Do Not Blame Muslims!

[Atla]

How does islam support violence?

Muslims know that non-Muslims are inferior, subhuman. So human qualities like empathy don't apply towards non-Muslims; all methods are acceptable and encouraged in converting the subhumans into Muslims.

I asked, How does islam support violence? You talk about what human beings supposedly think and do. Islam is NOT a human being.

Do you really believe that ALL muslims know that non-muslims are inferior, subhuman?

Are you absolutely sure that ALL muslims do not have empathy?

What is wrong with trying to convert other human beings into following peace rather than following war and/or violence?

You are obviously a troll with an agenda

[Age]

Obviously

[Veritas Aequitas]

Let's use the scientific approach, and determine the historic and current evil of Abrahamic religions.

Judaism

Supporting violence: Yes
Violence used historically: from 3.500 BC to 100 AD
Violence today: No

Christianity

Supporting violence: No
Violence used historically: 11th to 17th century
Violence today: No

Islam

Supporting violence: Yes
Violence used historically: Throughout
Violence today: Yes

Conclussion: Islam is currently the most violent religion, and there seems no hope that it will stop for many centuries.

Note:
The type of violence refered to, is that which is commited "in the name of God/Allah/Elohim~Yahweh" or due to instructions from scriptures.

Well analyzed and presented.

Wonder why Age could not see these quite obvious truths?

If they are facts then I can very easily see them. But those "facts" still do NOT agree with your belief that the ideology of islam is violence. If violence was islam's ideology, then every muslim would be committing violence. Not all followers of islam commit violence.

The above are based on facts.
Note Quantum T wrote 'due to instructions from scriptures.'
Thus it is implied the source of the evil acts and violence is from the scriptures, in the case of Islam, it is the Quran, i.e. the sole immutable words of God.
As such we have to refer to the Quran for evidence.

The Quran contains loads and tons of evil laden elements that 'compel' Muslims to commit terrible evil acts and violence on non-Muslims as a divine contractual obligation.
(Nb: I will provide evidence for this meanwhile you have to read the Quran which you have to do so to confirm what I will present is true or not)

I have already provided one clue to the inherent violence in Islam, i.e.

The Trilogy [of Islam] spends a lot of time on the Jews. In Mecca the mention is generally favorable. However, in Medina Jews were the enemy of Islam because they denied Mohammed as the final prophet. Here is the data on the Trilogy texts and the Jews. Notice that the Trilogy has more Jew hatred than Mein Kampf.
http://www.cspipublishing.com/statistic ... _Text.html

Did you notice the above?
Can you prove the above is false?


The ideology of the Nazism is evil and violent.
Did every Nazi member during Hitler's time commit evil acts and violence?
This is the same reason why not every Muslim is committing violence and evil acts.

Islam is NOT a religion of violence.
You, human beings, interpret whatever you want to see, into anything.
It is your interpretation that sees violence in islam.

Can you prove 'Islam is NOT a religion of violence' based on what is presented in the Quran? Prove Islam's central message and ethos is peaceful?

It is not only mine or the interpretation of other non-Muslims that Islam is inherent evil and violent. What is critical is there are likely 20% i.e. 300 millions of Muslims who will agree with those supposedly evil elements but to them such are good divine commands.

There are loads of empirical evidences [to be provided] to support the evil elements and ethos in the Quran inspire [compel] SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evil acts and violence in the name of Islam by quoting verses from the Quran to justify their deeds [to them are good divine duty but in reality is evil to the rest of humanity].

I have pointed out to you that it is extremely simple and easy to kill a non-believer without harming or injuring a human body. But you seem to want to ignore this part completely.

Nope, note I wrote this above;
Another fact is 20% [very conservatively] of all human are born with an active evil tendency.

I also often write;
DNA wise ALL humans are born with the potential to commit evil acts.
Thus I had agreed with your point, it is easy to kill a non-believer even without physical harm.

There is a norm that a religion is by default peaceful, as such the doctrines of religion should be fool proof and not contain any evil element that will lead and compel zealous evil prone believers to commit terrible evil acts and violence in obeyance to please their God.
Note genuine religions like Buddhism and Jainism do not contain any leading evil laden verses that compel their believers to kill non-believers.

Note the purpose of PG Ratings in movies. Even a movie with the best of intention to promote peace will have high PG ratings if it contains excessive evil and violence scenes to avoid influencing vulnerable children and adults.

Theists are very vulnerable subconsciously due to an existential crisis and they will obey God regardless the command is good or evil.
Note Abraham's willingness to kill his very own son as a sacrifice to God and such a highlighted act had inspired many parents to sacrifice their sons/daughters as suicide bombers to please God.
The Quran contains loads and tons of evil elements that exhort hatred, violence and evil acts but unfortunately no Muslim parents [or clergy] would dare to issue warnings to their children and themselves because they cannot go against the words of Allah, else they will go to hell.

Also, even if any religion is currently the most violent one, which could easily be disputed but will leave that alone for now, that in of itself does not mean that violence is the ideology behind that religion.

To confirm the above I suggest you read the Quran thoroughly to understands its main theme [not easy to grasp] which is an ethos of evil in the quest for salvation.

Religion, itself, is not violent. Human beings are the only thing on the planet that can be and are violent.

