God is an Impossibility

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Ramu
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Ramu » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:53 pm

But Veritas, why do you think non duality is a belief system? God isn't some dude with a long white beard floating around. God=Source=Consciousness.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:30 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:30 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:54 am
Note it is a very common acceptance by theists, that their belief in God is based on faith not proofs nor reason.
Does Veritas Aequitas exist?
Your question is too loose.
Your question need to be more specific.

If the intention of your question is to lead to that ONENESS you claimed to exists as real, that is an illusion in your mind.

Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am

Ramu wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:53 pm
But Veritas, why do you think non duality is a belief system? God isn't some dude with a long white beard floating around. God=Source=Consciousness.
Ramu wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:46 pm
You're conflating religion with non duality. Its not a belief system. Its based on direct experience.
I did not state non-duality it self is a belief system.
Where did I conflate non-duality specifically with religion?

Yes non-duality is a direct experience by religious believers, non-religious, theists, non-theists and others.
Non-duality is also experienced by the mentally sick, the brain damage persons, by taking various drugs, mushrooms, other hallucinogens, etc.

Therefore when a person experienced non-duality it can be due to any of the above reasons.

In more matured and wiser spiritual practices, adherents and practitioners are advises not to delve too much on experiences of non-duality and the likes. Experiences of non-duality should instead to taken as a side-effect and not something targeted to be achieved.

E.g. the Gita's 'Do not be attached to the fruits of action.'
The experience of non-duality is such 'fruits' from one's spiritual journey and its practices.

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Dontaskme
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:56 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am

Yes non-duality is a direct experience by religious believers, non-religious, theists, non-theists and others.
Non-duality is also experienced by the mentally sick, the brain damage persons, by taking various drugs, mushrooms, other hallucinogens, etc.

Therefore when a person experienced non-duality it can be due to any of the above reasons.
No, non-duality is not the direct experience you have posited. Non-duality simply means there is no one to experience being. The direct experience is just to be, not to get. You're posts are very misleading.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
In more matured and wiser spiritual practices, adherents and practitioners are advises not to delve too much on experiences of non-duality and the likes. Experiences of non-duality should instead to taken as a side-effect and not something targeted to be achieved.
Anyone who endorses spiritual practice is a charlatan. You cannot practice being, you are being. You are stuck in the deluded world of belief systems.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
E.g. the Gita's 'Do not be attached to the fruits of action.'
The experience of non-duality is such 'fruits' from one's spiritual journey and its practices.
This in a blatent untruth, the Gita's 'Do not be attached to the fruits of action.' does not mean what you are assuming. Because non-duality is not an experience, knowledge is the experience, with knowledge comes the end of knowledge. Knowledge informs the illusion of a separate knower, aka a 'someone' who knows, it's not a 'someone' who experiences non-duality...non-duality is the knowing that cannot be known.



.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Reflex
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Reflex » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:59 am

Note to VA: You don't possess ideas, ideas possess you.
Non-duality is the knowing that cannot be known.
I like that! :)

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Dontaskme
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:15 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:30 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:30 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:54 am
Note it is a very common acceptance by theists, that their belief in God is based on faith not proofs nor reason.
Does Veritas Aequitas exist?
Your question is too loose.
Your question need to be more specific.

If the intention of your question is to lead to that ONENESS you claimed to exists as real, that is an illusion in your mind.
Anything of the mind is an illusion, an appearance known, that which is known doesn't know anything.

Awareness of the mind is not the mind.

.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:56 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am

Yes non-duality is a direct experience by religious believers, non-religious, theists, non-theists and others.
Non-duality is also experienced by the mentally sick, the brain damage persons, by taking various drugs, mushrooms, other hallucinogens, etc.

Therefore when a person experienced non-duality it can be due to any of the above reasons.
No, non-duality is not the direct experience you have posited. Non-duality simply means there is no one to experience being. The direct experience is just to be, not to get. You're posts are very misleading.
I was going along with Ramu's sort of 'direct experience' which I believe he meant 'spiritual experiences'.

Generally the common experiences is via ordinary waking states of consciousness which is still experienced via an active [not dead] human brain.

In the case of non-duality, that is an altered state of consciousness which is different from ordinary waking state of consciousness.
Nevertheless it is still directly experienced via an active human brain if there is an detachment of the ordinary ego [named personality].

If the brain and person is dead, there is nothing else to it.
On the contrary, you have been claiming there is still that ONE.


Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
In more matured and wiser spiritual practices, adherents and practitioners are advises not to delve too much on experiences of non-duality and the likes. Experiences of non-duality should instead to taken as a side-effect and not something targeted to be achieved.
Anyone who endorses spiritual practice is a charlatan. You cannot practice being, you are being. You are stuck in the deluded world of belief systems.
You are talking nonsense.
In general, how can a person cultivates spirituality if that person do not do the necessary exercises to rewire the brain to increase one's Spiritual Quotient?

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
E.g. the Gita's 'Do not be attached to the fruits of action.'
The experience of non-duality is such 'fruits' from one's spiritual journey and its practices.
This in a blatent untruth, the Gita's 'Do not be attached to the fruits of action.' does not mean what you are assuming. Because non-duality is not an experience, knowledge is the experience, with knowledge comes the end of knowledge. Knowledge informs the illusion of a separate knower, aka a 'someone' who knows, it's not a 'someone' who experiences non-duality...non-duality is the knowing that cannot be known.
You are talking nonsense again.

Note the general understanding of 'experience'';
Experience is the knowledge or mastery of an event or subject gained through involvement in or exposure to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience
Here are some points which I have been presenting for you to note.
Mystics can describe their visions as "spiritual experiences".

1. However, psychology and neuropsychology[7] may explain the same experiences in terms of altered states of consciousness, which may come about accidentally through (for example) very high fever, infections such as meningitis, sleep deprivation, fasting, oxygen deprivation, nitrogen narcosis (deep diving), psychosis, temporal-lobe epilepsy, or a traumatic accident.

2. People can likewise achieve such experiences more deliberately through recognized mystical practices such as sensory deprivation or mind-control techniques, hypnosis, meditation, prayer, or mystical disciplines such as mantra meditation, yoga, Sufism, dream yoga, or surat shabda yoga.

3. Some practices encourage spiritual experiences through the ingestion of psychoactive drugs such as alcohol and opiates, but more commonly with entheogenic plants and substances such as cannabis, salvia divinorum, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote, DXM, ayahuasca, or datura.

4. Another way to induce spiritual experience through an altered state of consciousness involves psychoacoustics, binaural beats, or light-and-sound stimulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience#Spiritual

Since you are not following any spiritual traditions and engaged in the various practices as in 2, your experience of non-duality is likely to arise from 1, maybe temporal epilepsy or something else that happened in your brain.
If not, do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?

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Dontaskme
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:15 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
I was going along with Ramu's sort of 'direct experience' which I believe he meant 'spiritual experiences'.
No, you were projecting your own ideas about 'direct experience' onto ramu as if they belonged to ramu. You cannot know what other peoples experiences are, you have to taste it for yourself, no one can tell you what the taste of an orange is like, you have to experience it for yourself, albeit illusory.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
Generally the common experiences is via ordinary waking states of consciousness which is still experienced via an active [not dead] human brain.
That's just a generalised common myth... a lie.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
In the case of non-duality, that is an altered state of consciousness which is different from ordinary waking state of consciousness.
No it is not, why don't you listen, you are like a worn out record. There is no one to have an altered state of consciousness. There is only consciousness experiencing different states of expression.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
Nevertheless it is still directly experienced via an active human brain if there is an detachment of the ordinary ego [named personality].

If the brain and person is dead, there is nothing else to it.
On the contrary, you have been claiming there is still that ONE.
People don't die. A person is an idea, the idea of the person dies, the idea ceases to be online. Consciousness alternates between being online or offline, but it's never dead, because it has never been born. The dead do not come online, going offline does not mean death., if consciousness was dead, it wouldn't be able to come back online. It's the neutral state that is neither conscious nor unconcious, consciousness has no concept of itself, and yet all concepts are known only to consciousness, as a fictional story.

Anyone who endorses spiritual practice is a charlatan. You cannot practice being, you are being. You are stuck in the deluded world of belief systems.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
You are talking nonsense.
In general, how can a person cultivates spirituality if that person do not do the necessary exercises to rewire the brain to increase one's Spiritual Quotient?
It doesn't work in the way you think it does, a person doesn't do anything, there is no such thing as a person, it's a concept known by consciousness. No person has ever been seen, there is only consciousness knowing itself. Awakening is what life itself evolves to happen when its supposed to happen, everything happens spontaneously, no practice is involved in what happens quite naturally and spontanously. No force on earth will make whats not meant to happen happen, and that is basically what you are implying when you state that to ''wake-up'' requires practice. This is the work of a charlatan, a fraud. Its absolute nonsense, that is believed to be real..

