Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Necromancer
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:30 am
Location: Metropolitan-Oslo, Norway, Europe
Contact:

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Necromancer » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:18 pm

My opinion is, by information of the Archangels who I've connected with, that monsters like Adolf Hitler burn in Hell with excruciating pains for no less than a 1000 years, minimum!

There is no particular promise in becoming a monster, doing the absurdly immoral, waging a war against all that's human, all that's part of nature etc. Whether it's the mentality and lusting for torture so despicable there's no word... A thousand years in burning Hell, that's what I promise given my connections to the Archangels. I think of it as them losing their minds a 2nd time, totally mind-busted from their own sadistic and perverted mentalities!

A bit of cold water into the blood... 8) :mrgreen:

Belinda
Posts: 2813
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Belinda » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:25 pm

If there be absolute justice it is beyond and largely incomprehensible to men, whether or not they call themselves Christians or whatever.

If, on the other hand justice is not ever absolute but is nothing but a human value there cannot be levels of good and bad beyond the human..

Dubious
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Dubious » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:15 pm

To think that Hitler and suchlike could go in either direction presupposes some operating moral in the universe. Why it would have one is beyond conception.

Whether Hitler or St. Francis of Assisi make no difference. They, we and all, without any recognition of Good or Evil, are fated to be neutralized within the default empire of existence called oblivion.

If the universe doesn't care about your existence one way or the other, it has no other place to put you. Without the inclusion of time or space even eternity lasts but a minuscule moment...the best possible scenario also being the most logical.

seeds
Posts: 765
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by seeds » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:01 pm

Necromancer wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:18 pm
My opinion is, by information of the Archangels who I've connected with, that monsters like Adolf Hitler burn in Hell with excruciating pains for no less than a 1000 years, minimum!
If what you have suggested is even remotely possible then it would evoke an utterly unconscionable yet inescapable form of extremely bizarre logic.

I am talking about a completely justifiable logic that suggests that all human children should be put to death before reaching an age wherein their decisions could put them in jeopardy of a single moment in hell.

I mean, wouldn’t you gladly forego adulthood on earth in order to avoid any possibility of doing or thinking something that might send you into a context of unimaginable torture?

Ergo, if hell is real and truly exists, then logic insists that no human should live long enough on earth to risk it.
_______

Mike Strand
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:54 am
Location: USA

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Mike Strand » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:23 am

Dubious wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:15 pm
To think that Hitler and suchlike could go in either direction presupposes some operating moral in the universe. Why it would have one is beyond conception.

Whether Hitler or St. Francis of Assisi make no difference. They, we and all, without any recognition of Good or Evil, are fated to be neutralized within the default empire of existence called oblivion.

If the universe doesn't care about your existence one way or the other, it has no other place to put you. Without the inclusion of time or space even eternity lasts but a minuscule moment...the best possible scenario also being the most logical.
For those who don't accept the axioms of a loving, powerful, all-knowing God, or the axiom that each person has an eternal identity (soul, and life after biological death), then "universal salavation" can be taken as a metaphor for "eternal rest and peace with the grave". Everybody is still "saved', in the metaphorical sense, like falling into a deep, unconscious sleep forever (oblivion). After all, many of us hope for a deep, unconscious sleep every night ...

Mike Strand
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:54 am
Location: USA

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Mike Strand » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:30 am

Necromancer wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:18 pm
My opinion is, by information of the Archangels who I've connected with, that monsters like Adolf Hitler burn in Hell with excruciating pains for no less than a 1000 years, minimum!

There is no particular promise in becoming a monster, doing the absurdly immoral, waging a war against all that's human, all that's part of nature etc. Whether it's the mentality and lusting for torture so despicable there's no word... A thousand years in burning Hell, that's what I promise given my connections to the Archangels. I think of it as them losing their minds a 2nd time, totally mind-busted from their own sadistic and perverted mentalities!

A bit of cold water into the blood... 8) :mrgreen:
Maybe Hitler and other folks will spend a million years in hell. But according to the assumptions I posed that underpin Christianity, we will eventually learn our lesson and wake up and realize that accepting God is the way to happiness. The Christian notion of God means God has got to have great people skills, persuasive, etc., to bring us all into heaven for eternity. Hell can then be viewed as a dose of God's "tough love".

Of course, if you don't accept the assumptions, then maybe there is an eternal hell -- or better, oblivion.

gaffo
Posts: 2309
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by gaffo » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:49 am

Skip wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:37 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:12 am
Skip wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:29 am
As human evil goes, Hitler was just one of the low-points we hit every 200-year cycle. Only reason he sticks out as an example is that WWII (which Hitler didn't make all by himself)
um, actually he did start ww2.

on Sept 2nd 1939.
All by himself?
of course!

no Hitler, no invasion of Poland, no ww2.

the Japs would still be illegally invading China - but who knows how the the allies would act or even if Japan would attack Hawaii without German backing as an ally.

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Greta » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:12 am

Necromancer wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:18 pm
My opinion is, by information of the Archangels who I've connected with ...
Were they the archangels of Zoroastrians, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Restorationists or Muslims?

Mike Strand
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:54 am
Location: USA

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Mike Strand » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:17 pm

Dubious wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:15 pm
To think that Hitler and suchlike could go in either direction presupposes some operating moral in the universe. Why it would have one is beyond conception.

Whether Hitler or St. Francis of Assisi make no difference. They, we and all, without any recognition of Good or Evil, are fated to be neutralized within the default empire of existence called oblivion.

If the universe doesn't care about your existence one way or the other, it has no other place to put you. Without the inclusion of time or space even eternity lasts but a minuscule moment...the best possible scenario also being the most logical.
“Universal salvation” can then be seen as a metaphor: Eternal rest and peace in a grave—oblivion (an eternal deep and unconscious sleep).