Movies and other medias themselves are also not violent.
Human beings are the only thing on the planet that can be and are violent.
The fact is evil and violent elements in the movies, media and religious texts will influence and inspire a % of vulnerable and evil prone to commit terrible evil acts and violence.

The evidences, this stats and others;


How can you ignore this so glaring evidence and avoid tracing the above evil acts to its root causes?

To make it even easier and simpler for you to understand. I have heard that the word 'islam', literally, means peace. And, 'muslim', literally, means follower of peace.

Therefore, the world would be a much better place if EVERYONE is a follower of, what leads to, peace.

Do you find any thing wrong with that?

Yes I did ask you if you find any thing wrong with that?
You are yet to reply.

Re the above, I have already stated you heard the incomplete and misleading interpretation "Islam literally means peace."
I have already provided you the wiki link on the meaning of 'Islam' as intended in the context of the Quran.

Peace literally in Arabic is "Salam" i.e. a derivative meaning from the roots S L M.

Salam or salaam (Arabic: سلام‎, salam) is an Arabic word that literally means "peace", but is also used as a general greeting, above all in Arabian countries and by the Muslims and farsi language countries, but also in other countries where Islam is important.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salam

I fully agree if the world would be a better place if everyone is a follower of peace.

But Islam literally means 'submission' or 'surrender' to the will of Allah as represented totally in the Quran which contains loads of evil elements that must be complied by every Muslims.
Why the majority [say 80%] do not comply is because their inherent human nature of being good divert them from the evil elements.

This is why the majority of good/moderate Muslims in any argument on true Islam can never beat the truer Muslims who follow the doctrines of the Quran the words of God literally as commanded.
The stake here is either heaven or hell and no true Muslims would dare to compromise ir twist or ignore the immutable words of Allah in the Quran.

[Veritas Aequitas]

I'm slowly realizing that the above is not obvious to many North Americans.

How does islam support violence?

Muslims know that non-Muslims are inferior, subhuman. So human qualities like empathy don't apply towards non-Muslims; all methods are acceptable and encouraged in converting the subhumans into Muslims.

It is Allah immutable words that condemned non-Muslims as subhuman and inferior thus must be treated like a piece of sh:t.
How can a religion that is supposedly peaceful include such evil and immoral elements of condemning other believers in the worst manner?

Here are a sample (in [] are my notes);

• 8:55. Lo! the Worst* [ShRR; sharra] of Beasts [l-dawābi] in Allah's sight are the ungrateful [kafarū: infidels] who will not believe;
  
  25:44. Or deemest thou that most of them [infidels] hear or understand? They [infidels] are but as the cattle, nay, but they [infidels] are farther astray [DLL; dalal]!
  
  58:20. Lo! those [infidels] who oppose [HDD: yuḥāddūna] Allah and His messenger, they [infidels] will be among the lowest [DhLL: l-adhalīna]. [of creatures]
  
  98:6. Lo! those [infidels] who disbelieve [KFR: kafarū], among the People of the Scripture [Jews and Christians] and the idolaters [l-mush'rikīna], will abide in fire of hell. They [infidels] are the worst [ShRR; sharru] of created beings. [BRA: l-bariyati]. [note contrast 3:110, 98:7 Muslims are the best]
  
  2:65. And ye know of those of you [the Jews] who broke [3DW; itada] the Sabbath, how We said unto them [the Jews]: Be ye apes, despised [KhSA; khāsiīna] and hated!
  
  5:60. Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs [infidels] for retribution with Allah? Worse (is the case of him) [infidel] whom Allah hath cursed [L3N; laʿanahu], him [Kafir] on whom His wrath [GhaDiBa; on Jews] hath fallen! Worse is he [infidel] of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth [waAAabada] idols [l-ṭāghūta]. Such [infidels] are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road.
  
  7:166. So when they [infidels] took pride in that which they [infidels] had been forbidden, We said unto them [infidel]: Be ye apes despised [KhSA; Khāsi'ina] and loathed! [Dehumanized]

[Atla]

It is Allah immutable words that condemned non-Muslims as subhuman and inferior thus must be treated like a piece of sh:t.
How can a religion that is supposedly peaceful include such evil and immoral elements of condemning other believers in the worst manner?

Yep. By "peace", it is largely meant that once every subhuman on the planet has been forced into becoming a Muslim or killed, thus "saved", and Muslims who think too differently have also been forced to change their views or killed, thus "saved", we will have universal peace.

Another peculiarity is that, while most Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews can tell a difference between a secular view and a religious view of the world (even if they may not agree with it), but a secular-religious distinction is incomprehensible for most Muslims. They never came up with such a dichotomy (except maybe in a few countries recently, but it's not really yet part of their thinking).

[Veritas Aequitas]

It is Allah immutable words that condemned non-Muslims as subhuman and inferior thus must be treated like a piece of sh:t.
How can a religion that is supposedly peaceful include such evil and immoral elements of condemning other believers in the worst manner?

Yep. By "peace", it is largely meant that once every subhuman on the planet has been forced into becoming a Muslim or killed, thus "saved", and Muslims who think too differently have also been forced to change their views or killed, thus "saved", we will have universal peace.