Everything that happens in life is a spontaneous arising within consciousness itself. No thing is making that happen. Rewiring the brain is a function of consciousness, nothing more.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am

Note the general understanding of 'experience'';

Seriously, so knowledge is owned by a person is it, a person that only exists as illusory knowledge.
No one experiences anything, there is only ''experience'' consciousness is experiencing.



Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
You are talking nonsense again.

Note the general understanding of 'experience'';
Experience is the knowledge or mastery of an event or subject gained through involvement in or exposure to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience
Here are some points which I have been presenting for you to note.
Mystics can describe their visions as "spiritual experiences".

1. However, psychology and neuropsychology[7] may explain the same experiences in terms of altered states of consciousness, which may come about accidentally through (for example) very high fever, infections such as meningitis, sleep deprivation, fasting, oxygen deprivation, nitrogen narcosis (deep diving), psychosis, temporal-lobe epilepsy, or a traumatic accident.

2. People can likewise achieve such experiences more deliberately through recognized mystical practices such as sensory deprivation or mind-control techniques, hypnosis, meditation, prayer, or mystical disciplines such as mantra meditation, yoga, Sufism, dream yoga, or surat shabda yoga.

3. Some practices encourage spiritual experiences through the ingestion of psychoactive drugs such as alcohol and opiates, but more commonly with entheogenic plants and substances such as cannabis, salvia divinorum, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote, DXM, ayahuasca, or datura.

4. Another way to induce spiritual experience through an altered state of consciousness involves psychoacoustics, binaural beats, or light-and-sound stimulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience#Spiritual

Since you are not following any spiritual traditions and engaged in the various practices as in 2, your experience of non-duality is likely to arise from 1, maybe temporal epilepsy or something else that happened in your brain.
If not, do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?
It's all fictional story man. Seriously, it means diddly squat, flush it down the toilet for all its worth, what's important here is that which is aware of the story that is not identified with the story, that's all that matters. Nonduality does not mention any of this Bullcrap in its literature. I don't think you fully understand what nonduality is pointing to, your just another knowledge junkie, welcome to the zombie jamboree.





Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?
Yes.

You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.

What you think you are, is the experience no thing is having...but it's just an idea, so what is an idea?.. I have no idea.

.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
I was going along with Ramu's sort of 'direct experience' which I believe he meant 'spiritual experiences'.
No, you were projecting your own ideas about 'direct experience' onto ramu as if they belonged to ramu. You cannot know what other peoples experiences are, you have to taste it for yourself, no one can tell you what the taste of an orange is like, you have to experience it for yourself, albeit illusory.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
Generally the common experiences is via ordinary waking states of consciousness which is still experienced via an active [not dead] human brain.
That's just a generalised common myth... a lie.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
In the case of non-duality, that is an altered state of consciousness which is different from ordinary waking state of consciousness.
No it is not, why don't you listen, you are like a worn out record. There is no one to have an altered state of consciousness. There is only consciousness experiencing different states of expression.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
Nevertheless it is still directly experienced via an active human brain if there is an detachment of the ordinary ego [named personality].

If the brain and person is dead, there is nothing else to it.
On the contrary, you have been claiming there is still that ONE.
People don't die. A person is an idea, the idea of the person dies, the idea ceases to be online. Consciousness alternates between being online or offline, but it's never dead, because it has never been born. The dead do not come online, going offline does not mean death., if consciousness was dead, it wouldn't be able to come back online. It's the neutral state that is neither conscious nor unconcious, consciousness has no concept of itself, and yet all concepts are known only to consciousness, as a fictional story.

Anyone who endorses spiritual practice is a charlatan. You cannot practice being, you are being. You are stuck in the deluded world of belief systems.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
You are talking nonsense.
In general, how can a person cultivates spirituality if that person do not do the necessary exercises to rewire the brain to increase one's Spiritual Quotient?
It doesn't work in the way you think it does, a person doesn't do anything, there is no such thing as a person, it's a concept known by consciousness. No person has ever been seen, there is only consciousness knowing itself. Awakening is what life itself evolves to happen when its supposed to happen, everything happens spontaneously, no practice is involved in what happens quite naturally and spontanously. No force on earth will make whats not meant to happen happen, and that is basically what you are implying when you state that to ''wake-up'' requires practice. This is the work of a charlatan, a fraud. Its absolute nonsense, that is believed to be real..

Everything that happens in life is a spontaneous arising within consciousness itself. No thing is making that happen. Rewiring the brain is a function of consciousness, nothing more.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am

Note the general understanding of 'experience'';

Seriously, so knowledge is owned by a person is it, a person that only exists as illusory knowledge.
No one experiences anything, there is only ''experience'' consciousness is experiencing.



Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
You are talking nonsense again.

Note the general understanding of 'experience'';
Experience is the knowledge or mastery of an event or subject gained through involvement in or exposure to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience
Here are some points which I have been presenting for you to note.
Mystics can describe their visions as "spiritual experiences".

1. However, psychology and neuropsychology[7] may explain the same experiences in terms of altered states of consciousness, which may come about accidentally through (for example) very high fever, infections such as meningitis, sleep deprivation, fasting, oxygen deprivation, nitrogen narcosis (deep diving), psychosis, temporal-lobe epilepsy, or a traumatic accident.

2. People can likewise achieve such experiences more deliberately through recognized mystical practices such as sensory deprivation or mind-control techniques, hypnosis, meditation, prayer, or mystical disciplines such as mantra meditation, yoga, Sufism, dream yoga, or surat shabda yoga.

3. Some practices encourage spiritual experiences through the ingestion of psychoactive drugs such as alcohol and opiates, but more commonly with entheogenic plants and substances such as cannabis, salvia divinorum, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote, DXM, ayahuasca, or datura.

4. Another way to induce spiritual experience through an altered state of consciousness involves psychoacoustics, binaural beats, or light-and-sound stimulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience#Spiritual

Since you are not following any spiritual traditions and engaged in the various practices as in 2, your experience of non-duality is likely to arise from 1, maybe temporal epilepsy or something else that happened in your brain.
If not, do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?
It's all fictional story man. Seriously, it means diddly squat, flush it down the toilet for all its worth, what's important here is that which is aware of the story that is not identified with the story, that's all that matters. Nonduality does not mention any of this Bullcrap in its literature. I don't think you fully understand what nonduality is pointing to, your just another knowledge junkie, welcome to the zombie jamboree.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?
Yes.

You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.

What you think you are, is the experience no thing is having...but it's just an idea, so what is an idea?.. I have no idea.
Your ideas above are a messed-up of conflations.

Dontaskme: You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.

What is that "it" if "it' does not exist?
That is why I have stated your thoughts are messed up and you just cannot see it yourself.

In the case of the concept of non-duality, there are two perspective to it i.e.
  • 1. Knowledge of non-duality.
    2. Direct experience plus knowledge of non-duality.
One good example is the non-dual experiences of Jill Bolte, the neuroscientist, which I presume you are familiar with [?].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

While Jill Bolte was in an altered state of consciousness of non-duality [from a serious brain damage] and an apparently complete detachment from her normal conscious waking self [i.e. not associated with Jill Bolte the person], there is still a 'self'* of that specific body that was experiencing that non-duality.
*there are many layers of a person's self beyond one normal conscious within the sub-conscious self.

In Jill Bolte's case, she was able to shift from her subconscious self to her normal waking self. It is just like one is chased by a monster in a dream state, but is able to wake up suddenly by various means into normal waking consciousness.

In this case, Jill Bolte have had a direct experience of non-duality [no "I am Jill Bolte'] and this direct experience permeated through her normal waking conscious state as an experience. In this case there are two perspectives an experiencing.
Note while there was an experience without the basis of 'I am Jill Bolte' but simply an experience, such an experience is still specifically confined to that living human body which is identified as Jill Bolte's.

As in the above example, Jill Bolte have direct experience and gain direct knowledge of non-duality from her experience.
But note the fact is, Jill Bolte is not in a constant state of non-duality but the experience is so significant that she is aware of it easily.
It is just like an orgasm [which many posit is a non-dual state and experience] which is not with the person 24/7.

As for me I have prior knowledge of non-duality from reading and have had experienced of non-duality [not as pronounced as Jill Bolte's] during meditation sessions [not all the time].

It would better with direct experience, but what is most important within spirituality and philosophy is whether one know and have established the competence of how to apply the concept [better with experience] to one's life positively.