Skip
Posts: 2551
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Skip » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:37 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:49 am
[All by himself?]
of course!

no Hitler, no invasion of Poland, no ww2.
I understood he had some other guys do that - like an army or something?
the Japs would still be illegally invading China
Cite three legal invasions, just we can get a bearing on what you mean.

Dubious
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Dubious » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:45 pm

Mike Strand wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:17 pm
Dubious wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:15 pm
To think that Hitler and suchlike could go in either direction presupposes some operating moral in the universe. Why it would have one is beyond conception.

Whether Hitler or St. Francis of Assisi make no difference. They, we and all, without any recognition of Good or Evil, are fated to be neutralized within the default empire of existence called oblivion.

If the universe doesn't care about your existence one way or the other, it has no other place to put you. Without the inclusion of time or space even eternity lasts but a minuscule moment...the best possible scenario also being the most logical.
“Universal salvation” can then be seen as a metaphor: Eternal rest and peace in a grave—oblivion (an eternal deep and unconscious sleep).
For those who insist on a consoling metaphor its universal sleep connotation will do just fine though I have no idea how that would resemble "universal salvation".

If you're rotting in a coffin or ashes in a urn "an eternal deep and unconscious sleep", seems thoroughly fantastical. You weren't in that state before you were born; you simply didn't exist. The question is, why would the after state be in any way different from the one that preceded your existence? If universal salvation has any meaning within this context it's that time & space are completely stripped from your being. The stage upon which the play is performed simply doesn't exist.

This is what all existence ultimately defaults to which we as conscious beings find impossible to imagine; we then replace the unimaginable with what we can imagine as provided by the living similes of sleep...a necessary biological function which in its state of rest seems a vague resemblance of death but has in fact nothing to do with it.

osgart
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:38 am

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by osgart » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:32 am

Interesting that someone could be redeemed by the purifying fires of hell. Hell is also the absence of goodness. Doing without Goodness is something to fear.
I believe in universal salvation as being an effective punishment.

I truly believe evil can be totally conquered in this way.

Im imagining a criminal just getting out of eternal hell, and walking through the desert on the way to finally meeting The Maker. Sounds plausible.

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Greta » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:01 am

Now that we are talking about Hell, I think poor old Hell has been sorely misrepresented by thoughtless theists!

Hell is almost always portrayed as subterranean and basically volcanic. It's easy to see why the ancients might look down a caldera and (before the damn thing blew their heads off) they probably figured that there must be some really bad stuff down there. It would have smelled evil too, of sulphurous rotten egg gas, nauseating, drying and acidic.

The Badlands. The Place of No Return. Mordor.

It's not quite fair, though, given that almost everything in nature will kill you. Hell, people have died from having a coconut fall on their head. One time the roof of a building in the Vatican complex fell in, killing four tourists, whose deaths were obviously more mythic and dramatic than most.

Storms, floods, cold, heat, sunstroke, earthquakes, droughts. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill. So why the bad rap for our beautiful hot subterranean minerals?

Geological life is necessary for biological life to emerge. Perhaps that's why? Embarrassment at the primitive relatives?

Children get insecure if you call them a baby, just as teenagers will reject being called children, and young adults baulk at being treated like teens. There is an inherent embarrassment at what we used to be. So humans have often been insecure about our obvious similarities with other apes, and thus "gorilla" and "ape" became terms of abuse, along with denial of evolution.

By the same token, maybe we life forms are even more embarrassed by our geological origins? Banishment to the hot realms of the geological is (aside from its lethality) the ultimate regression - mere rocks - not even bugs or worms!

This bad press is simply unfair. Rocks are beautiful things and they are much more rare and special in the universe than dark energy, dark matter, plasma and molecular clouds. Sure, they are not warm, friendly, willingly helpful or much entertaining, and sometimes they are lethal - and this does not endear them to many - but when you look past all that you realise that rocks and us are the same.

We life forms are basically animated hydrated rocks. So remember to show your great, great etc etc grandparents a little respect. Yes, it certainly could feel like Hell as a child to be stuck at my grandparents' place on a nice day, but the torture was never intentional :)

Hell is just the bad stuff in life plus accidental self inflicted mental wounds. The subterranean will soon kill you but it is not Hell, rather the engines of life. Engine rooms are famously not suitable for habitation but that does not make them a repository of evil.

// Mineral Rights Advocacy Statement

Mike Strand
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:54 am
Location: USA

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by Mike Strand » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:29 pm

Dubious wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:45 pm
This is what all existence ultimately defaults to which we as conscious beings find impossible to imagine; we then replace the unimaginable with what we can imagine as provided by the living similes of sleep...a necessary biological function which in its state of rest seems a vague resemblance of death but has in fact nothing to do with it.
Dubious, thanks for your thoughts. I guess optimists who don't believe in an afterlife might look for a euphemistic description of oblivion, and "eternal rest and peace" may appeal to them, as might the "deep unconscious sleep" analogy. Some folks feel "saved" by a good night's sleep. Many other folks, however, dread the thought of oblivion, and hence the hope for a soul as an eternal personal identity.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 7939
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Will Adolf Hitler Be Saved (End Up in Heaven)?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:49 pm

Hitler was an extraordinarily ordinary man who was a construct of his times and was given an inordinate amount of power. Give anyone that much power and they invariably go insane and start mass-murdering (rarely doing the actual killing themselves).
People need to look at themselves before pointing the finger at a convenient vessel for all the evils of humanity. He was only one person. One weak and rather pathetic little man.
Don't idolise individuals. Don't even admire them. Everyone can do something well (some people's abilities are just more showy than others).

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests