentence.
We need to study ideas and concepts, not disconnected sentences.

Since the longer Koran chapters (Suras) are a collection of topics, most Korans divide the chapter into logical idea/topic units or subjects.
The most obvious idea unit is the story.
However, there is a unique idea unit in the Koran.

Some categories are obvious, such as retold tales from the Jews. But, the less obvious category is Koranic persuasion.
The Koran is filled with violent threats against those who do not believe Mohammed and who did not believe the prophets of Allah in the past. If you highlight the violent references to the unbelievers, you will find that there are five elements that accompany the violence:

• • A description of the threat or violence
  • Who is threatened
  • What they did to deserve the violence
  • How they are wrong
  • Words from Allah to support his messenger, Mohammed

This entire structure is called “Koranic persuasion” and is repeated again and again. The repetition is part of the persuasion, just as repetition is necessary to all persuasion campaigns, e.g. ads and political campaigns.

http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/T ... _Koran.pdf

We need to assess all the verses listed, your mentioned one verse 27:76 is not effective. Note that is not the first verse in the list.
In any case, here is how 27:76 qualify as one of the 3000++ of evil laden verses.

• 27:76 Surely this Koran explains to the Children of Israel most of the issues upon which they disagree. Certainly it is a guide and a mercy for those who believe. Surely your Lord will use His wisdom to judge between them. He is the mighty and the all-knowing. So put your trust in Allah. Surely, you are on the path to the plain truth.

You asked earlier where is the negative and evil laden element in that verses.

The above verse 27:76 is listed as one of the 3000+ verses that contain the evil laden element re the 'outgroup' [generally the Jews] in a negative manner, i.e. they disagree with the Quran, in other verses mentioned they corrupted the Bible and rejected the latest Quran.
When Allah judge between them they will be tortured and burnt terribly in Hell which is another evil element.

Now you have to read the 3000++ evil laden verses listed and assess them in terms of the Five Elements above and in the whole context of the Quran to understand the evilness therein.

I have analyzed the 3000++ evil laden verses in 100s of various evil themes, i.e. warfare, killing, oppression, terror, rapes, slavery, etc. etc.

The fact is the above evil laden verses are translated to real terrible evils and violence as divine duty by SOME evil prone believers.

No one on Earth can judge on these 'SOME' evil prone believers who believe they are the truest Muslims in total compliance with the immutable words of Allah in the Quran. According to the immutable words of Allah in the Quran, only Allah can judge believers on Judgment Day but Allah is an impossibility. Therefore as long as the 'immutable' Quran is believed by SOME evil prone Muslims [pool of 300 million conservatively] there will evil acts and violence inevitably and naturally.

[Veritas Aequitas]

The fact is what SOME Muslims deemed as good and a divine duty turned out to be terrible evil and violent acts for non-Muslims and others.

Well class yourself as one of these one. If you were brought up as a muslim, then you would be ONE of those who you say commit evil and violent acts because you are one of those who see the ideology of islam is evil intent. If you were brought up a muslim, then you would be following all those, what you say are evil laden verses. You would be the very ONE who you say the rest of the world should fear and be very wary of.

Let say I am one of those who are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency which obviously I am ignorant of.

I am also one of those who are born with a very active existential crisis thus is driven very desperately to seek salvation of eternal life to avoid the terrible torture and burning in Hell eternally.

I could be born into a Muslim family or someone proselytized Islam to me and I readily accepted the promise of Allah in assuring me of eternal life in Paradise [bonus with 72 virgins instantly renewable after each penetration]. This offer is so easy, i.e. just state the Shahadah and agree to comply with the all the immutable words of Allah in the Quran - to the best of my ability.

This will be my life and beliefs as a Muslim;

• Whatever Allah [the all powerful and all compassionate] proclaimed in the Quran it is good. Obviously I will see no evil elements in the Quranic commands and advice by Allah. As far as I am concern I will be very desperate to comply with Allah commands and advice by Allah to the 't' to please Allah and be ensured of eternal life in Paradise.
  The point is I would dare not change the intent of Allah which is stated in verses that are simple and explicit otherwise I could end in Hell.
  
  To get greater assurance of eternal life in Paradise after death, I will increase my striving [jihad] intensity on every command and advice from Allah as stated in the Quran.
  Note,
  I will defend Islam against corruptions and threats from the 'outgroup' even with my own life and kill to eliminate the threat..
  Any insult to the Prophet is a threat to Islam, e.g. drawing of cartoons of the Prophet. The occupation of Muslims' land is a threat to the practice and existence of Islam.
  
  Thus as far as I am concern I will comply with all the immutable verses in the Quran and I will not commit anything that is evil in the eyes of Allah.

If I am the above mentioned Muslim and act sincerely in accordance with the words of Allah in tandem with million of other Muslims, who on Earth is qualify to judge my acts as divine duty for Allah in accordance with the Quran.