This is why in most matured spirituality, the attention is not on the experience of non-duality like that of Jill Bolte but rather on the concept and knowledge of how to apply non-duality to real life.

Another critical point is one cannot focus merely on non-duality but it must be complemented with the principles of duality in every aspect of one's life.

The over focus on non-duality like what you are doing is actually engaging duality it self within your subconscious self and ended with chasing an illusion within the subconscious level of your mind/brain.

Note Jill Bolte experienced a very extreme form of non-duality due to a severe brain damage [stroke]. There is a possibility one could experience non-duality from some very minor stroke or other anomaly in the brain, which could be your case because you did not experience non-duality via known established spiritual practices.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:06 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
I was going along with Ramu's sort of 'direct experience' which I believe he meant 'spiritual experiences'.
No, you were projecting your own ideas about 'direct experience' onto ramu as if they belonged to ramu. You cannot know what other peoples experiences are, you have to taste it for yourself, no one can tell you what the taste of an orange is like, you have to experience it for yourself, albeit illusory.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
Generally the common experiences is via ordinary waking states of consciousness which is still experienced via an active [not dead] human brain.
That's just a generalised common myth... a lie.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
In the case of non-duality, that is an altered state of consciousness which is different from ordinary waking state of consciousness.
No it is not, why don't you listen, you are like a worn out record. There is no one to have an altered state of consciousness. There is only consciousness experiencing different states of expression.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
Nevertheless it is still directly experienced via an active human brain if there is an detachment of the ordinary ego [named personality].

If the brain and person is dead, there is nothing else to it.
On the contrary, you have been claiming there is still that ONE.
People don't die. A person is an idea, the idea of the person dies, the idea ceases to be online. Consciousness alternates between being online or offline, but it's never dead, because it has never been born. The dead do not come online, going offline does not mean death., if consciousness was dead, it wouldn't be able to come back online. It's the neutral state that is neither conscious nor unconcious, consciousness has no concept of itself, and yet all concepts are known only to consciousness, as a fictional story.

Anyone who endorses spiritual practice is a charlatan. You cannot practice being, you are being. You are stuck in the deluded world of belief systems.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
You are talking nonsense.
In general, how can a person cultivates spirituality if that person do not do the necessary exercises to rewire the brain to increase one's Spiritual Quotient?
It doesn't work in the way you think it does, a person doesn't do anything, there is no such thing as a person, it's a concept known by consciousness. No person has ever been seen, there is only consciousness knowing itself. Awakening is what life itself evolves to happen when its supposed to happen, everything happens spontaneously, no practice is involved in what happens quite naturally and spontanously. No force on earth will make whats not meant to happen happen, and that is basically what you are implying when you state that to ''wake-up'' requires practice. This is the work of a charlatan, a fraud. Its absolute nonsense, that is believed to be real..

Everything that happens in life is a spontaneous arising within consciousness itself. No thing is making that happen. Rewiring the brain is a function of consciousness, nothing more.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am

Note the general understanding of 'experience'';

Seriously, so knowledge is owned by a person is it, a person that only exists as illusory knowledge.
No one experiences anything, there is only ''experience'' consciousness is experiencing.



Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
You are talking nonsense again.

Note the general understanding of 'experience'';
Experience is the knowledge or mastery of an event or subject gained through involvement in or exposure to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience
Here are some points which I have been presenting for you to note.
Mystics can describe their visions as "spiritual experiences".

1. However, psychology and neuropsychology[7] may explain the same experiences in terms of altered states of consciousness, which may come about accidentally through (for example) very high fever, infections such as meningitis, sleep deprivation, fasting, oxygen deprivation, nitrogen narcosis (deep diving), psychosis, temporal-lobe epilepsy, or a traumatic accident.

2. People can likewise achieve such experiences more deliberately through recognized mystical practices such as sensory deprivation or mind-control techniques, hypnosis, meditation, prayer, or mystical disciplines such as mantra meditation, yoga, Sufism, dream yoga, or surat shabda yoga.

3. Some practices encourage spiritual experiences through the ingestion of psychoactive drugs such as alcohol and opiates, but more commonly with entheogenic plants and substances such as cannabis, salvia divinorum, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote, DXM, ayahuasca, or datura.

