God is an Impossibility

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 2:40 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 2:23 am As I had stated above, theists in order to secure their irrational beliefs will come up with post-hoc reasons to justify their acts.
Well, you don't know if their beliefs are "irrational," because they certainly have reasons, and you have not, or are not capable of contesting their premises. So you're bluffing on that one.
It is common knowledge all the theistic beliefs to justify God exists as real are irrational.
To put the nail in the coffin for 'God exists as real' I have demonstrated

'God exists as real' is an impossibility and a non-starter.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704
Age
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 7:55 am My argument from the OP,
viewtopic.php?p=367812#p367812
  • P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real
    P2. God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
    C. Therefore God is an impossibility to be real.
Can any theist or non-theist counter the above?
I am neither a theist nor a non-theist but the above can be countered.
surreptitious57
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by surreptitious57 »

God does not have to be perfect but merely the greatest possible being that can actually exist in reality
Perfection like omnipotence and omniscience are arbitrary characteristics given to him by his believers

For they only limit him by their imagination when in actual fact any being has to be restricted by what is empirically possible
A pantheist God for example could exist because such a being would be the Universe so its existence would not be a problem
Age
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 5:25 am God does not have to be perfect but merely the greatest possible being that can actually exist in reality
Perfection like omnipotence and omniscience are arbitrary characteristics given to him by his believers

For they only limit him by their imagination when in actual fact any being has to be restricted by what is empirically possible
A pantheist God for example could exist because such a being would be the Universe so its existence would not be a problem
When I look at the word 'God' and what It refers to, in the visible physical sense, then I see the Universe, Itself.
When I look at the word 'God' and what It refers to, in the non visible spiritual sense, then I see the Mind, Its Self.

When I look at and see this, then there is NO problem at all. What the word 'God' is actually referring to fits in perfectly with what is actually True and Real.

The existence of God, from this perspective, is not just a possibility but an actuality. The proof has been laid out for all to see and is becoming more Self-evident and Self-actuating all of the time.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 5:25 am God does not have to be perfect but merely the greatest possible being that can actually exist in reality.
Perfection like omnipotence and omniscience are arbitrary characteristics given to him by his believers

For they only limit him by their imagination when in actual fact any being has to be restricted by what is empirically possible
A pantheist God for example could exist because such a being would be the Universe so its existence would not be a problem
As usual there are a range of different meaning for the word 'perfect'.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/perfect?s=t
In this case the following meaning is applicable to P1 in the argument;
  • Perfect = unqualified; absolute: [i'll add] totally unconditional
Pantheists will usually claim their God is Absolute,
Example;
  • According to Glyn Richards, the early texts of Hinduism state that the Brahman or the nondual Brahman–Atman is the Absolute.
    -wiki
If you claim your God is empirically possible, I have no issue with that as long as it is qualified as such.
Then you have to list down what empirical qualities your God has.
Since you are claiming your God is only a possibility, then it can only be a speculation and not a real existing God.

For example I can speculate there is a human-liked entity which is billion times more powerful than humans [or any other empirical being one can imagine] and it is existing in a planet 1000 light years away.
This speculation is an empirical possibility [cannot be denied] because all the characteristic of this alien are empirical [bolded above].
But this is only a speculation until actual empirical evidence of such a being is produced for verification and confirmation.

Theists in the meantime claim their Perfect God exists as real to the extend of listening and answering their prayers while at the same time creating and controlling universes. Such a God, I argued, is an impossibility to exists as real empirically and philosophically.
surreptitious57
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
When I look at the word God and what It refers to in the visible physical sense then I see the Universe
When I look at the word God and what It refers to in the non visible spiritual sense then I see the Mind

The existence of God from this perspective is not just a possibility but an actuality
I have no need to define God as such but these two definitions nevertheless make perfect sense - unlike the other more traditional ones
That is because they are entirely compatible with what is known to exist - specifically the observable Universe and human consciousness
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Dontaskme
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Re: God is an Impossibility

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Nothing exists.

The mind changes nothing to everything, because the mind cannot compute nothingness. So nothing is everything, and everything is nothing. Things are every thing and no thing.

This nothing goes by the name of ME. This nothing also goes by the name of God...makes no difference what nothing is labled, it's all the same nothing being everything.