In this case, do you or any one has any authority to accuse I am wrong in my compliance as a dutiful Muslims?


Now in another perspective of humanity and universal morality, certain of my acts as a Muslim [in tandem with others] will naturally be defined as evil acts inspired by evil laden verses from evil laden ideology.

So, tell me what is wrong with the above?

[Age]

I have given evidence of various sets of evil laden verses in the Quran that had inspired and motivated SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evil acts and violence in the name of God and their religion.

You are STILL incapable of, or unwilling to, write down just one verse, and explain where YOU see the evil intent in it, so that we can look at and discuss. The reason for this is completely obvious to most of us here.

Changing topics and trying to move on does NOT help your case at all.

Hey! who is changing tune.
First you ask for one or as many verses there is.
When I provide the thousands of verses, then now you insist on one i.e. just one.

You STILL do NOT get it. I am still asking you to provide at least one, or as many as you like, verses but the part you are NOT understanding is I want you to also provide what it IS in the verse that you interpret, or see, as being evil.

Note I provided the necessary links and you need to read the notes in the introductory part to get the point.

Are you still so blinded that you can NOT yet see that anyone can interpret any thing in any way?. The reason people interpret the wrong the message from what was the actually message intended is because of previously held views and beliefs. People, like yourself, who strongly and dearly hold onto your previously gained views and beliefs look for things that confirm your biases. Therefore, that is the reason you provide only the things that you do. The so called "necessary links" are in fact NOT necessary at all, and are only "necessary" in that to you they support your current biased views. There is NO "need" to read the notes to gain the true and right perspective of things. Those so called "necessary links" and those you want us to read in the introductory part, to get the point, which you want us to see and agree with come from an already distorted and biased viewpoint already. They are just a few people's interpretation. They are NOT true and factual points of any thing at all. If you still can NOT see that you are writing your own narrative, and just using other people's perspectives and distorted views, which fit in with your own distorted views, and which then further confirms your own biases, then I do not know what will make you see what is actually happening here.

Note the explanation therein,

There is a technical problem in measuring the Koranic text. The usual unit in the Koran is the verse.
There is a distinct problem with only using verses to quantify the Koran. A verse is usually a sentence.
We would never attempt to discuss any other ideology by picking a sentence.
We need to study ideas and concepts, not disconnected sentences.

Since the longer Koran chapters (Suras) are a collection of topics, most Korans divide the chapter into logical idea/topic units or subjects.
The most obvious idea unit is the story.
However, there is a unique idea unit in the Koran.

Some categories are obvious, such as retold tales from the Jews. But, the less obvious category is Koranic persuasion.
The Koran is filled with violent threats against those who do not believe Mohammed and who did not believe the prophets of Allah in the past. If you highlight the violent references to the unbelievers, you will find that there are five elements that accompany the violence:

• • A description of the threat or violence
  • Who is threatened
  • What they did to deserve the violence
  • How they are wrong
  • Words from Allah to support his messenger, Mohammed

This entire structure is called “Koranic persuasion” and is repeated again and again. The repetition is part of the persuasion, just as repetition is necessary to all persuasion campaigns, e.g. ads and political campaigns.

http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/T ... _Koran.pdf

We need to assess all the verses listed, your mentioned one verse 27:76 is not effective. Note that is not the first verse in the list.

So what?

In any case, here is how 27:76 qualify as one of the 3000++ of evil laden verses.

• 27:76 Surely this Koran explains to the Children of Israel most of the issues upon which they disagree. Certainly it is a guide and a mercy for those who believe. Surely your Lord will use His wisdom to judge between them. He is the mighty and the all-knowing. So put your trust in Allah. Surely, you are on the path to the plain truth.

You asked earlier where is the negative and evil laden element in that verses.

The above verse 27:76 is listed as one of the 3000+ verses that contain the evil laden element re the 'outgroup' [generally the Jews] in a negative manner, i.e. they disagree with the Quran, in other verses mentioned they corrupted the Bible and rejected the latest Quran.
When Allah judge between them they will be tortured and burnt terribly in Hell which is another evil element.

I did not see any thing linking your interpretation of torture, burning terribly in hell, or any other evil element, with what is in the verse.

Gaffo also explained how they did NOT see what you see, which is absolute further proof to my point.

Because you are truly unable to understand my point clearly. My point IS absolutely any person can see and interpret any thing into any thing. Unless you have direct and pure access with a writer/speaker, then any thing you say or write in regards to what another says or writes is truly ONLY an interpretation, which could be absolutely false, wrong, and/or incorrect.

Are you under some sort of illusion that your interpretations and views of islam and the quran is true, right, and correct?

Now you have to read the 3000++ evil laden verses listed and assess them in terms of the Five Elements above and in the whole context of the Quran to understand the evilness therein.

I have analyzed the 3000++ evil laden verses in 100s of various evil themes, i.e. warfare, killing, oppression, terror, rapes, slavery, etc. etc.