4. Another way to induce spiritual experience through an altered state of consciousness involves psychoacoustics, binaural beats, or light-and-sound stimulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience#Spiritual

Since you are not following any spiritual traditions and engaged in the various practices as in 2, your experience of non-duality is likely to arise from 1, maybe temporal epilepsy or something else that happened in your brain.
If not, do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?
It's all fictional story man. Seriously, it means diddly squat, flush it down the toilet for all its worth, what's important here is that which is aware of the story that is not identified with the story, that's all that matters. Nonduality does not mention any of this Bullcrap in its literature. I don't think you fully understand what nonduality is pointing to, your just another knowledge junkie, welcome to the zombie jamboree.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?
Yes.

You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.

What you think you are, is the experience no thing is having...but it's just an idea, so what is an idea?.. I have no idea.
Your ideas above are a messed-up of conflations.

Dontaskme: You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.

What is that "it" if "it' does not exist?
That is why I have stated your thoughts are messed up and you just cannot see it yourself.

In the case of the concept of non-duality, there are two perspective to it i.e.
  • 1. Knowledge of non-duality.
    2. Direct experience plus knowledge of non-duality.
One good example is the non-dual experiences of Jill Bolte, the neuroscientist, which I presume you are familiar with [?].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

While Jill Bolte was in an altered state of consciousness of non-duality [from a serious brain damage] and an apparently complete detachment from her normal conscious waking self [i.e. not associated with Jill Bolte the person], there is still a 'self'* of that specific body that was experiencing that non-duality.
*there are many layers of a person's self beyond one normal conscious within the sub-conscious self.

In Jill Bolte's case, she was able to shift from her subconscious self to her normal waking self. It is just like one is chased by a monster in a dream state, but is able to wake up suddenly by various means into normal waking consciousness.

In this case, Jill Bolte have had a direct experience of non-duality [no "I am Jill Bolte'] and this direct experience permeated through her normal waking conscious state as an experience. In this case there are two perspectives an experiencing.
Note while there was an experience without the basis of 'I am Jill Bolte' but simply an experience, such an experience is still specifically confined to that living human body which is identified as Jill Bolte's.

As in the above example, Jill Bolte have direct experience and gain direct knowledge of non-duality from her experience.
But note the fact is, Jill Bolte is not in a constant state of non-duality but the experience is so significant that she is aware of it easily.
It is just like an orgasm [which many posit is a split second non-dual state] which is not with the person 24/7.

As for me I have prior knowledge of non-duality from reading and have had experienced of non-duality [not as pronounced as Jill Bolte's] during meditation sessions [not all the time].

It would better with direct experience, but what is most important within spirituality and philosophy is whether one know and have established the competence of how to apply the concept of duality [better with experience] to one's life positively.

This is why in most matured spirituality, the attention is not on the experience of non-duality like that of Jill Bolte but rather on the concept and knowledge of how to apply non-duality to real life.

Another critical point is one cannot focus merely on non-duality but it must be complemented with the principles of duality in every aspect of one's life. Note the Buddha's Two-Truth Theory.

The over focus on non-duality like what you are doing is actually engaging duality itself within your subconscious self and ended with chasing an illusion within the subconscious level of your mind/brain.

Note Jill Bolte experienced a very extreme form of non-duality due to a severe brain damage [stroke]. There is a possibility one could experience non-duality from some very minor stroke or other anomaly in the brain [note the wiki list I linked above], which could be your case because you did not experience non-duality via known established spiritual practices, drugs, other perverted practices, etc.

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Dontaskme
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:09 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:06 am
Your ideas above are a messed-up of conflations.

Dontaskme: You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.

What is that "it" if "it' does not exist?
That is why I have stated your thoughts are messed up and you just cannot see it yourself.
You asked me did I have an idea how to experience non-duality.

To which I replied you cannot experience that which does not exist.

There is no non-duality because there is no other than non-duality. You don't experience it. You ARE IT. IT IS YOU. THIS IS IT.

This makes perfect sense to me. But for you it's messed up thinking, that's fine, I accept your judgment of my thoughts, but the judgement is not true in my eyes.

You seem to like projecting what you can't see as if that is my not seeing, this is very silly but a common trick of the mind. All we can do is accept unconditionally that what people see is what they see and cannot see it any other way, it is not up to another to tell them they cannot see how messed up their thoughts are, as you have no proof of that.

The problem with non-duality is either you get it or you don't. That doesn't make anyone less than anyone else because we're all unique experessions of the ONE.

