Religions are all about beliefs. However, there is no such believer.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmYour claim ("there is no such believer") shuts the door on acknowledging the many aspects of our experience. This is how you're setting the stage for what you want to talk about. Correct?
There is no believer, or claimer...there is belief arising here now nowhere to no one.
There is an awareness of a believer, and a claimer, but that which is aware is not a believer or a claimer...it just IS..this isness is without attribute.
Life is Non-dual, in every which way, shape, and form. Nondualism has absolutely nothing to do with belief.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmAgain, your claim ignores any potential for the many aspects of our experience.
Try to look at what is being pointed to here, rather than get caught up in the net of I.
There is no claimer, claims are appearances in you, but not you. The person claiming to know knowledge is the experience no one is having, it's a mentally created experience. The smelling of a rose is an experience ..no one has an experience, there is just the experience no one is having. For who knows experience but awareness only? Awareness is everything and every experience...BUT,awareness is not an experience, you cannot experience awareness ..you are it.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmNow that you've claimed how it ultimately/truly is, you're going to claim what is NOT that. Correct? Isn't that dualism?
Nonduality is duality, so yes in answer to that question.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmWhy do you imagine that it is not as it should be?
There is only 'what is' and 'what is' can never be anything other than that else it would be what is isn't.
'what is' also includes 'what isn't' ...
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmWhat sense does it make that those who are parts of ONE, and have temporarily "forgotten" or are selectively experiencing, are in NEED of stopping what they're doing? What difference does it make? It doesn't change who they are, does it?
No it doesn't make any sense to say there is a NEED to awaken, but that calling from another mind is just part and parcel of what's happening to no one. And no it makes no difference to the 'what is'...it doesn't change anything in reality, nor does it change the imagined entities way of being and viewing the world according to it's beliefs and conditionings. All that appears to be happening (apparently) is minds communicating with other minds, and those minds are either agreeing, disagreeing, ignoring, understanding or not understanding what is being exchanged...this is all phenomena arising to no one, here nowhere, while awareness (YOU) pervades it all...looks on in detachment.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmDoes it make more sense that the buddhas are off the rails, or that they're just having fun on a roller coaster?
I understand what you are saying...but to me nothing really makes sense, there's just what's arising here nowhere, it's all the dance of the one...all of it no matter how or what form it appears.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmDo you ask these kinds of questions, yourself? I would like to hear your answers.
I don't ask questions to myself anymore. I know what I am because I know what I am not..please don't ask me to repeat it all again. I've talked about this many times.
Any discussion regarding the idea of religion is a waste of time, it puts one in a tail chasing scenario of arguing against an ''I'm right'', and another ''I'm right''.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmI agree that it is a superficial activity on the Earth stage... and that it denies the unity behind all. I would prefer that there were no religions... but rather gratitude and appreciation for all. No false idols.
No over-bloated egos playing God and oppressing others.
I concur.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmThe way I see/explain it: Infinite potential is playing out all possibilities. Exploring... dueling with itself, perhaps. Great fun (in some ways)... who/what will prevail... now... later... (perhaps it's all happening simultaneously)? And, like an online game in which you represent multiple characters of different attributes, and multiple lifetimes, the interactions and outcomes matter in the moment for whatever reasons, but ultimately they are a brushstroke in an ever-flowing creation/experience. Is it not entertainment?
I concur.
..why not just discuss what is really actually going on here. And move away from belief for good, and focus on the clarity that is blindingly staring us in the face, waiting for us to wake up.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmSo, why must we wake up? Is it going to change who we are? Why not have fun in the dream? If we wake up, then what?
We don't have to wake up, besides, we don't wake up, there is no one here to wake up. Waking up is a spontaneous occurance that happens all by itself if it's meant to happen just as everything happens as it's meant to happen and no force on earth will make any thing happen if it's not meant to happen. All that happens with awakening is the drop that once believed or thought is was separate dissolves back into the ocean that it is.
Nothing happens when the drop realises it's just the ocean waving, it just relaxes more and allows itself to be waved without resistence.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmWhat IS "actually going on here"? Do you want to claim that you know, and wake everyone up because you're not having fun in the dream?
Nothing is going on here, there's just what's happening. This one here just happens to like discussing the topic of Nonduality,there is no other reason than the enjoyment of doing so.
I do not care about whether other people wake up or not, I really don't know if you can understand that I really do get an awful lot of enjoyment and fun when discussing nonduality on this forum. . and that's all there is to it, it's really no big deal, I have no agenda whatsoever other than to express myself in a Nondual context...because nonduality to me, is the truth, in my opinion...that doesn't mean it is, it's just my opinion which I believe I am more than entiltled to have. In fact I would even go one step further and say it's not even a belief anymore, it's just the way it is. Reality is Nondual fullstop.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmThere are so many ways to look at this. Why do you think it has to be experienced a certain way? And why do you think we're NOT who we should be?
I've never understood why you believe I think it has to be a certain way...I'm only expressing the way I see reality, I'm in no way forcing anyone else to see it my way. Other posters choose to read here and respond here at their will, no one is forcing anyone to believe anything or read this thread, it is what it is, take it or leave it, it's just another expression of the many.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pmI think these are valid and worthwhile questions in direct response to what you've claimed. Answering them might reveal your own investment, limitations, and resistance, which may not be your intention, but why not
explore honestly what you've presented here? Otherwise, it just ends up being a rant with the doors closed, right?
I've always been honest and straight up about everything, all I'm doing is expressing what is my experience. I'm not interested in whether other people agree or disagree with anything I say, I'm simply expressing my personal experience from the perpective of how I see reality.
Just as every other mind in living history has done the same.
For me personally, there is no one to know anything, and that all knowledge is sourced in not-knowing. And that the story of what we tell ourselves is all that can ever be known...and that is what usually sticks.
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