Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:01 am
My point in the snake and rope analogy;
Theists will insist they saw a real snake [which in reality was a rope] and keep insisting they saw a real snake.
Then they tell the whole village and then the whole world 'that' is a real snake.
After a while there is no way of verifying the truth, so they insist what they claim is the truth, i.e. what they saw was a real snake.
This is the same ashallucination insisting there is a real God [which in reality is an illusion] and keep insisting there is a real existing God.
Okay so far, what they the ''theists'' thought was real was an illusion, it wasn't a real snake.
But my point in the snake and rope analogy...is, like the mirror trick. You cannot see what's looking, you can only see what's seen. So the seen is the mirror in which the looker sees itself and thinks the reflection is who they are. But, the looker, lets call it awareness cannot experience itself as the object seen, it cannot experience itself as the reflection, it is the reflection. The reflection is the experience.
Here we see the reflection as being the ''rope'' and the seer of the reflection (rope)..is the seer (the snake)...
The seer is the real, and the reflection of the seer, is the ''illusory other'' which is unreal....here it is realised that both real and unreal exist together as one in the same experience. This analogy is all that can be knowable. So with this dilemma, nothing can be said about impossibilties as an absolute truth, because real and unreal are two sides of the same reality. And there is no way to differentiate between the apparent two, they are one and the same reality.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:01 am
Theists will insists God [like that 'snake' which is illusory] is very real and some will kill those who deny God is real.
I understand that by using a concept to say whether reality is real or not, is the delusion since we've already established that concepts are not real. But still, with any dicussion about the ineffable reality that is being alive ..concepts are all we've got to describe it, and is why the sage cannot speak without turning the real into the unreal. Silence is real, it's the sound that comes out of silence that is the illusion, and part of that sound is language heard as words..aka the story, it's the conceptual story that is the illusion. Even though the story is inseparable from the reader, in the same context a book is inseparable from the story, they come as one indivisible reality.
So again, there is no way to make a distinction ..to pronounce impossibilties as an absolute truth....there's just no way this is possible.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:46 am
Now, will you tell the people of your village and the whole world what you are seeing, i.e. image of two real normal faces is the truth and nothing else but the truth?
Will you keep insisting those are two normal faces and condemn those who disagree with you?
Here is the BIG SURPRISE!!
In fact your self have lied to you to deceive you in seeing two normal faces.
The image of the face on the right is not a 'normal' face but your internal brain had lied to you it is normal.
Now turn your head infront of the screen [or turn your tablet or laptop monitor] and look at the image on the right.
You will see an abnormal face, like this,
There is a natural evolved brain mechanism to cheat you with a lie, i.e. seeing the illusion of a normal face [empirical] when the actual image is that of an abnormal distorted face.
It the same brain mechanism at a more finer level
that is cheating you with a lie, i.e. the transcendental illusion of a real God or 'that', or 'it' whatever you claimed is ultimate.
It is easy to demonstrate the above face illusion using the above exercise but to understand how that same brain mechanism tricks theists in believing a real God [when in reality it is illusory] require very deep thinking and reflection.
The compulsion [even trigger some to kill to defend their belief] is so strong I am sure you are not likely to understand my point. Note this is only a discussion.
I get this, but I don't think it is relevant to the discussion ..since we know about the tricky that is the mind. The mind is the grand illusionist.This is more to do with how information is coded and received by the brain. The world we see is one big hallucination anyway, it's a projection of informational waves received by the brain and transmitted into living pictures much the same way a Television set works.
The images of the two faces, is typical of the mirror trick, in that the distortion is simply another appearance within consciousness, it's nothing more than another hallucination within the hallucination that is this living sound and light show called the reality of being alive.
Any distortion is simply a programme written into the matrix by evolution itself as seen and known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.
At the end of the day both real and unreal exist as one indivisible reality and cannot be separated or negated.