The fact is the above evil laden verses are translated to real terrible evils and violence as divine duty by SOME evil prone believers.

No one on Earth can judge on these 'SOME' evil prone believers who believe they are the truest Muslims in total compliance with the immutable words of Allah in the Quran. According to the immutable words of Allah in the Quran, only Allah can judge believers on Judgment Day but Allah is an impossibility. Therefore as long as the 'immutable' Quran is believed by SOME evil prone Muslims [pool of 300 million conservatively] there will evil acts and violence inevitably and naturally.

I have yet to see any human adult who has not committed an evil and violent act.

What is it that you are trying to prove here, to yourself? If you want to believe that the ideology of islam has evil intent, and that the quran is evil laden, then so what?

Do you agree that YOUR interpretation of islam is that it is evil, and that the quran is laden with evil?

You are free to interpret any thing anyway you want. You are also free to believe whatever you want to believe.

As i suggested to you previously, just re-repeating the same things over and over again does NOT make what you say true, right, and correct. The only ones you are persuading with your repetitive repetition is you, and may be a few others.

[Age]

The fact is what SOME Muslims deemed as good and a divine duty turned out to be terrible evil and violent acts for non-Muslims and others.

Well class yourself as one of these one. If you were brought up as a muslim, then you would be ONE of those who you say commit evil and violent acts because you are one of those who see the ideology of islam is evil intent. If you were brought up a muslim, then you would be following all those, what you say are evil laden verses. You would be the very ONE who you say the rest of the world should fear and be very wary of.

Let say I am one of those who are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency which obviously I am ignorant of.

I am also one of those who are born with a very active existential crisis thus is driven very desperately to seek salvation of eternal life to avoid the terrible torture and burning in Hell eternally.

I could be born into a Muslim family or someone proselytized Islam to me and I readily accepted the promise of Allah in assuring me of eternal life in Paradise [bonus with 72 virgins instantly renewable after each penetration]. This offer is so easy, i.e. just state the Shahadah and agree to comply with the all the immutable words of Allah in the Quran - to the best of my ability.

This will be my life and beliefs as a Muslim;

• Whatever Allah [the all powerful and all compassionate] proclaimed in the Quran it is good. Obviously I will see no evil elements in the Quranic commands and advice by Allah. As far as I am concern I will be very desperate to comply with Allah commands and advice by Allah to the 't' to please Allah and be ensured of eternal life in Paradise.
  The point is I would dare not change the intent of Allah which is stated in verses that are simple and explicit otherwise I could end in Hell.
  
  To get greater assurance of eternal life in Paradise after death, I will increase my striving [jihad] intensity on every command and advice from Allah as stated in the Quran.
  Note,
  I will defend Islam against corruptions and threats from the 'outgroup' even with my own life and kill to eliminate the threat..
  Any insult to the Prophet is a threat to Islam, e.g. drawing of cartoons of the Prophet. The occupation of Muslims' land is a threat to the practice and existence of Islam.
  
  Thus as far as I am concern I will comply with all the immutable verses in the Quran and I will not commit anything that is evil in the eyes of Allah.

If I am the above mentioned Muslim and act sincerely in accordance with the words of Allah in tandem with million of other Muslims, who on Earth is qualify to judge my acts as divine duty for Allah in accordance with the Quran.

In this case, do you or any one has any authority to accuse I am wrong in my compliance as a dutiful Muslims?


Now in another perspective of humanity and universal morality, certain of my acts as a Muslim [in tandem with others] will naturally be defined as evil acts inspired by evil laden verses from evil laden ideology.

So, tell me what is wrong with the above?

EVERYTHING.

From suggesting some are born with an active evil tendency, to, suggesting islam is an evil laden ideology?

Where would you like me to start?

How about I start with the first two words, "Let say". To assume any thing is ridiculous to begin with, but let us say I did even begin to start to agree with what you are about to say, then the rest of what you are about to say needs to be proven true, right, and correct BEFORE you are going to get people to assume that you are "one of those". (That was the first two words.)

Now for the next five words, "I am one of those". To suggest that there is 'some' and thee is 'those', or, 'one' and 'others', or, 'some' and 'others', or, 'us' and 'them', or any other attempt at trying to separate adult human beings is foolishness at the highest degree. There is NO different type of adult human being. You are either an adult human being or you are not. Full stop.

Now for the next seven words. "unfortunately born with an active evil tendency". To suggest that some human beings are born one way and others are not is also foolishness at the highest degree. To use the word "unfortunately" implies a sense of superiority, which YOU certainly do NOT possess. Where is the proof that any one is born with an active evil tendency? Where is the proof that any one is born with an evil tendency, active or not?
What do YOU mean by 'evil'? Where is this supposed 'tendency' for evil actually located within the human body? How can YOU tell the difference of who is born with this "evil tendency" that could be active or not active, and who is not born with it? There are a few more questions just in relation to these seven words but I will leave it for now.

When you clear up and clarify all of this, then we can move on.