In the dream of separation, the character in the dream believes it is the character. Human consciousness is transcendental, it can flip from being the character in the dream to the dreamer of the dream.

The dreamer is awareness, aware of the dream, dreams being many, the dreamer always the ONE.

In Non-duality One cannot exist, because there is only ONE. You cannot experience ONE because that would require you to split in two, into the experiencer and the experience, the two are always ever ONE unitrary action.

It's our conditioning that is to blame ..the problem all started when your mother gave you a name...from that day forward there was two of you, there was the you that has always been you, and then there was the other you, your identification, the false overlay upon you.

This makes perfect sense to some, but will befuddle others...but nothing wrong with that, it's all in the dream of separation, no one is having.

People are just not used to hearing about this, they know of it, but don't speak about it, I happen to like speaking about it, and I do believe that the more we speak about it the better we will feel about ourselves, it really is the peace that passes all understanding.


.

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Dontaskme
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:20 am

Jill Bolte was just the ice cube merging with the water, or for want of another expression, the wave within the ocean.

Jill Bolte was the experience of the ocean waving, not the other way round. Jill Bolte wasn't having the experience, she WAS the EXPERIENCE in awareness.

There is only AWARENESS (ocean)in which multiple experiences (waves)arise and fall.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:07 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:09 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:06 am
Your ideas above are a messed-up of conflations.

Dontaskme: You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.

What is that "it" if "it' does not exist?
That is why I have stated your thoughts are messed up and you just cannot see it yourself.
You asked me did I have an idea how to experience non-duality.

To which I replied you cannot experience that which does not exist.

There is no non-duality because there is no other than non-duality. You don't experience it. You ARE IT. IT IS YOU. THIS IS IT.

This makes perfect sense to me. But for you it's messed up thinking, that's fine, I accept your judgment of my thoughts, but the judgement is not true in my eyes.

You seem to like projecting what you can't see as if that is my not seeing, this is very silly but a common trick of the mind. All we can do is accept unconditionally that what people see is what they see and cannot see it any other way, it is not up to another to tell them they cannot see how messed up their thoughts are, as you have no proof of that.

The problem with non-duality is either you get it or you don't. That doesn't make anyone less than anyone else because we're all unique experessions of the ONE.

In the dream of separation, the character in the dream believes it is the character. Human consciousness is transcendental, it can flip from being the character in the dream to the dreamer of the dream.

The dreamer is awareness, aware of the dream, dreams being many, the dreamer always the ONE.

In Non-duality One cannot exist, because there is only ONE. You cannot experience ONE because that would require you to split in two, into the experiencer and the experience, the two are always ever ONE unitrary action.

It's our conditioning that is to blame ..the problem all started when your mother gave you a name...from that day forward there was two of you, there was the you that has always been you, and then there was the other you, your identification, the false overlay upon you.

This makes perfect sense to some, but will befuddle others...but nothing wrong with that, it's all in the dream of separation, no one is having.

People are just not used to hearing about this, they know of it, but don't speak about it, I happen to like speaking about it, and I do believe that the more we speak about it the better we will feel about ourselves, it really is the peace that passes all understanding.
You missed my point.

As I had stated there are may layers to one's self.
  • 1. the named-self, parents give the name as you stated above.
    2. the un-named self and selves
Point is even if one is not given a name, DNA wise all normal human being will have a sense of self with or without name.

Note some animals like primates, elephant, dolphins, even crows can achieve a sense-of self even without a name or brought up like humans.
If only they can talk linguistics they will probably say "I".

If you look at videos of Koko the talking gorilla, you will see a semblance it is implyinf as sense of "I" in one way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1HcU7taTbo

I agree there is a sense of oneness of the self but what you are proposing is ONENESS [in cap] which is thus duality, i.e.

oneness of self against ONENESS.

Btw, is your ONENESS permanent, i.e. it does not disappear with the death of the person?

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Dontaskme
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:18 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:07 am
You missed my point.
No, I did not miss your point, I understand everything you have said, and on the human level I agree with it all. It's the story of the ONE. I've read the whole book, I am the reader.

.

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Dontaskme
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:19 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:07 am

Btw, is your ONENESS permanent, i.e. it does not disappear with the death of the person?
There is no person in my world anymore. I am everything and nothing.

I have never known death, so can't speak about that.

.

BTW, Non-duality is Duality..duality cannot not be duality...it's the dream of separation.

.

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