Another peculiarity is that, while most Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews can tell a difference between a secular view and a religious view of the world (even if they may not agree with it), but a secular-religious distinction is incomprehensible for most Muslims. They never came up with such a dichotomy (except maybe in a few countries recently, but it's not really yet part of their thinking).

Agree.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Averroes,
Note the following thread.
Will appreciate your comments and there.

What is 'Islam'?
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25123&p=374884#p374884

[gaffo]

Israels illegal occupation of the West Bank violates international law. That is because Jews think they have an absolute moral
right to Israel for themselves as they are Gods chosen people and were without a homeland ever since Pharaoh banished them
from Egypt over two thousand years ago as referenced in all three of the Abrahamic Scriptures : the Torah the Bible the Koran

That is not being done "in the name of God". It's political. Not religious.
It may seem religious to some, but it's not. And it's not even intended to.

its both. Settlers in WB are Halkah Fundies - they believe they are the only ones that have the right to live on that land due to a promise from their God. most of them deny the right of conversion also - so a Palestinian convert will not be recongnized by many/most of these fanatics as one of their own.

then you have non-religous political thugs like Naziyahoo and his Likkudnicks - just tribalists/racists straight up. thier goal is to drive out as many non-jews as possible (in the WB - in Israel too if he could be by with it!).

so that Israel can never be a minority Jewish nation.

of democracy has to die so be it - bring in the cattlecars and build the gas chambers - Judiasm before Demcoracy/liberty.

Israel, such a lovely Regime.

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5088576

[Veritas Aequitas]

You are engaging in bigotry against an entire group of people based only on their shared ethnicity, many of whom have done nothing to you and what's worse is that you are trying to spread your bigotry to others here on the forum. That, is evil.

I have to say the above is a very stupid judgment and view.
I have already stated, do not blame the Muslims but rather on the ideology of Islam.

Note I deliberately raise this OP to explain;

Surely in context [in the various posts above] you should have noted my intention to differentiate between the ideology and the believers.

The example of the clear distinction between Nazism and the German people. Condemnation and critique of Nazism in the 1930-40s was not condemnation of all Germans then.

[Age]

You are engaging in bigotry against an entire group of people based only on their shared ethnicity, many of whom have done nothing to you and what's worse is that you are trying to spread your bigotry to others here on the forum. That, is evil.

I have to say the above is a very stupid judgment and view.

You are free to say whatever you like but just because you BELIEVE some thing to be the case, that BELIEF does not make it the case.

I, for one, agree with the above quote. I see it as NOT a very stupid judgement and view at all, in relation to you. In fact I see the EXACT SAME thing, in relation to you.

Are you aware that you come across as TRYING TO spread your bigotry to others? And, the spreading of bigotry is a major cause of hatred that causes and creates wars, killing, and murders, et cetera which is what some might call EVIL?

That evil tendency that is obviously within you,and which you wholeheartedly state is true, might just be so clever, conniving, and deceitful that you are totally aware of how that evil works, and IS working within you. That evil tendency lurking in you might be showing itself, to us, but without you even seeing or noticing it.

To me, you are DOING the very thing you say you want to STOP.

By the way the person who you WERE having a discussion with before, in another thread, but who you have decided to quote here, and continue on here for some reason, LAST post, to me, seemed very reasonable and nothing like what you are TRYING TO portray here.

That post by them was;

Well. Maybe you are right. I don't like violence, so if Islam is a violent ideology, then it sounds like it is best to discourage belief in it. Of course, I have never been in a situation where preserving my life depended upon doing violence, either. If I were ever to find myself in such a situation--where I had to either fight back or die--I don't know if I would remain nonviolent. So it's difficult for me to judge the beliefs of others harshly who do turn to violence (if it is because they have been pushed to an existential limit where they must fight or die). I don't know if that is the case with everyone in the ME who is using violence or not. I do know that right now many people in the ME are living in horrible times. Many of them (even women and children) are indeed facing existential threats and those existential threats can maybe be tied to the 2003 invasion of Iraq by my country, the United States. Therefore I find it very difficult to judge the beliefs of people in the ME (most of whom practice Islamic faith) harshly.


I hope you can understand my hesitation to judge the beliefs of others harshly in the aftermath of a great injustice done by leaders of my own country to those people.

To me this was a fair comment about one's self and of the country that they live in, and, that they also showed some sort of agreement with was, to me, fair also. They displayed far more agreement with you than I do, i might add.

For now, I would just like to KNOW, Why are you TRYING to ridicule that person, here in this thread?
Are you TRYING TO gain support here?
Are you TRYING TO gain this support, without any input from them? I would be surprised if you had informed them that you were moving this here.
Are you just TRYING TO gather more support to spread more of your bigotry?
Or is it some thing else that you are TRYING TO DO here?

Since I replied, in the other thread, to that person who you were having a discussion with, but since you have moved part of that discussion here, I will repeat what i said below now, with some added extras:

The word 'islam' literally means, or derives from the word, Peace.
The word 'muslim' closely relates to meaning follower.
So, a 'muslim' is just a person who follows Peace.

The ideology of the quran is Peace, and to be a follower of Peace.
This can be clearly seen within the quran, when read from a perspective.

The True intention behind the quran, and ALL religious texts, are the exact same, when read from a perspective.

Did you notice, veritas, that INTERPRETATION of the ideology of islam is DIFFERENT to YOUR INTERPRETATION?

I am pretty sure you did NOTICE THAT. Now, I am going to ask a question of which I do NOT want you to answer, because it is plainly obvious HOW you WILL respond and WHAT you WILL respond with. So, there is NO need for you to answer. This question is for the readers only:

WHO's INTERPRETATION IS RIGHT?

The answer to that question the readers can keep to themselves. Unless of course they say veritas INTERPRETATION IS RIGHT and they want to share that, then feel free to. I, for One, would certainly like to see that.


Now, absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer. So, what is seen and understood, within, and from, ANY thing, is solely depended upon the one looking at it, that is; thee observer.

What is relayed from that observer, the person, is depended upon on how they view things, and obviously from what they have thus seen. What a person sees is not necessarily the actual and real Truth of things. This is because of how they view things, and, how a person views things is dependent solely on past experiences. Unless a person has only had perfect past experiences, then obviously they will have non-perfect views, which then also obviously distort how they then see things.

What the ACTUAL True intention or ideology IS behind or within absolutely any writing can only be Truly KNOWN, obviously, by the one who wrote it. Or, if that one is not around anymore then that True intention can NEVER be known. The closest, however, to discovering the True intention/ideology of any writing is if EVERY one is in agreement on what the True intention or ideology is. Until then, no matter what any person proposes, it is just an assumption opinion, or personal subjective thought of what the True intention/ideology IS.

[Veritas Aequitas]

You are engaging in bigotry against an entire group of people based only on their shared ethnicity, many of whom have done nothing to you and what's worse is that you are trying to spread your bigotry to others here on the forum. That, is evil.

I have to say the above is a very stupid judgment and view.

You are free to say whatever you like but just because you BELIEVE some thing to be the case, that BELIEF does not make it the case.

I, for one, agree with the above quote. I see it as NOT a very stupid judgement and view at all, in relation to you. In fact I see the EXACT SAME thing, in relation to you.

Are you aware that you come across as TRYING TO spread your bigotry to others? And, the spreading of bigotry is a major cause of hatred that causes and creates wars, killing, and murders, et cetera which is what some might call EVIL?

That evil tendency that is obviously within you,and which you wholeheartedly state is true, might just be so clever, conniving, and deceitful that you are totally aware of how that evil works, and IS working within you. That evil tendency lurking in you might be showing itself, to us, but without you even seeing or noticing it.

To me, you are DOING the very thing you say you want to STOP.

By the way the person who you WERE having a discussion with before, in another thread, but who you have decided to quote here, and continue on here for some reason, LAST post, to me, seemed very reasonable and nothing like what you are TRYING TO portray here.

That post by them was;

Well. Maybe you are right. I don't like violence, so if Islam is a violent ideology, then it sounds like it is best to discourage belief in it. Of course, I have never been in a situation where preserving my life depended upon doing violence, either. If I were ever to find myself in such a situation--where I had to either fight back or die--I don't know if I would remain nonviolent. So it's difficult for me to judge the beliefs of others harshly who do turn to violence (if it is because they have been pushed to an existential limit where they must fight or die). I don't know if that is the case with everyone in the ME who is using violence or not. I do know that right now many people in the ME are living in horrible times. Many of them (even women and children) are indeed facing existential threats and those existential threats can maybe be tied to the 2003 invasion of Iraq by my country, the United States. Therefore I find it very difficult to judge the beliefs of people in the ME (most of whom practice Islamic faith) harshly.


I hope you can understand my hesitation to judge the beliefs of others harshly in the aftermath of a great injustice done by leaders of my own country to those people.

To me this was a fair comment about one's self and of the country that they live in, and, that they also showed some sort of agreement with was, to me, fair also. They displayed far more agreement with you than I do, i might add.

For now, I would just like to KNOW, Why are you TRYING to ridicule that person, here in this thread?
Are you TRYING TO gain support here?
Are you TRYING TO gain this support, without any input from them? I would be surprised if you had informed them that you were moving this here.
Are you just TRYING TO gather more support to spread more of your bigotry?
Or is it some thing else that you are TRYING TO DO here?

Since I replied, in the other thread, to that person who you were having a discussion with, but since you have moved part of that discussion here, I will repeat what i said below now, with some added extras:

The word 'islam' literally means, or derives from the word, Peace.
The word 'muslim' closely relates to meaning follower.
So, a 'muslim' is just a person who follows Peace.

The ideology of the quran is Peace, and to be a follower of Peace.
This can be clearly seen within the quran, when read from a perspective.

The True intention behind the quran, and ALL religious texts, are the exact same, when read from a perspective.

Did you notice, veritas, that INTERPRETATION of the ideology of islam is DIFFERENT to YOUR INTERPRETATION?

I am pretty sure you did NOTICE THAT. Now, I am going to ask a question of which I do NOT want you to answer, because it is plainly obvious HOW you WILL respond and WHAT you WILL respond with. So, there is NO need for you to answer. This question is for the readers only:

WHO's INTERPRETATION IS RIGHT?

The answer to that question the readers can keep to themselves. Unless of course they say veritas INTERPRETATION IS RIGHT and they want to share that, then feel free to. I, for One, would certainly like to see that.


Now, absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer. So, what is seen and understood, within, and from, ANY thing, is solely depended upon the one looking at it, that is; thee observer.

What is relayed from that observer, the person, is depended upon on how they view things, and obviously from what they have thus seen. What a person sees is not necessarily the actual and real Truth of things. This is because of how they view things, and, how a person views things is dependent solely on past experiences. Unless a person has only had perfect past experiences, then obviously they will have non-perfect views, which then also obviously distort how they then see things.

What the ACTUAL True intention or ideology IS behind or within absolutely any writing can only be Truly KNOWN, obviously, by the one who wrote it. Or, if that one is not around anymore then that True intention can NEVER be known. The closest, however, to discovering the True intention/ideology of any writing is if EVERY one is in agreement on what the True intention or ideology is. Until then, no matter what any person proposes, it is just an assumption opinion, or personal subjective thought of what the True intention/ideology IS.

We have gone through the above before. You are ignorant of the real Islam and always off tangent.
Note the following ignorance and short-sightedness of yours

The word 'islam' literally means, or derives from the word, Peace.
The word 'muslim' closely relates to meaning follower.
So, a 'muslim' is just a person who follows Peace.

The ideology of the quran is Peace, and to be a follower of Peace.
This can be clearly seen within the quran, when read from a perspective.

Note;

Islam is a verbal noun originating from the triliteral root S-L-M which forms a large class of words mostly relating to concepts of wholeness, submission, safeness, and peace.[43]

In a religious context it means "voluntary submission to God".[44][45] Islām is the verbal noun of Form IV of the root, and means "submission" or "surrender".
Wiki

As a convenience I took the above from Wiki and that is the common meaning of "Islam" in the religious context.
I suggest you view 100 meanings of "Islam" from reliable Islamic sites and verify the above is true.

My issue with the wiki meaning is the word 'voluntary.'
Islam generate an atmosphere of threat of terror [real and HELL] for non-believers thus there is subliminal coercion.

The True intention behind the quran, and ALL religious texts, are the exact same, when read from a perspective.

How can you conclude the above when you have not claim or proven to have read the Quran fully and understood it thoroughly?

[Age]

I have to say the above is a very stupid judgment and view.

You are free to say whatever you like but just because you BELIEVE some thing to be the case, that BELIEF does not make it the case.

I, for one, agree with the above quote. I see it as NOT a very stupid judgement and view at all, in relation to you. In fact I see the EXACT SAME thing, in relation to you.

Are you aware that you come across as TRYING TO spread your bigotry to others? And, the spreading of bigotry is a major cause of hatred that causes and creates wars, killing, and murders, et cetera which is what some might call EVIL?

That evil tendency that is obviously within you,and which you wholeheartedly state is true, might just be so clever, conniving, and deceitful that you are totally aware of how that evil works, and IS working within you. That evil tendency lurking in you might be showing itself, to us, but without you even seeing or noticing it.

To me, you are DOING the very thing you say you want to STOP.

By the way the person who you WERE having a discussion with before, in another thread, but who you have decided to quote here, and continue on here for some reason, LAST post, to me, seemed very reasonable and nothing like what you are TRYING TO portray here.

That post by them was;

Well. Maybe you are right. I don't like violence, so if Islam is a violent ideology, then it sounds like it is best to discourage belief in it. Of course, I have never been in a situation where preserving my life depended upon doing violence, either. If I were ever to find myself in such a situation--where I had to either fight back or die--I don't know if I would remain nonviolent. So it's difficult for me to judge the beliefs of others harshly who do turn to violence (if it is because they have been pushed to an existential limit where they must fight or die). I don't know if that is the case with everyone in the ME who is using violence or not. I do know that right now many people in the ME are living in horrible times. Many of them (even women and children) are indeed facing existential threats and those existential threats can maybe be tied to the 2003 invasion of Iraq by my country, the United States. Therefore I find it very difficult to judge the beliefs of people in the ME (most of whom practice Islamic faith) harshly.


I hope you can understand my hesitation to judge the beliefs of others harshly in the aftermath of a great injustice done by leaders of my own country to those people.

To me this was a fair comment about one's self and of the country that they live in, and, that they also showed some sort of agreement with was, to me, fair also. They displayed far more agreement with you than I do, i might add.

For now, I would just like to KNOW, Why are you TRYING to ridicule that person, here in this thread?
Are you TRYING TO gain support here?
Are you TRYING TO gain this support, without any input from them? I would be surprised if you had informed them that you were moving this here.
Are you just TRYING TO gather more support to spread more of your bigotry?
Or is it some thing else that you are TRYING TO DO here?

Since I replied, in the other thread, to that person who you were having a discussion with, but since you have moved part of that discussion here, I will repeat what i said below now, with some added extras:

The word 'islam' literally means, or derives from the word, Peace.
The word 'muslim' closely relates to meaning follower.
So, a 'muslim' is just a person who follows Peace.

The ideology of the quran is Peace, and to be a follower of Peace.
This can be clearly seen within the quran, when read from a perspective.

The True intention behind the quran, and ALL religious texts, are the exact same, when read from a perspective.

Did you notice, veritas, that INTERPRETATION of the ideology of islam is DIFFERENT to YOUR INTERPRETATION?

I am pretty sure you did NOTICE THAT. Now, I am going to ask a question of which I do NOT want you to answer, because it is plainly obvious HOW you WILL respond and WHAT you WILL respond with. So, there is NO need for you to answer. This question is for the readers only:

WHO's INTERPRETATION IS RIGHT?

The answer to that question the readers can keep to themselves. Unless of course they say veritas INTERPRETATION IS RIGHT and they want to share that, then feel free to. I, for One, would certainly like to see that.


Now, absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer. So, what is seen and understood, within, and from, ANY thing, is solely depended upon the one looking at it, that is; thee observer.

What is relayed from that observer, the person, is depended upon on how they view things, and obviously from what they have thus seen. What a person sees is not necessarily the actual and real Truth of things. This is because of how they view things, and, how a person views things is dependent solely on past experiences. Unless a person has only had perfect past experiences, then obviously they will have non-perfect views, which then also obviously distort how they then see things.

What the ACTUAL True intention or ideology IS behind or within absolutely any writing can only be Truly KNOWN, obviously, by the one who wrote it. Or, if that one is not around anymore then that True intention can NEVER be known. The closest, however, to discovering the True intention/ideology of any writing is if EVERY one is in agreement on what the True intention or ideology is. Until then, no matter what any person proposes, it is just an assumption opinion, or personal subjective thought of what the True intention/ideology IS.

We have gone through the above before. You are ignorant of the real Islam and always off tangent.

Yep we have, and, once again, you will say the other is IGNORANT of the REAL islam, when they view things differently than you do.

You STILL BELIEVE that you, above ALL others, have some magical power and POSSESS the absolute and REAL islam, correct?

Is what I said here REALLY off tangent, or just NOT on the way that you WANT to go?

Note the following ignorance and short-sightedness of yours

Are you REALLY ignorant enough to NOT know that OBVIOUSLY another person can NOT see the ignorance and short-sightedness of THEIRS?


NO matter how hard you TRY you can NOT get another to SEE their own ignorance and short-sightedness. It is ONLY AFTER you stop BEING and SEEING that way, then YOU can SEE the ERRORS of YOUR ways.

The word 'islam' literally means, or derives from the word, Peace.
The word 'muslim' closely relates to meaning follower.
So, a 'muslim' is just a person who follows Peace.

The ideology of the quran is Peace, and to be a follower of Peace.
This can be clearly seen within the quran, when read from a perspective.

Note;

Islam is a verbal noun originating from the triliteral root S-L-M which forms a large class of words mostly relating to concepts of wholeness, submission, safeness, and peace.[43]

In a religious context it means "voluntary submission to God".[44][45] Islām is the verbal noun of Form IV of the root, and means "submission" or "surrender".
Wiki

Yes I do note that, and I also NOTE that that is EXACTLY the SAME as WHAT I SAID, above it.

As a convenience I took the above from Wiki and that is the common meaning of "Islam" in the religious context.

LOL Do you really BELIEVE that the 'COMMON MEANING' of 'islam', in the 'religious context,' would be found in WIKI instead of in some thing else, like the quran, or within some thing like the ones who are called 'muslims'?

Can you really write such things, about WIKI and 'common meanings, especially in regards to things like, "in the RELIGIOUS context", and keep a straight face.

By the way, So what what you say and what wiki says? It all means just about the EXACT SAME as WHAT I SAID.

I suggest you view 100 meanings of "Islam" from reliable Islamic sites and verify the above is true.

Have already.

Also, what do you propose are "RELIABLE" islamic sites?

My issue with the wiki meaning is the word 'voluntary.'
Islam generate an atmosphere of threat of terror [real and HELL] for non-believers thus there is subliminal coercion.

But non-believers are obviously NOT 'voluntary', therefore there is NO issue at all. Unless of course one illusions one up, which you have admitted IS what your brain does do.

So, what you are TRYING TO suggest now IS that 'islam', the word, which is a verbal noun originating from the triliteral root S-L-M which forms a large class of words mostly relating to concepts of WHOLENESS, SUBMISSION, SAFENESS, and PEACE, of ALL things, and the word 'voluntary' SOME HOW turns into 'fear', 'terror', 'violence', 'coercion', etc, which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of PEACE. Is this right?

If yes, then HOW can what originates from loosely PEACE, somehow now become the exact opposite?

The True intention behind the quran, and ALL religious texts, are the exact same, when read from a perspective.

How can you conclude the above when you have not claim or proven to have read the Quran fully and understood it thoroughly?

You, veritas, are unbelievable.

You still can NOT see HOW you are so blind.

Are you so blind-sided by YOUR OWN one-sided VIEWS, that you literally can NOT see what is going on here?

How I CAN conclude the above IS because I have ALREADY done it. And, the conclusion speaks for itself. It can NOT, successfully, be refuted. Unless of course some once can do it. If you, any one, BELIEVE/S it can refuted, then go ahead and do it. I am OPEN to SEEING it because I am WANTING to learn MORE, and understand better.

By the way, A person does NOT have to CLAIM nor PROVE to have read the quran fully and understood it thoroughly, to have ALREADY done it.

[Age]

Well analyzed and presented.

Wonder why Age could not see these quite obvious truths?

If they are facts then I can very easily see them. But those "facts" still do NOT agree with your belief that the ideology of islam is violence. If violence was islam's ideology, then every muslim would be committing violence. Not all followers of islam commit violence.

The above are based on facts.
Note Quantum T wrote 'due to instructions from scriptures.

Note I have ALREADY written that I do NOT SEE the same "instructions" that you SEE. Note, that I wrote it is our INTERPRETATION.

Thus it is implied the source of the evil acts and violence is from the scriptures, in the case of Islam, it is the Quran, i.e. the sole immutable words of God.
As such we have to refer to the Quran for evidence.

Which we HAVE.

You INTERPRET one thing.
I INTERPRET the exact opposite.
We both see and have different so called "evidence".
So, WHO is RIGHT?

The Quran contains loads and tons of evil laden elements that 'compel' Muslims to commit terrible evil acts and violence on non-Muslims as a divine contractual obligation.
(Nb: I will provide evidence for this meanwhile you have to read the Quran which you have to do so to confirm what I will present is true or not)

I have already provided one clue to the inherent violence in Islam, i.e.

The Trilogy [of Islam] spends a lot of time on the Jews. In Mecca the mention is generally favorable. However, in Medina Jews were the enemy of Islam because they denied Mohammed as the final prophet. Here is the data on the Trilogy texts and the Jews. Notice that the Trilogy has more Jew hatred than Mein Kampf.
http://www.cspipublishing.com/statistic ... _Text.html

Did you notice the above?

YES.

Can you prove the above is false?

Can I prove WHAT is false?

The actual words used, or,the INTERPRETATION of the actual words used?

Obviously only ONE could be proved false.

You still, after all this time, ARE STILL MISSING MY WHOLE POINT here.

The ideology of the Nazism is evil and violent.
Did every Nazi member during Hitler's time commit evil acts and violence?
This is the same reason why not every Muslim is committing violence and evil acts.

Islam is NOT a religion of violence.
You, human beings, interpret whatever you want to see, into anything.
It is your interpretation that sees violence in islam.

Can you prove 'Islam is NOT a religion of violence'

YES.

based on what is presented in the Quran?

YES.

Prove Islam's central message and ethos is peaceful?

But I can NOT prove this, to YOU, BECAUSE as I have told you many, many times already, I can NOT BECAUSE you BELIEVE it is NOT peaceful.

From what I have experienced, it is IMPOSSIBLE to SHOW, even with EVIDENCE and PROOF, the TRUTH of some thing to some one who BELIEVES otherwise.

It is not only mine or the interpretation of other non-Muslims that Islam is inherent evil and violent. What is critical is there are likely 20% i.e. 300 millions of Muslims who will agree with those supposedly evil elements but to them such are good divine commands.

STILL INTERPRETATIONS.

There are loads of empirical evidences [to be provided] to support the evil elements and ethos in the Quran inspire [compel] SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evil acts and violence in the name of Islam by quoting verses from the Quran to justify their deeds [to them are good divine duty but in reality is evil to the rest of humanity].

I have pointed out to you that it is extremely simple and easy to kill a non-believer without harming or injuring a human body. But you seem to want to ignore this part completely.

Nope, note I wrote this above;
Another fact is 20% [very conservatively] of all human are born with an active evil tendency.

I also often write;
DNA wise ALL humans are born with the potential to commit evil acts.
Thus I had agreed with your point, it is easy to kill a non-believer even without physical harm.

So, you are AGREEING with me?

REALLY?

You have NOT shown one piece of evidence to this previously.

Tell us ALL here how can you kill a non-believer without physical harm.

To me, if there is NO physical harm, then there is NO violence, which IS PEACE, the ideology of islam.

I have NEVER seen you before AGREE to my point here.

Are you SURE you still WANT to agree with my point?

There is a norm that a religion is by default peaceful, as such the doctrines of religion should be fool proof and not contain any evil element that will lead and compel zealous evil prone believers to commit terrible evil acts and violence in obeyance to please their God.
Note genuine religions like Buddhism and Jainism do not contain any leading evil laden verses that compel their believers to kill non-believers.

LOL

Note the purpose of PG Ratings in movies. Even a movie with the best of intention to promote peace will have high PG ratings if it contains excessive evil and violence scenes to avoid influencing vulnerable children and adults.

LOL

Theists are very vulnerable subconsciously due to an existential crisis and they will obey God regardless the command is good or evil.

LOL

Note Abraham's willingness to kill his very own son as a sacrifice to God and such a highlighted act had inspired many parents to sacrifice their sons/daughters as suicide bombers to please God.

LOL

The Quran contains loads and tons of evil elements that exhort hatred, violence and evil acts but unfortunately no Muslim parents [or clergy] would dare to issue warnings to their children and themselves because they cannot go against the words of Allah, else they will go to hell.

LOL

Also, even if any religion is currently the most violent one, which could easily be disputed but will leave that alone for now, that in of itself does not mean that violence is the ideology behind that religion.

To confirm the above I suggest you read the Quran thoroughly to understands its main theme [not easy to grasp] which is an ethos of evil in the quest for salvation.

Religion, itself, is not violent. Human beings are the only thing on the planet that can be and are violent.

Movies and other medias themselves are also not violent.
Human beings are the only thing on the planet that can be and are violent.
The fact is evil and violent elements in the movies, media and religious texts will influence and inspire a % of vulnerable and evil prone to commit terrible evil acts and violence.

The evidences, this stats and others;


How can you ignore this so glaring evidence and avoid tracing the above evil acts to its root causes?

INTERPRETATIONS.

I have asked you previously; How many deadly terror attacks have been carried out by christian terrorists since a particular date? But you refuse to even look at this factual truth, let alone answer it.

To make it even easier and simpler for you to understand. I have heard that the word 'islam', literally, means peace. And, 'muslim', literally, means follower of peace.

Therefore, the world would be a much better place if EVERYONE is a follower of, what leads to, peace.

Do you find any thing wrong with that?

Yes I did ask you if you find any thing wrong with that?
You are yet to reply.

Re the above, I have already stated you heard the incomplete and misleading interpretation "Islam literally means peace."
I have already provided you the wiki link on the meaning of 'Islam' as intended in the context of the Quran.

Peace literally in Arabic is "Salam" i.e. a derivative meaning from the roots S L M.

Salam or salaam (Arabic: سلام‎, salam) is an Arabic word that literally means "peace", but is also used as a general greeting, above all in Arabian countries and by the Muslims and farsi language countries, but also in other countries where Islam is important.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salam

I fully agree if the world would be a better place if everyone is a follower of peace.

But Islam literally means 'submission' or 'surrender' to the will of Allah as represented totally in the Quran which contains loads of evil elements that must be complied by every Muslims.
Why the majority [say 80%] do not comply is because their inherent human nature of being good divert them from the evil elements.

This is why the majority of good/moderate Muslims in any argument on true Islam can never beat the truer Muslims who follow the doctrines of the Quran the words of God literally as commanded.
The stake here is either heaven or hell and no true Muslims would dare to compromise ir twist or ignore the immutable words of Allah in the Quran.

LOL

You contradict your own self so often that I find this absolutely humorous.

[Age]

It is Allah immutable words that condemned non-Muslims as subhuman and inferior thus must be treated like a piece of sh:t.
How can a religion that is supposedly peaceful include such evil and immoral elements of condemning other believers in the worst manner?

Yep. By "peace", it is largely meant that once every subhuman on the planet has been forced into becoming a Muslim or killed, thus "saved", and Muslims who think too differently have also been forced to change their views or killed, thus "saved", we will have universal peace.

YES EXACTLY RIGHT.

YOU, non-followers of PEACE, that is subhuman, non-muslims, WILL be KILLED. That is, until you have ALL been forced into becoming muslims/followers of PEACE and are ALL brought into this submission of PEACE.

When will YOU ever learn?

Universal PEACE is coming, and all of YOU obviously non-follower of PEACE subhumans will be killed, and thus forced into, and brought up in, PEACE.
This WILL so easily be done, on earth, as it is in HEAVEN.

Another peculiarity is that, while most Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews can tell a difference between a secular view and a religious view of the world (even if they may not agree with it), but a secular-religious distinction is incomprehensible for most Muslims. They never came up with such a dichotomy (except maybe in a few countries recently, but it's not really yet part of their thinking).

And, you BELIEVE that "others" SHOULD have the same "thinking" that you BELIEVE is the true and right thinking, am I right?

Obviously, a very contradictory and extremely peculiar BELIEF that you HAVE, and HOLD onto.

And, BEFORE you even BEGIN to think that what I said above IS contradictory, just consider what I ACTUALLY WROTE.

YOUR response/s WILL show just how much, or how little if any, consideration and thought you actually did put into this.

[Atla]

It is Allah immutable words that condemned non-Muslims as subhuman and inferior thus must be treated like a piece of sh:t.
How can a religion that is supposedly peaceful include such evil and immoral elements of condemning other believers in the worst manner?

Yep. By "peace", it is largely meant that once every subhuman on the planet has been forced into becoming a Muslim or killed, thus "saved", and Muslims who think too differently have also been forced to change their views or killed, thus "saved", we will have universal peace.

YES EXACTLY RIGHT.

YOU, non-followers of PEACE, that is subhuman, non-muslims, WILL be KILLED. That is, until you have ALL been forced into becoming muslims/followers of PEACE and are ALL brought into this submission of PEACE.

When will YOU ever learn?

Universal PEACE is coming, and all of YOU obviously non-follower of PEACE subhumans will be killed, and thus forced into, and brought up in, PEACE.
This WILL so easily be done, on earth, as it is in HEAVEN.

Another peculiarity is that, while most Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews can tell a difference between a secular view and a religious view of the world (even if they may not agree with it), but a secular-religious distinction is incomprehensible for most Muslims. They never came up with such a dichotomy (except maybe in a few countries recently, but it's not really yet part of their thinking).

And, you BELIEVE that "others" SHOULD have the same "thinking" that you BELIEVE is the true and right thinking, am I right?

Obviously, a very contradictory and extremely peculiar BELIEF that you HAVE, and HOLD onto.

And, BEFORE you even BEGIN to think that what I said above IS contradictory, just consider what I ACTUALLY WROTE.

YOUR response/s WILL show just how much, or how little if any, consideration and thought you actually did put into this.

Thank you for confirming it all with your own words.