Nothing created itself, if it did it would be able to recreate that creation. The whole of existence cannot recreate itself for one very good reason.
Age
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 8:36 am
Age wrote:
When I look at the word God and what It refers to in the visible physical sense then I see the Universe
When I look at the word God and what It refers to in the non visible spiritual sense then I see the Mind

The existence of God from this perspective is not just a possibility but an actuality
I have no need to define God as such
I have NO need to define God as such also. Absolutely any thing to do with or about God was NEVER in my sights or on my agenda. I just noticed that what human beings have been referring to for thousands of years, when they use the God word, was these things.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 8:36 am but these two definitions nevertheless make perfect sense - unlike the other more traditional ones
That is because they are entirely compatible with what is known to exist - specifically the observable Universe and human consciousness
And, what is known to exist is only what I was looking at and seeing. When most concepts of what God is said to be capable of, like for example; omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, et cetera, then, with these two things the more the pieces of the puzzle of Life start fitting together, and perfectly, and the more the bigger and Truer picture is revealed, and comes to light, as they say.
Age
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 9:04 am Nothing exists.

The mind changes nothing to everything, because the mind cannot compute nothingness. So nothing is everything, and everything is nothing. Things are every thing and no thing.
Are you proposing this as absolute irrefutable Truth? Or, just your truth?
Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 9:04 am This nothing goes by the name of ME. This nothing also goes by the name of God...makes no difference what nothing is labled, it's all the same nothing being everything.

Nothing created itself, if it did it would be able to recreate that creation. The whole of existence cannot recreate itself for one very good reason.
And what do 'you' propose that "one very good reason" is exactly?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Immanuel Can »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 2:54 am It is common knowledge all the theistic beliefs to justify God exists as real are irrational.
You need to get out more.

What's "common" is that 96% of the world's population doesn't believe that. Nevertheless, a belief isn't right simply because of the number of people who believe it. But 4%? I don't think you have a justification for calling that "common."
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 1:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 2:54 am It is common knowledge all the theistic beliefs to justify God exists as real are irrational.
You need to get out more.

What's "common" is that 96% of the world's population doesn't believe that. Nevertheless, a belief isn't right simply because of the number of people who believe it. But 4%? I don't think you have a justification for calling that "common."
It common knowledge within all non-theists.
It is obvious theists will not agree 'God does not exist'.

Here is a book that cover all Arguments For God and the conclusion is the arguments for God within the various themes are problematic.
The best argument according to the book is'
(iv) Theism is Impossible

I have provided my own argument why 'Theism is Impossible to be Real empirically and philosophically.'

The Contents of the book are;
  • Introduction
    Preliminaries

    Direct Arguments for Atheism
    • (i) Theism is Meaningless
      (ii) Theism is Incoherent
      (iii) Theism is Logically Inconsistent
      (iv) Theism is Impossible
      (v) Theism is Inconsistent with Known Fact
      (vi) Theism is Improbable Given Known Fact
      (vii) Theism is Morally Repugnant
      (viii) Finishing Touches
    Comparative Arguments for Atheism
    • (i) Ultimate Explanation
      (ii) Order
      (iii) The Necessary and Knowable A Priori
      (iv) (Objective) Value
      (v) Meaning
      (vi) Consciousness
      (vii) Reason
      (viii) Supernatural Experience
      (ix) (Supernatural) History
      (x) Finishing Touches
    Conclusion
    Bibliography
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Immanuel Can »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:31 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 1:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 2:54 am It is common knowledge all the theistic beliefs to justify God exists as real are irrational.
You need to get out more.

What's "common" is that 96% of the world's population doesn't believe that. Nevertheless, a belief isn't right simply because of the number of people who believe it. But 4%? I don't think you have a justification for calling that "common."
It common knowledge within all non-theists.
You mean with the 4% of people on planet earth who want to imagine they know something they don't actually know? Yep, it's "common" to them, I suppose. I'm not sure that wins you any point.

I'm familiar with that anthology, and in fact have read a great many Atheist essays and treatises -- not merely the "lightweights," but the alleged "greats" like Nietzsche, Hume, Marx and Freud, and the more modern ones, like Mackie, Wielenberg and Buckley. So I'm going to offer you a good read too -- it's short, it's good-natured, it's readable, and even some Atheists have read it with enjoyment. It's called "The Atheist Who Didn't Exist," by Andy Bannister.
Skepdick
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:14 pm It's called "The Atheist Who Didn't Exist," by Andy Bannister.
I did my 5-minute research (watched a video on YouTube).

At about this point in the video Andy makes an argument on "throwing words away that you can't explain to outsiders".

Along similar thinking, I have a question: If you were to throw out the word "God" what word would you replace it with?
surreptitious57
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Re: God is an Impossibility

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Skepdick wrote:
If you were to throw out the word God what word would you replace it with ?
For me that word would be Universe because it is the greatest possible thing that actually exists
I limit my answer to knowledge rather than imagination because what I imagine may not be real
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:39 pm Along similar thinking, I have a question: If you were to throw out the word "God" what word would you replace it with?
That's an odd question. Why would one "throw out" a perfectly serviceable word? :shock:

Or do you just mean, "What are the synonyms for 'God'?" But that seems far too easy a question to answer...a dictionary of synonyms would do it adequately, perhaps.
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